Don’t ignore Jesus’ warnings at the end of The Book!

I like this post by you...yet let's not leave them in the dark about God's commandments.

1 John 3:23-24

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Revelation 22 Jesus said "behold I come quickly and my reward is with me for every man according to his WORKS"

heretoeternity said:

Revelation 22 Jesus said "behold I come quickly and my reward is with me for every man according to his WORKS"

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We know as Christians works can not get us into heaven. The judgment and rewards was to the Jews that lived under the law.

Also Revelation says,

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
This probably pertains to Christians.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Who do we know that changes the meaning of "Surely I come quickly" to "Surely I will not come quickly". It is those false prophecy teachers.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

James 2 "Faith without works is dead"
1st John 3 "sin is transression of the law"
Romans 3 "do we make void the law through faith"..No we establish the law"
Romans 6 "do we sin more so grace abounds, God forbid"

Um...ok, I will try not to add to the book of Revelation.....

aspen said:

Um...ok, I will try not to add to the book of Revelation.....

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Aspen,

I am very glad that you understand that interpretation of the bible is serious business. Many prophecy teachers do not believe that Jesus was speaking to John and the seven churches of Asia when he said "I come quickly". Those same prophecy teachers add or change much of what Jesus said even in the 4 gospels. Why does God feel we should not add or take away from scripture? Because that was what caused his chosen people to reject him.

Let us read the word of God the way it is written, and listen to what the Apostles are saying.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

In Christian love, be blessed!

Chapter 17 and 18 of Revelation should not be overlooked as well...the white horse false religion...God says come out of her my people. That would include the"harlot" and her daughters!

heretoeternity said:

Chapter 17 and 18 of Revelation should not be overlooked as well...the white horse false religion...God says come out of her my people. That would include the"harlot" and her daughters!

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In these scriptures, God is speaking to Israel.

Hos 4:15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.

Eze 16:22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.

Eze 16:26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.

Eze 16:28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.


The entire bible is about God’s covenant with Israel. The only harlot that concerned God, was his wife, Israel.

The book of Revelation continues to be about Israel and not some future false religion.

heretoeternity said:

Chapter 17 and 18 of Revelation should not be overlooked as well...the white horse false religion...God says come out of her my people. That would include the"harlot" and her daughters!

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This is just one interpretation of what that passage means. An interpretation in which the meaning is assumed. Here is another: In rev. we find that just before God's wrath, there is a harvest of His church. This may be called the rapture, but I believe it to actually be the resurrection. We are told that when Jesus comes for His church there will be a last trumpet and a shout. Has it occured to anyone else here that the shout might well be " come out of her My people"? Why look at this with such a negative slant that renders it a warning or command? After all, He doesn't say "get" out of her, He says "come" out of her. In fact the word "come" is used more times in Rev. Is this a command or the final call home to get off the planet just prior to His wrath hitting it?

I for one have an optimistic viewpoint toward what Jesus accomplished for us on our behalf, and not the negative one that surfaces from time to time that it is all up to the individual to justify himslef before God.

Warnings? Not this again. We warn our own children to behave themselves don't we? Yes we do. But when they disobey do we rear our ugly head in wrath and anger and disown them? How does this fit with the story of the prodigal son? Weren't we saved from that kind of judgment when we were made righteous by faith through the righteousness of ONE man and the obedience of ONE man? Yes we were. (Rom.5)

Does this give us a license to sin? How can this be? A license in so many words amounts to permission. That is what a license is for. It is a legal permit. Do we have or ever had permission from God to sin? No. But what He has done is change the consequences of sin for the believer. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is everlasting life. To whom it concerns...what part of "free gift" is hard to understand? So what are the current consequences of sin for the believer? It is called "chastening". This is the same consequence we administer to our own children. Jesus said " all whom I love, I rebuke and chasten" I think we should render the so called warnings of Jesus to their proper place. They are not requirements for everlasting life. If they were then grace is no longer the governing factor of this new covenant, but back to law. Good luck with that E.7!! To everyone else, try doing the right things for the right reasons. They are in response to what He has given us, and not the ticket to get these same things.

Faith without works is dead. Yes I saw that quote on this thread. However, a look through the letter from James will reveal that he was responding to his observation of the poor showing of love from his fellow converted countrymen. The works in that verse are works of love, not works of law. In fact, read the context and you will see the examples James used. The first was that of Abraham being told to kill his son on the alter, the second was that of a harlot who helped God's messengers. These actions proved that they believed the promise given to them by God.

On the other hand, those who are working for their eternal life are showing by their works that they do not believe that life is a free gift. People working to get the promise have works without faith. Don't be tripped up by an out of context quote.


My above comments are a result of a long road of learning to both intepret the bible and understand the truth. I have observed that there are many passages in scripture that can be interpreted more than one way, and the conclusions drawn from them by some people can differ from conclusions by another. The remedy I have used for this is to come to conclusions and interpretations that are compatible with what the bible says elsewhere.
To that end I have settled that the promises of God are indeed yes and amen and that they are given without contradiction. In terms of warnings that are connected to receiving something from God, the one that comes to mind is found in Luke 18:10-14. Jesus shows there that justificaion comes to those who humble themselves and it is removed from they who take the credit for their (perceived) righteous behavior. While we are on the subject of warnings from Jesus, I suggest we take a serious look at this one. It seems that among other things, self exaltation will not be acknowledged or tolerated.

Does anyone think their personal obedience and behavior is getting them or keeping them justified? Read this passage and while you are at it, read the fifth chapter of Romans and tell me how many men obey God in order for Him to grant life? Jesus alone, or you and Jesus? It says One Man. And further, notice the word "free" in that chapter, concerning the gift of life and righteousness. It appears a few times. I think Paul wanted to make a point in his repetition.

evangelist-7 said:

Yes, he did indeed ... 3 times in 8 verses is a bit much ...
Romans 6:
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves
whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin,
yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented
your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness,
so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed?
For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God,
you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And he threw in a few jokes (in blue), IMO ... re: some of the Roman Christians.

Note: For one to be living righteously, he/she must have no habitual sin going on.
These must be overcome for any chance at heaven!

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Thank you for your reply and the quote from Romans. At first glance I can see how one can come to the conclusion that you presented in your note at the bottom: (re: these must be overcome for any chance at heaven). So I guess from that conclusion, we can surmise that Jesus died for all sin with the exception of habitual sin. And when we were fogiven, born again, and given everlasting life, and promised we would no longer come under judgment (John 5:24), this applies to all sin exept 'habitual' sin. And Jesus in His commentary in Luke 18:10-14 telling of the man who went away justified who confessed his sin and asked for mercy, was describing a temporary situation that no longer applies to the believer. Maybe Jesus changed His mind or something.

Or....maybe Paul was describing a mindset that he wanted the Romans to have in order to not take advantage of grace (shall we sin that grace may abound?). If you care to fast forward to Rom.7, you can see another mindset that Paul described. In this mindset, he showed that although he agreed with the law and hated his sin, he did not have the ability to overcome all sin. But because of this mindset, the conclusion is...

Rom.6:15..." For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, I do."
vs.16..."If then I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good"...17..." But now, it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me"
Shall I go on?
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Therefore, as Paul states, there is now no condemnation. Why? because of this mindset, and not necessarily because he has successfully overcome all sin in his life. ...."for those who live according to the spirit have thier minds set on the things of the spirit" (Rom.8:5). What mindset? That which he described in Rom. 7 and also in Rom.6. These are the places where he talks of a mindset. And the big clue is the word "therefore" in Rom.8:1. It indicates a conclusion from previous things and not from future things said.

The conclusion you have come to is not about a mindset but rather about work. Works of law no less. Sin is transgression of law. In your version, one must successfully keep all the law perfectly for any chance at heaven. (overcome all transgression).

My version is about attitude. It mixes humility with an agreement with God about sin and the law. One cannot even humbly confess his sin and come to God for mercy and forgiveness in the first place unless he has already recognized the folly of sin.

Your version removes humility. It places the burden of receiving or keeping salvation directly on the efforts of the believer rather than on the sacrifice at Calvary. After all, one does not need humility if he is doing everything perfectly. For that matter, he no longer requires a savior, a high priest, or an advocate with the Father, but can stand before God as the Pharisee did in Luke 18:10-14, and present all his success to God.
As well, your version annulls Rom.10:9,10.
All I can surmise is that you are blind to this error. Blessings in Christ

evangelist-7 said:

Willie, 'twill be explained in my next thread, which is a monumental stand-alone topic on its' own.

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Fair enough. And BTW, I already know from past conversations with you that you acknowledge we are not yet perfected and that there is indeed sin in the believer. But from your replies and your reference to Heb.10:26 (an out of context reference on your part), you insist that the only sin we are now forgiven from is that which we are not responsible for. (sins committed in ignorance) In a way, I actually agree with that. The reference from Hebrews 10 concludes that " we are not of those who draw back to perdition but of those who believe to the saving of the soul" (vs.29). The willful sin according to the author is that which is committed by the unbeliever. Those Jews who do not accept the sacrifice of Jesus, and thus have no more sacrifice (the old ones having been removed) will be held responsible and accountable for thier sin. But for we who accept His sacrifice for sin, the old man is held responsible and is considered dead, crucufied with Christ. Thus we believe to the saving of the soul.The new man is created according to God in true righteousness and holiness (Eph.4:24), and has no sin. Paul simply said.." put on the new man". My question to you is...can this be sucessfully done 24/7, 365? No. Therefore we still need an advocate with the Father until we shed this body of sin. So go ahead with this new thread and show us how we are now back to working for our "gift" of everlasting life.

evangelist-7 said:

You are going to have to get the revelation that Paul wrote with a lot of exhortation, etc.
... and he mixed in his warnings within this framework of exhortation, etc.

Witness the above blue joke and the priorily-posted Romans 6.
I classify tongue-in-cheek as a type of joke.
P.S. Any BAC who draws back into unrepented-of habitual sin has done so to perdition.

If anyone would like to get real here ... let us use Romans 6 as an example of realness.

Was not Paul writing to ALL future believers and churches, when he penned ...
18 you became slaves of righteousness
22 having become slaves of God

Yes, he was joking when he classified ALL BACs in ALL churches as being the above!

Now, you can be confused further because now he encourages ...
19 present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness

Explanation ...
BACs have the ABILITY now to be slaves of God and slaves of righteousness.
Butski, the trick is to actually be those things!
Those who reject their God-given-through-grace potential will not make heaven.
All sin must be overcome!
If you don't, you have broken your part of the new covenant.

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No covenant mentioned in Rom.6. No salvation mentioned there either. Paul tells the exact same readers how salvation is attained later on in his letter. It is found in ch.10:9,10. No mention in that passage about behaving or else. The only mention of the covenant in his letter to the Romans is in ch.11:27, where God's part in it is to take away their sins. He said "I" will do it. I say, let Him. He said He would. He didn't say He needed any help.

There can be no disputing that Paul in his letters instructed his readers as to how to conduct themselves. But we cannot find him motivating them with threats of loss of salvation. He rather motivated them with assurances and information as to their new identity and nature. You are the one who is promoting negative motivation by threats of loss of everlasting life.
I have had all these conversations with you previously and I am not interested in getting deja vu where you start accusing me of promoting sin or wanting to sin. We don't have permission to sin. But we are treated as children, who can and will be disciplined by the master. This is how he deals with misbehavior, not by killing his loved ones, as you suggest.

He has offered life to the world as a free gift (Romans chapter 5) . Those who accept his offer will be changed through the new birth and then the final resurrection. In the meantime we are not under a test to see if we can measure up to His demands or else be destroyed. A free gift is a free gift. The only stipulation is that a person actually takes it as such and does not try to earn or deserve it. Because as Paul said, to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace, but as debt (Rom.4:4). Do you honestly think that after having told them that, he ends up putting them under a works/salvation covenant in chapter 6? Do you think God wants to owe us eternal life as a debt for our obedience...after it was by One Man's obedience that He made life available in the first place? Your going to have to deal with all the contradiction in your position if you want to convince me that God's grace coming to us by way of the obedience of His Son, and the sacrifice of His Son, was a down payment only, the rest of the payments subsequently made by us.

Sin is transgression of God's law according to Apostle John in 1st John...and he goes on to say "those who say they know Him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"..so it is wise to bear these in mind when referring to "sin" and what is is.