Pre Tribulation rapture

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Eric E Stahl

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[SIZE=16pt]Pre Tribulation rapture [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The bride, the lamb’s wife, which is the church, is in the new Jerusalem before the last half of the tribulation begins and the seven last vials of plagues are poured out. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Revelation 21:9-11[/SIZE]
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
 

UppsalaDragby

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Eric E Stahl said:
[SIZE=16pt]Pre Tribulation rapture [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The bride, the lamb’s wife, which is the church, is in the new Jerusalem before the last half of the tribulation begins and the seven last vials of plagues are poured out. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Revelation 21:9-11[/SIZE]
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
I am not sure I follow you Eric. How do you pinpoint these events as occurring "before the last half of the tribulation begins"?
 

shturt678s

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John S said:
The Pre-Trib Rapture will NOT happen.
Brother John we have to quit agreeing to agree so much...others may think we're brothers in Christ with brother RANDOR.

Brother RANDOR....a Boy Scout is always 'prepared,' we don't want you to be "left behind."

Old Jack
 

This Vale Of Tears

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Eric E Stahl said:
[SIZE=16pt]Pre Tribulation rapture [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The bride, the lamb’s wife, which is the church, is in the new Jerusalem before the last half of the tribulation begins and the seven last vials of plagues are poured out. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Revelation 21:9-11[/SIZE]
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Pretribbers often fail to distinguish the Great Tribulation from the Bowls of Wrath. They conflate the two even though the Bible prophesies them as separate events. They preach 1Thessalonians 5:9 as if to inform the rest of us that tribulation=wrath and therefore Christians will be whisked away Star Trek style before the tribulations commence.

Besides which, you're describing the Mid-Trib position, the view that the Church will be raptured in the middle of the tribulation before the greater tribulation begins.

So like everyone else on this thread, I'm confused by the OP.
 

Eric E Stahl

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UppsalaDragby said:
I am not sure I follow you Eric. How do you pinpoint these events as occurring "before the last half of the tribulation begins"?
UppsalaDragby,

[SIZE=12pt](When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]


Revelation 11:3,7,11-14
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

[SIZE=12pt](When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](The third woe will be the devil cast to the earth where he will persecute Israel for a time, times and half a time or the last 3.5 years of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]

Revelation 12:12b-14
12b [SIZE=14pt]Woe [/SIZE]to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
 

RANDOR

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Left behind?.............I'm gettin in line now......I mean people pull all nighters for the doors to open for the after Christmas sales....I will be pullin all nighters for Christs door to open.
Hey!...no pushin!
 

This Vale Of Tears

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RANDOR said:
Left behind?.............I'm gettin in line now......I mean people pull all nighters for the doors to open for the after Christmas sales....I will be pullin all nighters for Christs door to open.
Hey!...no pushin!
Well since you won't be needing money or material possessions where you're going, you can leave it to people who will be left behind. Me in particular. PM me and we'll exchange financial information so you can leave knowing you helped one of the poor doomed souls that got himself left behind.
 

Eric E Stahl

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RANDOR said:
Pre trib...post trib...past trib...etc etc....I'm just ready....however it takes place. :)
Ezekiel 47:6-10
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
 

RANDOR

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Look.....I know all there is to know about tribs.....trust me.....but in these latter years....it just doesn't seem that important to me.....
Because who really knows.....I know what i know...but I will say what I know and then someone comes along and says that's not the way I see it.
Soooooooooooooo it has nothing to do with anything....just as long as we are ready for what ever God decides to do, how He decides and especially when He decides to do it....Post trib be ready for that....pre trib be ready for that....or it may be some trib we have over looked...be ready for that.

My brothers in Christ.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Revelation 21 is after the Millennium! So the whole of the one 'seven' has been over for over a thousand years!

So how does this verse even prove the Elect are gathered up before the Great Tribulation? It doesn't. Thanks for sharing.
 

n2thelight

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Eric E Stahl said:
UppsalaDragby,

[SIZE=12pt](When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]


Revelation 11:3,7,11-14
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

[SIZE=12pt](When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](The third woe will be the devil cast to the earth where he will persecute Israel for a time, times and half a time or the last 3.5 years of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]

Revelation 12:12b-14
12b [SIZE=14pt]Woe [/SIZE]to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

I think you timing is off,Christ returns 3 1/2 days after the two witneses are killed......

Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Within the hour, the earthquake that is going to split the mount of Olives will take place. A way, or path will be made for Christ's children to make it back to Him.

Why would God kill 7000 men at this moment? Those are the angels of Satan will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed.
The "remnant" that is of God's election will give glory to God because it is over. The tribulation, the testing, these flesh bodies, and this earth age of the flesh will be over. Friend, this is not something that is centuries into the future, but in a matter of a few years. We are living in this final generation.


Revelation 11:14 "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

Remember that the first woe was the coming to earth of Satan, also called "Abaddon" in the Hebrew, and "Apollyon" in the Greek, with all his locust army to seduce the entire earth. This is what was taught in chapter nine. The first woe ended with their massive appearance on the earth that would cause the peoples of the earth to worship Satan as the Christ.

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the seventh and final trumpet, from the time that the two witnesses stand to their feet, we are dealing in seconds, and minutes for it all to occur. The third woe comes with the seventh trumpet. All prophecy in the entire Bible dealing with the seventh, and last trumpet happens instantly at this time.

 

UppsalaDragby

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Eric E Stahl said:
UppsalaDragby,

[SIZE=12pt](When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]


Revelation 11:3,7,11-14
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

[SIZE=12pt](When the 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is finished the second woe is past. That will be the mid point of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](The third woe will be the devil cast to the earth where he will persecute Israel for a time, times and half a time or the last 3.5 years of the tribulation.)[/SIZE]

Revelation 12:12b-14
12b [SIZE=14pt]Woe [/SIZE]to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Ok, but that's still a little confusing to me because it doesn't answer the question I asked. (Take not that I'm not disagreeing with you, just looking for some clarification, because I find this topic incredibly confusing). The problem I'm having is, just as Marcus O'Reillius pointed out, Revelation 21 seems to describe events that occur after the tribulation. The fact that there are three woes and a midpoint to the tribulation doesn't seem to address that.

Vale of Tears also made the point that what you seem to be advocating is a mid-trib rapture, despite the title of the thread. What is your position concerning that?
 

Eric E Stahl

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Revelation 21 is after the Millennium! So the whole of the one 'seven' has been over for over a thousand years!

So how does this verse even prove the Elect are gathered up before the Great Tribulation? It doesn't. Thanks for sharing.
Revelation 21:1-8 are after the 1000 year kingdom age. Revelation 21:9-27 are before the 1000 year kingdom age.

UppsalaDragby said:
Ok, but that's still a little confusing to me because it doesn't answer the question I asked. (Take not that I'm not disagreeing with you, just looking for some clarification, because I find this topic incredibly confusing). The problem I'm having is, just as Marcus O'Reillius pointed out, Revelation 21 seems to describe events that occur after the tribulation. The fact that there are three woes and a midpoint to the tribulation doesn't seem to address that.

Vale of Tears also made the point that what you seem to be advocating is a mid-trib rapture, despite the title of the thread. What is your position concerning that?
The Five Phases of the First Resurrection

(1) Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Ephesians 4:8 KJV

(2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are caught up to heaven before the antichrist Is given power by God. 2Thessalonians 2:3-12 KJV,


(3) The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation 11:3,7-14 KJV, the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7 who where redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-4 KJV, and the redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. See Revelation 15:1-4 KJV

(4) The dead saints from the last half of the tribulation are redeemed from the earth after the tribulation. Revelation 20:4 KJV


(5) The dead saints from the Kingdom age will be judged at the great white throne judgment along with the second resurrection sinners. Revelation 20:11-15 KJV



Ephesians 4:8-10
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

I believe these verses indicate that Jesus took the Old Testament saints to heaven when he went back.

n2thelight said:
I think you timing is off,Christ returns 3 1/2 days after the two witneses are killed......

Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Within the hour, the earthquake that is going to split the mount of Olives will take place. A way, or path will be made for Christ's children to make it back to Him.

Why would God kill 7000 men at this moment? Those are the angels of Satan will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed.
The "remnant" that is of God's election will give glory to God because it is over. The tribulation, the testing, these flesh bodies, and this earth age of the flesh will be over. Friend, this is not something that is centuries into the future, but in a matter of a few years. We are living in this final generation.


Revelation 11:14 "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

Remember that the first woe was the coming to earth of Satan, also called "Abaddon" in the Hebrew, and "Apollyon" in the Greek, with all his locust army to seduce the entire earth. This is what was taught in chapter nine. The first woe ended with their massive appearance on the earth that would cause the peoples of the earth to worship Satan as the Christ.

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the seventh and final trumpet, from the time that the two witnesses stand to their feet, we are dealing in seconds, and minutes for it all to occur. The third woe comes with the seventh trumpet. All prophecy in the entire Bible dealing with the seventh, and last trumpet happens instantly at this time.

[SIZE=18pt]Mid trib fleeing of Israel [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Zechariah 14:1-5
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.


(((At the middle of the tribulation the Lord will come down to help Israel escape the armies of antichrist which are under the control of the devil who has been cast to the earth)))[/SIZE]


3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Revelation 12:13-16
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


((When the army of antichrist follows Israel down the valley, the mountain will close and swallow the army as the Red Sea swallowed the army of Eygpt))

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

((When the lamb (Lord) comes to Israel she will flee to the river ford on the Arnon River which is 1/3 of the way south on the Jordan side of the Dead Sea.))

Isaiah 16:1-5
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
 

shturt678s

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Rev.21:9, etc. Thank you folks for caring! Here we see the whore increasing her following before the Parousia; the Bride is shown after the future "1" Parousia...Return of the Godman Christ.

Old Jack's opinion
 

keras

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Here is a plain and easy to understand verse:
And NO MAN has ASCENDED up to heaven, except for He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13
BELIEVE what Christ said, He should know. He was in heaven with the Father from the beginning, and He did not see any human ever come from earth up to heaven. It’s indisputable, Enoch could not have gone to the third heaven, neither did Moses, nor did Elijah. All humans who have ever lived, or will live, up to the Return of Jesus and are not still alive when Jesus comes, will sleep in death. They will be in the grave, and the righteous, those accounted worthy, wait to hear the voice of the Son of man, to rise from the dead in a resurrection. Then, for a thousand years they shall reign with Christ on His throne over this earth, as they establish the Kingdom of God on earth.
At the end of the thousand years comes the new heavens and the new earth. Then the heavenly Jerusalem together with God the Father will come from heaven to this new earth, which will then become the dwelling place of the throne of the universe for all Eternity.

What we can say is that we, the children of God, will one day be in heaven.....yes.....when heaven comes to earth.
But what we can't say is that any human will be removed from the earth and taken to heaven to avoid the wrath to come. Yes, those who 'make Him their refuge', will be protected. Nahum 1:1-8
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Eric E Stahl said:
Revelation 21:1-8 are after the 1000 year kingdom age. Revelation 21:9-27 are before the 1000 year kingdom age.
Ah, no, you are incorrect.

In 21:1, John has a vision of the New Heavens and New Earth. When that vision is completed, one of the Angels standing there shows him something more about that time period.

The city laid out in Rev 21:10-27 is 1500 miles by 1500 miles by 1500 miles!

This just happens to mirror the dimensions of the original tent of meeting Most Holy Place. Think about it...

Now Eric, let me give you a little lesson in this old earth's physics. Under God's Laws of Creation, air compresses. So we enjoy breathable air up to around 2 1/2 miles. Above that, you need to supplement your oxygen because the partial pressure will not supply enough oxygen for your brain to function. At 5 miles, you go hypoxic in as little as 30 seconds, pass out, and die.

This structure exceeds that by 1,495 miles.

So the city in verses 21:9-27 are NOT before the Millennium Age, but are part of the New Heavens and New Earth.

You may now review your thinking if you are not locked into your mindset and revamp your assertions.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Marcus.

Marcus O'Reillius said:
Ah, no, you are incorrect.

In 21:1, John has a vision of the New Heavens and New Earth. When that vision is completed, one of the Angels standing there shows him something more about that time period.

The city laid out in Rev 21:10-27 is 1500 miles by 1500 miles by 1500 miles!

This just happens to mirror the dimensions of the original tent of meeting Most Holy Place. Think about it...

Now Eric, let me give you a little lesson in this old earth's physics. Under God's Laws of Creation, air compresses. So we enjoy breathable air up to around 2 1/2 miles. Above that, you need to supplement your oxygen because the partial pressure will not supply enough oxygen for your brain to function. At 5 miles, you go hypoxic in as little as 30 seconds, pass out, and die.

This structure exceeds that by 1,495 miles.

So the city in verses 21:9-27 are NOT before the Millennium Age, but are part of the New Heavens and New Earth.

You may now review your thinking if you are not locked into your mindset and revamp your assertions.
And now, YOU'VE forgotten some information that is given in the Scriptures!

Revelation 21:10-20
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
KJV


Many erroneously think this city is cubical in shape. However, the city CANNOT be cubical because we are told that it LANDS upon the New Earth; it is 1,500 miles long, wide, and high; and that this distance covers 1,500 miles / 24,902 miles x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees of the earth's circumference! This much of an angle would TOTALLY throw off the cubical shape, making the bottom too large for the top or the top of the city too small for the bottom, depending on whether the top or the bottom of the city is this 1,500-mile distance!

The better shape is the pyramidal shape. It still fits the information because verse 16's phrase "the city lieth foursquare" (Greek: "hee polis tetragoonos keitai" = "the city four-angled lies-outstretched") is talking about the FOOTPRINT of the city, NOT the 3-D shape of the city. The pyramid still has to cope with the 21.685-degree angle, but it handles it MUCH easier! The four walls are simply four triangles that meet at a point 1,500 miles high!

So, notice this: According to verse 11, the city LOOKED like a huge "jasper" stone (NOT "diamond," by the way, but rather "red" like the red flecks in the bloodstone called "jasper!"); according to verse 18, the wall was constructed of "jasper"; and according to verse 19, the first foundation was of "jasper!" The entire city is ENCASED in "jasper!" The implication is simply that one cannot get into the city without going through the blood!

Thus, the "foundations of the wall" are foundational LEVELS to the city, with each LEVEL being the foundation for the next section of this "jasper" wall! This means that the city is DIVIDED into twelve sections such that each section HAS ITS OWN ATMOSPHERE! This is a three-dimensional city, and we just need to quit thinking two-dimensionally! The city's buildings, too, could contain their own pressurized air. If they can do that for jets and airplanes today, why not for super high-rises in the future?

(By the way, the 144 cubits or 72 yards is the THICKNESS of the wall, at the gates, NOT the height of the wall that was called "great and high" compared to a 1,500-mile high city!)
 

Trekson

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Jul 24, 2012
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Hi Retro, Your words:"Many erroneously think this city is cubical in shape. However, the city CANNOT be cubical because we are told that it LANDS upon the New Earth;"

Where exactly does it say it "lands" on the earth?