That certain were chosen for 'certain' things is unmistakable in the Scriptures. Below is just a couple of Scriptures that definitely show that 'certain' were chosen (predestined) for certain things (fates). Jude 1:4-5 4 For there are certain men [not all men] crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this ['once knew this?' They (not all) knew it from before (before this eath age)], how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. (KJV) Rev 17:14 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. [not everybody, He is speaking of those WITH Him] (KJV) John 15:16 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. [not everybody, He is speaking of the Disciples (and by extension, the Elect of the latter times)] (KJV) I must hasten to add that since Christ's work on the cross, all can be adopted into eternal life through faith in Christ Jesus. However, 'certain' have been chosen, pre-selected by God, not to be more loved of God but to do a certain task in the end times in fulfillment of Scripture. These are called the Elect of God. So then, that leads to natural question: Who are the Elect? Well, every single denominational group claims to be the Elect. The Catholics call themselves the one true Church, the Rapturists call themselves the saved 'saints,' the Mormons believe themselves to be the chosen of God, many cults believe themselves to be a special group of God's Elect. So why should I add to this confusion with an answer? other to say that God's Elect are those who know the truth about the identity of the antichrist in the final times (our generation). But the main point is that while God's plan and prophecies MUST be fulfilled as prophesied, for "scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35), and the whole world shall worship the antichrist as it is written: Rev 13:8 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (KJV) Only God's Elect (by His grace and purpose) shall resist the antichrist. That is not to say that all who UNWITTINGLY worship the wrong Christ are damned, for there is a certain degree of innocence in ignorance. And we are not fated on an individual level to be deceived, but many do not study to their own undoing. Nobody is born damned, they become that way by their own free will actions. Yes, Christ's blood is able to save all, but not all shall be saved. There are qualifiers with all of God's promises: John 3:15-18 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (KJV)
Are The elect saved before they believe the gospel ?
- Thread starter savedbygrace57
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
(savedbygrace57;22876)
Greetings, I would like to pose a question. Are the elect saved , justified in Gods view before they believe ? Are the elect Justified from eternity ? I believe so, I believe the gospel is the announcement, the good news of our salvation..accomplished by christ..eph 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, :study:
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
Greetings, I would like to pose a question. Are the elect saved , justified in Gods view before they believe ? Are the elect Justified from eternity ? I believe so, I believe the gospel is the announcement, the good news of our salvation..accomplished by christ..eph 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, :study:
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
BroDave
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
All were not called
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
All were not called
Where do you read that?Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.We are not saved except through Jesus Christ And All those who overcome Antichrist and make it to the End are of the Elect if your name not be found written into the Book you are ashes
(n2thelight;23349)
BroDaveAll were not called
It is amazing how many limit the love and mercy of God. “Oh, how I want to be saved but it’s impossible because I have never been called.” But God’s love is unconditional, our love is conditional. “Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden God, and I will give you rest.” Matt. 11:28. This includes every soul that hungers. “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.” Isa. 55:1. “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Rev. 22:17. Not only is every one who hears invited to come, but he is also authorized to invite everybody else whom he sees. There is no partiality with God.Do we want to limit the grace of God? “The grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men.” Titus 2:11, R.V. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13. How do you know you're called by the objective gospel, the faith of Jesus, not your own "subjective" experience? Jake
BroDaveAll were not called
It is amazing how many limit the love and mercy of God. “Oh, how I want to be saved but it’s impossible because I have never been called.” But God’s love is unconditional, our love is conditional. “Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden God, and I will give you rest.” Matt. 11:28. This includes every soul that hungers. “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.” Isa. 55:1. “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Rev. 22:17. Not only is every one who hears invited to come, but he is also authorized to invite everybody else whom he sees. There is no partiality with God.Do we want to limit the grace of God? “The grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men.” Titus 2:11, R.V. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13. How do you know you're called by the objective gospel, the faith of Jesus, not your own "subjective" experience? Jake
preciousmessage
Do we want to limit the grace of God? “The grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men.” Titus 2:11, R.V. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13.
I think you are missing my point,all can receive salvation,but we are not talking about all men,we are talking about the elect,those that were chosen before the foundation of the world.
Do we want to limit the grace of God? “The grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men.” Titus 2:11, R.V. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13.
I think you are missing my point,all can receive salvation,but we are not talking about all men,we are talking about the elect,those that were chosen before the foundation of the world.
(preciousmessage;23415)
It is amazing how many limit the love and mercy of God. “Oh, how I want to be saved but it’s impossible because I have never been called.” But God’s love is unconditional, our love is conditional. “Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden God, and I will give you rest.” Matt. 11:28. This includes every soul that hungers. “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.” Isa. 55:1. “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Rev. 22:17. Not only is every one who hears invited to come, but he is also authorized to invite everybody else whom he sees. There is no partiality with God.Do we want to limit the grace of God? “The grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men.” Titus 2:11, R.V. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13. How do you know you're called by the objective gospel, the faith of Jesus, not your own "subjective" experience? Jake
If you really read those invitations clearly , God limits them who He calls..He is only calling those who hunger, who thirst, and ect..the only ones that fit these qualifications are the born again ones , for they have been blessed.matt 54Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
It is amazing how many limit the love and mercy of God. “Oh, how I want to be saved but it’s impossible because I have never been called.” But God’s love is unconditional, our love is conditional. “Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden God, and I will give you rest.” Matt. 11:28. This includes every soul that hungers. “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.” Isa. 55:1. “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Rev. 22:17. Not only is every one who hears invited to come, but he is also authorized to invite everybody else whom he sees. There is no partiality with God.Do we want to limit the grace of God? “The grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men.” Titus 2:11, R.V. “Choose you this day and who eat will serve.” Joshua 24:13. How do you know you're called by the objective gospel, the faith of Jesus, not your own "subjective" experience? Jake
If you really read those invitations clearly , God limits them who He calls..He is only calling those who hunger, who thirst, and ect..the only ones that fit these qualifications are the born again ones , for they have been blessed.matt 54Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
(n2thelight;23508)
preciousmessageI think you are missing my point,all can receive salvation,but we are not talking about all men,we are talking about the elect,those that were chosen before the foundation of the world.
The whole human race was chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world, the elect are those who will be with God for eternity. God has foreknowledge of those who will be the elect, yet He as predestined all to be saved since time began. 2 Timothy 1:8-10. All have already received salvation, sadly many will throw away their birthright possession. John 3:17, 18; 12:47, 48. Romans 3:23, 24; 5:12-18.
preciousmessageI think you are missing my point,all can receive salvation,but we are not talking about all men,we are talking about the elect,those that were chosen before the foundation of the world.
The whole human race was chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world, the elect are those who will be with God for eternity. God has foreknowledge of those who will be the elect, yet He as predestined all to be saved since time began. 2 Timothy 1:8-10. All have already received salvation, sadly many will throw away their birthright possession. John 3:17, 18; 12:47, 48. Romans 3:23, 24; 5:12-18.
(savedbygrace57;23536)
If you really read those invitations clearly , God limits them who He calls..He is only calling those who hunger, who thirst, and ect..the only ones that fit these qualifications are the born again ones , for they have been blessed.matt 54Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Many claim to be born again and thirst and hunger. That would be your own subjective experience. The question is, how do you know from the objective gospel that Christ has called you without your own personal experience. You see, the Bible gives us that evidence so we don't have to guess with our own "subjective feelings." If you read the threads you'll have more than enough evidence. Thanks,Jake
If you really read those invitations clearly , God limits them who He calls..He is only calling those who hunger, who thirst, and ect..the only ones that fit these qualifications are the born again ones , for they have been blessed.matt 54Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Many claim to be born again and thirst and hunger. That would be your own subjective experience. The question is, how do you know from the objective gospel that Christ has called you without your own personal experience. You see, the Bible gives us that evidence so we don't have to guess with our own "subjective feelings." If you read the threads you'll have more than enough evidence. Thanks,Jake
Many claim to be born again and thirst and hunger. That would be your own subjective experience
We are not talking about what many claim to, but what scripture says and what an omniscience God sees man looketh on the outward but God sees the heart..
The question is, how do you know from the objective gospel that Christ has called you without your own personal experience.
This is not about me as an individual but God calling His elect into a knowledge of their salvation..
You see, the Bible gives us that evidence so we don't have to guess with our own "subjective feelings." If you read the threads you'll have more than enough evidence. Thanks,
I dont think you are thinking in a coherant manner sorry..When the elect person Hears the good news of their salvation , then they recieve peace in their consiousness of it..rom 5:Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Until born again and being granted faith the elect are ignorant to their salvation..
We are not talking about what many claim to, but what scripture says and what an omniscience God sees man looketh on the outward but God sees the heart..
The question is, how do you know from the objective gospel that Christ has called you without your own personal experience.
This is not about me as an individual but God calling His elect into a knowledge of their salvation..
You see, the Bible gives us that evidence so we don't have to guess with our own "subjective feelings." If you read the threads you'll have more than enough evidence. Thanks,
I dont think you are thinking in a coherant manner sorry..When the elect person Hears the good news of their salvation , then they recieve peace in their consiousness of it..rom 5:Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Until born again and being granted faith the elect are ignorant to their salvation..
Jon-Marc
New Member
(BroDave;23342)
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
Then calling on the lord is just a formality that really isn't necessary? If I was saved when I was living like the devil and cursing God's name (and cursed the boy who asked me "Do you believe in God?" when I was 15, then I didn't need to repent as he commands us to do. Nor did I need to believe anything written in the Bible (and I didn't) since my name was already written in the Lamb's book of life. If one's name is pre-written in the Book prior to them calling on the Lord, then it is only because He KNOWS who will call upon Him. It is NOT because we are already saved. Prior to May 18, 1963 when I called upon the Lord to forgive and save me, I was as lost as the proverbial goose and would have gone to hell had I died before that time. I thank God for His mercy in sparing me long enough to learn about Him and call upon His name.
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
Then calling on the lord is just a formality that really isn't necessary? If I was saved when I was living like the devil and cursing God's name (and cursed the boy who asked me "Do you believe in God?" when I was 15, then I didn't need to repent as he commands us to do. Nor did I need to believe anything written in the Bible (and I didn't) since my name was already written in the Lamb's book of life. If one's name is pre-written in the Book prior to them calling on the Lord, then it is only because He KNOWS who will call upon Him. It is NOT because we are already saved. Prior to May 18, 1963 when I called upon the Lord to forgive and save me, I was as lost as the proverbial goose and would have gone to hell had I died before that time. I thank God for His mercy in sparing me long enough to learn about Him and call upon His name.
(savedbygrace57;23739)
We are not talking about what many claim to, but what scripture says and what an omniscience God sees man looketh on the outward but God sees the heart..This is not about me as an individual but God calling His elect into a knowledge of their salvation..I dont think you are thinking in a coherant manner sorry..When the elect person Hears the good news of their salvation , then they recieve peace in their consiousness of it..rom 5:Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Until born again and being granted faith the elect are ignorant to their salvation..
You may take a "thrust" at my coherency, so be it. Just trying to expand the topic of the "Elect." I was speaking to "election and calling." Calvinists confuse these as meaning the same. "Only the elect are called," is the saying. I was speaker to a greater audience than just you, there are others reading these posts.Yes, we may stand up as believers and say "I'm the elect!" "I'm the elect!" Yet when sharing I like to start with the foundation, with something deeper in mind than perhaps our own selfish concern of salvation. "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." Here we have the objective and subjective gospel. If God does not call everyone for the purpose of "Election" why does He call them at all? God knows that many will refuse to be among the elect, but God is fair to all, and all have the opportunity to be the "elect." God is not a sham, He does not play games concerning the salvation of mankind. God's love is not like our "conditional love" but "unconditional" to all. He wishes all to be ultimately be saved, or the elect, but many refuse to believe this good news.Jake
We are not talking about what many claim to, but what scripture says and what an omniscience God sees man looketh on the outward but God sees the heart..This is not about me as an individual but God calling His elect into a knowledge of their salvation..I dont think you are thinking in a coherant manner sorry..When the elect person Hears the good news of their salvation , then they recieve peace in their consiousness of it..rom 5:Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Until born again and being granted faith the elect are ignorant to their salvation..
You may take a "thrust" at my coherency, so be it. Just trying to expand the topic of the "Elect." I was speaking to "election and calling." Calvinists confuse these as meaning the same. "Only the elect are called," is the saying. I was speaker to a greater audience than just you, there are others reading these posts.Yes, we may stand up as believers and say "I'm the elect!" "I'm the elect!" Yet when sharing I like to start with the foundation, with something deeper in mind than perhaps our own selfish concern of salvation. "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." Here we have the objective and subjective gospel. If God does not call everyone for the purpose of "Election" why does He call them at all? God knows that many will refuse to be among the elect, but God is fair to all, and all have the opportunity to be the "elect." God is not a sham, He does not play games concerning the salvation of mankind. God's love is not like our "conditional love" but "unconditional" to all. He wishes all to be ultimately be saved, or the elect, but many refuse to believe this good news.Jake
(Jon-Marc;23745)
Then calling on the lord is just a formality that really isn't necessary? If I was saved when I was living like the devil and cursing God's name (and cursed the boy who asked me "Do you believe in God?" when I was 15, then I didn't need to repent as he commands us to do. Nor did I need to believe anything written in the Bible (and I didn't) since my name was already written in the Lamb's book of life. If one's name is pre-written in the Book prior to them calling on the Lord, then it is only because He KNOWS who will call upon Him. It is NOT because we are already saved. Prior to May 18, 1963 when I called upon the Lord to forgive and save me, I was as lost as the proverbial goose and would have gone to hell had I died before that time. I thank God for His mercy in sparing me long enough to learn about Him and call upon His name.
Consider the following:Firstly, I do not believe in once saved always saved. I deny Calvinism and Universalism. Calvinism states that God has predestined "the elect" to be saved only, taking the sinners choice out of the matter. In other words, you are saved whether you want to be or not, only God has free will, not man. I reject such a teaching. Universalism states that humanity as a whole will ultimately be saved. I reject that teaching.The Bible does teach that the "grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to everyone." Titus 2:11. Hence, salvation has been brought to everyone. Now then, it teaches us, "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age." Titus 2:12. Christ taught us He came to save the world, not to condemn the world. John 3:17; 12:47. And at the cross He said, "It is finished." John 19:30. Did Christ fail at His mission, was the cross not a success? Yes, He saved (delivered) all mankind from eternal destruction. Yet many refuse to believe the Good News of salvation and it will be to the destruction of their own judgment from Christ's words alone. John 3:18; 12:48. Those who genuinely believe will be ultimately saved at last. Remember, salvation is spoken of in the past, present and future tense. Christ saved all mankind in the past (2 Tim. 1:8-10). Many are presently being saved experientially, and many will ultimately be saved, future. Many will reject the gift already given. Christ's shed blood is never spoken of as an offer but a "gift." This gift has been already given to everyone. When someone gives you a gift and you do not open it, it's still your gift, until you decide to throw or give it away. It's a paradigm shift, but it's the better good news of the gospel the poor suffering sinner needs to hear, bringing the cross of Christ to a fuller and sunlit view. Many fear this truth, since it is not the traditional Calvinistic or Arminianism most have learned, the former being once saved always saved, the latter being the "offer" view, that being, we need to initiate God's cross somehow over and over again every time someone calls upon the Lord. A re-visionist form of the "mass," if you will. But we need not be afraid of the truth that God saved all mankind at the cross, only "agape is the fulfiling of the law," and that all egocentric motivation produces either lukwarmness or eventual falling-away. Rom. 13:10; only "agape never faileth." 1 Corinthians 13:8."In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation." Ephesians 1:13. So we trust in Christ after we hear a certain word of truth. What is that word? It's the good news of our salvation. There is only one way we can hear about our salvation before we have believed it? Why there must be something to believe before we can believe it. Salvation must be a real and existing truth that can be told to us prior to our exercise of faith because it's the telling of that very truth that enables faith to be exercised. He asks us to exercise the faith in the salvation He has already worked out for us in His Son without any participation on our part. Christ died "once" to save sinners. Quote: "Many err in thinking that repentance is of such value as to atone for sin, but this cannot be. Repentance can in no sense be accepted as atonement. ... Grace must be imparted, the atoning sacrifice must avail for man, before he can repent." End QuoteJake
Then calling on the lord is just a formality that really isn't necessary? If I was saved when I was living like the devil and cursing God's name (and cursed the boy who asked me "Do you believe in God?" when I was 15, then I didn't need to repent as he commands us to do. Nor did I need to believe anything written in the Bible (and I didn't) since my name was already written in the Lamb's book of life. If one's name is pre-written in the Book prior to them calling on the Lord, then it is only because He KNOWS who will call upon Him. It is NOT because we are already saved. Prior to May 18, 1963 when I called upon the Lord to forgive and save me, I was as lost as the proverbial goose and would have gone to hell had I died before that time. I thank God for His mercy in sparing me long enough to learn about Him and call upon His name.
Consider the following:Firstly, I do not believe in once saved always saved. I deny Calvinism and Universalism. Calvinism states that God has predestined "the elect" to be saved only, taking the sinners choice out of the matter. In other words, you are saved whether you want to be or not, only God has free will, not man. I reject such a teaching. Universalism states that humanity as a whole will ultimately be saved. I reject that teaching.The Bible does teach that the "grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to everyone." Titus 2:11. Hence, salvation has been brought to everyone. Now then, it teaches us, "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age." Titus 2:12. Christ taught us He came to save the world, not to condemn the world. John 3:17; 12:47. And at the cross He said, "It is finished." John 19:30. Did Christ fail at His mission, was the cross not a success? Yes, He saved (delivered) all mankind from eternal destruction. Yet many refuse to believe the Good News of salvation and it will be to the destruction of their own judgment from Christ's words alone. John 3:18; 12:48. Those who genuinely believe will be ultimately saved at last. Remember, salvation is spoken of in the past, present and future tense. Christ saved all mankind in the past (2 Tim. 1:8-10). Many are presently being saved experientially, and many will ultimately be saved, future. Many will reject the gift already given. Christ's shed blood is never spoken of as an offer but a "gift." This gift has been already given to everyone. When someone gives you a gift and you do not open it, it's still your gift, until you decide to throw or give it away. It's a paradigm shift, but it's the better good news of the gospel the poor suffering sinner needs to hear, bringing the cross of Christ to a fuller and sunlit view. Many fear this truth, since it is not the traditional Calvinistic or Arminianism most have learned, the former being once saved always saved, the latter being the "offer" view, that being, we need to initiate God's cross somehow over and over again every time someone calls upon the Lord. A re-visionist form of the "mass," if you will. But we need not be afraid of the truth that God saved all mankind at the cross, only "agape is the fulfiling of the law," and that all egocentric motivation produces either lukwarmness or eventual falling-away. Rom. 13:10; only "agape never faileth." 1 Corinthians 13:8."In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation." Ephesians 1:13. So we trust in Christ after we hear a certain word of truth. What is that word? It's the good news of our salvation. There is only one way we can hear about our salvation before we have believed it? Why there must be something to believe before we can believe it. Salvation must be a real and existing truth that can be told to us prior to our exercise of faith because it's the telling of that very truth that enables faith to be exercised. He asks us to exercise the faith in the salvation He has already worked out for us in His Son without any participation on our part. Christ died "once" to save sinners. Quote: "Many err in thinking that repentance is of such value as to atone for sin, but this cannot be. Repentance can in no sense be accepted as atonement. ... Grace must be imparted, the atoning sacrifice must avail for man, before he can repent." End QuoteJake
(preciousmessage;23754)
Consider the following:Firstly, I do not believe in once saved always saved. I deny Calvinism and Universalism. Calvinism states that God has predestined "the elect" to be saved only, taking the sinners choice out of the matter. In other words, you are saved whether you want to be or not, only God has free will, not man. I reject such a teaching. Universalism states that humanity as a whole will ultimately be saved. I reject that teaching.The Bible does teach that the "grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to everyone." Titus 2:11. Hence, salvation has been brought to everyone. Now then, it teaches us, "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age." Titus 2:12. Christ taught us He came to save the world, not to condemn the world. John 3:17; 12:47. And at the cross He said, "It is finished." John 19:30. Did Christ fail at His mission, was the cross not a success? Yes, He saved (delivered) all mankind from eternal destruction. Yet many refuse to believe the Good News of salvation and it will be to the destruction of their own judgment from Christ's words alone. John 3:18; 12:48. Those who genuinely believe will be ultimately saved at last. Remember, salvation is spoken of in the past, present and future tense. Christ saved all mankind in the past (2 Tim. 1:8-10). Many are presently being saved experientially, and many will ultimately be saved, future. Many will reject the gift already given. Christ's shed blood is never spoken of as an offer but a "gift." This gift has been already given to everyone. When someone gives you a gift and you do not open it, it's still your gift, until you decide to throw or give it away. It's a paradigm shift, but it's the better good news of the gospel the poor suffering sinner needs to hear, bringing the cross of Christ to a fuller and sunlit view. Many fear this truth, since it is not the traditional Calvinistic or Arminianism most have learned, the former being once saved always saved, the latter being the "offer" view, that being, we need to initiate God's cross somehow over and over again every time someone calls upon the Lord. A re-visionist form of the "mass," if you will. But we need not be afraid of the truth that God saved all mankind at the cross, only "agape is the fulfiling of the law," and that all egocentric motivation produces either lukwarmness or eventual falling-away. Rom. 13:10; only "agape never faileth." 1 Corinthians 13:8."In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation." Ephesians 1:13. So we trust in Christ after we hear a certain word of truth. What is that word? It's the good news of our salvation. There is only one way we can hear about our salvation before we have believed it? Why there must be something to believe before we can believe it. Salvation must be a real and existing truth that can be told to us prior to our exercise of faith because it's the telling of that very truth that enables faith to be exercised. He asks us to exercise the faith in the salvation He has already worked out for us in His Son without any participation on our part. Christ died "once" to save sinners. Quote: "Many err in thinking that repentance is of such value as to atone for sin, but this cannot be. Repentance can in no sense be accepted as atonement. ... Grace must be imparted, the atoning sacrifice must avail for man, before he can repent." End QuoteJake
I believe you are an unbeliever...Saul who became paul was a great sinner in that he persecuted the church of God was consenting to the murder of christians..and God converted him on the damascus road one day..But paul had always even before his conversion , chosen to salvation and to preach the gospel..gal 1But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,All the elect wre seperated from the womb and then later called by grace...
Consider the following:Firstly, I do not believe in once saved always saved. I deny Calvinism and Universalism. Calvinism states that God has predestined "the elect" to be saved only, taking the sinners choice out of the matter. In other words, you are saved whether you want to be or not, only God has free will, not man. I reject such a teaching. Universalism states that humanity as a whole will ultimately be saved. I reject that teaching.The Bible does teach that the "grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to everyone." Titus 2:11. Hence, salvation has been brought to everyone. Now then, it teaches us, "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age." Titus 2:12. Christ taught us He came to save the world, not to condemn the world. John 3:17; 12:47. And at the cross He said, "It is finished." John 19:30. Did Christ fail at His mission, was the cross not a success? Yes, He saved (delivered) all mankind from eternal destruction. Yet many refuse to believe the Good News of salvation and it will be to the destruction of their own judgment from Christ's words alone. John 3:18; 12:48. Those who genuinely believe will be ultimately saved at last. Remember, salvation is spoken of in the past, present and future tense. Christ saved all mankind in the past (2 Tim. 1:8-10). Many are presently being saved experientially, and many will ultimately be saved, future. Many will reject the gift already given. Christ's shed blood is never spoken of as an offer but a "gift." This gift has been already given to everyone. When someone gives you a gift and you do not open it, it's still your gift, until you decide to throw or give it away. It's a paradigm shift, but it's the better good news of the gospel the poor suffering sinner needs to hear, bringing the cross of Christ to a fuller and sunlit view. Many fear this truth, since it is not the traditional Calvinistic or Arminianism most have learned, the former being once saved always saved, the latter being the "offer" view, that being, we need to initiate God's cross somehow over and over again every time someone calls upon the Lord. A re-visionist form of the "mass," if you will. But we need not be afraid of the truth that God saved all mankind at the cross, only "agape is the fulfiling of the law," and that all egocentric motivation produces either lukwarmness or eventual falling-away. Rom. 13:10; only "agape never faileth." 1 Corinthians 13:8."In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation." Ephesians 1:13. So we trust in Christ after we hear a certain word of truth. What is that word? It's the good news of our salvation. There is only one way we can hear about our salvation before we have believed it? Why there must be something to believe before we can believe it. Salvation must be a real and existing truth that can be told to us prior to our exercise of faith because it's the telling of that very truth that enables faith to be exercised. He asks us to exercise the faith in the salvation He has already worked out for us in His Son without any participation on our part. Christ died "once" to save sinners. Quote: "Many err in thinking that repentance is of such value as to atone for sin, but this cannot be. Repentance can in no sense be accepted as atonement. ... Grace must be imparted, the atoning sacrifice must avail for man, before he can repent." End QuoteJake
I believe you are an unbeliever...Saul who became paul was a great sinner in that he persecuted the church of God was consenting to the murder of christians..and God converted him on the damascus road one day..But paul had always even before his conversion , chosen to salvation and to preach the gospel..gal 1But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,All the elect wre seperated from the womb and then later called by grace...
(preciousmessage;23746)
You may take a "thrust" at my coherency, so be it. Just trying to expand the topic of the "Elect." I was speaking to "election and calling." Calvinists confuse these as meaning the same. "Only the elect are called," is the saying. I was speaker to a greater audience than just you, there are others reading these posts.Yes, we may stand up as believers and say "I'm the elect!" "I'm the elect!" Yet when sharing I like to start with the foundation, with something deeper in mind than perhaps our own selfish concern of salvation. "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." Here we have the objective and subjective gospel. If God does not call everyone for the purpose of "Election" why does He call them at all? God knows that many will refuse to be among the elect, but God is fair to all, and all have the opportunity to be the "elect." God is not a sham, He does not play games concerning the salvation of mankind. God's love is not like our "conditional love" but "unconditional" to all. He wishes all to be ultimately be saved, or the elect, but many refuse to believe this good news.Jake
God only Loves His elect...God only saves His elect, the rest are blinded and destined to eternal ruin..
You may take a "thrust" at my coherency, so be it. Just trying to expand the topic of the "Elect." I was speaking to "election and calling." Calvinists confuse these as meaning the same. "Only the elect are called," is the saying. I was speaker to a greater audience than just you, there are others reading these posts.Yes, we may stand up as believers and say "I'm the elect!" "I'm the elect!" Yet when sharing I like to start with the foundation, with something deeper in mind than perhaps our own selfish concern of salvation. "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." Here we have the objective and subjective gospel. If God does not call everyone for the purpose of "Election" why does He call them at all? God knows that many will refuse to be among the elect, but God is fair to all, and all have the opportunity to be the "elect." God is not a sham, He does not play games concerning the salvation of mankind. God's love is not like our "conditional love" but "unconditional" to all. He wishes all to be ultimately be saved, or the elect, but many refuse to believe this good news.Jake
God only Loves His elect...God only saves His elect, the rest are blinded and destined to eternal ruin..
(BroDave;23342)
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
Amen the elect were always the objects of Gods great love before the world began, because we were in christ..
Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.
Amen the elect were always the objects of Gods great love before the world began, because we were in christ..
(savedbygrace57;23768)
Amen the elect were always the objects of Gods great love before the world began, because we were in christ..
This is not only not what the word teaches to top it off I love you quote the following (quote) Originally Posted by BroDave Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.(quote)Why dont you show me where scripture says this sense your using it do back up your statement
Amen the elect were always the objects of Gods great love before the world began, because we were in christ..
This is not only not what the word teaches to top it off I love you quote the following (quote) Originally Posted by BroDave Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.(quote)Why dont you show me where scripture says this sense your using it do back up your statement
(kriss;23786)
This is not only not what the word teaches to top it off I love you quote the following (quote) Originally Posted by BroDave Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.(quote)Why dont you show me where scripture says this sense your using it do back up your statement
Before I show you anymore scripture I must percieve you have been born again sir, you can show a blind man as much light as possible but until he has his eyes opened by christ, he cannot see... you need no more scripture, you need to be born again and thats the truth..
This is not only not what the word teaches to top it off I love you quote the following (quote) Originally Posted by BroDave Of course we are saved before we heard the gospel. Our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That's good enough for me.(quote)Why dont you show me where scripture says this sense your using it do back up your statement
Before I show you anymore scripture I must percieve you have been born again sir, you can show a blind man as much light as possible but until he has his eyes opened by christ, he cannot see... you need no more scripture, you need to be born again and thats the truth..
savedbygrace57
Before I show you anymore scripture I must percieve you have been born again sir, you can show a blind man as much light as possible but until he has his eyes opened by christ, he cannot see... you need no more scripture, you need to be born again and thats the truth..
What is your definition of being born again?How does one be born of water,and if your answer is by being baptised my next question would be,is baptisim needed in order to have eternal salvation?Next question if all as you say are already choosen by God at least those whom He chooses what is the purpose in believing upon Jesus, meaning,if one is already choosen why did Christ have to die and had He not would you still be saved?Next question,what is the purpose of the Bible?How does one know if they were chosen ?How do you know that your name is written in the BookHow do you know that you are one of the elect?If you are one of the elect do you need to read the Bible,if so why?
Before I show you anymore scripture I must percieve you have been born again sir, you can show a blind man as much light as possible but until he has his eyes opened by christ, he cannot see... you need no more scripture, you need to be born again and thats the truth..
What is your definition of being born again?How does one be born of water,and if your answer is by being baptised my next question would be,is baptisim needed in order to have eternal salvation?Next question if all as you say are already choosen by God at least those whom He chooses what is the purpose in believing upon Jesus, meaning,if one is already choosen why did Christ have to die and had He not would you still be saved?Next question,what is the purpose of the Bible?How does one know if they were chosen ?How do you know that your name is written in the BookHow do you know that you are one of the elect?If you are one of the elect do you need to read the Bible,if so why?
(n2thelight;23793)
savedbygrace57What is your definition of being born again?How does one be born of water,and if your answer is by being baptised my next question would be,is baptisim needed in order to have eternal salvation?Next question if all as you say are already choosen by God at least those whom He chooses what is the purpose in believing upon Jesus, meaning,if one is already choosen why did Christ have to die and had He not would you still be saved?Next question,what is the purpose of the Bible?How does one know if they were chosen ?How do you know that your name is written in the BookHow do you know that you are one of the elect?If you are one of the elect do you need to read the Bible,if so why?
Ditto you need not ask a bunch of questions until you are born again sir..You have rejected scripture for your own philosophy..I dont have time to keep answering your questions..:naughty:
savedbygrace57What is your definition of being born again?How does one be born of water,and if your answer is by being baptised my next question would be,is baptisim needed in order to have eternal salvation?Next question if all as you say are already choosen by God at least those whom He chooses what is the purpose in believing upon Jesus, meaning,if one is already choosen why did Christ have to die and had He not would you still be saved?Next question,what is the purpose of the Bible?How does one know if they were chosen ?How do you know that your name is written in the BookHow do you know that you are one of the elect?If you are one of the elect do you need to read the Bible,if so why?
Ditto you need not ask a bunch of questions until you are born again sir..You have rejected scripture for your own philosophy..I dont have time to keep answering your questions..:naughty:
- Status
Similar threads
