Israel will be Darkened

shturt678s said:

Thank you for your response and caring again!

Loosely speaking we agree to agree, ie, great!

First and foremost the sheep and goats are separated before our Lord's future "1" Return, ie, after each one's passing a secret and forensic judgment is rendered....public at Matt.25 at the end of time.

Thank you again,

Old Jack's opinion

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Azadok said:

Really !...... So the millions of Christians being murdered by beheading and shootings and cruxifiction the last three years does not count because they live in the middle east Africa and Asia ? O all the millions of other Christians killed in the name of Jesus throughout time do not count either .

And I guess Paul and John and James are all liars that they were in tribulation and wrote about this , which has been ongoing since Christ , we await the great tribulation which is the tribulation of Jesus , the tribulation of Satan has been ongoing since Chrsit was hung on the cross .

DO you care to cite a bible verse to back up what you wrote ?

Judgement begins at the pulpit people ......THIS IS YOUR PULPIT . So you should be 100 % sure of what you teach for if you cause a soul to loose the kingdom because of lies and bogus teachings , you will be responsible for that soul .

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[email protected] said:

Location. Location. Location.

It's all about location.

Rev 2:12-13 is quite clear about the throne of Satan upon the earth. It's in the modern nation of Turkey - the old city and province once called Pergamun (or Pergamom, or Pergamum depending upon spelling preferences). Look it up. That's the Biblical point of reference. One can't twist it or turn it any other way.

There's also the suggestion that a revived Roman Empire will somehow be in play during the End Times. Consider that the old Roman Empire, as a political institution, lasted until 1927 and you'll have to take a new view of things happening today.

In the year 465 AD, the city of Rome was sacked by the Visigoths. European history generally assumes that this was the end of Roman political influence and goes on with local wars and squabbling after that. Except that the interpretation is very wrong. Roman political existence continued in the east, in the city of Constantinople.

Nearly one hundred years before the fall of Rome as a political capital, the Empire was divided in two. Economic reasons were in play and the eastern empire was ruled from Byzantium - later renamed Constantinople by the Roman emperor who converted to Christ as a result of a military victory. Rome fell, but Constantinople continued as a Roman/Latin entity for nearly another thousand years until it was conquered by Mehmed II, leader of the Ottoman Turks/Muslims in 1453. (*)

The period called the middle ages spans the time from the fall of Rome to the fall of Latinized Constantinople.

But the political influence, the bureaucratic operation, of Constantinople - by then known also known as Istanbul - continued. It was a bastion of the Muslim Ottoman Turks for many years, gradually shrinking in influence until it collapsed with the defeat of the European Central Powers in World War I. In 1927, the modern state of Turkey was established with its capital in Ankara. But to this day Muslims hope for the revived caliphate of the old Ottoman Empire - THE SAME political entity that Europeans once called the Roman Empire. In fact, Turkish PM Ergodan has been moving from a political position once friendly to the west to one more in line with Muslim extremists.

"There is no such thing as moderate Islam. There is only Islam."
- Recep Tayip Erdogan

How strange then, that the Bible declares the seat of satanic power to be the modern nation which IS ALSO hoping to revive the old Roman Empire/Ottoman Caliphate and conquer the world for Islam.

To the reader I issue this caution; WATCH TURKEY.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) The fall of Constantinople to the Muslim Ottoman Turks also led DIRECTLY to the discovery of the new world - America.
Prior to that time, trade with nations of the east including China continued along a long land route called THE SILK ROAD. Google it.
When Constantinople fell to the Ottomans, the western terminus of the silk road ended. As a result, European traders began to look for another way AROUND THE MUSLIM EMPIRE. This search for new trade routes led to the discovery of the Americas BARELY 40 years later in 1492.

WATCH TURKEY

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Azadok said:

How does the verses you cite have any bearing on a timeline for the tribulation , the verses simply speak of the judgement but not the timeline of the tribulation , my question was to provide scripture with regards to when the tribulation begins .

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Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Eric.


No, He won't! There's NO SUCH THING as a "permanent solar eclipse!" Yesha`yahu (Isaiah) is not talking about that! He is talking about an OVERCAST SKY when that PARTICULAR "day of the LORD" came. You need to look at the WHOLE prophecy! Consider just expanding the view to that of the whole of chapter 13:

Isaiah 13:1-22
1 An oracle concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:
2 Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,
shout to them;
beckon to them
to enter the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my holy ones;
I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath —
those who rejoice in my triumph.
4 Listen, a noise on the mountains,
like that of a great multitude!
Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
like nations massing together!
The LORD Almighty is mustering
an army for war.
5 They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens —
the LORD and the weapons of his wrath —
to destroy the whole country.
6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
7 Because of this, all hands will go limp,
every man's heart will melt.
8 Terror will seize them,
pain and anguish will grip them;
they will writhe like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at each other,
their faces aflame.
9 See, the day of the LORD is coming—
a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger —
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the LORD Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.
14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
each will return to his own people,
each will flee to his native land.
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.
17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.
18 Their bows will strike down the young men;
they will have no mercy on infants
nor will they look with compassion on children.
19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the glory of the Babylonians' pride,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
no Arab will pitch his tent there,
no shepherd will rest his flocks there.
21 But desert creatures will lie there,
jackals will fill her houses;
there the owls will dwell,
and there the wild goats will leap about.
22 Hyenas will howl in her strongholds,
jackals in her luxurious palaces.
Her time is at hand,
and her days will not be prolonged.
NIV

Learn to LOOK at the context of the verses you're using.

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