SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

GodcallsmeOlivia

New Member
Aug 11, 2015
23
0
0
Angelina said:
Please show me scripture that states that being slain/drunk in the Spirit are of the flesh and not from God.

Mark 3:28-30 says
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Jesus said this when his own people took a hold of him, claiming him to be mad. The scribes believed that he cast out of demons by the ruler of demons, not the power of God.


This warning is based on works of the flesh. Works that men/women have chosen to partake in to gratify their fleshly desires. Being drunk from wine and being under the influence/power of the Spirit are not the same thing. One is a decision that man makes of his own accord, the other is an outpouring of power from on high that is not in mans control.

As Hammerstone pointed out...even those who witnessed the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost and witnessed the manifestations, assumed that Christ's followers were drunk with wine but what was Peter's reply? Acts 2:15.

You cannot speak about something that you do not know. Go back and read the bible again...

Shalom and Peace!
Angelina,

I will respond to what you wrote but you didn’t answer me when I asked:

Tell me why the Indian kundalini experience is the same as this and do you think those who don’t believe in Christ but are having the same experience as the slain/drunk experience are having it by the Holy Spirit even though they don’t believe in salvation by Christ alone?

Please answer this.

As far as 2 Ti 3 that is my point. Not everyone who has an appearance of godliness is of God, and those who are of God and do those behaviors are walking in the flesh, not the true Spirit of God.
The Holy Spirit is not going to overtake someone with the same behaviors that God calls behaviors of the flesh and then call those behaviors of the Spirit saying that it is of the Spirit because He is doing it. God is not going to cause someone to have behaviors or spiritual experiences that He defines elsewhere as of the flesh.

The scripture about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit does not pertain to this. Otherwise not I, but you would be guilty of it because you attribute to the Holy Spirit demonic occurrences that He doesn't do. Nevertheless, a person is not hell bound for wrong beliefs and statements about the Holy Spirit. A believer is forgiven, but an unbeliever who rejects the voice that testifies of Christ as sinless savior God cannot be forgiven and saved for they confess against faith in Christ and confess against the gospel.

“If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved,” (Ro. 10:9).

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matt 10:32-33).

I have no idea who Hammerstone is. I get my beliefs from God not other people.

The verse in Acts that you are talking about where the people who were in their sound mind and not fallen back and not showing out of control exaggerated behaviors, but rather were speaking other languages (which would have seemed to someone who didn’t know what was happening like drunken behavior because it would have seemed like a mass of people speaking gibberish) has Peter saying that the people may look drunken from the behavior but are not acting in a drunken manner, but are rather fulfilling scripture from the book of Joel.

Peter then quotes Joel which has nothing about the out of control behaviors associated with the slain/drunk movement.

“ ‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’c

Prophecy, visions, dreams, wonders on the earth (akin to plagues and devastation) are described. Not emotional, out of control behaviors.

The Kundali Spirit is very deceptive. There is no scriptural evidence for it.

I speak of what I do know because God has told me. I don’t doubt or question what God has said to me. I know it is truth. If I had to experience what you are saying to know it after hearing God then I would be doubting Him. I don’t doubt what He has said to me however. I know His voice and believe it.

“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me,” (John 10:27).

Angelina, I hope that you are at least willing to pray to God about this. Deception can cause people to fall away. The New Age concepts can seem very appealing on the surface, but inside they are as rotten fruit within a beautiful shiny bowl with a lid. Many New Agers have the types of experiences you say but they are on there way to hell being pacified by the experiences into not seeing a reason to need salvation when they believe they have found spiritual Nirvana in the experience, thus don't need a savior. Even if you have accepted Christ you can end up doing damage to your walk and to your testimony to others by participating in these things.

Present yourself a living sacrifice. Give this up for the sake of the gospel.

May you be blessed with truth and great joy springing from that truth.
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,034
14,947
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Tell me why the Indian kundalini experience is the same as this and do you think those who don’t believe in Christ but are having the same experience as the slain/drunk experience are having it by the Holy Spirit even though they don’t believe in salvation by Christ alone?
Olivia,
Have you ever encountered the Kundalini spirit in action? Have you ever been to a Pentecostal Church? The Kundalini Spirit is a new age spirit of mysticism. It is not like the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the life of a believer.

As far as 2 Ti 3 that is my point. Not everyone who has an appearance of godliness is of God, and those who are of God and do those behaviors are walking in the flesh, not the true Spirit of God.
The Holy Spirit is not going to overtake someone with the same behaviors that God calls behaviors of the flesh and then call those behaviors of the Spirit saying that it is of the Spirit because He is doing it. God is not going to cause someone to have behaviors or spiritual experiences that He defines elsewhere as of the flesh.
I can truly understand why there are so many believers who are skeptical of the Holy Spirit's outpouring upon lives of believers. This shaking, drunkedness, animal noises, laughter type spiritual awakening began in the US with Rodney Howard Browne. It continued through to other big names and Churches in the US and then spread around the world. The NAR leaders jumped on that bandwagon promoting Todd Bentley and others like him. It was imparted by the laying on of hands. Signs and wonders are not enough to determine whether someone is moving in the power of the Holy Spirit or whether they are following a false deceptive spirit. This can only be measured by their fruit.

That is why it is so very important that believers do not focus on manifestations but rather on changed lives in Christ.

I have been a born-again believer in Christ for over 30 years. 20 of those years have been in the deliverance ministry [casting out demons]. I have encountered the Kundalini spirit [which is a coiled snake at the base of the spine] and have cast it out from a believer, in Jesus name.

This does not mean that all manifestations are demonic. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit is a clearly discernible manifestation and does not have all the bells and whistles attached...

Bless you!
 

GodcallsmeOlivia

New Member
Aug 11, 2015
23
0
0
Angelina said:
Olivia,
Have you ever encountered the Kundalini spirit in action? Have you ever been to a Pentecostal Church? The Kundalini Spirit is a new age spirit of mysticism. It is not like the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the life of a believer.


I can truly understand why there are so many believers who are skeptical of the Holy Spirit's outpouring upon lives of believers. This shaking, drunkedness, animal noises, laughter type spiritual awakening began in the US with Rodney Howard Browne. It continued through to other big names and Churches in the US and then spread around the world. The NAR leaders jumped on that bandwagon promoting Todd Bentley and others like him. It was imparted by the laying on of hands. Signs and wonders are not enough to determine whether someone is moving in the power of the Holy Spirit or whether they are following a false deceptive spirit. This can only be measured by their fruit.

That is why it is so very important that believers do not focus on manifestations but rather on changed lives in Christ.

I have been a born-again believer in Christ for over 30 years. 20 of those years have been in the deliverance ministry [casting out demons]. I have encountered the Kundalini spirit [which is a coiled snake at the base of the spine] and have cast it out from a believer, in Jesus name.

This does not mean that all manifestations are demonic. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit is a clearly discernible manifestation and does not have all the bells and whistles attached...

Bless you!
Hi Angelina,

The falling backwards and convulsive behaviors are exactly like the Kundalini Spirit.

I do not speak of my personal experiences of power from the Holy Spirit, which have been many, because unless there is a purpose to it for God it would be self-glorification rather than glorification of God and because miracles are pale and irrelevant if not lit by God’s love and life. It is the purpose of miracles, not the miracles themselves that are of relevance. I agree with you that it is important not to focus on manifestations. However, do not think I do not believe signs and miracles are for today. I do believe in them. Yet I know the difference. Power from God comes with complete awareness, Spirit filled understanding with power and direct authority from God that is clear, unshakable, and with purpose. A person is in there sound mind. It is never out of control and random.

Regarding casting out of demons. On another forum there were two people who were into drunk/slain in the Spirit and who insisted that a believer could be demon possessed. In fact one of them, the lady, insisted that the thorn that Paul the apostle had was that he was demon possessed.

The lady said her daughter was demon possessed even though she was saved and someone in the deliverance ministry cast out the demon. She was part of the Bethel Redding movement (Jesus Culture is part of their church).

Both the beliefs that a Christian can be possessed and that Paul the apostle’s thorn in the flesh was demon possession is totally contrary to salvation, the bible, and the fact that Jesus owns the believer.

To be honest with you, 15, 20 years ago I could go just about anywhere and start a conversation about God and often have a reciprocal Spirit filled conversation with many people. Not so today. Deceptions have caused many to suppress the true Spirit of God. Deceptive Spirits (deception is spiritual, not flesh and blood) using many things including confusion, psychology, politics, self, self, self, fear, fear of government and work retaliation for not conforming, etc. etc. has silenced many even though true believers (now hidden believers). Before this time as well as now focus on conformity in proper biblical works rather than works by God through the believer from His Spirit caused a lack of awareness and submission to the Holy Spirit (I am obviously simplifying this and this is still rampant today). Works by God through His Spirit versus works for God by conforming to right habits may look the same, but one has power and power in words (by focus and faith in God and living in the Spirit of God where one is the new creation in Christ that they are and it is God not self doing the works through the individual) and one is just self-acts for God which is not of faith (focus on right behaviors, trying to get sin self to improve, that self that is supposed to be dead and buried).

Those whose inner yearning for the Holy Spirit and true connection to the Spirit who believe false doctrines or Spirit’s causing confusion suppress the truth of God that God speaks to them. God speaks to all His believers and yet many don’t hear or they are confused by deceiving Spirits. Confusion comes when a person does not stand in and for truth. The yearning however is still there and since many are not having real Spirit filled conversations with anyone and are not experiencing real Spirit filled connection with God there is a seeking for the experiential in a spiritual form even if it is not the true thing since the desire for connection to God is so urgent. Unbelievers want this connection as well for all know God exists by His creation.

“ For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” (Ro 1:20).

The drunk/slain manifestations fill a need for connection, but they are not connecting to God.

The truth is it is like numbers 13 and 14 where only Joshua and Caleb were not afraid but stood in faith or like David and Goliath where all others feared but David was in faith.
All believers are as David, Joshua, Caleb when in faith. However, if real manifested power of the Holy Spirit isn’t seen today, people look elsewhere because they need that connection to God. The slain drunk thing is not fulfilling the real connection.

Again, I know God’s voice and know from God’s Spirit the truth.

One believer in Christ in faith is more powerful than all evil combined. True connection is submission to God for his purpose by faith in sound mind thought and power.

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind,” (2 Ti 1:7, King James).

“For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline” (2 Ti 1:7, NIV).
Interesting, sound mind and self-discipline interchangeable.

Joy, love, and peace are always available in God’s Spirit every moment. A believer doesn’t have to go unconscious to get it.

Be blessed. Be joyful, filled with love and peace for these things are always there for you.
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,034
14,947
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
I do not speak of my personal experiences of power from the Holy Spirit, which have been many, because unless there is a purpose to it for God it would be self-glorification rather than glorification of God and because miracles are pale and irrelevant if not lit by God’s love and life. It is the purpose of miracles, not the miracles themselves that are of relevance. I agree with you that it is important not to focus on manifestations. However, do not think I do not believe signs and miracles are for today. I do believe in them. Yet I know the difference. Power from God comes with complete awareness, Spirit filled understanding with power and direct authority from God that is clear, unshakable, and with purpose. A person is in there sound mind. It is never out of control and random.
Olivia, I also know the difference and I beg to differ on your conclusion. Unless you have experienced the outpouring of the Holy Spirit's power yourself...it is a non event. When the Holy Spirit pours out his power upon a believer, they do not have control over how or when it happens, however, they do have a choice whether they want to stay under it. This is a given...The Kundalini spirit is not the same by any means. Perhaps you should visit a Pentecostal church so that you can clearly define the difference?

Regarding casting out of demons. On another forum there were two people who were into drunk/slain in the Spirit and who insisted that a believer could be demon possessed. In fact one of them, the lady, insisted that the thorn that Paul the apostle had was that he was demon possessed.
The lady said her daughter was demon possessed even though she was saved and someone in the deliverance ministry cast out the demon. She was part of the Bethel Redding movement (Jesus Culture is part of their church).

Both the beliefs that a Christian can be possessed and that Paul the apostle’s thorn in the flesh was demon possession is totally contrary to salvation, the bible, and the fact that Jesus owns the believer.
Olivia, The Bethel Church in Redding is one of the churches noted to be involved with the Kundalini spirit. Along with other churches in the US. Paul did not have a demon. That thorn in the flesh was from God. Christians can have demons but cannot be possessed. I have cast out many demonic entities from believers. It's because they have areas in their lives that they have not submitted to God. Salvation does not make a believer perfect, it just makes them saved. A believer for example who is an alcoholic and gets saved can still be an alcoholic and that is where the sanctification process begins for them. Sometimes a familiar spirit is involved but I'm sure your not interested in what I have to say about these things so I'll say no more.

To be honest with you, 15, 20 years ago I could go just about anywhere and start a conversation about God and often have a reciprocal Spirit filled conversation with many people. Not so today. Deceptions have caused many to suppress the true Spirit of God. Deceptive Spirits (deception is spiritual, not flesh and blood) using many things including confusion, psychology, politics, self, self, self, fear, fear of government and work retaliation for not conforming, etc. etc. has silenced many even though true believers (now hidden believers). Before this time as well as now focus on conformity in proper biblical works rather than works by God through the believer from His Spirit caused a lack of awareness and submission to the Holy Spirit (I am obviously simplifying this and this is still rampant today). Works by God through His Spirit versus works for God by conforming to right habits may look the same, but one has power and power in words (by focus and faith in God and living in the Spirit of God where one is the new creation in Christ that they are and it is God not self doing the works through the individual) and one is just self-acts for God which is not of faith (focus on right behaviors, trying to get sin self to improve, that self that is supposed to be dead and buried)
I'm sorry to hear that about your part of the world but to be honest...our Pentecostal movements in my country are mild compared to what I have observed on telly and via internet from the US.

Those whose inner yearning for the Holy Spirit and true connection to the Spirit who believe false doctrines or Spirit’s causing confusion suppress the truth of God that God speaks to them. God speaks to all His believers and yet many don’t hear or they are confused by deceiving Spirits. Confusion comes when a person does not stand in and for truth. The yearning however is still there and since many are not having real Spirit filled conversations with anyone and are not experiencing real Spirit filled connection with God there is a seeking for the experiential in a spiritual form even if it is not the true thing since the desire for connection to God is so urgent. Unbelievers want this connection as well for all know God exists by His creation.
“ For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” (Ro 1:20).
The drunk/slain manifestations fill a need for connection, but they are not connecting to God.
The truth is it is like numbers 13 and 14 where only Joshua and Caleb were not afraid but stood in faith or like David and Goliath where all others feared but David was in faith.
All believers are as David, Joshua, Caleb when in faith. However, if real manifested power of the Holy Spirit isn’t seen today, people look elsewhere because they need that connection to God. The slain drunk thing is not fulfilling the real connection.
Again, I know God’s voice and know from God’s Spirit the truth.
One believer in Christ in faith is more powerful than all evil combined. True connection is submission to God for his purpose by faith in sound mind thought and power.
“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind,” (2 Ti 1:7, King James).
“For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline” (2 Ti 1:7, NIV).
Interesting, sound mind and self-discipline interchangeable.
Joy, love, and peace are always available in God’s Spirit every moment. A believer doesn’t have to go unconscious to get it.
Be blessed. Be joyful, filled with love and peace for these things are always there for you.
It is true what the bible says about people who call a thing evil, what they do not understand and `~ for lack of knowledge, my people perish.

Be Blessed!
 

GodcallsmeOlivia

New Member
Aug 11, 2015
23
0
0
Angelina said:
Olivia, I also know the difference and I beg to differ on your conclusion. Unless you have experienced the outpouring of the Holy Spirit's power yourself...it is a non event. When the Holy Spirit pours out his power upon a believer, they do not have control over how or when it happens, however, they do have a choice whether they want to stay under it. This is a given...The Kundalini spirit is not the same by any means. Perhaps you should visit a Pentecostal church so that you can clearly define the difference?


Olivia, The Bethel Church in Redding is one of the churches noted to be involved with the Kundalini spirit. Along with other churches in the US. Paul did not have a demon. That thorn in the flesh was from God. Christians can have demons but cannot be possessed. I have cast out many demonic entities from believers. It's because they have areas in their lives that they have not submitted to God. Salvation does not make a believer perfect, it just makes them saved. A believer for example who is an alcoholic and gets saved can still be an alcoholic and that is where the sanctification process begins for them. Sometimes a familiar spirit is involved but I'm sure your not interested in what I have to say about these things so I'll say no more.


I'm sorry to hear that about your part of the world but to be honest...our Pentecostal movements in my country are mild compared to what I have observed on telly and via internet from the US.


It is true what the bible says about people who call a thing evil, what they do not understand and `~ for lack of knowledge, my people perish.

Be Blessed!
[SIZE=10.5pt]Angelina,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The only conclusion I can make from your all your points is that you conclude that your experiences are more relevant and accurate than the bible, God's word/Word. You have not had one bible verse to back up your experiences and I have already showed you many and have showed that the outpouring that Peter refers to in Acts is taken from Joel which in no way describes any of the behaviors of slain/drunk in Spirit. You cannot find one instance in the bible showing such out of control behaviors as slain/drunk in spirit. All who fall back in the bible are demon possessed and all who fall forward do so in awe, fear, amazement, and reverence for God. Again, all who fall backward are demonically possessed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]According to your personal opinion, not the bible, you say some chuches have the kundalini spirit and some don't yet both exhibit the same ungodly behaviors of falling backward and convulsing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You have made assumptions about me from the beginning as well seeing as you have no idea if I have ever been to a Pentecostal church, you don't know if I have spoken in tongues as in Acts, sung from God's Spirit, if God has done miracles through me, etc. etc. You don't know and I will not discuss it for anyone can speak of their experiences and even unbelievers have experiences and even do miracles in God's name so going just by experiences doesn't validate something. Not that I am against speaking against experiences if God wills but I am against it when it is treated as authority over the bible.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]It comes down to if you can back up what you say is truth with the bible. I have given you many verses that show the behavior you speak of is unbiblical. And even in Galatians the fruit of the Spirit is always the fruit of the Spirit. This verse is a comparison of flesh to the fruit and slain/drunk is against the fruit. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You do not have one verse, I have many so why would you try to use my people perish for lack of knowledge against me when it is you that doesn't have the bible to support your assertations?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I am glad you do not believe Paul's thorn was a demon, but then you say that Christian's can have demons. If you mean that they can be harrassed by demons I agree. If you mean that a demon is somehow attached to them, I disagree. Only Christ owns the believer and has rights to them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The experiential and deceptions can be as addictions, just as alcoholism. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]There is only one way to test the truth. The bible. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]May you be blessed with understanding from the bible and see the beauty of God in every word.[/SIZE]
 

Josho

Millennial Christian
Staff member
Jul 19, 2015
5,814
5,754
113
28
The Land of Aus
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You do not have to have Bible verses to back up experiences from the Holy Spirit, it's a gift from Jesus to us.
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,034
14,947
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
The only conclusion I can make from your all your points is that you conclude that your experiences are more relevant and accurate than the bible, God's word/Word.
[SIZE=10.5pt]Olivia,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]You can only believe something you have faith in based on scripture or if you've experienced it for yourself personally. Since you have not experienced it for yourself, this is not going to change your tunnel vision of it. I cannot believe that pumpkin pie could taste nice as a dessert because our pumpkins are not sweet in my country. This is my opinion of pumpkin pie but because I have not experienced it...it remains an enigma. [/SIZE]

You have not had one bible verse to back up your experiences and I have already showed you many and have showed that the outpouring that Peter refers to in Acts is taken from Joel which in no way describes any of the behaviors of slain/drunk in Spirit. You cannot find one instance in the bible showing such out of control behaviors as slain/drunk in spirit. All who fall back in the bible are demon possessed and all who fall forward do so in awe, fear, amazement, and reverence for God. Again, all who fall backward are demonically possessed.
[SIZE=10.5pt]I have actually but you have chosen to ignore them. Even Joel 2;28, 29 speaks of this event in the book of Acts because it was something that was prophesied in relation to the Holy Spirit empowering the believer. [/SIZE]

According to your personal opinion, not the bible, you say some chuches have the kundalini spirit and some don't yet both exhibit the same ungodly behaviors of falling backward and convulsing.
[SIZE=10.5pt]...and according to your personal opinion, not the bible ~ what is from the Holy Spirit, is not of the Holy Spirit because you have never experienced it in your life. Therefore, it must be demonic.[/SIZE]

You have made assumptions about me from the beginning as well seeing as you have no idea if I have ever been to a Pentecostal church, you don't know if I have spoken in tongues as in Acts, sung from God's Spirit, if God has done miracles through me, etc. etc. You don't know and I will not discuss it for anyone can speak of their experiences and even unbelievers have experiences and even do miracles in God's name so going just by experiences doesn't validate something. Not that I am against speaking against experiences if God wills but I am against it when it is treated as authority over the bible.
[SIZE=10.5pt]Even your post above where you state that unbelievers can do miracles in God's name indicates that you do not know what you are talking about. You speak from your limitations yet Jesus said John 14: 12, 13, 14. An unbeliever needs the indwelling Holy Spirit to walk in the miraculous. John 14:17 The gift of miracles is from the Holy Spirit for believers, according to the will of God.[/SIZE]

It comes down to if you can back up what you say is truth with the bible. I have given you many verses that show the behavior you speak of is unbiblical. And even in Galatians the fruit of the Spirit is always the fruit of the Spirit. This verse is a comparison of flesh to the fruit and slain/drunk is against the fruit.
[SIZE=10.5pt]What you call unbiblical ~ is of God. What it comes down to is that you need to stop cherry-picking scripture to fit your own personal beliefs. Being drunk with wine is in opposition to being filled with the Spirit Ephesians 5:18 Note in Galatians 5:21 "drunkedness" in this list is placed right next to "revelries/carousing" which attributes to loud, noisy parties/festivities particularly when these involve drinking a large amounts of alcohol. Also note; Romans 13:13, Gal 5:21, 1 Peter 4:3.[/SIZE]

You do not have one verse, I have many so why would you try to use my people perish for lack of knowledge against me when it is you that doesn't have the bible to support your assertations?
[SIZE=10.5pt]I gave you a verse but you would not accept it. What you mean is that I did not give you a verse that did not already fit into your personal theology but again ~ I gave you this verse re: on-lookers who observed the outpouring of the Holy Spirits power coming down on believers at Pentecost. Like yourself, they believed that these men were drunk. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Acts 2:15[/SIZE]
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

I am glad you do not believe Paul's thorn was a demon, but then you say that Christian's can have demons. If you mean that they can be harrassed by demons I agree. If you mean that a demon is somehow attached to them, I disagree. Only Christ owns the believer and has rights to them.
[SIZE=10.5pt]I mean that believers can have demons ~ yes. They are not attached to believers, they are indwelling. The believer is saved by their belief and faith in Christs saving work on the cross . They are saved from the penalty of sin which is death. Death without Christ is eternal. The outcome of eternal death is the lake of fire. This is not the end of our responsibility. We need to repent even as believers and walk worthy of his calling. [/SIZE]

The experiential and deceptions can be as addictions, just as alcoholism.
[SIZE=10.5pt]You keep believing that ~ In the mean time, I will continue to help believers who come to me asking for help with deliverance from areas that they acutely aware of[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] [and sometimes they are not aware][/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] plaguing their walk with God ie: sexual lust, pornography, drugs and alcohol, anger, violence, hatred, abuses of all kinds, marital problems and much more...[/SIZE]

There is only one way to test the truth. The bible.
[SIZE=10.5pt]The Holy Spirit teaches me truth John 16:13, Ephesians 1:13, John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 2:12, 13, 14 through understanding [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]scripture found in his Word . 2 Timothy 3:16.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Jesus said ~ John 14[/SIZE]
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you askanything in My name, I will do it.

...and again he says

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

May you be blessed with understanding from the bible and see the beauty of God in every word.
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Ephesians 1:18

Shalom and Peace!
345xw6v.gif
wch9b4.gif
 

GodcallsmeOlivia

New Member
Aug 11, 2015
23
0
0
Angelina said:
[SIZE=10.5pt]Olivia,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]You can only believe something you have faith in based on scripture or if you've experienced it for yourself personally. Since you have not experienced it for yourself, this is not going to change your tunnel vision of it. I cannot believe that pumpkin pie could taste nice as a dessert because our pumpkins are not sweet in my country. This is my opinion of pumpkin pie but because I have not experienced it...it remains an enigma. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]I have actually but you have chosen to ignore them. Even Joel 2;28, 29 speaks of this event in the book of Acts because it was something that was prophesied in relation to the Holy Spirit empowering the believer. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]...and according to your personal opinion, not the bible ~ what is from the Holy Spirit, is not of the Holy Spirit because you have never experienced it in your life. Therefore, it must be demonic.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]Even your post above where you state that unbelievers can do miracles in God's name indicates that you do not know what you are talking about. You speak from your limitations yet Jesus said John 14: 12, 13, 14. An unbeliever needs the indwelling Holy Spirit to walk in the miraculous. John 14:17 The gift of miracles is from the Holy Spirit for believers, according to the will of God.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]What you call unbiblical ~ is of God. What it comes down to is that you need to stop cherry-picking scripture to fit your own personal beliefs. Being drunk with wine is in opposition to being filled with the Spirit Ephesians 5:18 Note in Galatians 5:21 "drunkedness" in this list is placed right next to "revelries/carousing" which attributes to loud, noisy parties/festivities particularly when these involve drinking a large amounts of alcohol. Also note; Romans 13:13, Gal 5:21, 1 Peter 4:3.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]I gave you a verse but you would not accept it. What you mean is that I did not give you a verse that did not already fit into your personal theology but again ~ I gave you this verse re: on-lookers who observed the outpouring of the Holy Spirits power coming down on believers at Pentecost. Like yourself, they believed that these men were drunk. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Acts 2:15[/SIZE]
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:


[SIZE=10.5pt]I mean that believers can have demons ~ yes. They are not attached to believers, they are indwelling. The believer is saved by their belief and faith in Christs saving work on the cross . They are saved from the penalty of sin which is death. Death without Christ is eternal. The outcome of eternal death is the lake of fire. This is not the end of our responsibility. We need to repent even as believers and walk worthy of his calling. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]You keep believing that ~ In the mean time, I will continue to help believers who come to me asking for help with deliverance from areas that they acutely aware of[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] [and sometimes they are not aware][/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] plaguing their walk with God ie: sexual lust, pornography, drugs and alcohol, anger, violence, hatred, abuses of all kinds, marital problems and much more...[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]The Holy Spirit teaches me truth John 16:13, Ephesians 1:13, John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 2:12, 13, 14 through understanding [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]scripture found in his Word . 2 Timothy 3:16.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Jesus said ~ John 14[/SIZE]
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you askanything in My name, I will do it.

...and again he says

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.


18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Ephesians 1:18

Shalom and Peace!
345xw6v.gif
wch9b4.gif
Angelina,

Actually, I can believe slain/drunk in the Spirit is demonic for two reasons. One is because it is against scriptures which you can't refute and haven't refuted and two it is because God has told me it is demonic. Maybe you have never heard God's voice so that is why you say that I could only know something through experiencing it. God however speaks to me all day and has said it is demonic and I know His voice. Of course I am not going to submit to a demonic experience that God has told me is of deception. I am not going to try an experience God told me He is against.

Here again is Joel 2:28-29 since you must have either overlooked or ignored my explanation in my above post:

“And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days" (Joel 2:28-29).

Where does it any way say falling backward and convulsing. Again it says prophesy, dreams, visions, and if you continue on it says:



"I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the Lord has said,
even among the survivors
whom the Lord calls" (Joel 2:30-32).


There is nothing in this part about falling back and convulsing or going unconscious either. Sounds more like environmental miracles (like two witnesses). There is nothing in these verses about what you say. In Acts 2 they are speaking in actual languages on earth and are in their right mind.

I am not saying that all miracles that God does through people are listed in Joel however, but I am saying that any and all miracles that He does will never contradict the bible. The out of control behaviors you endorse do contradict the bible and I have shown you many verses that say such. Joel however in no way indicates out of control outpourings.


I don't base my opinions on experiences because doing such can lead a person into deception. I base them on the Word of God and what God says to me and have faith in the truth of God while denying everything that is against His truth even if it has an appearance of good for appearances and experiences can be filled with deception. God's truth cannot have deception in it.

On the point of doing miracles in the name of Jesus you must not understand what I wrote.

The scripture I was referencing was:

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matt 7:22-23).

These people are doing miracles in Christ's name but not by the power of God's Spirit for they are unsaved. You can claim your experiences are of God but just because you feel they are doesn't mean they are. Your experiences contradict the bible so they are not of God. Reference the scriptures I gave you in posts above on self control. The bible shows your experiences are not of God for they are against self control.

Now here is John 14:12-14 which you try to use to show a point:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

I don't see how this backs up your point in any way. I never said I don't believe in miracles. I do say that your falling back, convulsing and unconscious, and animalistic behaviors in the slain/drunk movement definitely don't glorify the Father or the Son and are therefore not of God. Instead they give a degrading picture of God to the world as if He makes us into brute beasts, WHICH HE Doesn't. God is to be exalted. He is the highest of intelligence and self control. You should be ashamed of showing the world this type of depiction of God. This is not about what feels good to you. It is about whether it exalts God to a lost world who desperately need His salvation.

What I call unbiblical (the slain/drunk in the Spirit movement) is because there are many verses to show it is unbiblical and that it is not of God. I obviously will pick verses that relate to the subject we are speaking about. The fruit of the Spirit is always the fruit of the Spirit in every circumstance, at all times, everywhere, eternally. Self control will always be a fruit of the Spirit and lack of self control will always not be of the Spirit. Giving me bible verses about God being against drunkeness has no relevance to this conversation. The fruit of the Spirit is self control always and forever and falling backward and convulsing is not self control. How do not being drunk verses relate to this in any way?

You have not given me any verses, not one that can support your claims and after looking at your other writings on this forum I find it hard to believe you don't inwardly know that what I am saying is true or at least understand what I am saying for you seem like your definitely smart enough to understand. I would hope you are not fighting for your points because of pride or not wanting to give up what you know has no biblical backup. I would hope that the love of Christ would cause you to not want to be a part of something that could harm others or that could cause people to become demon possessed.

Acts 2:15 as you try to use it to show your point can only be understood in the full context of the chapter:

You show Acts 2:15
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

Let's look at the context:

[SIZE=11pt]"When the day of Pentecost[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]came, they were all together[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]in one place.[/SIZE][SIZE=8.5pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting.[/SIZE] [SIZE=8.5pt]3 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.[/SIZE] [SIZE=8.5pt]4 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]and began to speak in other tongues[/SIZE][SIZE=7pt][ahttps://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+2&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26954a][/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]as the Spirit enabled them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8.5pt]5 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]Jews from every nation under heaven.[/SIZE] [SIZE=8.5pt]6 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.[/SIZE][SIZE=8.5pt]7 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Utterly amazed,[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?[/SIZE][SIZE=8.5pt]8 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?[/SIZE] [SIZE=8.5pt]9 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia,[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]Pontusand Asia,[/SIZE][SIZE=7pt][bhttps://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+2&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26959b][/SIZE] [SIZE=8.5pt]10 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Phrygia[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]and Pamphylia,[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene;[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]visitors from Rome[/SIZE] [SIZE=8.5pt]11 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt](both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”[/SIZE][SIZE=8.5pt]12 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8.5pt]13 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”[/SIZE]' (Acts 2:1-13).
[SIZE=11pt]The above verses make it clear that they were speaking in other languages that were known real languages on earth at that time. Although all of them were Galileans and would have spoken in the language of Galilee at that time they were as the Spirit enabled them speaking in languages they would not have known like the languages of the Parthinas, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamians, etc. etc. Because of all the different languages being spoken at once by those who wouldn't have known the languages some were amazed, yet others thought they were drunk because of this.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Because of some thinking the various languages being spoken constituted drunk behavior because they couldn't comprehend what was happening (in no way does this speaking in other languages sound out of control) Peter tells those people that those speaking in the foreign languages are not drunk but are speaking by the Spirit of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Therefore, how in any way can you make a point that this relates to drunk/ slain in the spirit? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]As far as a believer be indwelled by a demon, this is not biblical. Show one instance in the bible where a person is a demon possessed believer. A believer can only be harassed by a demon. A real believer is indwelled by the Holy Spirit alone.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Jesus said, "In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house" (Mark 3:27).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]You actually believe Satan has power to tie up/bing in some way the Holy Spirit so he can plunder God's house/temple (the believer).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own" (1 C0 6:19).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=11pt]Do you really believe Satan has power to take over God's temple from within when God now owns that temple?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]God is infinitely, eternally, completely, at all times, in every way more powerful than everyone and everything combined.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]"and giving joyful thanks to the Father,who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins" (Col 1:12-14).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]A believer of God is part of the kingdom of light, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]rescued from the dominion of darkness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]"for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Satan cannot overtake the kingdom of God, or the Spirit of God, or Christ who owns the believer.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Col 2:15).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Christ disarmed demonic powers. His Spirit cannot be overtaken by them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]God only allows Satan and the spiritual realm to communicate with believers [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]because God wants the same thing that He wanted with Eve. He wants his believers to have faith in Him alone. Faith is only true faith when tested and proven true.[/SIZE]

As far as my statement "There is only one way to test the truth. The bible."

I have made it clear in my writings that I listen to the voice of God and hear Him. My purpose in the statement was to say that when there are differences of opinion as in this thread the bible will show who is actually hearing from God and who isn't.

" I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints" (Ephesians 1:18).

Out of love I pray this verse for you as well.

Angelina, you seem to have your mind made up no matter how many bible verses I show you and if you are honest you will have to admit you have shown me none. You have yet to reasonably relate the verses of Joel to what you are doing (you have no clear explanation how they relate to slain/drunk behaviors) and you have yet to deny that the fruit of the Spirit does not change so you then have to be validating my point(the fruit of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23). You have not shown evidence against the other scriptures on self control that I have given you. Instead you keep coming back to your experience.

This is not about winning an argument. My purpose is to hopefully disuade readers who have not participated from getting involved in this movement and to possibly plant seeds with those doing such things. You do not seem open to changing and only you can make that decision when and if you will change but I plant seeds because I don't want to see the deception in the church that I see today.


Blessings!
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,034
14,947
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Actually, I can believe slain/drunk in the Spirit is demonic for two reasons. One is because it is against scriptures which you can't refute and haven't refuted and two it is because God has told me it is demonic. Maybe you have never heard God's voice so that is why you say that I could only know something through experiencing it. God however speaks to me all day and has said it is demonic and I know His voice. Of course I am not going to submit to a demonic experience that God has told me is of deception. I am not going to try an experience God told me He is against.
I think that you are listening to the wrong voice or perhaps it's just something you do not need to understand because it is not an area you have been called to minister in. It is not against scripture which you cannot refute either and personal revelation, as you have already attested, is not enough. I have given you scripture clearly showing you that "drunkenness in Galatians 5 refers to being drunk with alcohol. Not drunk in the Spirit.

I also know his voice and he speaks to me throughout the day. Especially when dealing with people who have bondages or who are struggling in their walk with God. Some times he shows to me their childhood or a situation in their lives that has caused them to struggle and sometimes he shows me how they have gotten into a situation where God is not pleased and they are being disobedient to God's will/word even though they know it.


There is nothing in this part about falling back and convulsing or going unconscious either. Sounds more like environmental miracles (like two witnesses). There is nothing in these verses about what you say. In Acts 2 they are speaking in actual languages on earth and are in their right mind
There is nothing in Joel that says they will speak in tongues in the language of those who are listening either...where does it say that and yet it happened quite clearly in Acts 2

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”


I am not saying that all miracles that God does through people are listed in Joel however, but I am saying that any and all miracles that He does will never contradict the bible. The out of control behaviors you endorse do contradict the bible and I have shown you many verses that say such. Joel however in no way indicates out of control outpourings.
Note this situation in the O/T where Saul wanted to destroy David. First he sent his men and then he went himself.

18 So David fled and escaped, and went to Samuel at Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and stayed in Naioth. 19 Now it was told Saul, saying, “Take note, David is at Naioth in Ramah!” 20 Then Saul sent messengers to take David. And when they saw the group of prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as leader over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. 21 And when Saul was told, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. Then Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also. 22 Then he also went to Ramah, and came to the great well that is at Sechu. So he asked, and said, “Where are Samuel and David?”
And someone said, “Indeed they are at Naioth in Ramah.” 23 So he went there to Naioth in Ramah.


Is this the behavior of a man in control? I would consider this as an "out of control outpouring" because it's against what Saul really wanted to do which was to kill David.

Then the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on and prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 And he also stripped off his clothes and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Therefore they say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

I'm sure you would consider Sauls actions as unbiblical and out of control as well. Yet it is God who has done this and he has a purpose and plan for all things ~ not us.

I don't base my opinions on experiences because doing such can lead a person into deception. I base them on the Word of God and what God says to me and have faith in the truth of God while denying everything that is against His truth even if it has an appearance of good for appearances and experiences can be filled with deception. God's truth cannot have deception in it.
I base my understanding of the word of God through revelation of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our helper given by God when we accept him as Lord and savior. Anyone can read the bible which has been tampered with over the centuries but revelation comes from the Spirit of God when the word is read, the Holy Spirit who dwells within believers teaches us the meaning of scripture via revelation.

You have not given me any verses, not one that can support your claims and after looking at your other writings on this forum I find it hard to believe you don't inwardly know that what I am saying is true or at least understand what I am saying for you seem like your definitely smart enough to understand. I would hope you are not fighting for your points because of pride or not wanting to give up what you know has no biblical backup. I would hope that the love of Christ would cause you to not want to be a part of something that could harm others or that could cause people to become demon possessed.
What you are saying is based on someone who has never experienced the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in their life. Your truth is limited and will always be that way until the Holy Spirit reveals to you otherwise. This may take a long time but I'm sure that God's timing will be perfect timing in your case. I have given you verses but again you have chosen to ignore them but that is okay because I know that somewhere down the line things will change for you and you will try to hunt me out again. I will accept that apology you will give me in the future right now :) because I know where your at...

As far as a believer be indwelled by a demon, this is not biblical. Show one instance in the bible where a person is a demon possessed believer. A believer can only be harassed by a demon. A real believer is indwelled by the Holy Spirit alone.
Please note: 50 days after Jesus went to the cross, the Holy Spirit arrived at Pentecost. Every person who prior to that had no hope of deliverance accept by Jesus himself or the power of God through the outworking of the Holy Spirit ministered by his disciples. John 7:39. Your above statement is moot because the N/T believers were those whom Jesus chose himself and the O/T believers followed the law. The rest of the world were gentiles or pagans. This was a new thing yet it was prophesied by the O/T prophets even up to the forerunner [John the Baptizer].

Jesus said, "In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house" (Mark 3:27).
That is correct and that is what we use in deliverance ministry...we bind the strongman.

You actually believe Satan has power to tie up/bing in some way the Holy Spirit so he can plunder God's house/temple (the believer).
Your understanding of scripture is incorrect. A strongman is not the Holy Spirit, It is a demonic force. The Holy Spirit has never been referred to as "a stongman" in scripture. He is the Power of God!

The rest of your comments show little understanding of the power of God working in individual lives and I'm afraid that I do not have the time or the energy to disciple anyone although I have discipled many back in the day. I hope you find the answers to your questions because you certainly aren't listening to me and I doubt that you will listen to others who have served many years for Christ and have fruit to prove it. Just stay in your Holy huddle and be safe there. Meanwhile I and many others will continue to be used by God in various ministries through the Power of the indwelling Holy Spirit to help those who are being saved and those who are saved!


Shalom ~ Peace to you and Grace from God!
 

GodcallsmeOlivia

New Member
Aug 11, 2015
23
0
0
Angelina said:
I think that you are listening to the wrong voice or perhaps it's just something you do not need to understand because it is not an area you have been called to minister in. It is not against scripture which you cannot refute either and personal revelation, as you have already attested, is not enough. I have given you scripture clearly showing you that "drunkenness in Galatians 5 refers to being drunk with alcohol. Not drunk in the Spirit.

I also know his voice and he speaks to me throughout the day. Especially when dealing with people who have bondages or who are struggling in their walk with God. Some times he shows to me their childhood or a situation in their lives that has caused them to struggle and sometimes he shows me how they have gotten into a situation where God is not pleased and they are being disobedient to God's will/word even though they know it.



There is nothing in Joel that says they will speak in tongues in the language of those who are listening either...where does it say that and yet it happened quite clearly in Acts 2

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”



Note this situation in the O/T where Saul wanted to destroy David. First he sent his men and then he went himself.

18 So David fled and escaped, and went to Samuel at Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and stayed in Naioth. 19 Now it was told Saul, saying, “Take note, David is at Naioth in Ramah!” 20 Then Saul sent messengers to take David. And when they saw the group of prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as leader over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied. 21 And when Saul was told, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. Then Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they prophesied also. 22 Then he also went to Ramah, and came to the great well that is at Sechu. So he asked, and said, “Where are Samuel and David?”
And someone said, “Indeed they are at Naioth in Ramah.” 23 So he went there to Naioth in Ramah.


Is this the behavior of a man in control? I would consider this as an "out of control outpouring" because it's against what Saul really wanted to do which was to kill David.

Then the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on and prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 And he also stripped off his clothes and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Therefore they say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

I'm sure you would consider Sauls actions as unbiblical and out of control as well. Yet it is God who has done this and he has a purpose and plan for all things ~ not us.


I base my understanding of the word of God through revelation of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our helper given by God when we accept him as Lord and savior. Anyone can read the bible which has been tampered with over the centuries but revelation comes from the Spirit of God when the word is read, the Holy Spirit who dwells within believers teaches us the meaning of scripture via revelation.


What you are saying is based on someone who has never experienced the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in their life. Your truth is limited and will always be that way until the Holy Spirit reveals to you otherwise. This may take a long time but I'm sure that God's timing will be perfect timing in your case. I have given you verses but again you have chosen to ignore them but that is okay because I know that somewhere down the line things will change for you and you will try to hunt me out again. I will accept that apology you will give me in the future right now :) because I know where your at...


Please note: 50 days after Jesus went to the cross, the Holy Spirit arrived at Pentecost. Every person who prior to that had no hope of deliverance accept by Jesus himself or the power of God through the outworking of the Holy Spirit ministered by his disciples. John 7:39. Your above statement is moot because the N/T believers were those whom Jesus chose himself and the O/T believers followed the law. The rest of the world were gentiles or pagans. This was a new thing yet it was prophesied by the O/T prophets even up to the forerunner [John the Baptizer].


That is correct and that is what we use in deliverance ministry...we bind the strongman.


Your understanding of scripture is incorrect. A strongman is not the Holy Spirit, It is a demonic force. The Holy Spirit has never been referred to as "a stongman" in scripture. He is the Power of God!

The rest of your comments show little understanding of the power of God working in individual lives and I'm afraid that I do not have the time or the energy to disciple anyone although I have discipled many back in the day. I hope you find the answers to your questions because you certainly aren't listening to me and I doubt that you will listen to others who have served many years for Christ and have fruit to prove it. Just stay in your Holy huddle and be safe there. Meanwhile I and many others will continue to be used by God in various ministries through the Power of the indwelling Holy Spirit to help those who are being saved and those who are saved!


Shalom ~ Peace to you and Grace from God!
[SIZE=10.5pt]Actually you are listening to the wrong voice which is shown by your lack of understanding of the scriptures.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I have continually spoken of the fruit of the Spirit and you have continually ignored the fruit and switched the subject over to being drunk in the flesh. I will say it again. The fruit of the Spirit is always the fruit of the Spirit. Self control is always the fruit of the Spirit. The verse about being drunk in the flesh which you, not I keep mentioning, does not impact the fact that the fruit is the fruit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]God tells me things about people as well. However, I don't argue from experiential as you do for that is not proof for even psychics and many in the New Age do the same but by dark spirits.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]As far as Joel I referred to it because you tried to make a point from it. Even though it doesn't specifically say speaking in tongues all who were engaged in the activity were of a sound mind (biblical) and had self control (biblical).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Slain and drunk in the Spirit is not of a sound mind and not of self control so AGAIN this is why I say these things are not of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Now Saul earlier in Samuel already had the Spirit of God depart from him and was continually bothered by an evil spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]"But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him" (1 Sa 16:14).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]So why did Saul remove his clothes (that is kingly garments) as he prophesied (he didn't fall backward and go unconscious but with full awareness lay there)? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Naked can be translated poorly clothed and Saul removing his kingly garments is showing humility. Saul in his humble clothing was showing his humility before God especially he had to know that he was being bothered by the evil spirit and he knew Samuel could possibly help him if he showed humility.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]This is like when David wore humble clothing (rather than kingly) dancing before the Lord.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]So no, I don't think this is unbiblical or out of control like slain/drunk in the Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I have my understanding by the Holy Spirit. However since we are both saying something different the bible shows what is true.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Actually it is you who is following a false spirit saying it is the Holy Spirit. I have experienced the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and it is not slain/drunk in the spirit behavior. I have given scripture to back up my points but you have not backed up yours. I will not say whether you will apologize to me or not in the future for that is up to you for you can choose to change or choose to continue listening to the false spirits who imitate God but are not of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]My request for an example of a believer being demon possessed is not moot for the bible continues past Pentacost and you find no example there or no prediction of it in the old testament. There are no examples of believers being demon possessed. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]In the verse on the strongman the strongman is actually the person who can give themselves either to the Spirit of God by salvation, be empty (dead in trespasses and sins) or be spiritually tied up by the devil. The house belongs to the person. Jesus speaks that a house cannot be divided, that is it can't be both occupied by Satan and God's Spirit. It is you who doesn't understand.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You believe you are a leader to disciple but you need to humble yourself for you don't understand the scriptures so you shouldn't be discipling anyone. My hope is that you will look beyond your pride realizing God's Word is of far more value than speaking of yourself and what you see as your achievements. In Christ there is no I. It is putting aside self and the boast of self accomplishments and being in Christ's works the one who gets all the glory for all true Spirit filled works.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them (Eph 2:8-10).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]None of us have anything to boast in and maybe one day you will realize that it is not a competition but a collaboration of love in Christ.

May you be blessed with love and understanding.
[/SIZE]
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,034
14,947
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Actually you are listening to the wrong voice which is shown by your lack of understanding of the scriptures.
[SIZE=10.5pt]No, I'm not honey but you can say what you want because It really doesn't make any difference to me what you think.[/SIZE]

I have continually spoken of the fruit of the Spirit and you have continually ignored the fruit and switched the subject over to being drunk in the flesh. I will say it again. The fruit of the Spirit is always the fruit of the Spirit. Self control is always the fruit of the Spirit. The verse about being drunk in the flesh which you, not I keep mentioning, does not impact the fact that the fruit is the fruit.
[SIZE=10.5pt]You are continuously using the "fruit of the Spirit" scripture out of context, trying to associate what is of the flesh, Galatians 5:19 which is a list of physical works or actions of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit listed in Galatians 5:22[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]For instance, If you begin with the physical outworking of the flesh like "adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries," You can clearly see that this is a list of those who indulge in fleshly [/SIZE]carnal desires. You cannot place a spiritual attribute among them ie: "spiritual drunkenness" because it is not consistent with the list provided.

God tells me things about people as well. However, I don't argue from experiential as you do for that is not proof for even psychics and many in the New Age do the same but by dark spirits.
[SIZE=10.5pt]You would know that you know that you know that God is in the house when you are among those who have ever experienced such an outpouring. My last "power from on high" moment came upon me just before I went into the mission fields of Thailand. Three Pastors from three different Churches prayed for me and I was so glad that they did because Thailand is hard ground especially spiritually because their gods do not like gospel preached "for it is the power that leads to salvation." [/SIZE]

As far as Joel I referred to it because you tried to make a point from it. Even though it doesn't specifically say speaking in tongues all who were engaged in the activity were of a sound mind (biblical) and had self control (biblical).
[SIZE=10.5pt]Slain and drunk in the Spirit is not of a sound mind and not of self control so AGAIN this is why I say these things are not of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]You weren't there, they may have been exhibiting manifestations due to the force of such a powerful outpouring. One of the onlookers stated that they must be drunk. Surely a drunk person cannot learn their language under the influence of alcohol. Consider...[/SIZE]

Now Saul earlier in Samuel already had the Spirit of God depart from him and was continually bothered by an evil spirit.
[SIZE=10pt]"But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him" (1 Sa 16:14).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]So why did Saul remove his clothes (that is kingly garments) as he prophesied (he didn't fall backward and go unconscious but with full awareness lay there)?[/SIZE]

Given, but my point here was "I'm sure you would consider Sauls actions as unbiblical and out of control as well. Yet it is God who has done this and he has a purpose and plan for all things ~ not us."
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
Naked can be translated poorly clothed and Saul removing his kingly garments is showing humility. Saul in his humble clothing was showing his humility before God especially he had to know that he was being bothered by the evil spirit and he knew Samuel could possibly help him if he showed humility.
[SIZE=10.5pt]This is like when David wore humble clothing (rather than kingly) dancing before the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]So no, I don't think this is unbiblical or out of control like slain/drunk in the Spirit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]The word "naked" in Adam and Eve's case is used here in relation to: Saul ~ "arom" which means nude, either partially or totally. However we already know that Adam and Eve were naked in the garden because God clothed them with tunics of skin later on when they disobeyed him. So we can deduce that the word naked is a general term used to define a number of implications.[/SIZE]

I have my understanding by the Holy Spirit. However since we are both saying something different the bible shows what is true.
[SIZE=10.5pt]I think the problem here is that you have knowledge of the word but you have not gone out into the field yet and put action/feet to your knowledge. If you had you would not be debating with me on this subject at all.[/SIZE]

Actually it is you who is following a false spirit saying it is the Holy Spirit. I have experienced the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and it is not slain/drunk in the spirit behavior. I have given scripture to back up my points but you have not backed up yours. I will not say whether you will apologize to me or not in the future for that is up to you for you can choose to change or choose to continue listening to the false spirits who imitate God but are not of God.
[SIZE=10.5pt]I will forgive you for your lack of understanding however, your fallacy regarding giving you scripture is piling up in the posts behind you. Yes you will apoligize to me but you will also be flowing in the anointing by then... with a few exploits under your belt. ^_^ [/SIZE]

My request for an example of a believer being demon possessed is not moot for the bible continues past Pentacost and you find no example there or no prediction of it in the old testament. There are no examples of believers being demon possessed.
[SIZE=10.5pt]This cannot be any more clearer since the bible ends basically at Acts when the Holy Spirit came down upon believers at Pentecost and they moved in the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit. As I have explained in the posts above...your point is moot because there was nothing written after these events accept for historical records and that which is to come in the book of Revelation.[/SIZE]

In the verse on the strongman the strongman is actually the person who can give themselves either to the Spirit of God by salvation, be empty (dead in trespasses and sins) or be spiritually tied up by the devil. The house belongs to the person. Jesus speaks that a house cannot be divided, that is it can't be both occupied by Satan and God's Spirit. It is you who doesn't understand.
[SIZE=10.5pt]You really don't know what you are talking about and it becomes more clearer as you continue to explain your self, styled, bible knowledge...That is not the meaning of this verse. The strongman relates to something that holds the house/person and protects it from being invaded. This relates to a demonic force. "He who is stronger" relates to the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that the house cannot be divided against itself" meaning that " An evil force cannot protect his house against something already evil. He said this because they were accusing him of getting his power from Beelzebub, the ruler of demons. <_< [/SIZE]

You believe you are a leader to disciple but you need to humble yourself for you don't understand the scriptures so you shouldn't be discipling anyone. My hope is that you will look beyond your pride realizing God's Word is of far more value than speaking of yourself and what you see as your achievements. In Christ there is no I. It is putting aside self and the boast of self accomplishments and being in Christ's works the one who gets all the glory for all true Spirit filled works.
[SIZE=10.5pt]The hardest people to disciple are those who have incorrect doctrine implanted in their heads at the beginning of their walk with God. This cannot be easily removed because they have started their understanding on shaky foundations. I'm really sorry that you have mistaken truth for pride. As I have stated in my last post...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I hope you find the answers to your questions because you certainly aren't listening to me and I doubt that you will listen to others who have served many years for Christ and have fruit to prove it. [/SIZE]

I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your heart through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. Ephesians 3:16-21

Shalom Achoti!
 

GodcallsmeOlivia

New Member
Aug 11, 2015
23
0
0
God asked me why I was continuing in this conversation with you and likened it to me wasting my time as if trying to convince Satan so I will not be responding to you any longer.
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,034
14,947
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
GodcallsmeOlivia said:
God asked me why I was continuing in this conversation with you and likened it to me wasting my time as if trying to convince Satan so I will not be responding to you any longer.
The Holy Spirit is grieved by your words...

Blessings to you and Peace from God!
i41k01.gif
 

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hi everyone. I am 73 years old and have been a christian for 62 of those years. I was used by God along with handful of others to bring revival to a church that grew from about 100 to a 1,000.

I spent 10 years in church that was in revival for 30 years in the UK. From this one church, hundreds sprung up all over the country.

I have studied in depth church life and leadership from the day of Pentecost. I am not saying this to get you to "look at me" but to let you know I am well versed in this sort of thing through study and experience.

I have attended churches that were very small and a few that were and are very big.

What I have seen and learnt is this. You cannot tell God what he can and cannot do if you want a visitation from him. I did a study of revival whilst I was at Bible College and it was obvious there was a pattern to them. They happened when people stopped what they were doing and let God decide the agenda.

The Welsh revival is a case in question. It emanated out of Rees Howells Bible College of Wales. it came when all study had stopped and the students got on their knees and asked God to visit them.

When you look at the church today those that are operating under the 'business as usual" methodology, are stagnating or declining. Those that are operating under the "whatever it takes" methodology are growing and maturing. A pentecostal church can be operating under the "business as usual" methodology as much as an Anglican church is.

I am very blessed to be part of a church that operates under "whatever it takes" methodology. We don't tell God what to do. He tells us what to do. Last Sunday we sang a song with four lines for 15 minutes. Why did we do that? Simple. We could not not do it because God was in the place. We didn't stop after five minutes because we had to take the offering or give the notices. We kept going because that is what God wanted as he said he inhabits the praises of his people and last Sunday morning he sure did.

Our meetings go for about two hours. I say about because if God shows up and wants us to go for three hours we will go three hours. We have thousands who come to our meetings because they know that it is not business as usual. Hardly a week goes by that someone isn't saved in the meeting. Sometimes we get more people saved in a meeting than some churches have in attendance.

We have decided that we will major on praise because God inhabits the praises of his people and we want God to inhabit our meeting so that is the best way for it to happen. When we praise we raise the roof. Joy fills the place. People are filled to overflowing. Take it from me. God loves it. The focus of most of our songs is one person and that is Jesus. We can sing about Jesus all day long.

We do a lot of praying corporately and individually. When we pray especially for individuals we don't tell God how it has to happen. When you are submitted to God anything can happen. If you are not submitted to God, you can sing and pray all day long and nothing will happen. If you are afraid to let God have his way nothing will happen.

If God wanted to overwhelm you with his power and you can't contain it so you fall under his power, telling him it is wrong is trying to do something about it after the horse has bolted. If you tell God that you want all there is to have but on your terms, forget it. All you will get is what you want. You won't get what he wants.

The thing that those who operate on the basis of business as usual don't realise is that in most cases God has left the building. Jesus said he would build HIS CHURCH, not ours. Unless he builds the church we labour in vain. He can only build the church when he is Lord of all and that means he calls the tune, not us. Anything less than that is man labouring under his own steam.

If he wants to knock you for six as part of his plan for you and his church, you are a fool if you stand in his way. I have heard all sorts of criticisms of the way people are slain by the power of the spirit. So often those criticising totally ignore the end result. A greater understanding of who God is. A greater love for Jesus. A greater power in ministry. A greater compassion for the lost. A greater desire to die to self. A greater desire to serve him. A greater desire to walk the walk. A greater desire to be more like Jesus. One could go on and on.

The arrogance of some people is such that they will call the work of the Holy Spirit the work of Satan and that is the unforgivable sin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingJ

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
I have only ever found one place in my Bible where Jesus knocks anyone backward:

Joh 18:2 And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples.
Joh 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Joh 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

And the men struggled to their feet, and continued with the arrest.
Now, me, I would have been to terrified to speak...but evidently these guys weren't very bright...or maybe they were more frightened of the Sanhedrin than they were of being knocked over...

Next, Peter grabs his sword and slices off Malchus' ear (Malchus was their leader).
But Jesus healed the ear, and most of the disciples scattered.
Me, I'm pretty sure I would have run, right beside them. I sure wouldn't want to have anything further to do with this Guy! But again, they were probably scared of the Sanhedrin...
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingJ

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The Barrd said:
I have only ever found one place in my Bible where Jesus knocks anyone backward:
Joh 18:2-6
And the men struggled to their feet, and continued with the arrest.
Now, me, I would have been to terrified to speak...but evidently these guys weren't very bright...or maybe they were more frightened of the Sanhedrin than they were of being knocked over...

Next, Peter grabs his sword and slices off Malchus' ear (Malchus was their leader).
But Jesus healed the ear, and most of the disciples scattered.
Me, I'm pretty sure I would have run, right beside them. I sure wouldn't want to have anything further to do with this Guy! But again, they were probably scared of the Sanhedrin...
I think you will note that the exact wording is "they drew back and fell to the ground". This phrase is used a few times in the NT, Matt 18:26,29; Mark 14:35; Acts 22:7, and this "falling" connotes becoming prostrate before Jesus. As I have stated in this thread back at post #27, and IMO, that is what is conveyed here.

Being saved in a Pentecostal church, I saw this regularly but God never slew me in the Spirit. I did go down once, ONLY because I was arm and arm with another person who did. I quickly got back up. I don't discount it as a reality, but it has never happened to me and in most cases I believe it is emotional more than anything. Maybe God will knock me down one day, but I doubt it.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
StanJ said:
I think you will note that the exact wording is "they drew back and fell to the ground". This phrase is used a few times in the NT, Matt 18:26,29; Mark 14:35; Acts 22:7, and this "falling" connotes becoming prostrate before Jesus. As I have stated in this thread back at post #27, and IMO, that is what is conveyed here.

Being saved in a Pentecostal church, I saw this regularly but God never slew me in the Spirit. I did go down once, ONLY because I was arm and arm with another person who did. I quickly got back up. I don't discount it as a reality, but it has never happened to me and in most cases I believe it is emotional more than anything. Maybe God will knock me down one day, but I doubt it.
I had one guy try to shove me over once in a Pentecostal church.
I had gone up with my daughter for prayer. When the pastor got to me, he put his hand on my forehead and pushed. I did not go down. So, he pushed harder. I spread my legs a bit locked my knees...he continued to push and started intoning "let go and let God, let go and let God"...
Now, people had dropped on either side of me and were twitching and moaning. One lady sounded almost hysterical...but still this man pushed me. Finally, after several minutes, the guy moved on.
Later, after the service was over and he was meeting people at the door, he took my hand and told me that he had felt "great spiritual strength" coming from me. I merely smiled.

And did I mention that, while I was up front being pushed, someone else was stealing my purse and my sweater from where I had left them in the pew?
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
The Barrd said:
I had one guy try to shove me over once in a Pentecostal church.
I had gone up with my daughter for prayer. When the pastor got to me, he put his hand on my forehead and pushed. I did not go down. So, he pushed harder. I spread my legs a bit locked my knees...he continued to push and started intoning "let go and let God, let go and let God"...
Now, people had dropped on either side of me and were twitching and moaning. One lady sounded almost hysterical...but still this man pushed me. Finally, after several minutes, the guy moved on.
Later, after the service was over and he was meeting people at the door, he took my hand and told me that he had felt "great spiritual strength" coming from me. I merely smiled.

And did I mention that, while I was up front being pushed, someone else was stealing my purse and my sweater from where I had left them in the pew?
I'm curious, Stan...what sorts of spiritual manifestations have been evident in you?
Do you speak in tongues?
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The Barrd said:
I had one guy try to shove me over once in a Pentecostal church.
I had gone up with my daughter for prayer. When the pastor got to me, he put his hand on my forehead and pushed. I did not go down. So, he pushed harder. I spread my legs a bit locked my knees...he continued to push and started intoning "let go and let God, let go and let God"...
Now, people had dropped on either side of me and were twitching and moaning. One lady sounded almost hysterical...but still this man pushed me. Finally, after several minutes, the guy moved on.
Later, after the service was over and he was meeting people at the door, he took my hand and told me that he had felt "great spiritual strength" coming from me. I merely smiled.

And did I mention that, while I was up front being pushed, someone else was stealing my purse and my sweater from where I had left them in the pew?
I can't believe you've encountered so many BAD representatives of the Pentecostal denominations, but then again, I see BAD representations of Christians all day long, so I guess you're not alone in being disappointed.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The Barrd said:
I'm curious, Stan...what sorts of spiritual manifestations have been evident in you?
Do you speak in tongues?
Tongues and Interpretation, Prophecy, Word of Knowledge, Wisdom, and I believe Healing, but was never able to confirm it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.