Escape the Great Tribulation

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guysmith

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Escape the Great TribulationGod has desinated Mount Zion in Jerusalem as a sanctuary where a pocket of Christians will be protected from the persecution of the Anti-Christ during the Great Tribulation. Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
 

Pariah

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I thought it was Petra. I actually forgot the name. Thought it started with a J. But I found it on the internet search engine.http://www.ldolphin.org/kingdom/ch11.htmlAnyway, just a reminder that I do not know all that is printed there at that site. Just referencing it about Petra as a possible place for safety provided by the Lord as well.
 
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Matthew 24 tells the Disciples and the reader to flee to the mountains when The Man of Satan comes into power. I believer it is Petra, but Zion also has to be looked at as a Spiritual Fortress too. Many will flee and survive and many will also die. The Most Gruesome Inquisition.
 

guysmith

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UnorthodoxChristian,You stated: Matthew 24 tells the Disciples and the reader to flee to the mountains when The Man of Satan comes into power.My response: The OT states in numerous places that Mt Zion will be protected by God. Matt 24 seems to contradict this.... Matt 24: 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.....but it really doesn't. Many take this to say to flee Jerusalem but it doesn't say Jerusalem at all. It does however say Judea which is the countryside which surrounds Jerusalem. And if you know the geography of that area you would know that Jerusalem is the highest point in Judea and that Jerusalem is built on three mountains one of which is Mount Zion. So, this command to flee is not away from Jerusalem but rather towards the safety of the mountains of Jerusalem which has been designated a sanctuary.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
 
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So, this command to flee is not away from Jerusalem but rather towards the safety of the mountains of Jerusalem which has been designated a sanctuary.
I didn't say that it would be away from Jerusalem brother. Toward the Safety of Her Mountains.
 

whirlwind

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Escape the Great TribulationGod has desinated Mount Zion in Jerusalem as a sanctuary where a pocket of Christians will be protected from the persecution of the Anti-Christ during the Great Tribulation. Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
Could the Joel 2:32 scripture mean that the deliverance in Jerusalem and Mt. Zion is Christ....He is our deliverance? If we call on His name we are delivered. So...instead of being protected in a sanctuary, our santuary is belief in Him.Something to consider.
smile.gif
........Whirlwind
 
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I'm sorry if I'm not precise on the exact scripture. But I do remember scripture. It's like when God said He would not allow Satan to overcome us. The carnal understanding would be that our bodies would not be harmed by Satan, when he meant overcome he meant in Spirit. Mt. Zion is Jesus Christ, Just like the the Rock and the Stone that the builders rejected."Who am I gonna lean on? Where do I go? I go to the Rock of my Salvation, I go to the Stone that the builders rejected. I go to the Mountain, cause the Mountain stands by me!"-The Rock of My Salvation
 

kkboldt

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Escape the Great TribulationGod has desinated Mount Zion in Jerusalem as a sanctuary where a pocket of Christians will be protected from the persecution of the Anti-Christ during the Great Tribulation. Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.In Yehoshua,Guy Smith
Hi Guy,Well, I thought this once, too. HOWEVER, the Prophet Joel was fulfilled according to the book of Acts.Acts 2:15-21 "For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."So, it ALREADY happened. We were ALL saved by the blood of Jesus Christ in that day in which he died when there was a lunar eclipse in the weeks before, then a solar eclipse and a great earthquake at Christ's death on the cross.We have been in the "Tribulation" for the last 2000 years. What happened after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70AD?The Christians were persecuted and murdered by the hundreds of thousands. Then followed the burning of Rome, a great plaque in which 300,000 people died. Then followed wars, and the Crusades, and more earthquakes, and more plagues, and more wars, all the way to this century with it's two Great Wars, World Wars I and II and the exploding of the atomic bomb.We are now living in the times of great darkness, where the figurative "sun, moon, and stars", no longer shed their light. The Great Apostacy as prophesied.It is always "darkest before the dawn".2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,"We are ALL going to go THROUGH tribulation. Because that's how we are to be molded into the likeness of Christ. It is a test of our faith that we hold steadfast until the end.Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"The Great Tribulation began 2000 years ago with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.Yes, we will be spared in the end, however that doesn't mean our lives will be easy or we won't face persecution.John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."And then the Apostle John spoke of the last days.1John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."The Apostles knew they were living in the "last time".Next clue:The 70x7 forgiveness of Jesus.Matthew 18:21-22 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.70x7=490 The number of years from the time of Daniel's Prophecy to the first time of Christ. The "times of forgiveness of sins."Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.This has all happened already. We are now living in the days AFTER the Great Tribulation.....a time of great darkness and apostacy among God's people.Kim
 
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WOW great post KKboldt, I was thinking the same thing the other day. That most of what happened concerning the last days, came to past then and we are in tribulation. I don't mean to sound like a preterist(those who believe all of the prophecy has been fulfilled), but I do believe some of those were accomplished. Like Matthew, when he said take no thought of what you should say cause the holy Spirit of God will speak through you. Surely that happened to Paul, Peter, who were delivered unto the councils and were beheaded. Just as john the Baptist was, Stephen etc. The Abomination of Desolation has already happen, the dome of Rock by the Muslims etc. The AntiChrist is already here in the form of anti-Christian Religions and extreme secularization. The time is now to choose between the mark of the beast, or God's Elect title.
 

kkboldt

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Thanks! Unorthodox Christian! Very kind of you!Yes, I understand what you mean about Preterism. But no, I am not a preterist either. I am what some would call a "Reformed Historicist". This is the theology of the Protestant Reformation fathers such as Luther, Calvin, John Wesley, Heinrich Bullinger, Matthew Henry, even Sir Isaac Newton.I believe that MOST, NOT all of prophecy has been fulfilled. The only things left are the "fall of Mystery Babylon" which enslaves our world right now through it's religious, enonomical and political power, and the Second Coming of Christ.I fully agree about the "Abomination of Desolation" as the Dome of the Rock, and the "pouring out of the spirit" on the Apostles. It happened already. "Antichrists" are already here.It took a few years for me to get here, though. Many years of bible study and meditation. I'm still learning more, though.God Bless you!Kim
 
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I tend not to lean to much on calling it protestant, because I just believe we are the body of Christ. With that said, I believe that not only was the pouring of his Spirit Fulfilled, the prophecy in Joel and Isaiah 44:3 in the time of Pentecost, but it was also an outpouring upon us as well. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in a physical building, but when a congregation of the called out(church) is together the Spirit of God is amazing. Jesus Christ was given the Holy Ghost without measure, we are given the Ghost with Measure.
 

Christina

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Hi Guy,Well, I thought this once, too. HOWEVER, the Prophet Joel was fulfilled according to the book of Acts.Acts 2:15-21 "For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."So, it ALREADY happened. We were ALL saved by the blood of Jesus Christ in that day in which he died when there was a lunar eclipse in the weeks before, then a solar eclipse and a great earthquake at Christ's death on the cross.We have been in the "Tribulation" for the last 2000 years. What happened after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70AD?The Christians were persecuted and murdered by the hundreds of thousands. Then followed the burning of Rome, a great plaque in which 300,000 people died. Then followed wars, and the Crusades, and more earthquakes, and more plagues, and more wars, all the way to this century with it's two Great Wars, World Wars I and II and the exploding of the atomic bomb.We are now living in the times of great darkness, where the figurative "sun, moon, and stars", no longer shed their light. The Great Apostacy as prophesied.It is always "darkest before the dawn".2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,"We are ALL going to go THROUGH tribulation. Because that's how we are to be molded into the likeness of Christ. It is a test of our faith that we hold steadfast until the end.Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"The Great Tribulation began 2000 years ago with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.Yes, we will be spared in the end, however that doesn't mean our lives will be easy or we won't face persecution.John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."And then the Apostle John spoke of the last days.1John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."The Apostles knew they were living in the "last time".Next clue:The 70x7 forgiveness of Jesus.Matthew 18:21-22 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.70x7=490 The number of years from the time of Daniel's Prophecy to the first time of Christ. The "times of forgiveness of sins."Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.This has all happened already. We are now living in the days AFTER the Great Tribulation.....a time of great darkness and apostacy among God's people.Kim
I agree with some parts of your post but not when the tribulation began there are two tribulations one is Satans one is Gods (wrath)Satan's is first and starts when he gets kicked out of heaven at 5th/6th trump Gods tribulation is the 7th trump You mistaking the time of the gentiles for a tribulation The first part of scripture (old testament was about the hebrews(jews)the second part was about Salvation being open to the Gentiles(all)the end times pulls both together If you stop and give it some thought why is this time where the Good news is we are saved by Grace any worse than the time before to be called the tribulation????? Makes no sense and theres no scriptures that say this I can remember.Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions: Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
 

guysmith

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kkboldt, unorthodoxchristian and kriss,If you believe that the 70th week was fulfilled in the past, then how do you explain that we still have sin? Daniel states that with the completion of the 70 weeks there will be an end to sin.Dan 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Here is another concern. If what you say is true, then how do you explain the Anti-Christ and his mark? My point is that if the 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled in the past, then the Anti-Christ and the mark have already happened. And if you believe this and it turns out that the 70th week is in in the future, you won't recognize the Anti-Christ and his mark because you believe that it happened in the past.In Yehoshua,Guy Smithhttp://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000.html
 
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I don't believe the 70th week has been fulfilled yet, obviously to what you've pointed out. The Mark of the Beast is already here, and so is the Spirit of AntiChrist. That's why the choice is now! The chose God or the Man's NUMBER 666. The AntiChrist's Spirit is the World's Spirit, but it will be fully flesh soon, Just as God was fully Flesh. The Mark of the Beast is man's way, Denominations, Religions against Chrisitianity or Messianity(Messianism) atheism, all that is of the world. 70th Week has not yet come, we have not anointed our King HaMashiach(Christ) yet.
 

Christina

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kkboldt, unorthodoxchristian and kriss,If you believe that the 70th week was fulfilled in the past, then how do you explain that we still have sin? Daniel states that with the completion of the 70 weeks there will be an end to sin.Dan 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Here is another concern. If what you say is true, then how do you explain the Anti-Christ and his mark? My point is that if the 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled in the past, then the Anti-Christ and the mark have already happened. And if you believe this and it turns out that the 70th week is in in the future, you won't recognize the Anti-Christ and his mark because you believe that it happened in the past.In Yehoshua,Guy Smithhttp://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000.html
Guy Im with you and unorthodox I do not believe the tribulation has happened yet and it will not start until the 5th/6th trump when Antichrist (Satan) is kicked unto earth.This is the time of the gentiles(church) not the time of tribulation However I think there is some confusion about 70th week (7 years)
 

kkboldt

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I agree with some parts of your post but not when the tribulation began there are two tribulations one is Satans one is Gods (wrath)Satan's is first and starts when he gets kicked out of heaven at 5th/6th trump Gods tribulation is the 7th trump You mistaking the time of the gentiles for a tribulation The first part of scripture (old testament was about the hebrews(jews)the second part was about Salvation being open to the Gentiles(all)the end times pulls both together If you stop and give it some thought why is this time where the Good news is we are saved by Grace any worse than the time before to be called the tribulation????? Makes no sense and theres no scriptures that say this I can remember.Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions: Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Hi Kriss,You wrote:"If you stop and give it some thought why is this time where the Good news is we are saved by Grace any worse than the time before to be called the tribulation????? Makes no sense and theres no scriptures that say this I can remember."Me: Yes, I understand what you mean. I have meditated on this for years! Then I realized, we must understand the "times" we are living in. For that matter, why did so many Christians die or were persecuted by the Jews and the Romans when Christ promised them they were "saved by Grace"? Why didn't God spare them then? Why did they all have to die?How about that question?The answer. We are to be faithful to the end no matter what times we live in and no matter what happens to us.For example, the Seven Churches in the book of Revelation. Are they not actually Seven church periods where the people of God are subject to a different kind of tribulation? Are we not in the 7th Church period now (Laodicea)? The time of the Christian "lukewarmers"? The time when Christians looking at how much they've been blessed, are saying, "I am rich and am in need of nothing", but they don't realize they are "poor, blind, and naked?" Aren't the Christians in our country becoming too soft and tolerant because they've grown accustomed to their material blessings?And Have not the Tribes of Israel been gathered together already in the United States of America and appointed themselves "one head"? Have not the sticks of Judah and Israel been bound together in our country today? Do not Jews and Israelites already live together here in the U.S. in peace?Then what of the Olivet Prophecy in Matthew 24 where Jesus said: Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"Who are the son, the moon, and the stars? Are they not Jacob/Israel? Remember Joseph's dream where the "son, the moon, and the eleven stars made obeisance to him"? Then Jacob said, "you mean I, your mother and your brothers will bow to you one day?"And are not Jacob/Israel all but silenced in the world today? Is there not great darkness among our people? If we go out into public with this message, are we not ridiculed and silenced? Do the churches reject that we are Jacob/Israel today?And what of the prophecy of Satan being "loosed from his prison to go out and deceive the nations"? Are not the nations of the world "deceived" today into believing the false prophet and the New World Order? Are we not under the captivity of Mystery Babylon? Are we not under economic slavery to the usury money system, at the mercy of corrupted political leaders, and are we not seeing the rise again of the political and religious power of the Roman Catholic Church?Do we not believe that the Second Coming of Christ is now "imminent"? He could come at any time now, right?These are the last times. We await the "sign of the son of Man in heaven" and his coming in great power and glory in the clouds of heaven.Kim
 

kkboldt

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kkboldt, unorthodoxchristian and kriss,If you believe that the 70th week was fulfilled in the past, then how do you explain that we still have sin? Daniel states that with the completion of the 70 weeks there will be an end to sin.Dan 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Here is another concern. If what you say is true, then how do you explain the Anti-Christ and his mark? My point is that if the 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled in the past, then the Anti-Christ and the mark have already happened. And if you believe this and it turns out that the 70th week is in in the future, you won't recognize the Anti-Christ and his mark because you believe that it happened in the past.In Yehoshua,Guy Smithhttp://www.geocities.com/guysmith123/144000.html
Hi Guy,Those are all "excellent" questions! Yes, we still have sin. Why? Because "sin is the transgression of the law". And where the law is still in effect, we have sin.Where does it say that the phrase, "to make an end of sin" means we are going to be "sinless"? I have found nothing in the Bible that states we are going to be sinless. Our sins were to be "forgiven".Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:If Jesus thought that "last week" wasn't until the very end of times (today), then he would have said to forgive, 70x6, but he didn't, he said 70x7 which is 490. Thus speaking of Daniels's 70 week prophecy of the "times of forgiveness". NOTE: there is no "gap" in either Daniel's prophecy or what Jesus says about forgiveness.Christ fulfilled Daniel's 70 week prophecy. He made an end to sin by dying on the cross. For all intents and purposes, we are forgiven of our sins now, then our sins are no longer remembered of God, hence, we appear sinless and pure before God.We have figuratively "put on white robes and washed them in the blood of Christ" as the book of Revelation states. We are not "literal" virgins, right? 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."If we believe we are still to follow, IN HEART, the 10 Commandments, statutes, and judgements, then the law is still in effect. Is it not? I don't mean this in the "legalistic" sense.Jesus said:Matthew 5:17-19 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.The "promise" of eternal life has been given, but it hasn't been fulfilled yet. We ALSO still have DEATH in the world, do we not? People are till dying.Is not "DEATH" the last enemy to be destroyed, not "sin"?The Apostle Paul wrote:1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."We have been forgiven for our sins, PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE, but that doesn't mean we are not yet sinners. Jesus said, "go forth and sin no more". He didn't say "go forth, you are now "sinless". We have now have a responsibility NOT to sin anymore. But our very thoughts are impure. And how many of us sin without even realizing it? So even though we are still sinners, when we humbly confess them to Jesus, we are forgiven for them.Now regarding the "Anti-Christ" and his mark, that already happened. 1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."Did you know that about 400 years ago, the Roman Catholic Church issued a proclamation that on Ash Wednesday, the masses must receive either the Ash on their foreheads or on their hands or they would not be allowed to buy or sell in the markets?Do you know that Roman Catholics still practice the placing of the "Ash" on the forehead during Lent? I had some coworkers who were still doing this.Did you know this?Did you also know that the Roman Catholic Church is the first organization to set up the "usury" money system after the historical King Nebudchanezzar in ancient Babylon?Did you know that Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the Second Temple Jerusalem temple in 167 BC by dedicating the altarto Zeus and then slaughtering a pig on that alter? He desecrated the Holy of Holies.Then later, in AD 40 the Roman Emperor Caligula announced that he would place a statue of himself in the Jerusalem temple. Many Jews believed this to be the act of "desolation" to which Daniel was referreing. These were the first of the "abominations of desolation" that stood in the Holy place. When the Romans destroyed the Temple in 70 AD, they set up the Statue of Jupiter where the "Holy of Holies" once stood and built a shrine to Jupiter around the statue.Could this be the "abomination of desolation" that both Daniel and Jesus spoke of?If this is so, then the "antichrist" system of Rome was already in play at that time.The "antichrist" can be found throughout history.....as Nero, Domitian, the Papacy, etc., all have set themselves up and were worshipped as "God".The Pope's very name is "Vicarius Filei Dei" which means "vicar of the son of God".What did Jesus say:Matthew 24:24-26 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe it not.What great religion came out of the desert? What great religion has a leader that is elected in the "secret chambers". And only by a "puff of smoke" do we know he's been elected?Who is antichrist? Anyone who opposes the plans and purposes of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no ONE antichrist.Kim
 

Christina

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(kkboldt;26259)
Hi Kriss,You wrote:"If you stop and give it some thought why is this time where the Good news is we are saved by Grace any worse than the time before to be called the tribulation????? Makes no sense and theres no scriptures that say this I can remember."Me: Yes, I understand what you mean. I have meditated on this for years! Then I realized, we must understand the "times" we are living in. For that matter, why did so many Christians die or were persecuted by the Jews and the Romans when Christ promised them they were "saved by Grace"? Why didn't God spare them then? Why did they all have to die?How about that question?The answer. We are to be faithful to the end no matter what times we live in and no matter what happens to us.For example, the Seven Churches in the book of Revelation. Are they not actually Seven church periods where the people of God are subject to a different kind of tribulation? Are we not in the 7th Church period now (Laodicea)? The time of the Christian "lukewarmers"? The time when Christians looking at how much they've been blessed, are saying, "I am rich and am in need of nothing", but they don't realize they are "poor, blind, and naked?" Aren't the Christians in our country becoming too soft and tolerant because they've grown accustomed to their material blessings?And Have not the Tribes of Israel been gathered together already in the United States of America and appointed themselves "one head"? Have not the sticks of Judah and Israel been bound together in our country today? Do not Jews and Israelites already live together here in the U.S. in peace?Then what of the Olivet Prophecy in Matthew 24 where Jesus said: Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"Who are the son, the moon, and the stars? Are they not Jacob/Israel? Remember Joseph's dream where the "son, the moon, and the eleven stars made obeisance to him"? Then Jacob said, "you mean I, your mother and your brothers will bow to you one day?"And are not Jacob/Israel all but silenced in the world today? Is there not great darkness among our people? If we go out into public with this message, are we not ridiculed and silenced? Do the churches reject that we are Jacob/Israel today?And what of the prophecy of Satan being "loosed from his prison to go out and deceive the nations"? Are not the nations of the world "deceived" today into believing the false prophet and the New World Order? Are we not under the captivity of Mystery Babylon? Are we not under economic slavery to the usury money system, at the mercy of corrupted political leaders, and are we not seeing the rise again of the political and religious power of the Roman Catholic Church?Do we not believe that the Second Coming of Christ is now "imminent"? He could come at any time now, right?These are the last times. We await the "sign of the son of Man in heaven" and his coming in great power and glory in the clouds of heaven.Kim
The seven churches are types of churches No where is it said these are ages of types of tribulation???Yes Israel has come back as a nation but this is the Parable of the Fig tree which starts the last Generation it is from this time May 15, 1948 we are to start the count down And no Judah and Ephraim are not reunited under Israel this will not happen that two sticks are joined together under Christ and to my knowledge Judah has never excepted Christ as the Way and their savior this has never happenedSatan is currently physically held by Michael (rev12) he will be cast to earth kicked out of Heaven Woe unto those on earth for the devil has been cast down unto them He is loosed a little while is term used for 1000years after the second coming the second coming when after the millenium Satan is loosed for a little while You are ignoring many scriptures with details to explain certain events and not dividing times as it should be
 

kkboldt

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Dec 6, 2007
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[quote name='kriss;26273]The seven churches are types of churches No where is it said these are ages of types of tribulation???Hi Kriss' date='I didn't say the Seven Churches were "types of tribulation". I stated there are Seven "church periods" or "church ages" in consecutive order. The first being the time the Apostles lived in.For support of this theology go here:[url=http://members.tripod.com/sheltonjack/id25.htm']http://members.tripod.com/sheltonjack/id25.htm[/url]http://www.lwbc.co.uk/seven_churches.htmhttp://www.prophecyupdate.com/the_seven_churches.htmI've stated that the "great tribulation" has been going on for the last 2000 years. Therefore, these churches were going through tribulation (although experiencing tribulation in different ways).As far as the 1000 years goes. That's depends on what theology one believes. There are pre-millennialists, post-millennialists, and amillennialists.I started out believing in "post-millennialism", but now I coming to accept "amillennialism".I believe Satan has already been loosed because of what we are seeing in the world right now. The nations of the world are indeed deceived and the people imagine a vain thing.Psalms 2:1-3 "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."The Kingdom of God shall have no end. Therefore, it is not limited to a thousand years.HOWEVER, I have heard the 7th day of rest argument, though, and it is very interesting.Since Adam, there has been approximately 6000 years, and now we are about to enter the 7th. "Six days of creation and rest on the 7th."This is very interesting. The thousands years is going to be a "rest period"?Back in the book of Genesis, God said this:Gen 6:3 "And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."Now I know some believe that this means the "life span of men" after the Flood.But when you read the book of Jasher, it states that God gave men 120 years to shape up before he sent the flood. So what God was really saying, is that men had another 120 years to repent of their sins then he would send the Flood.But there is even a Greater prophecy here. The Apostle Peter wrote this:2 Peter 3:8-9 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."From here, in the book of Psalms:psalms 90:3-5 "Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men. For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up."If you multiply 120 x 50 (which is a Jubile year) you get 6000.This cannot be a coincidence. The Jubile is very important in Biblical numerology. Because the Jubile was used to determine biblical time periods and generations.For example, there was 2000 years between Adam and Abraham. Then 2000 years between Abraham and Jesus. Divide 2000 by 50, you get 40. We know that 40 is a very significant biblical number.And now it has been approximately 2000 years from the birth of Christ. 40 Jubile years.Just some things to think about.Kim
 

crooner

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Aug 11, 2007
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kkboldtdoesnt amillennialism believe Jesus has come already? If so 1st and 2nd Thess clears that up very clearly.