Tithing

My two cents worth: I have been in poverty while tithing and in finacial abundance while not tithing. I think people are making connections that cannot be proven. Who is to say that God will not bless the non tither? In fact according to Rom.8:32, all things that come from God are freely given. The typical preaching on the tithe offers a motivation for it, which is that God will bless the person financially if he does and will with hold financial blessing from they who refuse. The scripture does not concur. We are under grace. Tithe teachers use all kinds of pressure and inuendo to motivate people to give into the offering.

The primary difference between the two covenants is not so much in what we are to do or not, but WHY we are to do it or not. This is where many fall off the grace wagon. I knew a grace belieiving pastor who was told by his piers in ministry that if he did not preach the tithe, his church would fail financially. This reveals something about their own motives for preaching it. Of course, he ignored thier warnings and of course, his church prospered anyway. Go figure!

williemac said:

My two cents worth: I have been in poverty while tithing and in finacial abundance while not tithing. I think people are making connections that cannot be proven. Who is to say that God will not bless the non tither? In fact according to Rom.8:32, all things that come from God are freely given. The typical preaching on the tithe offers a motivation for it, which is that God will bless the person financially if he does and will with hold financial blessing from they who refuse. The scripture does not concur. We are under grace. Tithe teachers use all kinds of pressure and inuendo to motivate people to give into the offering.

The primary difference between the two covenants is not so much in what we are to do or not, but WHY we are to do it or not. This is where many fall off the grace wagon. I knew a grace belieiving pastor who was told by his piers in ministry that if he did not preach the tithe, his church would fail financially. This reveals something about their own motives for preaching it. Of course, he ignored thier warnings and of course, his church prospered anyway. Go figure!

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You're exactly right and when I look at these mega churches with their fancy toys and well paid staff, I think something is amiss and we've gotten too far away from the Old Rugged Cross. I see pastors who pressure for tithes in the same light as the televangelists who similarly abused Scripture to fleece the people of God. I prefer the way my pastor makes the needs of the church known. He tells us we need roof work, or new pews, or something painted. He asks for volunteers to help and he gives is a realistic estimate of the costs. Because he's a priest, I know he doesn't benefit from more offerings coming in because priests take a vow of poverty and their compensation is a fixed amount.

The point is, people can tell when their pastor is on the level, asking them to help deal with real maintenance and upgrade costs as well as other expenses, and also what ministries and missions the church supports. But when pastors start laying guilt on people, telling them that they're holding out on "God" by paying less than 10% tithe on their GROSS INCOME, and offerings on top of that, I can just picture Jesus picking up a whip, and with a fierce look in his eye, proceed to drive the oppressors out of his house.

This Vale Of Tears said:

You're exactly right and when I look at these mega churches with their fancy toys and well paid staff, I think something is amiss and we've gotten too far away from the Old Rugged Cross. I see pastors who pressure for tithes in the same light as the televangelists who similarly abused Scripture to fleece the people of God. I prefer the way my pastor makes the needs of the church known. He tells us we need roof work, or new pews, or something painted. He asks for volunteers to help and he gives is a realistic estimate of the costs. Because he's a priest, I know he doesn't benefit from more offerings coming in because priests take a vow of poverty and their compensation is a fixed amount.

The point is, people can tell when their pastor is on the level, asking them to help deal with real maintenance and upgrade costs as well as other expenses, and also what ministries and missions the church supports. But when pastors start laying guilt on people, telling them that they're holding out on "God" by paying less than 10% tithe on their GROSS INCOME, and offerings on top of that, I can just picture Jesus picking up a whip, and with a fierce look in his eye, proceed to drive the oppressors out of his house.

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Thank you for sharing that. We need to support the local church for sure, but not be enticed with false hope or fear of lack. The fact is, if this prosperity stuff, word of faith, or whatever one wants to call it, if it works, then it would be true also in third world countries. No, the reality is that whatever God asks us to do, He supplies the means first. This is not about doing things so that our own lives can be enriched as a reward. Our enrichment, whatever it may be, comes freely, by grace. We give simply because we have it to give. Not everyone is equal in that. I remember feeling pressured years ago to give something in a special seasonal offering, so my wife and I put our wedding rings in the offering because we were financially poor and had nothing else of value. I am ashamed of that in looking back. We were young in the Lord and did not know any better. But to the shame of the church we were attending, they did not see fit to take it upon themselves to lovingly hand them back. They probably got a fraction of the value. And we stayed broke for a long time. The teaching is flawed, false, and thus the teachers are blind. Rather than set people free, they burden them

I think if we are going to tithe it should be on the local level , and hopefully to a church that we feel comfortable in , often the church itself will send surpluses to third world ministries and evangelism , or provide soup kitchens for the hungry etc.

That way if church staff drive up in a Rolls Royce , you will know something is amiss

Many years ago I attended a small church who had no paid staff , instead members of the congregation were lay preachers and it was all volunteer. The income was only $11,000 a year , and they gave $6,000 a year away to 3rd world missionaries .

In recent years I attend a church with 600 members who also run an fully accredited christian school , the school was so successful , parents from all walks of life brought their children and they all became Christians .... neat how that works sometimes

We just did a $3 million expansion to keep up with the growth , we raised half in cash before we even started building. It is a rural farming area and nobody is rich , nobody insists on tithing , it was mostly volunteer donations.

It can be very rewarding to donate to local endeavors such as that

To me it represents the true "prosperity gospel"

Randor,

I stand with you, as I am for tithing too. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I always do give at least a tithe... Sometimes I can't and I feel sick about it all week. It's not because the Church I goes to looks down on me because I don't always make it. It's because I want to be the best giver I can. In other words, it's not their pressure on me, it's mine!

Without fail, every time I see this type of thread the conversation always ends up talking about "money hungry preachers". I have no doubt they exist, and I hate them too. But if that is what is keeping you back from giving a tithe -- or anything, for that matter -- it's the wrong position to take. Look to the Bible and what the Apostles, Prophets and Jesus said about giving. And by the way... There's a little discussed verse that quotes Jesus as saying we ought to give TITHES. It's not the focal point of his discussion (which is in a round about sense, faith, mercy and kindness), but it is there. I'm referring to Mat 23:23.

A real quick note to williemac...I don't understand why you are ashamed of the gift you gave. You put your wedding rings in the offering? Don't look at it as giving to a preacher, but you gave that to God! Yes, the preacher takes control of it, as is his God given right (I mean that literally, because God said the offerings to God go to the Levite). Why spoil such a precious gift you gave to God with regret?

There are some Bible rules for giving; 1. Do it cheerfully; 2. Do it for the teaching; 3. Don't do it out of necessity; 4. Don't broadcast it, but do it privately. There are also promises for givers: 1. Your cup will run over; 2. God loves cheerful givers; 3. You add to your heavenly bank account. There are reasons to give: 1. You are supporting a man (preacher) who watches for your soul and labors to bring you the Word; 2. You provide a means for other people to hear the gospel; 3. (least of all, in my opinion) you provide physical relief for the brethren in their everyday needs.

Tithing? Well, it was the standard that was set by Abraham BEFORE the law came into effect. Jesus also said we ought to give that amount. Sure, we are under grace and not bound by the law. And yes, tithing was part of the law. Know whats funny? by the way? Watch how many people like to wave the "Under grace" flag when it comes to tithing, yet put down that flag when it comes to smoking, drinking and sex... Just interesting... But anyway, Where is your heart? Is it with God? He wants you to be like him, right? He's a giver. He gave his only begotten son! God literally gave his life, and you whine about giving 10%? But no... Don't ever give out of guilt. Give out of love for the Word. However, even if you look at the tithe as a "suggestion" or something you "ought" to do... If that's a suggestion God gave, I like it!

This Vale Of Tears said:

You're exactly right and when I look at these mega churches with their fancy toys and well paid staff, I think something is amiss and we've gotten too far away from the Old Rugged Cross. I see pastors who pressure for tithes in the same light as the televangelists who similarly abused Scripture to fleece the people of God. I prefer the way my pastor makes the needs of the church known. He tells us we need roof work, or new pews, or something painted. He asks for volunteers to help and he gives is a realistic estimate of the costs. Because he's a priest, I know he doesn't benefit from more offerings coming in because priests take a vow of poverty and their compensation is a fixed amount.

The point is, people can tell when their pastor is on the level, asking them to help deal with real maintenance and upgrade costs as well as other expenses, and also what ministries and missions the church supports. But when pastors start laying guilt on people, telling them that they're holding out on "God" by paying less than 10% tithe on their GROSS INCOME, and offerings on top of that, I can just picture Jesus picking up a whip, and with a fierce look in his eye, proceed to drive the oppressors out of his house.

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williemac said:

My two cents worth: I have been in poverty while tithing and in finacial abundance while not tithing. I think people are making connections that cannot be proven. Who is to say that God will not bless the non tither? In fact according to Rom.8:32, all things that come from God are freely given. The typical preaching on the tithe offers a motivation for it, which is that God will bless the person financially if he does and will with hold financial blessing from they who refuse. The scripture does not concur. We are under grace. Tithe teachers use all kinds of pressure and inuendo to motivate people to give into the offering.

The primary difference between the two covenants is not so much in what we are to do or not, but WHY we are to do it or not. This is where many fall off the grace wagon. I knew a grace belieiving pastor who was told by his piers in ministry that if he did not preach the tithe, his church would fail financially. This reveals something about their own motives for preaching it. Of course, he ignored thier warnings and of course, his church prospered anyway. Go figure!

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I agree, I have had friends who have nurtured this idea that if they give to the church that God will bless them and all their financial woes will disappear, they even equated time spent in worship and study as giving of themselves, funnily enough when the pay back wasnt coming back fast enough their faiths dwindled and they harbored a animosity toward God.
They had fallen prey to these ideas that they would be richly rewarded in this lifetime for their efforts, that the more they gave the more they would receive.
They would say, "we go to church we give all the time why does God continue to punish us"

when Jesus walked the earth he was born in a filthy stable, grew up in poverty he was homeless throughout his entire ministry relying on the good will of others, he gave of himself so much so that he gave up his own life as he was falsely accused and hung on a cross.

Thank you folks for caring!

If my buddies in our Lord are for "Tithing," so am I, ie, spiritually that is - not with the letter of the law. Only remember Jesus was the 'end' of all Jewish levitical regulations.

Old spirit of the law, Jack, ICor.16:1, etc.

BTW mad at myself for wanting to take money out of our Hawaiian Lulu Bowl when it's passed around instead of giving at times.

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I dont think anyone is against tithing ... the issue is more about who you give your tithe to.

Arnie Manitoba said:

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I dont think anyone is against tithing ... the issue is more about who you give your tithe to.

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That shouldn't be an issue.... You should be giving to God. The preacher gets to use the money, but you are giving it God, and he in turn gives it to his servant, the preacher. Now, if you are concerned with the preacher using the money wrong, why are you following him? AND, is your intent really to give to God?

I think there's a major difference between a prosperity gospel and an attitude of giving. I think we should give regularly because the church as an institution of the Lord needs to continue until the end, but these Joel Osteen types who preach that if you give all your problems will be solved set desperate believers up to be let down.
Jesus never preached that life in His name was going to be easy, in fact He tells us that its going to get harder, the only joy we have is in His promise that we are justified and sanctified.
We have a crown to look forward too and treasures stored in heaven for our fruit.

FHII said:

That shouldn't be an issue.... You should be giving to God. The preacher gets to use the money, but you are giving it God, and he in turn gives it to his servant, the preacher. Now, if you are concerned with the preacher using the money wrong, why are you following him? AND, is your intent really to give to God?

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What does that mean ... "giving to God" ?? ... he is not here

Would you call Robert Tilton God ???

See what I mean

Rom.11: 35...."... who has first given to Him that it shall be repaid him?" 36: " For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be the glory forever. Amen" .
Giving in order to help a cause or in order to help the poor or in order to demonstrate His nature within us....are all the right reasons to give. But giving money in order to help or increase one's own financial situation.....? Wrong reason. God supplies seed to the sower. If we sow for an earthly and temporal reward, we lose the eternal benefit. For examp[le, if we pray to be seen by men, we have our reward, as Jesus said. Same goes for this situation. If one wants to increase his earthly financial situation he can do as the rest of the world does, and get an education, work, invest, and so on. There are no shortcuts. And no guarantees. Any needs that God takes care of in this life are given freely by grace. (Rom.8:32). He knows what we have need of before we tithe.. ask.

Here's the problem...many people want to throw out the baby with the bath water. IOW, they think being under the NEW covenant means we don't do anything or are not subject to anything under the OLD covenant. The law of reaping what you sow did not originate in Galatians 6. It can also be found in Job 4 and Prov 22. Tithing was and is one of those laws of God that was NOT superseded by the NC, because it was like the above, required even before the OC. It is considered a minimum requirement but NOT a legalistic one as Jesus taught in Matthew 23:23 NIV.

Arnie Manitoba said:

.I dont think anyone is against tithing ... the issue is more about who you give your tithe to.

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Great brother Arnie, ie, I know the Gospels condemned "Tithing" three times - glad my brothers here don't nor do I, loosely speaking of course. I give to the Churches that really have a little children through youth's outreach ministry even through agreeing to disagree with their essenstials of the faith.

No sarcasm intended, this time, old Jack

RANDOR said:

The Lord said to bring into the storehouse................the storehouse is suppose to be your church...but many here have said...we don't go to church.
People......ya need to surrender..........really surrender................only when you surrender.............are you truly giving.
People have such a problem with this.............I'm going to give here or maybe I'll give there.......because i know where my moneys is going.
You are still making it your money.............and not God's..................so ya think you can do a better job with God's money than God can....
That is what is called surrendering. Then and only then..........when God sees..........look they gave it to me..........so now they are trusting me with their/my money .

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Finally down to my paygrade!

Agree to agree!

Old normally disagreeing Jack