well said.
Christianity is not about entertainment.
I don't see anything edifying about what Pentecostals are practicing.
It is just circus to me.
SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT?
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Christianity is not about entertainment.
I don't see anything edifying about what Pentecostals are practicing.
It is just circus to me.
I've seen it close up. It's frightening.Joyful said:
I'm just about positive that these people really are being manipulated by some spirit...but it is definitely NOT the Holy Spirit.
Many times it has happened to me, I never knew it was called being slain the spirit tho, all i have ever knew it as, is getting hit by the power of the holy spirit, of course the holy spirit can hit people in many other ways, this is just one of them. 
Coming from a Pentecostal background, I have also had this experience a number of times. Although I am sure there are those who are able to manipulate such experiences, not all of it is smoke and mirrors or performed by unscrupulous snake charmers. How can believers judge something they have never ever experienced? :huh: It is awesome and life changing. In some cases, the Holy Spirit is imparting the believer with power for ministry ahead. Some times the Holy Spirit is dealing with an issue in someones life and there are times when the Holy Spirit is ministering healing. In some cases this may be the first time an individual has ever encountered the Holy Spirit's power [Baptism]. These are only a few instances where the Holy Spirit may be ministering to individuals within a corporate setting [Church]. The power of the Holy Spirit is poured out upon individuals according to the will of God and sometimes they are swept off their feet.Josho said:Many times it has happened to me, I never knew it was called being slain the spirit tho, all i have ever knew it as, is getting hit by the power of the holy spirit, of course the holy spirit can hit people in many other ways, this is just one of them.
Blessings!
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The Holy Spirit is always welcomed in my life... As it was in the life of John Wesley...
It was after a difficult and discouraging mission trip to America that John Wesley questioned his faith. In 1738, at the age of 34, John Wesley attended an evening worship service in London which moved him deeply. “In the evening I went very unwillingly to a society in Aldersgate Street, where one was reading Luther's preface to the Epistle to the Romans. About a quarter before nine, while the leader was describing the change which God works in the heart through faith in Christ, I felt my heart strangely warmed. I felt I did trust in Christ alone for salvation; and an assurance was given me that He had taken away my sins, even mine, and saved me from the law of sin and death.” – John Wesley
For the next year Wesley would continue to seek the Lord until spiritual experiences would happen as stated in Wesley’s journal from Jan. 1, 1739: “About sixty of our brethren until three in the morning, the power of God came mightily on us, insomuch that many cried out for exceeding joy, and many fell to the ground.” John Wesley prayed, “Lord send us revival without its defects but if this is not possible, send revival, defects and all.”
It was after a difficult and discouraging mission trip to America that John Wesley questioned his faith. In 1738, at the age of 34, John Wesley attended an evening worship service in London which moved him deeply. “In the evening I went very unwillingly to a society in Aldersgate Street, where one was reading Luther's preface to the Epistle to the Romans. About a quarter before nine, while the leader was describing the change which God works in the heart through faith in Christ, I felt my heart strangely warmed. I felt I did trust in Christ alone for salvation; and an assurance was given me that He had taken away my sins, even mine, and saved me from the law of sin and death.” – John Wesley
For the next year Wesley would continue to seek the Lord until spiritual experiences would happen as stated in Wesley’s journal from Jan. 1, 1739: “About sixty of our brethren until three in the morning, the power of God came mightily on us, insomuch that many cried out for exceeding joy, and many fell to the ground.” John Wesley prayed, “Lord send us revival without its defects but if this is not possible, send revival, defects and all.”
[SIZE=12pt]Hi Josho and Angelina,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]A believer can judge an experience by seeing if it goes against the bible. This is the best way. As I stated above slain in the spirit and drunk in the spirit are completely against what the bible says is the fruit of the Spirit, that is the real Holy Spirit. If an experience is not scriptural but against scripture don't you think you should abandone it?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins,” (2 Peter 1:3-9). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]This is saying someone who doesn’t have self control is nearsighted and blind.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Why is this? Because when saved a person becomes part of Christ’s body, they are no longer their own, but Christ’s for His purposes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies” (1 Co. 6:19-20).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control," (Galatians 5:22-23). Slain in the spirit is the opposite of self control.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,[/SIZE] 9holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict,” (Titus 1:8).
[SIZE=12pt]“An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent…(1 Ti 3:2). Leaders have requirements that are to be the examples to the rest of the flock. Temperate is again self control.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Pe. 1:13). Sober in your spirit is by aligning with the true Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] “[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified” (1 Co 9:24-27).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Pe 5:8).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds” (2 Co. 11:14).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]How could Eve have been deceived when she had everything. Satan had to be seen as something more wonderful, more convincing than the truth of God, than God himself who walked with her.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]There are false spirits that convincingly appear as Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. I earnestly hope you will test the experience against the bible to see if they are false because I believe God is allowing a great deception today because believers have turned from God to self (psychology and the all about me generation being a big entrance).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]4 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]5 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I would assume that preachers of this drunk in spirit concept try to justify by using this verse but let’s look at what it actually says:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;…” (Eph. 5:17-18).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Being filled with the Spirit is related to singing psalms, hymns, spiritual songs. It is not related to falling, acting uncontrollably, wild laughing, randomly running around as if out of ones mind. The verse does not say be drunk in the Spirit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]All examples in the bible of falling as you say slain in the spirit is are related to the demon possessed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Since my post is long I won’t put them here unless you ask which in that case I will gladly do.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]A believer can judge an experience by seeing if it goes against the bible. This is the best way. As I stated above slain in the spirit and drunk in the spirit are completely against what the bible says is the fruit of the Spirit, that is the real Holy Spirit. If an experience is not scriptural but against scripture don't you think you should abandone it?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins,” (2 Peter 1:3-9). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]This is saying someone who doesn’t have self control is nearsighted and blind.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Why is this? Because when saved a person becomes part of Christ’s body, they are no longer their own, but Christ’s for His purposes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies” (1 Co. 6:19-20).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control," (Galatians 5:22-23). Slain in the spirit is the opposite of self control.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,[/SIZE] 9holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict,” (Titus 1:8).
[SIZE=12pt]“An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent…(1 Ti 3:2). Leaders have requirements that are to be the examples to the rest of the flock. Temperate is again self control.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Pe. 1:13). Sober in your spirit is by aligning with the true Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] “[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified” (1 Co 9:24-27).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Pe 5:8).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds” (2 Co. 11:14).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]How could Eve have been deceived when she had everything. Satan had to be seen as something more wonderful, more convincing than the truth of God, than God himself who walked with her.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]There are false spirits that convincingly appear as Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. I earnestly hope you will test the experience against the bible to see if they are false because I believe God is allowing a great deception today because believers have turned from God to self (psychology and the all about me generation being a big entrance).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]4 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]5 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I would assume that preachers of this drunk in spirit concept try to justify by using this verse but let’s look at what it actually says:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]“So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;…” (Eph. 5:17-18).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Being filled with the Spirit is related to singing psalms, hymns, spiritual songs. It is not related to falling, acting uncontrollably, wild laughing, randomly running around as if out of ones mind. The verse does not say be drunk in the Spirit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]All examples in the bible of falling as you say slain in the spirit is are related to the demon possessed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Since my post is long I won’t put them here unless you ask which in that case I will gladly do.[/SIZE]
There are numerous references in the Bible, literally from Genesis to Revelation, dealing with prophets, priests, and others falling on to their faces in experiencing the power and glory of the Lord. To me, to discount every single instance of this is going too far. Charlatans abound, but why should we not be put on our feet by the strength and power of the Almighty?
King David even stripped down and danced at least almost naked (2 Samuel 6:14-16). There are also clearly moments where one can be taken with the power and joy that only God provides.
King David even stripped down and danced at least almost naked (2 Samuel 6:14-16). There are also clearly moments where one can be taken with the power and joy that only God provides.
Hi Oliver,
[SIZE=12pt]Galatians 5:19-20 gives us a list of some of the works of the flesh which are "adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [/SIZE]21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" [Note: drunkenness is referring to the over indulgence of wine]
[SIZE=12pt]Galatians 5:22-25 gives us a list of the fruit of the Spirit which "is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The writer in both passages is not referring to the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in individual lives but rather the works of the flesh which is contrary to the fruit of the Spirit produced when one becomes a born again believer in Christ. Here is an example ~ John the Baptist addresses the Pharisees and Sadducees when they came to the Jordon to be baptized by him.[/SIZE]
Matthew 3
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit officially began during the day of Pentecost when 120 or so believers who were in one accord, gathered in one place. Acts 2:1-4. Before that time, God spoke to men directly and the Holy Spirit was only imparted on a few as God saw fit. The Holy Spirit's timing was in conjunction with Jesus death, resurrection and his glorification at the right hand of God as the eternal great high priest forever. Hebrews 4:15, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 8:1, Hebrews 9:11
John 7
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
There is no biblical reference that states that God has ceased pouring out the Holy Spirit's power in this manner.
PS: I would not personally determine the work of the Holy Spirit ie: [Slain in the Spirit] based on manifestations but rather the outcome of a changed life in Christ.
Blessings and Peace!
[SIZE=12pt]The fruit of the Spirit you are referring to is the product of a repentant heart. It is in complete opposition to the works of the flesh and/or the former deeds done while darkness ie: fornication, uncleanness, filthiness, foolish talk and coarse jesting. Ephesians 5:3-7. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Galatians 5:19-20 gives us a list of some of the works of the flesh which are "adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [/SIZE]21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;" [Note: drunkenness is referring to the over indulgence of wine]
[SIZE=12pt]Galatians 5:22-25 gives us a list of the fruit of the Spirit which "is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The writer in both passages is not referring to the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in individual lives but rather the works of the flesh which is contrary to the fruit of the Spirit produced when one becomes a born again believer in Christ. Here is an example ~ John the Baptist addresses the Pharisees and Sadducees when they came to the Jordon to be baptized by him.[/SIZE]
Matthew 3
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit officially began during the day of Pentecost when 120 or so believers who were in one accord, gathered in one place. Acts 2:1-4. Before that time, God spoke to men directly and the Holy Spirit was only imparted on a few as God saw fit. The Holy Spirit's timing was in conjunction with Jesus death, resurrection and his glorification at the right hand of God as the eternal great high priest forever. Hebrews 4:15, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 8:1, Hebrews 9:11
John 7
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
There is no biblical reference that states that God has ceased pouring out the Holy Spirit's power in this manner.
PS: I would not personally determine the work of the Holy Spirit ie: [Slain in the Spirit] based on manifestations but rather the outcome of a changed life in Christ.
Blessings and Peace!
Hi Angelina,
The verses I used in Galatians are talking about the fruit of the Spirit (what the Spirit produces including self control) verses scripture that talks about what the flesh produces. Being slain in the Spirit is against self control. It doesn't matter that it is not mentioned as one of the acts of the flesh since self control is still the fruit of the true Spirit of God. Do you admit that being slain in the spirit and drunk in the spirit is against self control or don't you?
I fully believe and do experience the Holy Spirit working today. However, every outpouring of the Holy Spirit is of a sound mind (that is Christ's mind ) and is power of clarity and control, not an expression of randomness as the slain/drunk behavior is.
"For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline" (2 Ti 1:7). Again, self control is emphasized.
I would love to go over each of the verses I gave you one at a time if you would like. I am short on time so right now I am going to copy over something I wrote on another thread because I think it is important to this discussion.
Regarding people falling back (often called slain in the spirit)
There aren't any bible passages showing people falling when Jesus healed them except for demonic possession so be glad your congregation isn't falling.
"And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs. 28Seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and said in a loud voice, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me." 29For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times" (Luke 8:28).
"When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15“Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17“You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment" (Matt 17:14-18) (In this case the demon is causing the child to fall into the fire and water).
" One of the men in the crowd spoke up and said, “Teacher, I brought my son so you could heal him. He is possessed by an evil spirit that won’t let him talk. 18 And whenever this spirit seizes him, it throws him violently to the ground." (Mark 9:17-18).
Then upon Jesus healing him he lifted him up. (He didn't fall during the healing but was already on the ground because of the demon).
"Jesus took him by the hand and helped him to his feet, and he stood up" (Mark 9:27).
Angelina, the fruit is the fruit so in the case of Galatians the context doesn't matter because the fruit is the same for all contexts. God does not change. His nature always stays the same.
And yes, God has told me this is not of Him.
The verses I used in Galatians are talking about the fruit of the Spirit (what the Spirit produces including self control) verses scripture that talks about what the flesh produces. Being slain in the Spirit is against self control. It doesn't matter that it is not mentioned as one of the acts of the flesh since self control is still the fruit of the true Spirit of God. Do you admit that being slain in the spirit and drunk in the spirit is against self control or don't you?
I fully believe and do experience the Holy Spirit working today. However, every outpouring of the Holy Spirit is of a sound mind (that is Christ's mind ) and is power of clarity and control, not an expression of randomness as the slain/drunk behavior is.
"For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline" (2 Ti 1:7). Again, self control is emphasized.
I would love to go over each of the verses I gave you one at a time if you would like. I am short on time so right now I am going to copy over something I wrote on another thread because I think it is important to this discussion.
Regarding people falling back (often called slain in the spirit)
There aren't any bible passages showing people falling when Jesus healed them except for demonic possession so be glad your congregation isn't falling.
"And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs. 28Seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and said in a loud voice, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me." 29For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times" (Luke 8:28).
"When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15“Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17“You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment" (Matt 17:14-18) (In this case the demon is causing the child to fall into the fire and water).
" One of the men in the crowd spoke up and said, “Teacher, I brought my son so you could heal him. He is possessed by an evil spirit that won’t let him talk. 18 And whenever this spirit seizes him, it throws him violently to the ground." (Mark 9:17-18).
Then upon Jesus healing him he lifted him up. (He didn't fall during the healing but was already on the ground because of the demon).
"Jesus took him by the hand and helped him to his feet, and he stood up" (Mark 9:27).
Angelina, the fruit is the fruit so in the case of Galatians the context doesn't matter because the fruit is the same for all contexts. God does not change. His nature always stays the same.
And yes, God has told me this is not of Him.
Hi Oliver,
2 Timothy 3 says ~
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
2 Peter 1
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
You are basically stating that something that is of the Holy Spirit is not of the Holy Spirit which is a dangerous position to be in. This understanding of yours is solely based on someone who has never experienced such an outpouring personally.
Shalom
Being slain in the Spirit is the manifestation of the Holy Spirits power being imparted on individuals usually displayed in a corporate setting. It has nothing to do with the Fruit vs Flesh analogy which you are trying to make fit here. Self control that the bible speaks of in Gal 5:23 is about "controlling ones fleshly desires" ie: Ephesians 2:1, 2, 3, 1 Corinthians 7:5, 1 Corinthians 7:9,
2 Timothy 3 says ~
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
2 Peter 1
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
You are basically stating that something that is of the Holy Spirit is not of the Holy Spirit which is a dangerous position to be in. This understanding of yours is solely based on someone who has never experienced such an outpouring personally.
Shalom
Hi Olivia
I believe this has nothing to do with self control, I believe when the Bible talks about Self control, it means being able to resist temptations of this world, and not doing things in excess. For example gluttony, if we had no self control and ate more than we can than we will suffer later on the toilet, another example peer pressure, one of your friends may try to pressure you into doing something that you know is wrong, when you say no, that is exercising Self Control.
This is just based on experiences, but as i said on another post, when the Holy Spirit hits, it hits, the Holy Spirit is powerful, it's uncontrollable. Usually when i get hit with the Holy Spirit, i get the joy of the Lord, no not any normal joy, not the kind of joy you get from laughing when you hear a joke, and when this joy hits, I get an uncontrollable smile, sometimes it lasts for 30 seconds - 1 minute, sometimes it lasts for 5-10 minutes, when i get this smile, i cannot stop smiling by my own strength, this joy comes from the Holy Spirit and not from the earth. When my mum gets hit by the Holy Spirit, she sometimes hops, she sometimes cries, she sometimes prays in tongues, when my dad gets hit, he starts ho-ing like Santa Clause and he often receives a word from God. One time i really felt the power go through me and my hands started shaking, it was not scary, it was not terrifying, I knew what it was, it was the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has the power to bring happiness, it has the power to convict, it has the power to bring healing, it has the power to cast out demons, it has the power to bring peace, it has the power to break any addiction and set people free.
I believe this has nothing to do with self control, I believe when the Bible talks about Self control, it means being able to resist temptations of this world, and not doing things in excess. For example gluttony, if we had no self control and ate more than we can than we will suffer later on the toilet, another example peer pressure, one of your friends may try to pressure you into doing something that you know is wrong, when you say no, that is exercising Self Control.
This is just based on experiences, but as i said on another post, when the Holy Spirit hits, it hits, the Holy Spirit is powerful, it's uncontrollable. Usually when i get hit with the Holy Spirit, i get the joy of the Lord, no not any normal joy, not the kind of joy you get from laughing when you hear a joke, and when this joy hits, I get an uncontrollable smile, sometimes it lasts for 30 seconds - 1 minute, sometimes it lasts for 5-10 minutes, when i get this smile, i cannot stop smiling by my own strength, this joy comes from the Holy Spirit and not from the earth. When my mum gets hit by the Holy Spirit, she sometimes hops, she sometimes cries, she sometimes prays in tongues, when my dad gets hit, he starts ho-ing like Santa Clause and he often receives a word from God. One time i really felt the power go through me and my hands started shaking, it was not scary, it was not terrifying, I knew what it was, it was the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has the power to bring happiness, it has the power to convict, it has the power to bring healing, it has the power to cast out demons, it has the power to bring peace, it has the power to break any addiction and set people free.
- Dec 31, 2010
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I have seen people get drunk in the Spirit where all you could get out of them was a sweet little laugh!
Are there any examples of Jesus or the Apostles practicing these "manifestations of the spirit"?
Was Jesus ever overcome with "holy laughter"?
Were the apostles ever stumbling around, "drunk in the spirit"?
Did any of them ever "slay" anyone "in the spirit"?
I can see it all now...Jesus touches someone on the forehead, and they fall backwards into the waiting arms of James and John, while Paul waits with a pile of blankets...
Jesus tries to speak to the people, but He can't finish a sentence, because He is overwhelmed with mirth....
People bring their sick to Jesus to be healed...but He and the apostles are all too drunk to stand up straight...
Uh...no.
Actually, there is one place in the Bible where Jesus speaks to some people, and they fall over backwards:
Joh 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Joh 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Was Jesus ever overcome with "holy laughter"?
Were the apostles ever stumbling around, "drunk in the spirit"?
Did any of them ever "slay" anyone "in the spirit"?
I can see it all now...Jesus touches someone on the forehead, and they fall backwards into the waiting arms of James and John, while Paul waits with a pile of blankets...
Jesus tries to speak to the people, but He can't finish a sentence, because He is overwhelmed with mirth....
People bring their sick to Jesus to be healed...but He and the apostles are all too drunk to stand up straight...
Uh...no.
Actually, there is one place in the Bible where Jesus speaks to some people, and they fall over backwards:
Joh 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Joh 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Acts 2:3-4
And tongues, like flames of fire that were divided, appeared to them and rested on each one of them. Then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different languages, as the Spirit gave them ability for speech.
Prompting Peter to include this:
Acts 2:15
For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it’s only nine in the morning.
Acts 3:7-8
Then, taking him by the right hand he raised him up, and at once his feet and ankles became strong. So he jumped up, stood, and started to walk, and he entered the temple complex with them—walking, leaping, and praising God.
Acts 7:55-56
But Stephen, filled by the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven. He saw God’s glory, with Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
All of these events would easily lead to the common rejoinder of intoxication or influence. That's not to say I buy into the Benny-Hinn-charlatanisms of the world, but I do think that these events which are typically regarded as somehow very regal and holy looked like a circus to outsiders at the time. I think you make a legitimate point about Jesus and the disciples being sober teachers, but I would be careful not to neglect the authentic experience of a believer overcome with God's glory either.
And tongues, like flames of fire that were divided, appeared to them and rested on each one of them. Then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different languages, as the Spirit gave them ability for speech.
Prompting Peter to include this:
Acts 2:15
For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it’s only nine in the morning.
Acts 3:7-8
Then, taking him by the right hand he raised him up, and at once his feet and ankles became strong. So he jumped up, stood, and started to walk, and he entered the temple complex with them—walking, leaping, and praising God.
Acts 7:55-56
But Stephen, filled by the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven. He saw God’s glory, with Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
All of these events would easily lead to the common rejoinder of intoxication or influence. That's not to say I buy into the Benny-Hinn-charlatanisms of the world, but I do think that these events which are typically regarded as somehow very regal and holy looked like a circus to outsiders at the time. I think you make a legitimate point about Jesus and the disciples being sober teachers, but I would be careful not to neglect the authentic experience of a believer overcome with God's glory either.
I have often wondered what it must have been like for those who actually lived these experiences.HammerStone said:
Had I been there on that Day of Pentecost, and heard what was going on, perhaps my first impression might have been that they'd been drinking...until I heard them speaking in my own language, that is.
That remark of Peter's, that they couldn't be drunk because it was too early in the morning...that kind of makes me smile. If it had been a bit later...say, after three o'clock...then they might have been drunk? Uh...
But if I knew that someone who had been crippled was just given the ability to walk, I would not be one bit surprised to see him leaping and dancing! Heck, I'd be so happy for him, I might leap and dance right along with him!
I certainly would not suppose that Stephen was drunk...although it would probably occur to me that he was hallucinating. Loss of blood can do that to a person...or so I'm told.
EDIT: I've never been stoned, but I have been mauled by a dog, and pronounced DOA. I know I saw an angel...but others are sure it must have been a hallucination. Perhaps I will tell you the story one day....
A believer overcome with God's glory will fall down to worship Him voluntarily. God would not knock someone unconscious...where would be His glory in that? He would be full of joy...but not overcome with insane giggles. He would not behave as a drunken man....more like a happy child.
I grew up in upstate New York, not far from Buffalo. I spent a lot of time in Toronto as a kid. I have friends who were at "the Toronto Blessing". The aftermath is not pretty...one group of kids actually walked out of a sixth story window, believing that they saw Jesus beckoning to them.
I firmly believe that the spirit behind these manifestations is not holy at all....rather it is an evil spirit, whose purpose is to draw men's attention away from Christ.
The Holy Spirit would never glorify Himself. He glorifies Christ always...
Hi Angelina,Angelina said:
My point is that being slain/drunk in the spirit are acts of the flesh. I say this without fear and am not on dangerous ground for it is God who told me so and it is God who kept comparing and contrasting His voice to false voices of false Christ’s, false God the Father’s, and false Holy Spirits to me because He wanted me to be sure of the difference (since the false one’s often speak and act in ways that are extremely close to real God but they are not real and the Holy Spirit testifies against them).
The verse you showed in 2 Ti 3 is exactly my point. Timothy is warning against those who have a false appearance of godliness without God. Those without self-control.
The same thing with 2 Peter. You see what it says about those without self control.
As I wrote to Josho in another post on this subject, I want you to know that this is not about losing joy but about having the real joy that comes from the true fountain of joy, the Holy Spirit where there is always a crystal clear outpouring of truth (clarity not confusion), great beauty, creativity, love, and peace from God.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” (Matt 7:21-23).
These are people who believed they belonged to God and did miracles in His name.
Tell me why the Indian kundalini experience is the same as this and do you think those who don’t believe in Christ but are having the same experience as the slain/drunk experience are having it by the Holy Spirit even though they don’t believe in salvation by Christ alone?
I only want blessings and truth for you,
Olivia (not Oliver)
But if I knew that someone who had been crippled was just given the ability to walk, I would not be one bit surprised to see him leaping and dancing! Heck, I'd be so happy for him, I might leap and dance right along with him!
A believer overcome with God's glory will fall down to worship Him voluntarily. God would not knock someone unconscious...where would be His glory in that? He would be full of joy...but not overcome with insane giggles. He would not behave as a drunken man....more like a happy child.
I firmly believe that the spirit behind these manifestations is not holy at all....rather it is an evil spirit, whose purpose is to draw men's attention away from Christ.
The Holy Spirit would never glorify Himself. He glorifies Christ always...
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, yes, and yes.
A believer overcome with God's glory will fall down to worship Him voluntarily. God would not knock someone unconscious...where would be His glory in that? He would be full of joy...but not overcome with insane giggles. He would not behave as a drunken man....more like a happy child.
I firmly believe that the spirit behind these manifestations is not holy at all....rather it is an evil spirit, whose purpose is to draw men's attention away from Christ.
The Holy Spirit would never glorify Himself. He glorifies Christ always...
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, yes, and yes.
Please show me scripture that states that being slain/drunk in the Spirit are of the flesh and not from God.
Mark 3:28-30 says
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Jesus said this when his own people took a hold of him, claiming him to be mad. The scribes believed that he cast out of demons by the ruler of demons, not the power of God.
This warning is based on works of the flesh. Works that men/women have chosen to partake in to gratify their fleshly desires. Being drunk from wine and being under the influence/power of the Spirit are not the same thing. One is a decision that man makes of his own accord, the other is an outpouring of power from on high that is not in mans control.
As Hammerstone pointed out...even those who witnessed the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost and witnessed the manifestations, assumed that Christ's followers were drunk with wine but what was Peter's reply? Acts 2:15.
You cannot speak about something that you do not know. Go back and read the bible again...
Shalom and Peace!
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