Who is God?

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arunangelo

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[SIZE=medium]Although many of us believe in the presence of God[/SIZE] and know that he loves us, he is not real to us; because He is invisible. God is invisible because he is not matter, but a spirit. Spirit, like a force is invisible; yet they both exert influence on material objects. Spirit, however, is more than just a force; because spirit has life. It is therefore dynamic and creative. The ultimate Spirit is God. The life of God's Spirit is love and it is the force of love in the universe. God shares his life with us by imprinting his spirit on our heart. This enables us to unconditionally love others and show his presence to others through our expression of love. Such expressions of love include: soldiers carrying enemy combatants on their shoulder for medical care; people staying faithful to their marriage vows although their spouses have hurt and betrayed them; people going out of their way and even putting their life on the line to help those who have hurt them; people giving away everything, including their own desires, and travelling to countries that are devoid of basic sanitation and comfort, in order to bring the good news about God’s love to others. We can also experience the presence of God when we ponder on infinite sacrifice God made for us on the cross; and reenter it at the Lord’s Supper.
 
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Madad21

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arunangelo said:
[SIZE=medium]Although many of us believe in the presence of God and know that he loves us, he is not real to us; because He is invisible. ve to others. We can also experience the presence of God when we ponder on infinite sacrifice God made for us on the cross; and reenter it at the Lord’s Supper.[/SIZE]
Thanks for this, Amen!!

The only thing I have to deffer on is "He is not real to us because he's invisible"
God came in to human history and presented Himself too us in the man Jesus Christ, he walked with us, talked with us and ate with us. He taught many things and as you pointed out gave up his life on the cross. This is our connection with God, we can relate to Jesus because there is nothing we go through that didnt happen to Him first.
When we desire the presence of God we call upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now you may say this is the same thing because Jesus isnt here with us in the flesh now, but this would be untrue because when Jesus left he sent to us The Spirit so we would not be alone. When we want to see Jesus we only need to look at our brothers and sisters.

Also another way of looking at it is in the case of those who have passed away. friends and relatives who though they are now no longer with us we carry with us in our hearts but it doesn't make them any less real because they are no longer here. I never met the great evangelist Billy Graham and now he has long since past away, But what I am sure of is that Billy Graham is most certainly real because of the massive body of proof I have seen of his existence that echoes to this day. The same is true of Christ, I never met Him in the flesh but I now he is real due to a massive body of proof. However the big difference is in the fact that unlike the long deceased Jesus is still with us today and when we ask Christ in to our lives we experience his presence in a wonderful way which affirms our faith through real life experience today, this is much more then a memory this is a on going relationship we have now with a very real and tangible God.

A God of Love as you rightly say.
 

Madad21

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Mr.Bride said:
Madad I don't believe Billy Graham's gone to glory yet..Good read tho
Oh LOL!! my bad :D (embarrassed)

I should have said Johnny Cash hes my next favorite evangelist.
 

Forsakenone

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Mr.Bride said:
Madad I don't believe Billy Graham's gone to glory yet..Good read tho
I agree, really demonstrates the fruits of faithful witnesses and that of the reprobate.

This is never so evident as the fruit of Madad’s quote;

Madad21 said:
The same is true of Christ, I never met Him in the flesh but I now he is real due to a massive body of proof.
I wondered why you rebuked my witness that God does not hate, and Madad has called me a fool in his righteousness for my witness that if one is born of the Spirit and the Word they gain understanding; yet but my understanding was foolishness as having my eyes in my head and walking by my sight and not by faith. 2 Cor 5:7

So in conclusion I just wanted to express these thoughts to both of you the value I place in your correction, reproof and instruction by the words written in James 2:20.
 

Mr.Bride

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Forsakenone said:
I agree, really demonstrates the fruits of faithful witnesses and that of the reprobate.

This is never so evident as the fruit of Madad’s quote;


I wondered why you rebuked my witness that God does not hate, and Madad has called me a fool in his righteousness for my witness that if one is born of the Spirit and the Word they gain understanding; yet but my understanding was foolishness as having my eyes in my head and walking by my sight and not by faith. 2 Cor 5:7

So in conclusion I just wanted to express these thoughts to both of you the value I place in your correction, reproof and instruction by the words written in James 2:20.
Not understanding...???
 

Madad21

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Mr.Bride said:
Not understanding...???
He's talking about this conversation here Post number 10 at http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20355-what-does-it-mean-to-be-created-male-and-female/?p=232478 which he has referred to out of context here for his own end.

And thus why I have him on my ignore list, and rightfully so.

I agree, really demonstrates the fruits of faithful witnesses and that of the reprobate.

This is never so evident as the fruit of Madad’s quote;


And here is a very cheap shot, because thats what it takes to gain a very cheap victory.
 

Forsakenone

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Nomad said:
Probably because Scripture refutes you, as I have already proven.
Yes, you have proven that man has written that God hates but Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. So do you think God talks to those he hates?

But it is also written that God does not hate. Do you deny that it is written that God does not hate?

Let's see if you believe in the logic of your own argument that God hates because a scripture says that it is written that God hated Esau in Romans 9:13
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Tim 5:23

Well, it is written in the scriptures "Drink no longer water". So do you drink water?

LOL, that would be a good brand name for a bottled water, "No Longer". It would be like having an endorsement from God because it is written in the scriptures which you claim is the Word of God.
I can see the advertisement, " "If your going to sin, then sin the sin endorsed by God, Drink "No Longer" water!"

Mr.Bride said:
Not understanding...???
It is error only, not truth that shrinks from inquiry
 

This Vale Of Tears

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Jun 13, 2013
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  • Somehow we've gotten way off topic and transplanted old contentions from other threads to this one.
To the OP, I agree wholeheartedly that we make God physical when we do his will, becoming his hands and feet.

I don't know if I agree that God is spirit. The whole point of the Incarnation is that God took flesh and dwelt among us. He rose bodily into heaven where he continues to intercede on our behalf as only a God of flesh and blood can. And in Christ, the fullness of deity rests in bodily form (Colossians 2:9) and as the angel of Acts prophesied, he will return in bodily form to bring about the end and final judgment. Even heaven will be a paradise of profound physical beauty. We've been conditioned to think of God as spirit, and indeed the Holy Spirit is invisible to us, but God is not just spirit, he's become part of his creation, one of us, and lives to this day with flesh and blood and the scars inflicted upon him for our salvation.
 

Nomad

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Forsakenone said:
Yes, you have proven that man has written that God hates...
Oh okay. I see the problem here. You deny the inspiration of Scripture. So tell me, what is the source of your knowledge of God?


But it is also written that God does not hate. Do you deny that it is written that God does not hate?
Yes I do deny it. Show me.

Let's see if you believe in the logic of your own argument that God hates because a scripture says that it is written that God hated Esau in Romans 9:13
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Tim 5:23

Well, it is written in the scriptures "Drink no longer water". So do you drink water?
You're kidding right? That is not a universal injunction. That was written directly to Timothy. Just because something is written in Scripture doesn't mean it's for you or for me.
 

aspen

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This gets to the issue of what inspired means. I've certainly been accused by people who do not like my opinion on scripture, of being a denier of inspiration in the Bible.

The problem is I believe scripture is inspired. Every word of the Bible is supposed to be there and it is absolute true as far as the knowledge base of the writers allow it to be. It is not a direct, word for word transcript of God's words - sorry. I know how much Calvinists want it to be, but it just isn't - that is not what inspired means. God would have given us a video tape of Himself if He was concerned about us understanding His plan immediately. Instead He used imperfect people to communicate His plans and character and desire for a relationship with us - it is just the way it is and it comes with inherent dangers. Fortunately, God is in this for the long haul.

Every word in the Bible is true. Every word is supposed to be there. That does not mean that it is all literal. It does not mean it is supposed to represent God's character accurately or completely, it is a snapshot of how a writer viewed God. It doesn't mean it is worthless - it is there to teach us about humanities attempt to understand what God is trying to tell us.

The book is filled with moral compromise, immorality, and human reasoning about events concerning wars and death and power and how God fits into the picture.
 

Madad21

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aspen said:
This gets to the issue of what inspired means. I've certainly been accused by people who do not like my opinion on scripture, of being a denier of inspiration in the Bible.

The problem is I believe scripture is inspired. Every word of the Bible is supposed to be there and it is absolute true as far as the knowledge base of the writers allow it to be. It is not a direct, word for word transcript of God's words - sorry. I know how much Calvinists want it to be, but it just isn't - that is not what inspired means. God would have given us a video tape of Himself if He was concerned about us understanding His plan immediately. Instead He used imperfect people to communicate His plans and character and desire for a relationship with us - it is just the way it is and it comes with inherent dangers. Fortunately, God is in this for the long haul.

Every word in the Bible is true. Every word is supposed to be there. That does not mean that it is all literal. It does not mean it is supposed to represent God's character accurately or completely, it is a snapshot of how a writer viewed God. It doesn't mean it is worthless - it is there to teach us about humanities attempt to understand what God is trying to tell us.

The book is filled with moral compromise, immorality, and human reasoning about events concerning wars and death and power and how God fits into the picture.

2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

:)
 

This Vale Of Tears

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aspen said:
This gets to the issue of what inspired means. I've certainly been accused by people who do not like my opinion on scripture, of being a denier of inspiration in the Bible.

The problem is I believe scripture is inspired. Every word of the Bible is supposed to be there and it is absolute true as far as the knowledge base of the writers allow it to be. It is not a direct, word for word transcript of God's words - sorry. I know how much Calvinists want it to be, but it just isn't - that is not what inspired means. God would have given us a video tape of Himself if He was concerned about us understanding His plan immediately. Instead He used imperfect people to communicate His plans and character and desire for a relationship with us - it is just the way it is and it comes with inherent dangers. Fortunately, God is in this for the long haul.

Every word in the Bible is true. Every word is supposed to be there. That does not mean that it is all literal. It does not mean it is supposed to represent God's character accurately or completely, it is a snapshot of how a writer viewed God. It doesn't mean it is worthless - it is there to teach us about humanities attempt to understand what God is trying to tell us.

The book is filled with moral compromise, immorality, and human reasoning about events concerning wars and death and power and how God fits into the picture.
I keep trying to get Protestants to understand sitz im leben but to no avail. You certainly explain it well, but I'm afraid it's still lost on our friends here.
 

aspen

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thanks Vale. it is against a Prostestants interests to understand it because they view it as a direct attack on sola scriptura, which cannot be attacked, IMO because it is not valid. OTOH, i used to be in their shoes and understand their POV and how important the issue is for their faith.
 

Madad21

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Dear God

When I cried out to Jesus and He came in to my life that night, was what I felt real or just my interpretation of what I thought I should experience although I did not know You at all?

And the Bible You knew I would be given as a gift at my baptism the same Bible You knew I would learn that every Word is true and that I can stand on every Word and grow in my faith, was that not quite true either, and it is as people say someone else s interpretation of what You might have said and what You may have meant and who You may have been?

So God, when You knew Your Word would go out to all nations in to different languages, you also knew that the Word You sent out was also marred by the insights and interpretations of imperfect man regardless of Your power and Your Spirit to keep it complete and infallible and inspired?

Why do You allow me though I have experienced your presence to grow wise in a translation that is corrupt and not meant to be taken literally, and allow others who are apparently lost to your insight scwobble blindly in the pages of Hebrew scripts, Lord in my time I have only experienced those who deny the oneness of The Three and the divinity of Christ as God the Son, quoting from the Hebrew translations. If their Word has a truer meaning then how can they be so misguided how can they be so wrong?

Have I been wrong Father, have I been misguided by taking your word literally??

As a Christian I seek You in Your Word so that I may know You as You knew that I would, why would You give me a corrupt bible to build upon a true and real experience, An experience You Yourself gave me, one that I can not deny.

God when I read your Word, can I really take each word in its contemporary form as literal and infallible though in the Spirit of truth that You said protects it as I should take my contemporary salvation?

If Your Word is not true in the pages that lay in my Lap how can I believe in the promises You made, and how can I know that it is truly You that I seek, why would you do this to me?

No, I know your Word is true, because God you are the Alpha and Omega and You are the same today as You were yesterday and your Word is the same today in the hands of those you love as it was in the translations of those You loved in the beginning.

The translation I read is how You have decided to communicate with me today and because this is true I can know that every word I read is what You mean and what You meant.

I am lifted up to You Father when I read from Your Word and I am filled to the brim with Your Spirit and I am encouraged by every Word because You speak truth and You give light by it, not a single Word is out of place not a single letter purged.

When I am confronted with conflict Lord you bring Scripture to mind and I am in my own fallible wisdom given insight beyond my understanding and I can stand strong against the empty words of men in the power of Your might in Your Word, every single letter every full stop and every coma.

Apart from my Salvation it is my dearest possession and I will guard every word with my life, because by it You my God have chosen to reach out to me though I did not deserve You.

Lord when others try to tell me that Your Word is not true and that I can not take it literally it feels like a cold shiver running down the length of my spine and I am left with a pain in my stomach.

I have prayed many times Father that you would correct in me any teaching that is untrue, and You have done so every-time, but never have I been corrected by Your guiding Spirit because of any Word I have read in the Bible I was given.

Thank you Father God for your Word that I might be closer to you and that I might worship you with all my heart mind and spirit. you Word literal and true nourishes me and I walk by faith and I am strengthened everyday by every literal letter regardless of what the others may say, I will listen to You above the rational of men, because your thoughts are higher then their thoughts and Your ways higher then their ways. (Isa 55:9)

You Word is my life blood Father God, and when I asked Christ in to my life did You give me a rock or a snake? (Matthew 7:9-10)
No you gave me all I have asked for because I have sought it and the Words You have given me are the Words You wanted me to have so that I may know You Great and Majestic Father. God of my life and Lord of my Salvation.

I shall trust in every word and praise you with every contemporary letter.

Amen Amen Amen


"Because of its importance and its claim to be the very Word of God, the Bible has suffered more vicious attacks and attempts to destroy it than any other book in history. From early Roman Emperors like Diocletian, through communist dictators and on to modern-day atheists and agnostics, the Bible has withstood and outlasted all of its attackers and is still today the most widely published book in the world.
Throughout time, skeptics have regarded the Bible as mythological, but archeology has confirmed it as historical. Opponents have attacked its teaching as primitive and outdated, but its moral and legal concepts and teachings have had a positive influence on societies and cultures throughout the world. It continues to be attacked by pseudo-science, psychology, and political movements, yet it remains just as true and relevant today as it was when it was first written. It is a book that has transformed countless lives and cultures throughout the last 2000 years. No matter how its opponents try to attack, destroy, or discredit it, the Bible remains; its veracity and impact on lives is unmistakable. The accuracy which has been preserved despite every attempt to corrupt, attack, or destroy it is clear testimony to the fact that the Bible is truly God’s Word and is supernaturally protected by Him. It should not surprise us that, no matter how the Bible is attacked, it always comes out unchanged and unscathed. After all, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Mark 13:31). After looking at the evidence, one can say without a doubt that, yes, the Bible is truly God’s Word." (:http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html#ixzz37TSdocXs)
 

Forsakenone

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Nomad said:
Oh okay. I see the problem here. You deny the inspiration of Scripture. So tell me, what is the source of your knowledge of God?
As if you would believe me...soon as I get finished listening the music I will answer you.
 

Nomad

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aspen said:
Every word in the Bible is true. Every word is supposed to be there. That does not mean that it is all literal. It does not mean it is supposed to represent God's character accurately or completely, it is a snapshot of how a writer viewed God.
Wrong. All Scripture is "theopneustos." It's "God-breathed." That's the Biblical definition of "inspiration."

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
 

Madad21

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Forsakenone said:
It is error only, not truth that shrinks from inquiry
Ok then, if you feel that after such an ignorant ranting both here and in my thread, that you truly have premise for a contextual intelligent inquiry that actually makes sense then by all means present yourself by your merit and I will answer you.
 

RANDOR

Fishin Everyday
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Madad21 said:
Dear God

When I cried out to Jesus and He came in to my life that night, was what I felt real or just my interpretation of what I thought I should experience although I did not know You at all?

And the Bible You knew I would be given as a gift at my baptism the same Bible You knew I would learn that every Word is true and that I can stand on every Word and grow in my faith, was that not quite true either, and it is as people say someone else s interpretation of what You might have said and what You may have meant and who You may have been?

So God, when You knew Your Word would go out to all nations in to different languages, you also knew that the Word You sent out was also marred by the insights and interpretations of imperfect man regardless of Your power and Your Spirit to keep it complete and infallible and inspired?

Why do You allow me though I have experienced your presence to grow wise in a translation that is corrupt and not meant to be taken literally, and allow others who are apparently lost to your insight scwobble blindly in the pages of Hebrew scripts, Lord in my time I have only experienced those who deny the oneness of The Three and the divinity of Christ as God the Son, quoting from the Hebrew translations. If their Word has a truer meaning then how can they be so misguided how can they be so wrong?

Have I been wrong Father, have I been misguided by taking your word literally??

As a Christian I seek You in Your Word so that I may know You as You knew that I would, why would You give me a corrupt bible to build upon a true and real experience, An experience You Yourself gave me, one that I can not deny.

God when I read your Word, can I really take each word in its contemporary form as literal and infallible though in the Spirit of truth that You said protects it as I should take my contemporary salvation?

If Your Word is not true in the pages that lay in my Lap how can I believe in the promises You made, and how can I know that it is truly You that I seek, why would you do this to me?

No, I know your Word is true, because God you are the Alpha and Omega and You are the same today as You were yesterday and your Word is the same today in the hands of those you love as it was in the translations of those You loved in the beginning.

The translation I read is how You have decided to communicate with me today and because this is true I can know that every word I read is what You mean and what You meant.

I am lifted up to You Father when I read from Your Word and I am filled to the brim with Your Spirit and I am encouraged by every Word because You speak truth and You give light by it, not a single Word is out of place not a single letter purged.

When I am confronted with conflict Lord you bring Scripture to mind and I am in my own fallible wisdom given insight beyond my understanding and I can stand strong against the empty words of men in the power of Your might in Your Word, every single letter every full stop and every coma.

Apart from my Salvation it is my dearest possession and I will guard every word with my life, because by it You my God have chosen to reach out to me though I did not deserve You.

Lord when others try to tell me that Your Word is not true and that I can not take it literally it feels like a cold shiver running down the length of my spine and I am left with a pain in my stomach.

I have prayed many times Father that you would correct in me any teaching that is untrue, and You have done so every-time, but never have I been corrected by Your guiding Spirit because of any Word I have read in the Bible I was given.

Thank you Father God for your Word that I might be closer to you and that I might worship you with all my heart mind and spirit. you Word literal and true nourishes me and I walk by faith and I am strengthened everyday by every literal letter regardless of what the others may say, I will listen to You above the rational of men, because your thoughts are higher then their thoughts and Your ways higher then their ways. (Isa 55:9)

You Word is my life blood Father God, and when I asked Christ in to my life did You give me a rock or a snake? (Matthew 7:9-10)
No you gave me all I have asked for because I have sought it and the Words You have given me are the Words You wanted me to have so that I may know You Great and Majestic Father. God of my life and Lord of my Salvation.

I shall trust in every word and praise you with every contemporary letter.

Amen Amen Amen


"Because of its importance and its claim to be the very Word of God, the Bible has suffered more vicious attacks and attempts to destroy it than any other book in history. From early Roman Emperors like Diocletian, through communist dictators and on to modern-day atheists and agnostics, the Bible has withstood and outlasted all of its attackers and is still today the most widely published book in the world.
Throughout time, skeptics have regarded the Bible as mythological, but archeology has confirmed it as historical. Opponents have attacked its teaching as primitive and outdated, but its moral and legal concepts and teachings have had a positive influence on societies and cultures throughout the world. It continues to be attacked by pseudo-science, psychology, and political movements, yet it remains just as true and relevant today as it was when it was first written. It is a book that has transformed countless lives and cultures throughout the last 2000 years. No matter how its opponents try to attack, destroy, or discredit it, the Bible remains; its veracity and impact on lives is unmistakable. The accuracy which has been preserved despite every attempt to corrupt, attack, or destroy it is clear testimony to the fact that the Bible is truly God’s Word and is supernaturally protected by Him. It should not surprise us that, no matter how the Bible is attacked, it always comes out unchanged and unscathed. After all, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Mark 13:31). After looking at the evidence, one can say without a doubt that, yes, the Bible is truly God’s Word." (:http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html#ixzz37TSdocXs)
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to the Bone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!