SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT?

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IanLC

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Encounter Team
Mar 22, 2011
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I've seen people "slain in the Spirit", "falling under the power of God" and I have personally been consumed by the presence of the Holy Spirit and fell out! It's not something every Christian will experience but it has been a benefit to my personal relationship with God and has blessed me. Not in the actual being slain in the Spirit but that God is working in those precious moments where I have been slain. If it happens to you thank God if not still thank God! But for me its been a blessing!
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
UHCAIan said:
I've seen people "slain in the Spirit", "falling under the power of God" and I have personally been consumed by the presence of the Holy Spirit and fell out! It's not something every Christian will experience but it has been a benefit to my personal relationship with God and has blessed me. Not in the actual being slain in the Spirit but that God is working in those precious moments where I have been slain. If it happens to you thank God if not still thank God! But for me its been a blessing!
Okay, I'm listening. How did your experience benefit your personal relationship with God? How were you blessed? You say that God is working in those precious moments where you have been "slain"....could you explain that, please? What, exactly, was God doing while you were "wriggling around" on the floor?

And again, where do you see any Biblical authority for this rather recent phenomenon?
I've been asking all through this thread for someone to show me one shred of evidence that this comes from God, and not from Satan. So far, not one jot or tittle has emerged.

What have you got?
 

IanLC

Active Member
Encounter Team
Mar 22, 2011
862
80
28
North Carolina
The Barrd said:
Okay, I'm listening. How did your experience benefit your personal relationship with God? How were you blessed? You say that God is working in those precious moments where you have been "slain"....could you explain that, please? What, exactly, was God doing while you were "wriggling around" on the floor?

And again, where do you see any Biblical authority for this rather recent phenomenon?
I've been asking all through this thread for someone to show me one shred of evidence that this comes from God, and not from Satan. So far, not one jot or tittle has emerged.

What have you got?
First, I'm not answering in debate or in strife. Whether you believe me or not is your prerogative. When I say that God is working He is by His Spirit the Lord speaks to me and gives me strength. When I say I have been slain I can count it on my hand the number of times its not a regular occurrence. When the Holy Ghost sometimes He comes so mighty and great that one's physical body (as well as their spirit) will react whether in tongues, praise, worship, dancing, running or even falling out. This doesn't happen to all but to those who avail themselves to these blessings (Matthew 9:29). Many of the prophets of the Old Testament fell down when seeing visions of the Lord and being in His presence. Sometimes we react to God's presence in unusual ways and others may think its strange or crazy! Look at the 120 in the Upper Room (Act 2). If one attributes it to satan I would caution that individual because one could be blaspheming a true work of God in the life or another person. I have truly been blessed by those few experiences of being slain in the Spirit and I can not see satan doing something that would glorify God a lot of his works tend to do the opposite. As I stated before not all Christians will experience this but to those that have its been a blessing to those that haven't its of no issue, concern or harm to them. These occurrences of the Holy Spirit are not new and were happening in the Azusa Street revival in the early twentieth century and in the Great Awakenings of the 18th and 19th Century and all throughout church history in diverse places around the world. Many of the early church fathers spoke of the experiences in church assemblies Irenaeus is one who goes in depth. All in love and blessings Sis!
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
What, exactly, is the Holy Spirit, anyway...or should I say Who is He?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Such a precious promise here. "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
The Holy Spirit, then, is our Comforter. What a beautiful thought.

But there is more:
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.


The Holy Spirit has a mission...and it is not, evidently, to put on a show for our entertainment.
No, He has a very important job...He must teach us all things, and bring all things to our remembrance, whatsoever the Lord has said unto us. He keeps our wandering feet firmly on that narrow path that leads to life. What a blessing He is to us!

Oh, and did you notice? Jesus tells us that, if we love Him, we will keep His commandments.
Just thought I'd point that out, since so many seem to think that being "under grace" means that we need not worry about such things....
 

IanLC

Active Member
Encounter Team
Mar 22, 2011
862
80
28
North Carolina
The Barrd said:
What, exactly, is the Holy Spirit, anyway...or should I say Who is He?
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Such a precious promise here. "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
The Holy Spirit, then, is our Comforter. What a beautiful thought.

But there is more:
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.


The Holy Spirit has a mission...and it is not, evidently, to put on a show for our entertainment.
No, He has a very important job...He must teach us all things, and bring all things to our remembrance, whatsoever the Lord has said unto us. He keeps our wandering feet firmly on that narrow path that leads to life. What a blessing He is to us!

Oh, and did you notice? Jesus tells us that, if we love Him, we will keep His commandments.
Just thought I'd point that out, since so many seem to think that being "under grace" means that we need not worry about such things....
Praise God! And so very true! The Holy Ghost was sent to indwell in the believer and keep the believer from the power of sin by leading them into righteousness and holiness. In many of my post I strongly hold to belief of holy and righteous living and part of that is love! The gifts and manifestations of the Spirit are just minor mechanisms and blessings the Holy Ghost gives the believer and aid in the spreading of the love message the holy gospel of Jesus Christ. I am just speaking of them in this post because this topic has to do with a manifestation of the Spirit but I agree 100% the Spirit was sent for much more than that! I was taught growing up that the devil can shout, jump, speak in tongues, preach, love and holler but he cant live holy! You can manifest the gifts and still not be in right relationship with the Gift Giver!
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
UHCAIan said:
First, I'm not answering in debate or in strife. Whether you believe me or not is your prerogative. When I say that God is working He is by His Spirit the Lord speaks to me and gives me strength. When I say I have been slain I can count it on my hand the number of times its not a regular occurrence. When the Holy Ghost sometimes He comes so mighty and great that one's physical body will react whether in tongues, praise, worship, dancing, running or even falling out. This doesn't happen to all but to those who avail themselves to these blessings (Matthew 9:29). Many of the prophets of the Old Testament fell down when seeing visions of the Lord and being in His presence. Sometimes we react to God's presence in unusual ways and others may think its strange or crazy! Look at the 120 in the Upper Room (Act 2). If one attributes it to satan I would caution that individual because one could be blaspheming a true work of God in the life or another person. I have truly been blessed by those few experiences of being slain in the Spirit and I can not see satan doing something that would glorify God a lot of his works tend to do the opposite. As I stated before not all Christians will experience this but to those that have its been a blessing to those that haven't its of no issue, concern or harm to them. All in love and blessings Sis!
I totally appreciate that your answer is not in the spirit of debate or strife. I would rather that we sat down and reasoned these things together.
If you've been following the thread, you know that I live in "Pentecostal Central"....in Sunny Southern Alabama, a little over an hour out of Pensacola. The problem is that I've seen too many obvious fakes. Of course, I have considered that when God brings a true miracle, Satan quickly moves in with a counterfeit...unfortunately, so many people are clamoring for a sign, that they are, you should excuse the expression, "easy meat" for that adversary who rages up and down like a hungry lion, looking for gullible souls to devour.
You say that, for you, at least, the experience is rare. For too many, it seems to be a weekly occurrence. Answer the altar call, line up with all the rest of the faithful, get your touch on the forehead, and fall backwards into the waiting arms of the "catchers". So, tell me....do you think all of these are actual "slayings"? Or do you, like me, suspect that many, if not most of them are pure fakery?
You seem to be a very intelligent and devout Christian, and I respect that. How well do you know your Bible?
Can you show me these OT prophets who fell out in God's presence? Were they being knocked out....or were they falling on their faces in voluntary acts of worship? There is a heck of a difference, you know.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
UHCAIan said:
Praise God! And so very true! The Holy Ghost was sent to indwell in the believer and keep the believer from the power of sin by leading them into righteousness and holiness. In many of my post I strongly hold to belief of holy and righteous living and part of that is love! The gifts and manifestations of the Spirit are just minor mechanisms and blessings the Holy Ghost gives the believer and aid in the spreading of the love message the holy gospel of Jesus Christ. I am just speaking of them in this post because this topic has to do with a manifestation of the Spirit but I agree 100% the Spirit was sent for much more than that! I was taught growing up that the devil can shout, jump, speak in tongues, preach, love and holler but he cant live holy! You can manifest the gifts and still not be in right relationship with the Gift Giver!
Exactly! The devil can do all of those things...he can transform himself into an angel of light, even! Someone not grounded in Christ could and would be very easily led by such signs and wonders...indeed, these signs might lead away even the very elect! That is, if it were not for the True Holy Spirit within them, keeping them safe.
And, as you say, the devil cannot live holy. So, perhaps I am not far off when I say we must examine the fruit of those who make a habit of being "slain". Are they living Godly lives?
Unfortunately, the answer is all too often a resounding "NO!". I live in one of those small towns where everyone knows who is cheating who, and whose truck is parked next door....do you understand me? We have far to many Sunday Saints who turn out to be Saturday Sinners. Now, no one is perfect...God knows I've slipped a few times myself, and I have no stones to throw at anyone else...
Still, if one is going about bragging about how spiritual they are...speaking in tongues, falling under the power of the Spirit, etc....well, you'd expect to find flowers on their vine...not thorns.
 

IanLC

Active Member
Encounter Team
Mar 22, 2011
862
80
28
North Carolina
The Barrd said:
I totally appreciate that your answer is not in the spirit of debate or strife. I would rather that we sat down and reasoned these things together.
If you've been following the thread, you know that I live in "Pentecostal Central"....in Sunny Southern Alabama, a little over an hour out of Pensacola. The problem is that I've seen too many obvious fakes. Of course, I have considered that when God brings a true miracle, Satan quickly moves in with a counterfeit...unfortunately, so many people are clamoring for a sign, that they are, you should excuse the expression, "easy meat" for that adversary who rages up and down like a hungry lion, looking for gullible souls to devour.
You say that, for you, at least, the experience is rare. For too many, it seems to be a weekly occurrence. Answer the altar call, line up with all the rest of the faithful, get your touch on the forehead, and fall backwards into the waiting arms of the "catchers". So, tell me....do you think all of these are actual "slayings"? Or do you, like me, suspect that many, if not most of them are pure fakery?
You seem to be a very intelligent and devout Christian, and I respect that. How well do you know your Bible?
Can you show me these OT prophets who fell out in God's presence? Were they being knocked out....or were they falling on their faces in voluntary acts of worship? There is a heck of a difference, you know.
Sis, I am not naive. Growing up Pentecostal Holiness Christian tradition and I still am I've seen the real and the fake. My take and what I was taught is that the manifestations of the Spirit can happen to anyone but the true test is the lifestyle of the believer after all that is done. The devil can imitate and mimic these things and most certainly does but that is not for me to decide who is genuine and who is not for God looks at the heart and will do the separating! Even though the Holy Ghost gives discernment and can reveal things. The old church mothers and fathers taught us that when God did show these things we were to pray for the individual and if we did confront them confront them in love! The prophets fell down most on their knees and beheld the glory of the Lord and some fell on their faces. I have seen people fall forward, backwards and even sideways I don't think the posture of the body matters much but the intent of the heart and the Spirit's work on the inside. Me myself when I have fell under the power of God no one laid hands on me! The Spirit Himself touched me. And I didn't jerk or wiggle around I see those manifestations as a little suspect but I just begin to pray and call on the name of Jesus. Expressive worship is shown through the word (2 Samuel 6:14; Acts 2:1-4; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-6; the entire book of Psalms especially Psalm 150; Exodus 15:20) and being of the African American Christian persuasion rhythm, movement and emotion are apart of our worship and Church experience.
 

IanLC

Active Member
Encounter Team
Mar 22, 2011
862
80
28
North Carolina
The Barrd said:
Exactly! The devil can do all of those things...he can transform himself into an angel of light, even! Someone not grounded in Christ could and would be very easily led by such signs and wonders...indeed, these signs might lead away even the very elect! That is, if it were not for the True Holly Spirit within them, keeping them safe.
And, as you say, the devil cannot live holy. So, perhaps I am not far off when I say we must examine the fruit of those who make a habit of being "slain". Are they living Godly lives?
Unfortunately, the answer is all too often a resounding "NO!". I live in one of those small towns where everyone knows who is cheating who, and whose truck is parked next door....do you understand me? We have far to many Sunday Saints who turn out to be Saturday Sinners. Now, no one is perfect...God knows I've slipped a few times myself, and I have no stones to throw at anyone else...
Still, if one is going about bragging about how spiritual they are...speaking in tongues, falling under the power of the Spirit, etc....well, you'd expect to find flowers on their vine...not thorns.
I agree wholeheartedly. The manifestations of the Spirit are not bragging rights but are gifts that are given as the Spirit sees fit. What's more important is your lifestyle and heart! It was at time way back in the day the old saints told us that they would not believe a person received the Holy Ghost genuinely even if they spoke in tongues if they didn't "live sanctified and holy" as they called it speaking of the fruit of the Spirit. Speaking in tongues an lying in English; shouting and falling out but gossiping and destroying another person; the Holy Ghost is not schizophrenic or confusing!
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
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70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The Barrd said:
Okay, I'm listening. How did your experience benefit your personal relationship with God? How were you blessed? You say that God is working in those precious moments where you have been "slain"....could you explain that, please? What, exactly, was God doing while you were "wriggling around" on the floor?

And again, where do you see any Biblical authority for this rather recent phenomenon?
I've been asking all through this thread for someone to show me one shred of evidence that this comes from God, and not from Satan. So far, not one jot or tittle has emerged.

What have you got?
Apparently not, given that listening, in this context, would mean understanding and not assigning specific bad situations to ALL Charismatics. We don't all "wiggle around on the floor", and we don't all "fall down". I never have, and probably never will, but I don't refuse to acknowledge it's viability just because I personally have never experienced it. I've SEEN it and witnessed in my spirit it is real and true. I have also seen the false and knew it was. Bottom line? If one has NEVER experienced the infilling and overhwelmikngness of the Holy Spirit, then one cannot deny it IS effective and real.
I have given you example and I just gave you a link to read by a respective Christian apologist, but if you're dead set against it, then there really is no possibility to discuss something you personally will NOT accept or even consider.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
UHCAIan said:
I agree wholeheartedly. The manifestations of the Spirit are not bragging rights but are gifts that are given as the Spirit sees fit. What's more important is your lifestyle and heart! It was at time way back in the day the old saints told us that they would not believe a person received the Holy Ghost genuinely even if they spoke in tongues if they didn't "live sanctified and holy" as they called it speaking of the fruit of the Spirit. Speaking in tongues an lying in English; shouting and falling out but gossiping and destroying another person; the Holy Ghost is not schizophrenic or confusing!
I will say, UHCAlan, that you have impressed me more than any other single person in this thread.
I'm not sure what I think of your experience.
I'm still quite convinced that God is not knocking people unconscious...those prophets you spoke of in the OT were falling down to worship voluntarily. No one laid any hands on them, and they did not lose consciousness.

As far as I know, there is only one incident in the entire Bible where a group of men fall over on their backs...

Joh 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Joh 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

This was definitely not a voluntary act of worship. No one touched them and they evidently did not faint or anything. And, amazingly, they continued with the arrest.
I don't think the Charismatic movement wants to claim this one...but as far as I have been able to find, it is the one and only situation where people are knocked over unto their backs under the power of the Lord.

There is Paul. I haven't forgotten him. And, since you don't seem to be too fussy as to what direction someone falls in, we do need to consider ol' Paul.
As you probably know, Paul was hardly a devout Christian when Jesus knocked him over. He had been present at the stoning of Stephen. You'll recall, I'm sure, that he watched over the people's coats as they did the dirty deed...
And then we find him raising h-ll with the new church....arresting and even murdering new converts.
Here he is, on the road to Damascus, with letters that give him authority to round up as many Christians as he might find, and lead them, bound, back to Jerusalem, where the Sanhedrin will condemn them to death.
Jesus knocked him down and blinded him.
I think we can safely say that he was not a devout Christian at this point.
Again, no one laid hands on him.

These are the only examples I can find of anyone falling over backwards.

Then we have John:


Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

First of all, I'm guessing that any one of us, faced with this sight, might "fall at his feet as dead." I can almost guarantee that I, myself, would pass out cold.
But notice what Jesus does...

And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Did John fall under the power of the Holy Spirit? Well, I could argue the point, but I won't. The fact is that he fell at the Lord's feet as one dead.
Once again, however, let me point out what Jesus does:

And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:


Jesus doesn't go around knocking people over. Since the Holy Spirit is sent to us to remind us of all He taught us, it's pretty safe to say that the Holy Spirit isn't going around knocking people over, either.
What Jesus does do, is lifts people up.
I would expect to find the Holy Spirit doing the very same thing...
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
UHCAIan said:
I agree wholeheartedly. The manifestations of the Spirit are not bragging rights but are gifts that are given as the Spirit sees fit. What's more important is your lifestyle and heart! It was at time way back in the day the old saints told us that they would not believe a person received the Holy Ghost genuinely even if they spoke in tongues if they didn't "live sanctified and holy" as they called it speaking of the fruit of the Spirit. Speaking in tongues an lying in English; shouting and falling out but gossiping and destroying another person; the Holy Ghost is not schizophrenic or confusing!
I totally agree.

I will say, UHCAlan, that you have impressed me more than any other single person in this thread.
I'm not sure what I think of your experience.
I'm still quite convinced that God is not knocking people unconscious...those prophets you spoke of in the OT were falling down to worship voluntarily. No one laid any hands on them, and they did not lose consciousness.

As far as I know, there is only one incident in the entire Bible where a group of men fall over on their backs...

Joh 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Joh 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

This was definitely not a voluntary act of worship. No one touched them and they evidently did not faint or anything. And, amazingly, they continued with the arrest.
I don't think the Charismatic movement wants to claim this one...but as far as I have been able to find, it is the one and only situation where people are knocked over unto their backs under the power of the Lord.

There is Paul. I haven't forgotten him. And, since you don't seem to be too fussy as to what direction someone falls in, we do need to consider ol' Paul.
As you probably know, Paul was hardly a devout Christian when Jesus knocked him over. He had been present at the stoning of Stephen. You'll recall, I'm sure, that he watched over the people's coats as they did the dirty deed...
And then we find him raising h-ll with the new church....arresting and even murdering new converts.
Here he is, on the road to Damascus, with letters that give him authority to round up as many Christians as he might find, and lead them, bound, back to Jerusalem, where the Sanhedrin will condemn them to death.
Jesus knocked him down and blinded him.
I think we can safely say that he was not a devout Christian at this point.
Again, no one laid hands on him.

These are the only examples I can find of anyone falling over backwards.

Then we have John:

Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

First of all, I'm guessing that any one of us, faced with this sight, might "fall at his feet as dead." I can almost guarantee that I, myself, would pass out cold.
But notice what Jesus does...

And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Did John fall under the power of the Holy Spirit? Well, I could argue the point, but I won't. The fact is that he fell at the Lord's feet as one dead.
Once again, however, let me point out what Jesus does:

And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:


Jesus doesn't go around knocking people over. Since the Holy Spirit is sent to us to remind us of all He taught us, it's pretty safe to say that the Holy Spirit isn't going around knocking people over, either.
What Jesus does do, is lifts people up.
I would expect to find the Holy Spirit doing the very same thing...
 

IanLC

Active Member
Encounter Team
Mar 22, 2011
862
80
28
North Carolina
The Barrd said:
Sorry....I seem to be repeating myself, here.
I blame the grandkids...I'm babysitting tonight while two sets of parents are doing some last minute Christmas shopping.
That is totally fine! I understand about the last minute Christmas shopping. You've given me something to think and pray on. I have had my experiences and you I'm sure have had yours but to see that we can engage in dialogue and see each others points of view and understand them is wonderful! We may nto agree on everything but at least we can say that we hold to the Word and lift up Jesus! Enjoy your Holidays and those grands! Merry Christmas!!
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
2,992
54
0
73
...following a Jewish carpenter...
StanJ said:
Apparently not, given that listening, in this context, would mean understanding and not assigning specific bad situations to ALL Charismatics. We don't all "wiggle around on the floor", and we don't all "fall down". I never have, and probably never will, but I don't refuse to acknowledge it's viability just because I personally have never experienced it. I've SEEN it and witnessed in my spirit it is real and true. I have also seen the false and knew it was. Bottom line? If one has NEVER experienced the infilling and overhwelmikngness of the Holy Spirit, then one cannot deny it IS effective and real.
I have given you example and I just gave you a link to read by a respective Christian apologist, but if you're dead set against it, then there really is no possibility to discuss something you personally will NOT accept or even consider.
I just can't make up my mind about you, Stan.
Perhaps you really do enjoy "stirring the pot"....
 

marksman

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StanJ said:
Not the issue Barrd, and in fact, this POV may be what prevents you from seeing what CAN happen by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There are many examples of God's spirit killing people in the OT when they got to close, but under the NC, the Holy Spirit was meant to be our POWER. Sometimes that power can effect the physical in an overwhelming way.
I found the following article by Matt Slick to be a very level understand of the issue.

https://carm.org/questions/about-church/what-does-it-mean-be-slain-spirit
Yes except that this quote puts it into question....But, given the sensationalism in the TV church, the numerous unbiblical practices and teachings that occur there, and the over-eagerness of people to be slain in the Spirit, I would conclude that this phenomena is to be frowned upon.

[SIZE=17.5px]Whether he intended it or not, he is implying that his assessment of it is based on what goes wrong, not what goes right so that make his assessment to be "frowned upon."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.5px]Now I will tell you a true story. At our first National Conference, I was assigned to partner one of the senior ministers in our fellowship to assist wherever he needed me. He was billed to be speaking at a morning session about "Rejection." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.5px]When he had finished speaking he invited people to come forward for prayer in they felt this was a problem for them. I joined him at the front to do some of the praying. He started at one end of the line and I started at the other end. When I stood in front of the first person I was to pray for I realised I had no idea what to do or say (which meant there was no fake pushing or shoving). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.5px]I stood there for a moment to get some leading from the Lord and the words, "he breaks the power of cancelled sin and sets the prisoner free" came into my mind. I gently put my hand on the head of the person and said those words. To my surprise they fell to the ground. (No pushing or shoving).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.5px]I did the same for the second person wiht the same result. The third person, I just said the words and managed to touch them, just. Same for the next person except that this time I never even touched them. They went down before I got to that. As for the rest words were sufficient. No touch needed. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.5px]It was evident that the power of God was present and that no one orchestrated anything. It was pure Spirit. I can't tell you what joy those that went down had, when they got up. At last they were free from rejection and it was entirely the work of the Spirit. No man was involved in what happened other than to be channel for the spirit to move in mighty power. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.5px]There was no sensationalism; no pushing or shoving; no shouting or shaking. Just a peaceful coming of the Spirit on each person and little ole me the vehicle through which it happened. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.5px]I am so pleased to say that I did not assess this on the basis of what goes wrong, but on the basis of what goes right and that day it went perfectly by the grace of God. [/SIZE]
 

marksman

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UHCAIan said:
I was taught growing up that the devil can shout, jump, speak in tongues, preach, love and holler but he cant live holy! You can manifest the gifts and still not be in right relationship with the Gift Giver!
And I am so pleased that I was taught that you can manifest the gifts of the Spirit and be in a right relationship with the giver. As a result, I was able to grow in my faith and not be in bondage to fear when the gifts were going around and the Spirit gave utterance.

I cannot remember how many times I was in a meeting and the Spirit of God descended on me and told me to prophesy or minister a gift of some kind and when I responded, the recipient witnessed to the truth of what I had said.

Only recently, we were told about a young man who was brain damaged in a fight and the doctors diagnosed that he would be a vegetable for the rest of his life. Enter yours truly with a word of knowledge. I said that God had told me we were to go to the hospital and pray for him and put a prayer cloth under his pillow. Two others came with me and the three of us laid hands on him and prayed for him and prayed over a cloth and put it under his pillow.

​Within a short space of time he regained the use of his faculties and is now recovering at home.

If you want to deny the work of the Spirit through the gifts go right ahead, but I will not refuse the leading of the Spirit whilst there are people who need to be healed and delivered. The way that happens is up to him, not me so I will just do as I am told and leave the outcomes to the Lord, not analyse every jot and title so that I have got it all organised in my mind but I am no use to the Lord in the realm of the Spirit.

Satan laughs at christians who are too afraid to be part of the supernatural kingdom of God so they have to explain it away with all sorts of theories and rationalisations.
 
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IanLC

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marksman said:
And I am so pleased that I was taught that you can manifest the gifts of the Spirit and be in a right relationship with the giver. As a result, I was able to grow in my faith and not be in bondage to fear when the gifts were going around and the Spirit gave utterance.

I cannot remember how many times I was in a meeting and the Spirit of God descended on me and told me to prophesy or minister a gift of some kind and when I responded, the recipient witnessed to the truth of what I had said.

Only recently, we were told about a young man who was brain damaged in a fight and the doctors diagnosed that he would be a vegetable for the rest of his life. Enter yours truly with a word of knowledge. I said that God had told me we were to go to the hospital and pray for him and put a prayer cloth under his pillow. Two others came with me and the three of us laid hands on him and prayed for him and prayed over a cloth and put it under his pillow.

​Within a short space of time he regained the use of his faculties and is now recovering at home.

If you want to deny the work of the Spirit through the gifts go right ahead, but I will not refuse the leading of the Spirit whilst there are people who need to be healed and delivered. The way that happens is up to him, not me so I will just do as I am told and leave the outcomes to the Lord, not analyse every jot and title so that I have got it all organised in my mind but I am no use to the Lord in the realm of the Spirit.

Satan laughs at christians who are too afraid to be part of the supernatural kingdom of God so they have to explain it away with all sorts of theories and rationalisations.
That was a portion of the conversation I was having on the topic. No where did I say that I doubted the workings and manifestation of the Holy Ghost. If you would've continued to read you would've seen that I to have been slain in the Spirit in a very similar way that you have with no one touching me but the hand of God. I was also taught though growing up in a Pentecostal Holiness Church that one can still operate in the gifts yet not be in right relationship with God and the main thing was the fruit of one's life. The gifts will one day cease but the fruit of the Spirit is lasting. I rejoice in the gifts but more so in the Gift Giver because He is the one to be glorified! Not the gift or the gifted but the Gift Giver who is Jesus Christ!
 

Barrd

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marksman said:
Satan laughs at christians who are too afraid to be part of the supernatural kingdom of God so they have to explain it away with all sorts of theories and rationalisations.
First of all, every single person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior is a part of the Kingdom of God. Every single Christian receives the Holy Spirit at their baptism. No exceptions. None.
I have God's Word on that.

On the other hand, what do you think really makes Satan laugh with glee?

Now, I don't know, but it seems to me that the sight of a bunch of hairless apes lining up at an altar, eager to be "slain" would evoke gales of demonic merriment.
I mean, have you ever thought what being "slain in the spirit" might really mean?

Remember, there is absolutely no Biblical support for such a notion. None. Nada. Zilch. Not even a tiny suggestion.
Neither Jesus nor His Apostles ever touched anyone on the forehead and they fell over. Not ever. Not even Paul. None of them.
There are absolutely no cases in the Bible of anything even remotely approaching the practice of being "slain in the spirit".

And there would be, if it were something that God had ordained. Jesus was very careful to teach His Apostles, so that they would be able to carry His message forward to the world.
And when He left, He instructed them to carry His teaching to all the nations of the world:

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Don't get me wrong. I am not, by any means, a cessationist. I know that the Holy Spirit is still alive and well, and dwellig in every single Christian. I know that He can an does still perform amazing miracles, sometimes through prayer and fasting, sometimes all on His Own.

Just for fun, let's take a look at the gifts of the spirit:

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Now, we could discuss each and every one of these gifts. I'm fairly sure you and I have a different opinion on each one of them.

But....where is "slain in the spirit"? I've heard a couple of folks talk about what a blessing it is to be knocked out by the power of God...you'd think that a gift that brings a person peace in his spirit would at least get a mention...
 

StanJ

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The Barrd said:
Every single Christian receives the Holy Spirit at their baptism. No exceptions. None.
I have God's Word on that.
That is NOT factual Barrd and I have addressed this with you in the past. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate from Salvation and is clearly depicted in a few places in Acts. One clear example is Acts 19:1-7. If you continue to make these kind of assertions when you have been given the facts, it shows you are simply bound by your denominational dogma and NOT by the Word of God.
 
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