StanJ said:
Basically by your comments, but let's not beat around the bush....HAVE YOU received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues?
How do you know they were real languages if you didn't know the languages? you seem well prepared to accept second hand accounts as factual but not first hand accounts, nor what the scriptures say? How convenient is that?
We're not discussing miracles Barrd. The devil may APPEAR as an angel of light, but he can NOT duplicate real miracles or gifts of the Holy Spirit. John is talking about the spirit of false teaching, NOT works of the Holy Spirit. Sad you don't see the difference.
Careful Barrd....he may just knock you over one day for doubting what He can do.
Acts 9:4 - And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Revelation 1:17 - And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Ezekiel 1:28 - As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so [was] the appearance of the brightness round about. This [was] the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw [it], I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
John 18:6 - As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground.
2 Chronicles 5:14 - So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
I even gave them to you here in the KJV.
Whoa, what? So, you think that every one who receives the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues?
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing?
do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Evidently, Paul did not think so. Stan, desire the more excellent way.
What is the first hand account?
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
I'd be interested in hearing how you would answer those men and women.
Careful...there were people from all over the known world there.
Act 2:9
Parthians, and
Medes, and
Elamites, and the
dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in
Judaea, and
Cappadocia, in
Pontus, and
Asia,
Act 2:10
Phrygia, and
Pamphylia, in
Egypt, and in the
parts of Libya about Cyrene, and
strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11
Cretes and
Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
That last bit is very important:
we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
The men and women gathered that day did not hear those disciples speaking some weird gibberish, and they didn't need someone to interpret for them what was being said. They heard them speaking in their own languages, and they understood every word.
It couldn't be more obvious that they were speaking in human languages, even if we could somehow travel back in time and hear them speaking in English.
And before you get all crazy, I am not saying that anyone was speaking in English. I just want to make that very clear.
Like every other Christian, I have been baptized into Jesus Christ, and, yes, Stan, I have received the Holy Spirit. I thought I had told you that.
Stan, can Satan bring back a woman who had been mauled by a vicious dog that was attacking her children, and bled to death? Can he give that woman back to her family, healthy and whole, without even so much as a scar to show for her ordeal?
I would like to hear your answer, Stan.
Didn't we already cover these verses? Ahh, well...I don't mind doing it again.
Acts 9:4 - And
he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Saul's famous conversion experience. He was on his way to Damascus with letters giving him authority to arrest any Christians he might find.
And Jesus knocked him off his high horse...and blinded him.
The first thing to get clear here, is that Saul was, at this time, definitely NOT a devout Christian. He definitely had not come to the Lord, seeking some blessing. What he is doing is going to seek out and destroy as many of Christ's followers as possible.
And then, he was blinded. I'm going to go way out on a limb, here, and say that those people who go to the altar and fall over into the waiting arms of "catchers" are not blinded. I'd bet that, if they were, they wouldn't keep coming back for another hit...
Revelation 1:17 - And when I saw him,
I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Let's back up a just a bit:
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Now, I don't know about you, but if I had just seen this, I'd probably fall down, too.
But look again at the verse you quoted:
Revelation 1:17 - And when I saw him,
I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me,
Fear not; I am the first and the last:
And from there, John records the messages to the various churches. I'm going to say that he wasn't doing this from a prone position on the ground...
What had happened was that Jesus laid His right hand upon him, and lifted him up.
Ezekiel 1:28 - As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so [was] the appearance of the brightness round about. This [was] the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw [it],
I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
Again, if I had just seen what Ezekiel had seen, I can pretty much guarantee that I'd fall over, too. But what does God say to him?
Eze 2:1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.
Eze 2:2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.
Do keep up, Stan. As you can very plainly see, God lifted Ezekiel to his feet.
God doesn't knock people down. He lifts them up.
John 18:6 - As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he],
they went backward, and fell to the ground.
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you would use this incident.
These men were not coming to Gethsemane to worship Jesus. They were not there to praise Him.
They had come with swords and staves to arrest Jesus.
Judas, who betrayed Jesus, was among them.
Do you understand, then, that them falling backward was not some kind of blessing? They were not "resting in the Lord", or any such nonsense.
And they continued with the arrest.
That is significant, Stan. They continued with the arrest, even after Jesus had spoken, and they had fallen over.
Even after Peter drew his sword and clipped off the leader's ear, and Jesus healed it, they still continued with the arrest.
One could make the argument that these men, including Judas, were spiritually dead...
By the way, you do know that, when something is slain, it is dead, right?
2 Chronicles 5:14 - So that
the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
This does not say that God knocked anyone off their feet. What is happening here is that they have finished building the Temple, and God was moving into it. The Temple was filled with the pillar of cloud that had led them in their wilderness wanderings.
Just as well that God didn't decide to manifest as the pillar of fire that went before them at night...