Salvation by Grace through faith alone

lforrest · Jul 14, 2014

There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I believe this refers to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. But read carefully, it says, "who began" is that a foregone conclusion or a condition?

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.
James 1:12
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 10:21-22
Acts 14:22
Revelation 2:10

What is the cause of this danger?

shturt678 · Jul 14, 2014

lforrest said:
There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I believe this refers to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. But read carefully, it says, "who began" is that a foregone conclusion or a condition?

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.
James 1:12
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 10:21-22
Acts 14:22
Revelation 2:10

What is the cause of this danger?

Thank you for posting!

In light of Eph.2:5, more of a "condition." There is a danger in each step, ie, grace operates in a certain order, and never effects regeneration in one blow.

Only an opinion, old Jack

RANDOR · Jul 14, 2014

I would take it as a conclusion myself....I mean look at cha.......you are in here 24/7..........satan would want you to be somewhere else.
So......it looks to me..............He is continuing that good work in ya.....
proud of ya.............and if I'm proud of ya ...bein just a mere man.....wow!!!! what does Jesus think.

lforrest · Jul 14, 2014

I maintain a presence through my cell phone, if I were worried for myself I would be far more concerned than just making a post. There would be far more prayer and fasting.

I'm concerned about correct doctrine.

RANDOR · Jul 14, 2014

lforrest said:
I maintain a presence through my cell phone, if I were worried for myself I would be far more concerned than just making a post. There would be far more prayer and fasting.

I'm concerned about correct doctrine.

oh.....sorry :unsure:

lforrest · Jul 14, 2014

RANDOR said:
oh.....sorry :unsure:

Most be all that second hand smoke

shturt678 · Jul 14, 2014

lforrest said:
I maintain a presence through my cell phone, if I were worried for myself I would be far more concerned than just making a post. There would be far more prayer and fasting.

I'm concerned about correct doctrine.

Thank you!

Not picking on you in the least...was curious regarding where we draw the line regarding doctrines: anxiety and salvation, there is no fear of God before their eyes and salvation, forever security and salvation, for example, should we lean toward being secure in our salvation, or more towards placing our security in our Lord?

Don't pay that much attention as just bouncing some things off you,

Old Jack

lforrest · Jul 14, 2014

shturt678 said:
Thank you!

Not picking on you in the least...was curious regarding where we draw the line regarding doctrines: anxiety and salvation, there is no fear of God before their eyes and salvation, forever security and salvation, for example, should we lean toward being secure in our salvation, or more towards placing our security in our Lord?

Don't pay that much attention as just bouncing some things off you,

Old Jack

All I know is I can't make myself afraid of God again. Call it stupidity, or over-confidence in him.

I really don't trust any message people give on God's behalf, they have to bring my attention to what God is saying. Even then I'll forget if it doesn't ring true.

RANDOR · Jul 14, 2014

lforrest said:
All I know is I can't make myself afraid of God again. Call it stupidity, or over-confidence in him.

I really don't trust any message people give on God's behalf, they have to bring my attention to what God is saying. Even then I'll forget if it doesn't ring true.

If your spirit which is in you...jumps for joy as Jesus and Johns did in the womb.........I mean all goooooosebumpy and all.
Then......you will recognize another brother in Christ.

shturt678 · Jul 15, 2014

lforrest said:
All I know is I can't make myself afraid of God again. Call it stupidity, or over-confidence in him.

I really don't trust any message people give on God's behalf, they have to bring my attention to what God is saying. Even then I'll forget if it doesn't ring true.

Thank you for your response!

Surprising enough I agree with you overall, ie, I'm the disagreeable type...lol with you. I was heading toward a "fear" of our Lord where we wouldn't want to offend, let alone provoke Him into action even in today's time.

I'm a caregiver again, have to take an oxygen bottle to someone that forgot it going somewhere when I'm in the middle of doing something, med runs for others, and so on; and at times (yesterday for example) it can get frustrating. My point is that it's sure nice to have others like brother RANDOR who operates with the glass not only half full, but bubbling over to offset my running on half emty. Thank you Jesus!

Old Jack that isn't really complaining as also so thankful for goose bumps and such a great salvation.

Guestman · Jul 20, 2014

No one is saved when they are anointed with holy spirit, for the apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesians: "But you also hoped in him (Jesus Christ) after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing God’s own possession by a ransom, to his glorious praise."(Eph 1:13, 14)

Being "sealed" with the holy spirit does not guarantee a person is saved, but is the only initial step taken by our Maker, Jehovah God. This just means that the person is selected for the "heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1), but this does not mean that they will remain loyal to death.

Jesus showed that endurance is required, saying concerning his invisible "presence": "But the one who has endured to the end will be saved". Jesus then gives a work that a person has to do in order to help insure his salvation: "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."(Matt 24:13, 14) He further said: "By your endurance you will preserve your lives."(Luke 21:19)

Most who profess to be "Christian" are unwilling to share in this work, making all sorts of excuses, just as the "sluggish slave" at Matthew 25:24, 25. The "master" (who represents Jesus Christ) was not amused, but rather condemned him, telling his other slaves: "‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents (or those who willingly used his "talents" (spiritual privileges) to gain more [from privileges to people, Rom 1:13] ). For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’ "(Matt 25:28-30)

The "sluggish slave" was only willing to do "a little", but was not zealous for his "master", so he reaped his "reward". He was thrown "out into the darkness outside", outside God's favor where all the other nominal "Christians" are and suffered the penalty of the "master's" disfavor and eventual destruction.

Almost 65 years later, Jesus reaffirmed the need for endurance, telling the "angel" (representing the "older men" of the congregation) of Smyrna: "Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look ! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days (picturing their entire life, for the number "ten" means earthly completeness). Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."(Rev 2:10)

The apostle Paul wrote: "For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away ("fallen away", Greek parapesontas, meaning "to fall beside, to deviate from the right path, to fall away from the worship of Jehovah", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 485) it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame."(Heb 6:4-6)

shturt678s · Jul 23, 2014

Guestman said:
No one is saved when they are anointed with holy spirit, for the apostle Paul wrote to the Ephesians: "But you also hoped in him (Jesus Christ) after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing God’s own possession by a ransom, to his glorious praise."(Eph 1:13, 14)

Being "sealed" with the holy spirit does not guarantee a person is saved, but is the only initial step taken by our Maker, Jehovah God. This just means that the person is selected for the "heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1), but this does not mean that they will remain loyal to death.

Jesus showed that endurance is required, saying concerning his invisible "presence": "But the one who has endured to the end will be saved". Jesus then gives a work that a person has to do in order to help insure his salvation: "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."(Matt 24:13, 14) He further said: "By your endurance you will preserve your lives."(Luke 21:19)

Most who profess to be "Christian" are unwilling to share in this work, making all sorts of excuses, just as the "sluggish slave" at Matthew 25:24, 25. The "master" (who represents Jesus Christ) was not amused, but rather condemned him, telling his other slaves: "‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents (or those who willingly used his "talents" (spiritual privileges) to gain more [from privileges to people, Rom 1:13] ). For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’ "(Matt 25:28-30)

The "sluggish slave" was only willing to do "a little", but was not zealous for his "master", so he reaped his "reward". He was thrown "out into the darkness outside", outside God's favor where all the other nominal "Christians" are and suffered the penalty of the "master's" disfavor and eventual destruction.

Almost 65 years later, Jesus reaffirmed the need for endurance, telling the "angel" (representing the "older men" of the congregation) of Smyrna: "Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look ! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days (picturing their entire life, for the number "ten" means earthly completeness). Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."(Rev 2:10)

The apostle Paul wrote: "For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away ("fallen away", Greek parapesontas, meaning "to fall beside, to deviate from the right path, to fall away from the worship of Jehovah", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 485) it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame."(Heb 6:4-6)

I thank you for your response and caring...plus you have some good points!

Where we'll have to agree to disagree is at one's instant of 'faith,' one is saved even with a mustard seed of 'faith.' If that person passes before water baptism, works of faith, and etc....immediately enters heaven. Where we may agree to agree to a degree, one is "saved," "being saved," and "shall be saved."

Old Jack's opinion

RANDOR · Jul 23, 2014

shturt678s said:
I thank you for your response and caring...plus you have some good points!

Where we'll have to agree to disagree is at one's instant of 'faith,' one is saved even with a mustard seed of 'faith.' If that person passes before water baptism, works of faith, and etc....immediately enters heaven. Where we may agree to agree to a degree, one is "saved," "being saved," and "shall be saved."

Old Jack's opinion

I love bein saved.....I could go throught it every.........well............I was goin to say every 30 minutes.....then i was goin to say every week.........
but hey....
I'm still high from gettin saved 27 years ago.....

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank You Jesus! †

brakelite · Jul 25, 2014

lforrest said:
There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I believe this refers to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. But read carefully, it says, "who began" is that a foregone conclusion or a condition?

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.
James 1:12
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 10:21-22
Acts 14:22
Revelation 2:10

What is the cause of this danger?

Israel, while in the wilderness, was about as saved as they could be. God was with them every step of the way, they had His promises, His providence, His presence 24/7, yet only two of them finally entered into the promised land. Why?
One word.

Unbelief.

Theodore A. Jones · Aug 10, 2014

lforrest said:
I maintain a presence through my cell phone, if I were worried for myself I would be far more concerned than just making a post. There would be far more prayer and fasting.

I'm concerned about correct doctrine.

What doctrine is correct? What doctrine is not correct?

lforrest · Aug 10, 2014

Salvation by a single moment of faith is wrong, because of the warning against those who love and practice falsehood. Those who accept Jesus as Lord must do as he says.

Madad21 · Aug 10, 2014

lforrest said:
There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I believe this refers to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. But read carefully, it says, "who began" is that a foregone conclusion or a condition?

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.
James 1:12
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 10:21-22
Acts 14:22
Revelation 2:10

What is the cause of this danger?

the other week i was going through a real bad time with doubt and fear, i have to be honest that much of it came from a couple of the kooks we had floating around this forum at the time, i poured my heart out to God that night, I really wanted some reassurance that I was doing the right thing that God wasnt going to let me go. I must admit I got myself quite worked up and my heart was aching so bad. I felt surrounded by all this negative gospel "Your not saved unless you know this or do that or done this." my head was swooning. I think many of my brothers and sisters here feel the same way sometimes.
The next morning I opened my Bible randomly just to get some gospel into my day and the first scripture I saw was
Philippians 2:13 “for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his’
As soon as I was shown that my heart lifted and I felt a lot more confident to continue on.
God is good to us and his promise is true,he holds us in the palm of his hand and nothing can snatch us away.
Thanks iforrest good thread.

lforrest · Aug 10, 2014

The very fact that you have doubt and fear and are willing to admit it tells me God has a firm grip on you.

Enquirer · Aug 11, 2014

lforrest said:
There is a moment when the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you as a child of God. Protestants call this the moment of salvation. Is that it, or is your soul still in danger?

Philippians 1:6 "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I believe this refers to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. But read carefully, it says, "who began" is that a foregone conclusion or a condition?

Then there are these verses which pretty much say only those who endure to the end will be saved.
James 1:12
Matthew 24:13
Matthew 10:21-22
Acts 14:22
Revelation 2:10

What is the cause of this danger?

The moment we believe we are saved ... Romans 10:9 &10 says,

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The "you will be saved" does not mean that one day, sometime in the future, you will be saved, no, Paul immediately follows it up with,

"For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved".

"Is justified ... "is saved", right there and then ... I "is" justified and I "is" saved", not great English but you get the drift.

So salvation occurs when the believing one confesses Jesus Christ as Lord, then blammo it happens.
John adds the approach that by believing in his name (his name - which simply means in the person), is to "receive him".
So when did I receive him ?
When I believed in the person of Jesus Christ.
So what am I believing ?
The Gospel, the good news that Jesus Christ the sinless One, gave his pure life to God as a substitute for my rotten life.
A death God demanded I should have died.
My debt to God is now "paid in full" - tetalestai (Gk - paid in full).
In those days when you owed someone money they would nail a note on your door stating how much money you owed and when the debt was paid up
in full, they would nail another note using the word "tetalestai", paid in full.
Just before Jesus died on the cross he said "tetalestai" paid in full, and this was "nailed" over the door of every persons life debt they owed to God.
Hallelujah, we don't owe God anymore

And this debt cancellation with God happened at the very same time I accepted his gift of grace Jesus Christ by me believing in Christ and what He did
on the cross.

I definitely agree that "the good work He began in you" is the sanctifying work of the Holy spirit in our lives after believing in Christ.

Salvation is by grace through faith alone and therefore, any supposed suffering that we go through as Christians cannot be because Jesus didn't do
a complete job on the cross and now we have to make up for it by the works of suffering or enduring the world and all it throws at us.
Your verses: James 1:12, Acts 14:22.

No, if we continue steadfast through all the junk of life and don't quit it just proves that our faith in Christ is genuine and this means that our salvation
is a reality.

Theodore A. Jones · Aug 11, 2014

Enquirer said:
The moment we believe we are saved ... Romans 10:9 &10 says,

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The "you will be saved" does not mean that one day, sometime in the future, you will be saved, no, Paul immediately follows it up with,

"For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved".

"Is justified ... "is saved", right there and then ... I "is" justified and I "is" saved", not great English but you get the drift.

So salvation occurs when the believing one confesses Jesus Christ as Lord, then blammo it happens.
John adds the approach that by believing in his name (his name - which simply means in the person), is to "receive him".
So when did I receive him ?
When I believed in the person of Jesus Christ.
So what am I believing ?
The Gospel, the good news that Jesus Christ the sinless One, gave his pure life to God as a substitute for my rotten life.
A death God demanded I should have died.
My debt to God is now "paid in full" - tetalestai (Gk - paid in full).
In those days when you owed someone money they would nail a note on your door stating how much money you owed and when the debt was paid up
in full, they would nail another note using the word "tetalestai", paid in full.
Just before Jesus died on the cross he said "tetalestai" paid in full, and this was "nailed" over the door of every persons life debt they owed to God.
Hallelujah, we don't owe God anymore
And this debt cancellation with God happened at the very same time I accepted his gift of grace Jesus Christ by me believing in Christ and what He did
on the cross.

I definitely agree that "the good work He began in you" is the sanctifying work of the Holy spirit in our lives after believing in Christ.

Salvation is by grace through faith alone and therefore, any supposed suffering that we go through as Christians cannot be because Jesus didn't do
a complete job on the cross and now we have to make up for it by the works of suffering or enduring the world and all it throws at us.
Your verses: James 1:12, Acts 14:22.

No, if we continue steadfast through all the junk of life and don't quit it just proves that our faith in Christ is genuine and this means that our salvation
is a reality.

"My debt to God is now "paid in full" -tetlestai (Gk-paid in full)" if that is true why is it also true that He says that "When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin" Jn.16:8, AFTER the fact of his crucifixion? What is the basis upon which convict the world of guilt is the remaining outstanding issue? And why does Paul state that it is necessary to obey a law prior to any individual being declared righteous by God? Rom. 2:13 It seems to me that if ("tetalestai", paid in full, and this was "nailed" over the door of every person's life debt they owed to God.) is true that would make salvation universal would it not?

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