Isaiah 17 war

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. Read Revelation Chapter 5 and up. The outpouring of God's wrath begins with the breaking of the seven seals which are in this order1st Seal: The False Christ2nd Seal: War3rd Seal: Famine4th Seal: Death5th Seal: The Raising of the Martyrs into Heaven6th Seal: TerrorInterlude7th Seal: The Tumpets1st Trumpet: Hail and fire, mixed with blood 1/3rd of the earth burned up2nd Trumpet: Something like a great mounatin thrown into the sea; 1/3rd of the sea becomes blood.3rd Trumpet: A great star falls from heaven burning up 1/3rd of the rivers and springs of water.4th Trumpet: 1/3rd of the sun, 1/3rd of the moon, 1/3rd of the stars go dark, day light only lasts for a third of the day5th Trumpet: Pestilence from the bottomless pit6th Trumpet: 1/3rd of the world's population killed by armies led by four angels currently bound in the great river EuphratesBetween this and the 7th trumpet is the execution and raising of the two witnesses7th Trumpet: Christ's Reign Foreseen.This isn't even counting the 7 plagues, nor the armies that amass against Israel. Also keep in mind that much of this happens in the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 years of Tribulation. Clearly God's wrath is going to be poured out BEFORE the 7th trump.

This first seal we will see in detail in the ninth chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first morning star to come. This event will catch many Christians off-guard, for many tie themselves to the '"rapture doctrine", and will worship the Antichrist as the true Christ, in ignorance. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous, for it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the Antichrist.

Revelation 6 Keep in mind that the seals are Not in chronological order as far as time is concerned, but are given in chronological order for a better understanding of events that will take place. The seals are a teaching tool. The trumps and the vials are in chronological order as far as time is concerned. However... The sixth seal, the sixth trump, and the sixth vial all align in order and refer to the time of Anti-Christ (666). 1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. One of the first living creatures (Angels) opened the first seal. 2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. The white horse here represents the Anti-Christ and the bow described here means (Toxon) Strong's Concordance Greek Dictionary #5115 meaning a cheap fabrication or fake. The Anti-Christ come first before the real Christ and he is coming in peace to play savior. (Remember Matthew 24:4-5 and Mark 13:5-6) Christ has foretold us all things. 3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. One of the second living creatures. 4And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. (Remember the wars and rumors of wars mentioned in Matthew 24:6 and Mark 13:7) Satan will utilize this time to try to bring peace to the earth gaining favor with those who follow him. Through his peace he will deceive and destroy many. (Daniel 8:25). 5And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. Balances stands for justice, and black represents famine. There will be famines in the land just as there is today, but the famine in the end time is not for bread or water, but for hearing the truth of God's Word. (Reference: Amos 8:11-12). 6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. There will be famines in the land as stated in (Matthew 24:7 and Mark 13:8) and a time is coming when you will work a full day for a loaf of bread. Were not that far off now with the rising cost of living. People barely getting by working paycheck to paycheck, without even a dollar left over at the end of the day. 7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. The fourth living creature says to look with understanding. 8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. We are speaking here of the "Beast System" that looks so religious, but is controlled by Satan. (Remember that Satan represents death). 9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Back to the beginning of time, all those souls who stood up for the Word of God. 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? The revenge of the Lord for all those souls that were persecuted for following God. 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. This refers to the ones who remain on earth till this day that will also be persecuted for their faith. We will be delivered up before Satan at the hour of temptation. (Reference: Mark 13:9-12) Again, Christ has foretold us all things. (Mark 13:13-23). But those who remain faithful till the end, not one hair on our heads will be touched. (Reference: Luke 21:18). 12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; The sky turns dark because of all the deception and lies. 13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. The figs that are harvested out of season. This is the time when Satan is already on the scene and will be exposed. (666), The sixth seal, the sixth vial, and the sixth trump. Then after these days of the tribulation, "Not before" is when the real Christ shall appear. (Reference: Mark 13:24-27). This is when our gathering back to Christ will be. (Reference: II Thessalonians 2). 14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. This is the time when the second Heaven age ends and the third heaven age begins. 15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; All that were deceived that are in shame for what they believed in and taught to others. Super preachers, phony pastors, and false teachers! 16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: They will want to die because they are ashamed and let Satan and false teachings deceive them. 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Remember "Revelations Chapter 1 verse 10" this is the Lord's Day, and the wrath of the Lord has come! Who will survive It? There is two tribulations. The tribulation of anti-Christ which comes first and then the tribulation of the real Christ. The first tribulation we stand against the anti-Christ and if you are in Christ, you do not need to worry about the second tribulation, Christ is not coming to harm you.

I'm sorry but you are, again, mistaken.The timeline, as in the Bible: Book of Revelation starting in Chapter 6, it goes like this.Seals 1-6, interlude, seal 7 and beginning of the 7 trumpets.Trumpets 1-6, Angel and the Little Book, the two witnesses, 7th trumpetThere are also 7 plagues and 7 bowls of wrathIt goes 7 seals, 7 trumpets followed by the the 7 bowls of wrath, in that order according to the book of Revelation. In fact it SPECIFICLY says that the trumpets don't start until the seventh seal is broken.

There is no rapture in Gods Word it has never been found thats why its called a theroy and the sight is wrong about the rapture and wrong about the sequense of events I have given you the truth of the Word and the correct order if you choose not to listen thats your choice,

No you have not, and as a Christian I rebuke it.The Bible CLEARLY and, without any confusion states that the breaking of the seventh seal marks the beginning of the seven trumpets. I've read it and I understand what it means. I've read the book of Revelation several times as its one my favorite books of the Bible. God's timeline is clearly expressed beginning in chapter 6. There are interludes to be sure, clearly defined in the book of Revelations as well. I understand things better than you think.By the way I took down the site from my post because I looked it over in greater detail and decided that I wasn't sure enough of its veracity. Don't make the mistake of underestimating my inteligance and for sure don't make the mistake of assuming that you are the arbiter of truth. Only God has that jurisdiction and if I was wrong He would convict me of it.

(jkdjr25;24435)
No you have not, and as a Christian I rebuke it.The Bible CLEARLY and, without any confusion states that the breaking of the seventh seal marks the beginning of the seven trumpets. I've read it and I understand what it means. I've read the book of Revelation several times as its one my favorite books of the Bible. God's timeline is clearly expressed beginning in chapter 6. There are interludes to be sure, clearly defined in the book of Revelations as well. I understand things better than you think.By the way I took down the site from my post because I looked it over in greater detail and decided that I wasn't sure enough of its veracity. Don't make the mistake of underestimating my inteligance and for sure don't make the mistake of assuming that you are the arbiter of truth. Only God has that jurisdiction and if I was wrong He would convict me of it.
May you explain the word "after the tribulation" at verse Matthew 24:29 please jkdjr25?And where do you put II Thessalonians 2 at?Jag

Actually no I won't place them because you wouldn't believe me anyway. God would convict my heart if I had misinterpreted what I think. I believe that to the core of my being. I've explained my rationale only to be told that there was no difference between the context of escaping the wrath of God and being protected from evil. You don't want to debate, you want me to admit that I'm wrong, and I'm sorry but that's just not going to happen.I've thought about this and thought about it, done research on my own and listened to different teachings on it. I believe what I know to be correct and I am unshakable in that faith. Just as I am unshakable in my faith that I am saved by the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ and His glorious resurection. I will not be talked down to because I happen to believe that the rapture is real. I've stated the logic and common sense reasons why I think the way I do and not one person has bothered to try and answer my question.What I got was, "well its just this way", or "there's no difference between Noah escaping the outpouring of God's wrath and Daniel being protected from evil." That's not true and you know it. The context is completely different, as well it should be. God's pattern has always been one of allowing the righteous in His eyes to escape the outpouring of His Divine wrath. Just as it was His pattern to also protect the faithful from the harm of evildoers. If we face the judgement wrath of God how can we claim to worship a JUST God? No one has tried to answer that because you can't with the argument you put forth. I'm not about to say that I'm perfect because the Lord knows that I'm not, but if there's one thing I am certain of it's God's nature; and His nature never changes.

Revelation 15 1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. The wrath of God for those He is angry with.Satan gets kicked to earth in Rev 9 at the 5th/6th trump it is Satan and those that follow him that causes Gods wrath. Satan comes first and He comes in peacfully and prosperously claiming to be christ here to save the world. If you dont get that you will be fooledRev 9:1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.who do you think this Star is? Satan is called the morning star

What is the seventh seal??

It is becoming increasingly obvious that you belive that your, and only your, interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. At least in your mind. I, however, am a literalist. The Bible says the trumpets come after the seals so that's what I believe and I will not be budged on that.I am the mountain and I will not be moved.As I said the seventh seal is the BEGINNING of the seven trumpets. It says so in Revelation and I've been hammering that point all night.

The seventh seal says there is silence in heaven for 1/2 hour right why is there silence?because Satan gets kicked out and is no longer accussing night and day why Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! Then what is rev 9:11The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.It is you being stuborn and not seeing what is being said.If you read it your way it makes no sense but belive as you will

I read it exactly how it is written. That's why I'm so stubborn, I know when I'm right.As for this thread, and maybe even this forum I am done. It is precisely this level of arrogance and refusal to answer questions that drove me out of the church to begin with. I didn't tolerate it then and I sure won't tolerate it now.Have a nice life everyone. I'll continue to keep my faith in the way God leads me, and if I return, well then that's what God wills for my life.

How can your questions be answered when you will not listen to the answers we are trying to explain the order so that we can show you the answer you dont have to except the answers but you wont even listen to our explanation because you are too set in your attitude to be shown the answer.If you think you already have all the answers why do you have questions? . You can keep running all you like but the Word is very clear when get rid of preconceived ideas and come to the word as an innocent child till then you will never find the answers.All I can say is we have told you the truth not our truth Gods truth. You either have eyes to see or you dont If you think you are going to fly outta here and then Gods going to pour out his wrath on everyone you are mistakenIll warn you again there is not one verse in Gods word about any rapture.Heres a gen. run down you can accept it or not There is a deadly wound to the one world system Satan gets kicked to earth and heals the deadly wound and claims to be christ(antichrist) the two wittness are preaching against him half way through the tribulation Satan declares himself to be God he kills the two wittness's who lay dead in the street for three dayswhile the world celebrates Christ returns and pours out his wrath on Satan and his followers not those who overcome and do not take the mark of the beast(which is to believe antichrist is Christ) one last thing the tribulation has been shortened to 5 month period for the Elects sake Rev 9:5/9:10Rev. gives you differnt pictures of whats happing in heaven and on earth and also to the followers of Satan and the Elect that overcome it is not all in perfect order and part is literal and part is symbolicGood luck and God bless

Let me explain this one more time for you.1. I have read and re-read the book of Revelation. 2. It states, quite clearly, that the trumpets are sounded AFTER the seven seals.3. After the seven trumpets come the seven bowls of God's wrath.There will be death and destruction on a massive scale even BEFORE the bowls are poured out. If God is true to His nature, and I belive he is, then the righteous MUST be raptured out of this world in order to escape His wrath. That's always been His patter. Every. Single. Time.Please do not bring up Daniel again as it is not within the context of what I've been saying.Further please illuminate me on the thing I keep asking yet you keep dodging.How can we claim to follow and worship a just God if He goes against His own nature and allows us to suffer His wrath during the Great Tribulation? Wouldn't His doing that meant that He had lied about His nature to us?I'm asking this because I want to understand how you think on this. Keep in mind that during the Tribulation passages the Church is not mentioned as the Holy Spirit has been withdrawn from the world because of the rampant wickedness. Knowing all that can you please answer the above question.

(jkdjr25;24463)
Let me explain this one more time for you.1. I have read and re-read the book of Revelation.
That probably applies to all of us on this forum.
2. It states, quite clearly, that the trumpets are sounded AFTER the seven seals.3. After the seven trumpets come the seven bowls of God's wrath.There will be death and destruction on a massive scale even BEFORE the bowls are poured out. If God is true to His nature, and I belive he is, then the righteous MUST be raptured out of this world in order to escape His wrath. That's always been His patter. Every. Single. Time.Please do not bring up Daniel again as it is not within the context of what I've been saying.
Daniel is an overlay of Revelation....they go hand in hand.
Further please illuminate me on the thing I keep asking yet you keep dodging.How can we claim to follow and worship a just God if He goes against His own nature and allows us to suffer His wrath during the Great Tribulation? Wouldn't His doing that meant that He had lied about His nature to us?
He does not go against His nature. He does not allow us to suffer wrath but many will chose to suffer His wrath because during the tribulation of Satan, which Christ referred to as the "great tribulation" they will take the mark of the beast. When they do that, take the mark, then they are subject to the wrath of God which comes AFTER the tribulation.Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.That is the time Satan is on earth pretending to be Christ. That is a time of deception....he wants to keep your soul from God and he can't take a Christian that has loved God all their life and make them change...unless it is with deception. Most will believe he is our Saviour and that is taking the mark of the beast. So....the only "wrath" suffered during that time is that many will believe his lies. The true Christ arrives after that "great tribulation."Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Why do all the tribes mourn? Because they followed Satan and now they realize they were deceived.
I'm asking this because I want to understand how you think on this. Keep in mind that during the Tribulation passages the Church is not mentioned as the Holy Spirit has been withdrawn from the world because of the rampant wickedness. Knowing all that can you please answer the above question.
In Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 - the Olivet Prophecies, Christ tells us what is expected of us during end times.....it is not to fly away. We will be here and He instructs us on what must be done.So...no one is "dodging" your question. If you go through the tribulation of Satan and stay true, wait for our Saviour and not take the mark....then you are protected during the wrath of God....as was Daniel, Noah, etc. If someone does take the mark it could be because God has blinded them for a purpose, or they weren't properly taught, or didn't understand His letter and believed they wouldn't be here during that time or.....just didn't care. Whatever it is, the choice is theirs just as it is yours to believe in rapture or mine to understand it is a very diabolic teaching.........Whirlwind

As whirlwind says it makes no difference how many times you read rev I am older than you and most likley have read it more what dose that have to do with anything if you dont know how to rightly divide the word and understand Gods plan and the symbology and how to understand the hebrew and deeper things than the surface text you can read it a million times and not get it.Daniel and Genisis are related to Rev as well as other procheys in Mark,Luke and Mathew so unless you get how these other books and prophecys shed light on Rev. you wont get all the details. Do you realize that trumpets always mean the start of the Action the trumpets are blown to start a feast or an action the seals are the actions that happen.The trumpets are in order 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, the seals are not unless you think Satan is getting kicked out of heaven twice once at the seventh seal and once at the 5th/6th trump. As I said its learning to rightly divide the Word.

So what you're saying is that Revelation is wrong then. It says, quite plainly that the breaking of the seventh seal marks the beginning of the trumpets. I haven't misread that it says it. Seals, trumpets, then bowls in that order, that's how they're presented.BTW age has nothing to do with it. I'm very strong in my faith and have faced down people who hated Christianity with every fibre of their being. I have stood in the midst of the fire and done so gladly. My understanding of things, as I said previously, is based on logic and common sense.God has not, does not and will not allow the righteous to be punished alongside the wicked. He's never done it before and if He allows it during the Tribulation then His nature has changed, which is impossible.Trying to tell me that I'm not a real Christian because I believe in the Rapture is insulting at best. I'm not trying to change your mind by the way, I'd just like some commentary on the logic behind your views. Not just "this is the way it is". Jesus encouraged us to reason together, so that's what I'm asking for. Reason.

(jkdjr25;24511)
So what you're saying is that Revelation is wrong then. It says, quite plainly that the breaking of the seventh seal marks the beginning of the trumpets. I haven't misread that it says it. Seals, trumpets, then bowls in that order, that's how they're presented.BTW age has nothing to do with it. I'm very strong in my faith and have faced down people who hated Christianity with every fibre of their being. I have stood in the midst of the fire and done so gladly. My understanding of things, as I said previously, is based on logic and common sense.God has not, does not and will not allow the righteous to be punished alongside the wicked. He's never done it before and if He allows it during the Tribulation then His nature has changed, which is impossible.Trying to tell me that I'm not a real Christian because I believe in the Rapture is insulting at best. I'm not trying to change your mind by the way, I'd just like some commentary on the logic behind your views. Not just "this is the way it is". Jesus encouraged us to reason together, so that's what I'm asking for. Reason.
Luke 12:51 - Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:I don't think you realize this. Christianity is too busy having sex with Lucy. (Satan)Jag

(jkdjr25;24511)
So what you're saying is that Revelation is wrong then. It says, quite plainly that the breaking of the seventh seal marks the beginning of the trumpets. I haven't misread that it says it. Seals, trumpets, then bowls in that order, that's how they're presented.BTW age has nothing to do with it. I'm very strong in my faith and have faced down people who hated Christianity with every fibre of their being. I have stood in the midst of the fire and done so gladly. My understanding of things, as I said previously, is based on logic and common sense.God has not, does not and will not allow the righteous to be punished alongside the wicked. He's never done it before and if He allows it during the Tribulation then His nature has changed, which is impossible.Trying to tell me that I'm not a real Christian because I believe in the Rapture is insulting at best. I'm not trying to change your mind by the way, I'd just like some commentary on the logic behind your views. Not just "this is the way it is". Jesus encouraged us to reason together, so that's what I'm asking for. Reason.
being strong in faith and rightly diviing the word are two differnt things you keep saying you have read the seals are first why dont you show me where?As I said accoring to you Satan comes twice? and you call that common sense If you think that you are flying away wheres your proof you have said alot but not given one scripture to back up anything you say.