Are The elect saved before they believe the gospel ?

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savedbygrace57

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Greetings, I would like to pose a question. Are the elect saved , justified in Gods view before they believe ? Are the elect Justified from eternity ? I believe so, I believe the gospel is the announcement, the good news of our salvation..accomplished by christ..eph 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, :study:
 

Christina

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The Elect are simply the overcomers Jesus Christ's return. That is called the "fullness of time". In the fullness of time all of God's people will be gathered back to Jesus Christ. And we will all, both those saints in heaven now, and those who will live to see Jesus Christ's return at the seventh trumpet, will be drawn and gathered to Christ. Has God called you to Him? Ephesians 1:11 "In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:"With out God's intercession, Paul would not have been the leader in the Church that he was. When Paul changed from working against God to working for God; He remained the same strength of character; bold and willing to stand against any man, even kings. Paul's mission changed from killing Christians to making Christians. The "inheritance" that we obtain, is in the predestined plan of God. The inheritance is to the chosen, those who were overcomers, and God judged [justified] them then, and predestined them to His service in this age. The inheritance is being the Zadok in the Millennium, and that inheritance is our eternal life. What your full inheritance is will be according to God's predestined plan for you, and how you work to fulfill your part of that service. God is in control, and He controls His election [the elect]. It comforts me to know God is in control, even as the one world system comes into force, and Antichrist's rule will soon be total. God set the limits of his powers, and the God even shortened the time that Satan will have to rule. However, their rule has no power over God's elect, because every last one of God's chosen will see right through Satan's tricks and deceit. Ephesians 1:12 "That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ."To be God's elect does not mean your better than all others; it means you going to do God's work. God has a rich inheritance for all those who are faithful to His work. "We", used in this verse, and those prior, are those who are predestined in the first earth age. Our goal and glory should all be to glorify our Lord Jesus Christ, in all the work we do in our flesh age, for God.Ephesians 1:13 "In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,"The "ye" in this verse, are those who heard God's word and believed. They are not the predestined ones. When they believed, God sealed each of them with His Holy Spirit "of promise". That promise is the inheritance of eternal life. There is no difference between the inheritance of the predestined soul, and the soul that heard the Gospel of Christ, then believed and repented. However, there is a difference in the positions that the elect will hold in the Millennium temple. Ezekiel 44 describes the difference in the inheritance; it is in the area of ownership with respects to land, and the location to the throne of Jesus Christ. The "Zadok" simply will not be given land, because they do not need it. They will all be in the priestly services of our Lord Jesus Christ.Ephesians 1:14 "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.""The earnest" is a pledge from God to us. "Our inheritance" is the gift from God to you and I, the Christians, of the "new nature" [our new spirit], and this is a pledge also from God for future gifts in the same kind. It is a total commitment which can not be broken, thus making this inheritance different from any other pledge ordinarily given. The pledge in earnest is the same as the term "sealing". It is a legal term. God is creating His contract with us, the Christian, and God will fulfill that pledge, or covenant. The sealing of God's covenant is by giving to us His Spirit to dwell within us, and those other gifts He may also give to us. Our "earnest money", so to speak, is to fulfill our part of the agreement, and our part is to repent and believe in His Son, Jesus Christ; who is the actual one who paid the price to fulfill God's contract between Him and us. We reap the inheritance, while Jesus Christ paid the price, and gets all the glory for it.
 

Mighty Bear

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In order for us to be saved, we have to know the Lord's teachings,so, when we face trials, difficulties in life, we know how to copewith the situation."For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:30)"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."(Ephesians 6:12)
 

Christina

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I agree mighty BearThe elect are the overcomers they can not over come until they have heard the Wordthis is where free will comes in ALL ,elect or not have free will to choose and to sin and ask for forgivnesss We see this time and again in the aspostles, Moses, Paul, David they all had free will all sinned all repented. After learning of the Lord and his word. They were not given a free ticket just because God had work for them to do. We all have the chance to be part of the Elect
 

J.M.

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The op is begging the question...we are saved through faith but faith is a listed as a gift of the Holy Spirit...who decided who will hear the Gospel?Deuteronomy 10:14-15 God set his heart in love = chosePsalm 33:12 God chooses his own heritagePsalm 65:4 Chosen to dwell in his courtsPsalm 106:5 God's chosen onesHaggai 2:23 God chose ZerubbabelMatthew 11:27 Only the one the Son chooses know the FatherMatthew 22:14 Many are called, but few are chosenMatthew 24:22, 24, 31 days shortened for the elect the elect cannot be deceived gathering of the electLuke 18:7 God will vindicate his electRomans 8:28-30 Called according to God's purposeRomans 8:33 These (28-30) are God's electColossians 3:12 God's chosen ones1 Thessalonians 5:9 God has destined us to obtain salvationTitus 1:1-2 to further the faith of God's elect1 Peter 1:1,2 the exiles who were chosen and destined1 Peter 2:8,9 some stumble because they were destined to, but others are a chosen race who have been called.Revelation 17:14 Those with Christ are called and chosen and faithfulMark 13:20 God did the choosingEphesians 1:4 It was done before the foundation of the worldRevelation 13:8 God chose people, not just a planRevelation 17:8 God chose people, not just a planRomans 9:11-13 God's choice not based on anything creaturelyRomans 9:16 Not based on man's will or man's exertionRomans 10:20 God found by those who did NOT seek him1 Corinthians 1:27-29 God chose the foolish, weak, low and despisedspecifically so that no flesh could boast that ANY PART of their salvation was from them.2 Timothy 1:9 not by our works, but because of his own purposeEphesians 1:11-12 Works are the result not the cause of electionEphesians 2:10 Works are the result not the cause of electionJohn 15:16 Apostles did not choose Christ, but he chose.Acts 13:48 Those who were ordained believed.Acts 18:27 Those who believed did so through gracePhilippians 1:29 Granted to us to believePhilippians 2:12-13 God wills his pleasure in us1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 Because chosen, the word came in power of Holy Spirit and not just words of men.2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 God chose them from the beginning to be saved.James 2:5 God has chosen the poor to become rich to faithNot everyone is given the chance to accept or reject the Gospel offer so the point is based on a faulty premise. The conclusion drawn is invalid.Exodus 33:19 God's mercy based on his willDeuteronomy 7:6-7 (esp. 7) chosen-ness not based on something good in the chosen.Deuteronomy 7:6 God chose the nation of Israel for no good thing in the nation.Luke 6:13 Jesus chose disciples whom also he named apostlesJohn 17:16 A group of men belonged to the Father and he gave them to ChristActs 9:15 Paul was also a chosen vessel, as were the other apostlesExodus 33:19 God will be gracious to whom he pleasesDeuteronomy 4:37 chosen-ness based on being belovedJoshua 11:20 Decisions of the wicked are result of God's hardeningJob 23:14 God does that which he has appointedPsalm 65:4 The man is blest who is chosen to enter God's houseJeremiah 1:5 God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the wombMatthew 20:16 external call not the same as electionMatthew 25:44 The kingdom prepared for some people from foundation of the world2 Timothy 1:11 Paul appointed a preacher, an apostle, a teacher2 Timothy 2:10 Paul endures all things for the elect's sake2 Timothy 2:19 The Lord knows them that are hisHebrews 2:13 Behold, I and the children God gave me - applied to ChristJohn 17:2 Christ gives life to those who were given to him by the FatherEphesians 1:5 God predestinated us to adoption according the good pleasure of his will.
 

Christina

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(quote)Not everyone is given the chance to accept or reject the Gospel offer so the point is based on a faulty premise. The conclusion drawn is invalid.(Quote)This is a falicy of your religion its not biblical taking a list of scripture out of context proves nothing You follow men we will follow GodWe are saved by grace through faith
 

J.M.

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(quote)Not everyone is given the chance to accept or reject the Gospel offer so the point is based on a faulty premise. The conclusion drawn is invalid.(Quote)This is a falicy of your religion its not biblical taking a list of scripture out of context proves nothing You follow men we will follow GodWe are saved by grace through faith
Ok...
rolleyes.gif
that sure makes a lot of sense consider how much Scripture I quote. It's not me who quotes Bullinger in every thread....no is it...JMPS: Scripture quotations were compiled by Richard Bacon...not E. W. Bullinger.
 

Christina

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You can not judge between scripture and bulinger I seldom ever quote Bullinger Oh yeah we are all supposed to follow your religion of men and some guy named Razor
 

J.M.

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The op is begging the question...we are saved through faith but faith is a listed as a gift of the Holy Spirit...who decided who will hear the Gospel?Deuteronomy 10:14-15 God set his heart in love = chosePsalm 33:12 God chooses his own heritagePsalm 65:4 Chosen to dwell in his courtsPsalm 106:5 God's chosen onesHaggai 2:23 God chose ZerubbabelMatthew 11:27 Only the one the Son chooses know the FatherMatthew 22:14 Many are called, but few are chosenMatthew 24:22, 24, 31 days shortened for the elect the elect cannot be deceived gathering of the electLuke 18:7 God will vindicate his electRomans 8:28-30 Called according to God's purposeRomans 8:33 These (28-30) are God's electColossians 3:12 God's chosen ones1 Thessalonians 5:9 God has destined us to obtain salvationTitus 1:1-2 to further the faith of God's elect1 Peter 1:1,2 the exiles who were chosen and destined1 Peter 2:8,9 some stumble because they were destined to, but others are a chosen race who have been called.Revelation 17:14 Those with Christ are called and chosen and faithfulMark 13:20 God did the choosingEphesians 1:4 It was done before the foundation of the worldRevelation 13:8 God chose people, not just a planRevelation 17:8 God chose people, not just a planRomans 9:11-13 God's choice not based on anything creaturelyRomans 9:16 Not based on man's will or man's exertionRomans 10:20 God found by those who did NOT seek him1 Corinthians 1:27-29 God chose the foolish, weak, low and despisedspecifically so that no flesh could boast that ANY PART of their salvation was from them.2 Timothy 1:9 not by our works, but because of his own purposeEphesians 1:11-12 Works are the result not the cause of electionEphesians 2:10 Works are the result not the cause of electionJohn 15:16 Apostles did not choose Christ, but he chose.Acts 13:48 Those who were ordained believed.Acts 18:27 Those who believed did so through gracePhilippians 1:29 Granted to us to believePhilippians 2:12-13 God wills his pleasure in us1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 Because chosen, the word came in power of Holy Spirit and not just words of men.2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 God chose them from the beginning to be saved.James 2:5 God has chosen the poor to become rich to faithNot everyone is given the chance to accept or reject the Gospel offer so the point is based on a faulty premise. The conclusion drawn is invalid.Exodus 33:19 God's mercy based on his willDeuteronomy 7:6-7 (esp. 7) chosen-ness not based on something good in the chosen.Deuteronomy 7:6 God chose the nation of Israel for no good thing in the nation.Luke 6:13 Jesus chose disciples whom also he named apostlesJohn 17:16 A group of men belonged to the Father and he gave them to ChristActs 9:15 Paul was also a chosen vessel, as were the other apostlesExodus 33:19 God will be gracious to whom he pleasesDeuteronomy 4:37 chosen-ness based on being belovedJoshua 11:20 Decisions of the wicked are result of God's hardeningJob 23:14 God does that which he has appointedPsalm 65:4 The man is blest who is chosen to enter God's houseJeremiah 1:5 God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the wombMatthew 20:16 external call not the same as electionMatthew 25:44 The kingdom prepared for some people from foundation of the world2 Timothy 1:11 Paul appointed a preacher, an apostle, a teacher2 Timothy 2:10 Paul endures all things for the elect's sake2 Timothy 2:19 The Lord knows them that are hisHebrews 2:13 Behold, I and the children God gave me - applied to ChristJohn 17:2 Christ gives life to those who were given to him by the FatherEphesians 1:5 God predestinated us to adoption according the good pleasure of his will.
Yes! We agree...judge the doctrine by the Scriptures!
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HammerStone

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J.M.

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Please, let's not get hypocritical in quoting men...Your blog:http://godsfreegrace.blogspot.com/Just a couple posts I dug up:http://www.christianityboard.com/e-w-bulli...300.html?t=4300--------
Ahhhh, you believe making an FYI post amounts to hypocrisy. Fine. As for my blog it's a collection of devotionals. Oh the hypocrisy! I've referred to scripture repeating during those discussions and that is a fact.
I John 5:4There's your answer my dear savedbygrace57.
Thanks for reminding about 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.The structure of above verse doesn't allow you to play fast and lose. Who ever believes is born of God, they are born of God first, this is found in the Greek.:angel9:jm
 

Christina

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Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.Found in his word not said by John Calvin
 

Jon-Marc

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Greetings, I would like to pose a question. Are the elect saved , justified in Gods view before they believe ? Are the elect Justified from eternity ? I believe so.
So you're saying that those who will be saved already are before they call on the Lord for forgiveness and salvation? Then why did God say, "Call upon the name of the Lord" if we were already saved?I was an unbeliever, cared nothing about the Lord, didn't trust in Him, didn't live for Him, cursed His name, but I was already saved? I don't think so. Had I died in that condition, I would have been eternally lost and gone to hell. When I called on the Lord on May 18, 1963 was the time I was saved and not until then. Until then I was as lost as the proverbial goose. Yes, God knew I would do that, but He didn't save me until I asked Him to do so. The "elect" are those that God knows will accept Him. He doesn't pick and choose who he will or will not save. That would be very unjust for a God who claims to be loving and just--which He is.
 

PastorChris

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Greetings, I would like to pose a question. Are the elect saved , justified in Gods view before they believe ? Are the elect Justified from eternity ? I believe so, I believe the gospel is the announcement, the good news of our salvation..accomplished by christ..eph 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, :study:
All the prophets who spoke the word of God are in the kingdom of God (Lk13:28-30). The gospel is the word of the Lord (1Pe1:25).
 

Mighty Bear

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I agree mighty BearThe elect are the overcomers they can not over come until they have heard the Wordthis is where free will comes in ALL ,elect or not have free will to choose and to sin and ask for forgivnesss We see this time and again in the aspostles, Moses, Paul, David they all had free will all sinned all repented. After learning of the Lord and his word. They were not given a free ticket just because God had work for them to do. We all have the chance to be part of the Elect
hi kriss,"As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth."(Daniel 2:34-35)"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever," (Daniel 2:44)"And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh."(Jude 1:22-23)
 

preciousmessage

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Greetings, I would like to pose a question. Are the elect saved , justified in Gods view before they believe ? Are the elect Justified from eternity ? I believe so, I believe the gospel is the announcement, the good news of our salvation..accomplished by christ..eph 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, :study:
Hi,The Bible teaches that everyone has already been legally justified, prior to having any faith. In other words there are two phases of justification. The first phase is applicable to everyone; the second is applicable only to the believer. This is the clear teaching of Scripture:“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:23-24).“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life” (Rom. 5:18).Two Quotes:“‘By the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.’” There is no exception here. As the condemnation came upon all, so the justification comes upon all. Christ has tasted death for every man. He has given himself for all. Nay, He has given himself to every man. The free gift has come upon all. The fact that it is a free gift is evidence that there is no exception. If it came upon only those who have some special qualification [i.e., faith], then it would not be a free gift.” “The will of God is our sanctification. 1 Thess. 4:3. He wills that all men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim. 2:4 And He ‘accomplishes all things according to the counsel of His will.’ Eph. 1:11. ‘Do you mean to teach universal salvation?’ someone may ask. We mean to teach just what the Word of God teaches—that ‘the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men.’ Titus 2:11, RV. God has wrought out salvation for every man, and has given it to him; but the majority spurn it and throw it away. The judgment will reveal the fact that full salvation was given to every man and that the lost have deliberately thrown away their birthright possession.” End QuotesBut here is where some find a “stumbling stone” and a “rock of offense.” Some seem to dislike the idea that the unbelieving sinner has the same legal standing before God as the believer. Can we present this in a more acceptable way? The Lord has given us a framework, in which to preach this essential element of the gospel, which does help people to understand. We shall refer to this as the three phases of the plan of salvation.The Bible speaks of salvation in three tenses, the past, present, and future. Let’s examine a few examples.Future Tense“Ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved” (Matt. 10:22).“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16).“I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture” (John 10:9)“We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, …” (Acts 15:11).Many more texts refer to this phase of the plan of salvation. Most of the verses in the Bible that use the word “saved” are in the future tense. Perhaps because of this, Seventh-day Adventists have generally failed to acknowledge the other two phases.Present Tense “The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (1 Cor. 1:18, NKJV).“For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing” (2 Cor. 2:15, NKJV).The translation presented in these verses may be somewhat surprising to those accustomed to the King James Version, which does not make it clear that the term “save” is in the present continuous tense. However, a check of the Greek reveals that the New King James Version is accurate. There are other verses that speak of the second phase of salvation without using the word “save.” For example:“Now unto Him that is able to keep [save] you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy” (Jude 24).“The Lord knoweth how to deliver [save] the godly out of temptations …” (2 Peter 2:9).Past TenseNow we need to examine examples of the tense that have proven to be the most controversial. The Bible clearly teaches salvation in the past tense as an already accomplished reality. For example:“Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim. 1:8-10, NKJV).“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior” (Titus 3:5-6, NKJV).Both passages present very clearly that salvation is an already accomplished reality. The Greek tense is aorist. It refers to an event that happened once for all at a specific point in time in the past. These passages apparently apply to the believer as well as the unbeliever. For example, 2 Timothy says God “saved us,” then it says He “called us.” The salvation was accomplished for all and all are therefore “called.” “Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Rev. 22:17). The reason all are called to take “freely” is because all have already been saved. Yet some may not be ready to acknowledge that these verses apply to everyone. Some will insist on applying these texts only to the believer. Fortunately, there is yet one more reference. Ephesians chapter two provides the clearest statement of all:“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others” (Eph. 2:1-3, NKJV).Here Paul describes the miserable plight of all humanity. We were all “dead in trespasses and sins.” Then he announces the good news of what God did for us, entirely apart from our awareness, or participation, permission, request, or faith. That’s right. Faith is not mentioned in the verse.“But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (Eph. 2:4, 5, NKJV).When we realize what Paul was actually saying, it is astonishing to our naturally legalistic, old covenant mind set, which feels we must initiate the process of salvation. The context is very clear. Paul is not speaking of the believer. He also makes it clear that God did not do this because of our faith. He did it only “because of His great love.” Paul is speaking of those who are “dead in trespasses,” and he says they were “made … alive”! He sums it up: “by grace you have been saved.” It was not through our faith, it was “by grace.” Clearly, the Bible teaches salvation in the past tense. It is not speaking only of the believer; it is speaking of all men, every human being.It is true that Ephesians speaks of salvation by faith, later in chapter two (see verse 8). A close examination of the text reveals that the faith spoken of is primarily a reference to the faith of Jesus, and in a secondary sense to our faith. Believing the good news in verses 1-7 initiates the second phase of salvation, which is through faith. But we dare not get the cart before the horse and attempt to enjoy the fruit of salvation in the second phase, or the hope of the gospel in the third phase, apart from believing the “Good News” of the gospel, which concerns what God has already done for everyone in the first phase. That would be like building our houses on sand.Salvation in Three PhasesIf this concept of salvation in three phases is correct, it would be reasonable that we should expect to find all three phases clearly presented in the word of God. That is exactly what we find in 2 Cor. 1:10, but let’s begin at verse 9:“We had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who delivered [saved] us from so great a death, and doth deliver [save]: in whom we trust that He will yet deliver [save] us.”All three phases of salvation, past, present, and future, are clearly articulated in one verse of scripture, although the word “save” is not used in the passage. Paul says that God saved us from “so great a death,” and that “great death” is the second death. Then we’re told He does save, in the present continuous tense. And finally, we trust that when He comes again He will yet save us. Here we have a hint as to why the process of salvation has three phases. Sin involves a threefold problem, and each problem begins with the letter “P”: The Penalty, the Power, and the Presence.All men have been saved from the penalty of their sin. The penalty is death. Jesus tasted “death for every man” (Heb. 2:9). That’s how He “delivered us from so great a death.” That is salvation in the past tense. Were it not for this phase of salvation, which is effective for everyone, not one of us would be alive. Next, in the second phase of salvation, those who believe the good news about salvation in the past, are being saved from the power of sin, that is temptation and slavery to sin, in the present tense. Finally, those who endure (i.e., keep the faith, Rev. 14:12), shall be saved, from the presence of sin, at the second coming of Christ. So God has saved us. He does save us. And we trust that some day He will save us. These are three phases of one salvation, a threefold solution to a threefold problem. Christ is a “complete Saviour.” We cannot begin to fully appreciate the grand dimensions of the plan of salvation until we accept the biblical view of the first phase, which is the foundation for the other two. “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). It is the law of God that demands the death of the sinner (see 1 Cor. 15:56). Therefore, when Jesus “tasted death for every man” (Heb. 2:9), He met the just demands of the law for everyone. He paid every man’s debt to the law of God. Thus, Christ’s death accomplished the legal justification of all men. He thereby “abolished death” for “all men” (see 2 Tim. 1:10 and Heb. 2:9). This is why no one has ever truly died, except Christ.Embracing the Full Plan of SalvationMany refuse to embrace this truth, in part because of a failure to recognize the three phases of the plan of salvation. Those who understand only the third phase, which is final and irrevocable, assume that any claim of salvation having been accomplished for anyone in the past necessarily demands that the individual will ultimately be in heaven. Therefore the teaching of salvation in the past tense, especially for all men, is frequently rejected as universalism.In spite of this prevailing misconception, it is clear that the Bible states that Jesus has saved the whole world. This is not the heresy of universalism, because the Bible also makes it clear that we can reject the gift of salvation which Christ has accomplished and ultimately be lost. Jude verse 5 is a poignant statement of this truth: “I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.”Israel’s experience is an illustration or type of salvation. All of Israel was “saved” from Egypt, which represents the bondage of sin. This salvation was accomplished only through the cross represented by the Passover lamb. Through the death of the lamb, all the candidates for deliverance, represented by Israel, were “saved.” Israel in this type of salvation represents the whole world helplessly enslaved and in need of salvation. Christ, through His death, saved us all from the penalty of our sin. Yet after the mighty deliverance from Egypt, those who did not believe, failed to appreciate the redeeming sacrifice and were destroyed in the wilderness. Thus they never reached the promised land, which represents heaven.In the antitype, which is the actual plan of redemption, Jesus has done something for the whole world. He redeemed Adam’s disgraceful fall, and saved the world. This is the good news of the gospel for all men. And it is the power of God unto salvation [the second phase] for all that believe (see Rom. 1:16). None will be lost because of their sins. “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures” (1 Cor. 15:3). Those who are finally ultimately lost, will be lost, because they refused to believe the gospel, which teaches they have been saved (see Mark 16:16).Christ: A Complete SaviourTherefore we can conclude that Jesus is a complete Saviour. He is a complete Saviour because He has saved the whole world. He is also a complete Saviour because He is our Saviour in the past, the present, and the future. He came into this world, for what purpose? “To seek and save that which was lost” (Luke 19:10). He ascended back to heaven, for what purpose? “To be a Prince and a Saviour” (Acts 5:31). He is coming again, for what purpose? The waiting saints will understand and declare, “Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us” (Isa. 25:9). He came to earth to save. He went back to heaven to save. He is coming again to save. Christ is a complete Saviour.Jake
 

savedbygrace57

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Nov 15, 2007
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(preciousmessage;23099)
Hi,The Bible teaches that everyone has already been legally justified, prior to having any faith. In other words there are two phases of justification. The first phase is applicable to everyone; the second is applicable only to the believer. This is the clear teaching of Scripture:“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:23-24).“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life” (Rom. 5:18).Two Quotes:“‘By the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.’” There is no exception here. As the condemnation came upon all, so the justification comes upon all. Christ has tasted death for every man. He has given himself for all. Nay, He has given himself to every man. The free gift has come upon all. The fact that it is a free gift is evidence that there is no exception. If it came upon only those who have some special qualification [i.e., faith], then it would not be a free gift.” “The will of God is our sanctification. 1 Thess. 4:3. He wills that all men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim. 2:4 And He ‘accomplishes all things according to the counsel of His will.’ Eph. 1:11. ‘Do you mean to teach universal salvation?’ someone may ask. We mean to teach just what the Word of God teaches—that ‘the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men.’ Titus 2:11, RV. God has wrought out salvation for every man, and has given it to him; but the majority spurn it and throw it away. The judgment will reveal the fact that full salvation was given to every man and that the lost have deliberately thrown away their birthright possession.” End QuotesBut here is where some find a “stumbling stone” and a “rock of offense.” Some seem to dislike the idea that the unbelieving sinner has the same legal standing before God as the believer. Can we present this in a more acceptable way? The Lord has given us a framework, in which to preach this essential element of the gospel, which does help people to understand. We shall refer to this as the three phases of the plan of salvation.The Bible speaks of salvation in three tenses, the past, present, and future. Let’s examine a few examples.Future Tense“Ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved” (Matt. 10:22).“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16).“I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture” (John 10:9)“We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, …” (Acts 15:11).Many more texts refer to this phase of the plan of salvation. Most of the verses in the Bible that use the word “saved” are in the future tense. Perhaps because of this, Seventh-day Adventists have generally failed to acknowledge the other two phases.Present Tense “The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (1 Cor. 1:18, NKJV).“For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing” (2 Cor. 2:15, NKJV).The translation presented in these verses may be somewhat surprising to those accustomed to the King James Version, which does not make it clear that the term “save” is in the present continuous tense. However, a check of the Greek reveals that the New King James Version is accurate. There are other verses that speak of the second phase of salvation without using the word “save.” For example:“Now unto Him that is able to keep [save] you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy” (Jude 24).“The Lord knoweth how to deliver [save] the godly out of temptations …” (2 Peter 2:9).Past TenseNow we need to examine examples of the tense that have proven to be the most controversial. The Bible clearly teaches salvation in the past tense as an already accomplished reality. For example:“Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim. 1:8-10, NKJV).“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior” (Titus 3:5-6, NKJV).Both passages present very clearly that salvation is an already accomplished reality. The Greek tense is aorist. It refers to an event that happened once for all at a specific point in time in the past. These passages apparently apply to the believer as well as the unbeliever. For example, 2 Timothy says God “saved us,” then it says He “called us.” The salvation was accomplished for all and all are therefore “called.” “Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Rev. 22:17). The reason all are called to take “freely” is because all have already been saved. Yet some may not be ready to acknowledge that these verses apply to everyone. Some will insist on applying these texts only to the believer. Fortunately, there is yet one more reference. Ephesians chapter two provides the clearest statement of all:“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others” (Eph. 2:1-3, NKJV).Here Paul describes the miserable plight of all humanity. We were all “dead in trespasses and sins.” Then he announces the good news of what God did for us, entirely apart from our awareness, or participation, permission, request, or faith. That’s right. Faith is not mentioned in the verse.“But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (Eph. 2:4, 5, NKJV).When we realize what Paul was actually saying, it is astonishing to our naturally legalistic, old covenant mind set, which feels we must initiate the process of salvation. The context is very clear. Paul is not speaking of the believer. He also makes it clear that God did not do this because of our faith. He did it only “because of His great love.” Paul is speaking of those who are “dead in trespasses,” and he says they were “made … alive”! He sums it up: “by grace you have been saved.” It was not through our faith, it was “by grace.” Clearly, the Bible teaches salvation in the past tense. It is not speaking only of the believer; it is speaking of all men, every human being.It is true that Ephesians speaks of salvation by faith, later in chapter two (see verse 8). A close examination of the text reveals that the faith spoken of is primarily a reference to the faith of Jesus, and in a secondary sense to our faith. Believing the good news in verses 1-7 initiates the second phase of salvation, which is through faith. But we dare not get the cart before the horse and attempt to enjoy the fruit of salvation in the second phase, or the hope of the gospel in the third phase, apart from believing the “Good News” of the gospel, which concerns what God has already done for everyone in the first phase. That would be like building our houses on sand.Salvation in Three PhasesIf this concept of salvation in three phases is correct, it would be reasonable that we should expect to find all three phases clearly presented in the word of God. That is exactly what we find in 2 Cor. 1:10, but let’s begin at verse 9:“We had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who delivered [saved] us from so great a death, and doth deliver [save]: in whom we trust that He will yet deliver [save] us.”All three phases of salvation, past, present, and future, are clearly articulated in one verse of scripture, although the word “save” is not used in the passage. Paul says that God saved us from “so great a death,” and that “great death” is the second death. Then we’re told He does save, in the present continuous tense. And finally, we trust that when He comes again He will yet save us. Here we have a hint as to why the process of salvation has three phases. Sin involves a threefold problem, and each problem begins with the letter “P”: The Penalty, the Power, and the Presence.All men have been saved from the penalty of their sin. The penalty is death. Jesus tasted “death for every man” (Heb. 2:9). That’s how He “delivered us from so great a death.” That is salvation in the past tense. Were it not for this phase of salvation, which is effective for everyone, not one of us would be alive. Next, in the second phase of salvation, those who believe the good news about salvation in the past, are being saved from the power of sin, that is temptation and slavery to sin, in the present tense. Finally, those who endure (i.e., keep the faith, Rev. 14:12), shall be saved, from the presence of sin, at the second coming of Christ. So God has saved us. He does save us. And we trust that some day He will save us. These are three phases of one salvation, a threefold solution to a threefold problem. Christ is a “complete Saviour.” We cannot begin to fully appreciate the grand dimensions of the plan of salvation until we accept the biblical view of the first phase, which is the foundation for the other two. “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). It is the law of God that demands the death of the sinner (see 1 Cor. 15:56). Therefore, when Jesus “tasted death for every man” (Heb. 2:9), He met the just demands of the law for everyone. He paid every man’s debt to the law of God. Thus, Christ’s death accomplished the legal justification of all men. He thereby “abolished death” for “all men” (see 2 Tim. 1:10 and Heb. 2:9). This is why no one has ever truly died, except Christ.Embracing the Full Plan of SalvationMany refuse to embrace this truth, in part because of a failure to recognize the three phases of the plan of salvation. Those who understand only the third phase, which is final and irrevocable, assume that any claim of salvation having been accomplished for anyone in the past necessarily demands that the individual will ultimately be in heaven. Therefore the teaching of salvation in the past tense, especially for all men, is frequently rejected as universalism.In spite of this prevailing misconception, it is clear that the Bible states that Jesus has saved the whole world. This is not the heresy of universalism, because the Bible also makes it clear that we can reject the gift of salvation which Christ has accomplished and ultimately be lost. Jude verse 5 is a poignant statement of this truth: “I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.”Israel’s experience is an illustration or type of salvation. All of Israel was “saved” from Egypt, which represents the bondage of sin. This salvation was accomplished only through the cross represented by the Passover lamb. Through the death of the lamb, all the candidates for deliverance, represented by Israel, were “saved.” Israel in this type of salvation represents the whole world helplessly enslaved and in need of salvation. Christ, through His death, saved us all from the penalty of our sin. Yet after the mighty deliverance from Egypt, those who did not believe, failed to appreciate the redeeming sacrifice and were destroyed in the wilderness. Thus they never reached the promised land, which represents heaven.In the antitype, which is the actual plan of redemption, Jesus has done something for the whole world. He redeemed Adam’s disgraceful fall, and saved the world. This is the good news of the gospel for all men. And it is the power of God unto salvation [the second phase] for all that believe (see Rom. 1:16). None will be lost because of their sins. “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures” (1 Cor. 15:3). Those who are finally ultimately lost, will be lost, because they refused to believe the gospel, which teaches they have been saved (see Mark 16:16).Christ: A Complete SaviourTherefore we can conclude that Jesus is a complete Saviour. He is a complete Saviour because He has saved the whole world. He is also a complete Saviour because He is our Saviour in the past, the present, and the future. He came into this world, for what purpose? “To seek and save that which was lost” (Luke 19:10). He ascended back to heaven, for what purpose? “To be a Prince and a Saviour” (Acts 5:31). He is coming again, for what purpose? The waiting saints will understand and declare, “Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us” (Isa. 25:9). He came to earth to save. He went back to heaven to save. He is coming again to save. Christ is a complete Saviour.Jake
Only all the elect have been justified, only the elect fell in adam , the seed of the serpent stood in satan and they are his seed..
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Good post preciousmessage Much of this confusion is created by this new Extreme Calvinists viewpoint making a strong reasurgence in some churchs. they have twisted scripture to say only the Elect are saved this is not true doctrine.The Elect are the ones that Overcame in the first earth age. So are among those chosen to perform certain duties of which God chooses for example Saul/Paul,Jonah,Moses none of these people if left to their own would have performed what God wanted done. They needed some convincing from GodIn our present time there are Elect that will have certain things to accomplish in the End times however anyone who overcomes until the end will be adopted into/become part of the Elect All overcomers are of the Elect. All have free will to choose to be an overcomer.The big problem today is most churches do not teach Gods children what they need to overcome. Instead they teach a fly away doctrine of Rapture theroy saying, OH you do not need to understand the End times you will be gone lifted off into the clouds somewhere.This theroy is the biggest enemy of the Christian a true lie of Satan No one is going anywhere until the 7th trump when The true Christ Arrives.but the fake one the Antichrist comes at the 6th trump claiming to be Christ. Knowing this and knowing who antichrist is,when he will come, and what he will be doingso you can be of the Elect i.e. an overcomer is the key.
 

preciousmessage

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Oct 28, 2007
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(kriss;23305)
Good post preciousmessage Much of this confusion is created by this new Extreme Calvinists viewpoint making a strong reasurgence in some churchs. they have twisted scripture to say only the Elect are saved this is not true doctrine.The Elect are the ones that Overcame in the first earth age. So are among those chosen to perform certain duties of which God chooses for example Saul/Paul,Jonah,Moses none of these people if left to their own would have performed what God wanted done. They needed some convincing from GodIn our present time there are Elect that will have certain things to accomplish in the End times however anyone who overcomes until the end will be adopted into/become part of the Elect All overcomers are of the Elect. All have free will to choose to be an overcomer.The big problem today is most churches do not teach Gods children what they need to overcome. Instead they teach a fly away doctrine of Rapture theroy saying, OH you do not need to understand the End times you will be gone lifted off into the clouds somewhere.This theroy is the biggest enemy of the Christian a true lie of Satan No one is going anywhere until the 7th trump when The true Christ Arrives.but the fake one the Antichrist comes at the 6th trump claiming to be Christ. Knowing this and knowing who antichrist is,when he will come, and what he will be doingso you can be of the Elect i.e. an overcomer is the key.
We are in agreement Kriss, the overcomers will be the elect and the rapture theory is just that, a theory not backed up by the word of God.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Yes preciousmessageI might add that some of the Elect like Paul,Moses ect. and the ones today that will be put on trial befor Antichrist (Mark 13) are what are those refered to as predestined these are some of the Elect that are choosen to perform certain duties (jobs for God). They are no different then the rest of the Elect and do not know who they are until God calls upon them. Just like Saul/Paul or Jonah, Moses didnt know they were going to be called upon before they were called,The Calvinist would have you believe these are all the Elect. and all are predestined and already choosen and know one else matters, NOT TRUE All overcomers are of the Elect and anyone can be an overcomer. Just not all overcomers are pre-choosen (predestined)to do a certain task.
 
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