Does one need to study the bible?

If you read the Word but don't do it then you are a double-minded man. It is not only important to talk the talk but to walk the walk.

James_1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. ( it is possible for you to deceive yourself ).
James_1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
James_1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
James_1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Jas 4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Not to get off topic here but, John, you seem to know scripture really well and claim to follow it to a "T". Can you say you truly have perfect and sacrificial love? Because based off of our numerous conversations, I'm not so sure you may....... Just a question.

Johnlove said:

[SIZE=16pt]Don’t know what the point of your post is, but am wondering if you believe one who sins is a doer of the Word?[/SIZE]

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The point is that James was writing this to the Church, not to the unbelievers. Why do you think he felt a need to communicate these concepts to the Church?

[SIZE=16pt]"From what I have personally seen of the Christian Church almost all its members behave like ordinary people. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Ordinary people still sin."[/SIZE]

True, some do. Some do in fact think that because they accepted Christ as their savior that it is a get out of jail card. Do you, John, have compassion for them?

John,

Another case of you taking Scripture out of context. Lets look at the whole passage.

“To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers! Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:7–11, ESV)

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So here in the same passage Paul says that they are doing "wrong and defraud" and then later says, "you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified." The point here is not that a Christian can never do wrong (the entire context is about these Corinthians behaving badly). The point is that they have been washed and saved to live a new and different life. The point is that they have been rescued to live a new life and they should not be behaving like those who do not belong to the kingdom of God, because those behaviors are unfitting for anyone who is a child of God. So again, this is not a case of Paul saying, "If you ever sin, you are not a Christian. The only way you know you belong to God is if you never sin." No, not at all. Rather, Paul is essentially saying, "Stop sinning! Why would you act like that? These behaviors belong to those who are going to be condemned by God. You have been washed and cleansed so start acting like what you are!"

We see this kind of language all over in Paul's writing. We see the same type of language where Paul is calling believers to live like what God has made them in Romans 6:

“What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 6:1–11, ESV)

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Paul doesn't say, "You are dead to sin and you can never sin if you are a true Christian." No, he says, "How can we who died to sin still live in it?...So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin..." Faith calls us to believe what God has made us. THAT is what transforms our behavior from one that is enslaved to sin to one that is transformed by grace. Faith does not cease once we become Christians Johnlove. We still must believe in grace and love even after we have become a Christian. According to you, grace ends once we become a Christian and after that we are affirmed or denied by our works (sinning or not sinning). This is much closer to what the Judiazers taught than biblical Christianity.

“Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?” (Galatians 3:2–3, ESV)

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No, we aren't saved by grace and then approved by God by living thenceforth living perfectly. That is falling from grace and relying on works in order to show oneself approved by what THEY do rather than what CHRIST has done for them. This is a false teaching known as Galatianism. Very dangerous John and not the true Gospel (as Paul clearly teaches in Galatians).

Johnloves, I admit that I admire Wormwoods posts, but we have significant disagreements. I am Catholic so it is to be expected, however his exegesis is excellent - yours is faulty. I am not meaning to disrespect you - I just think you need to know from another perspective. Please find a teacher and learn what the Bible has to say - you will be so blessed and freed.

Johnlove said:

[SIZE=16pt]Wrong![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”[/SIZE]

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Seriously??? I agree with you and I'm wrong???

John,
Even though I disagree with you, as many of us do, I have still respected your opinion and John, I have even prayed for you. It seems to me you may something deeper you need to face and deal with. I simply do not understand where you are coming from. You seem to have nothing but disdain for our opinions and beliefs. I have hoped day after day of discussion on here that I could eventually find common ground with you as I have with the other members on here. I really do! John, I really think YOU need to ask Christ for some guidance and make sure you are on the right path, my friend. I have true compassion for you, brother. I am saddened that you just cant see where your faults are. I will continue to pray for you, dear brother. May the Lord grant you peace and understanding.

God bless, John.

I pray for you, brother.

Johnlove said:

[SIZE=16pt]To believe what you want to believe about God you need to somehow disregard much of the written Word of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]You don’t like what I post, and what I post is scripture. I don’t tell people what the scripture posted by me says.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The Written Word of God has been placed in the bible to tell us about God, and what God demands of us.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]People have found many different ways to be able to ignore scripture that tells him or her what does not fit with his or her personal theology.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]To make me seem wrong people have to put a totally different meaning of the scripture quoted by me. Different meaning then what scripture says. [/SIZE]

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Yes, John. You post scripture. My contention is how YOU interpret the scripute. Surely out of all the faiths in this community we can not all be wrong other than yourself. Do you not find it even a little odd that even pastors on this forum dont agree with you? Those folks went to school for this. They have degrees in theology and attended seminary. Their resume dictates they are a lot closer to the truth then what you are.

John,

That is a terrible characterization of Seminary. People go to seminary because they want to devote their full time to studying the Scriptures and learn from wise teachers who have committed their lives to knowing the Word of God in every detail. No, you do not have to attend Seminary to understand the Bible just like you don't have to get a degree in construction to learn how to build a house. It is just as wrong for you to judge people who attend seminary as it is wrong for seminary students to claim that people who don't go to Bible school are ignorant or uncommitted to knowing the Word.

Wormwood said:

John,

That is a terrible characterization of Seminary. People go to seminary because they want to devote their full time to studying the Scriptures and learn from wise teachers who have committed their lives to knowing the Word of God in every detail. No, you do not have to attend Seminary to understand the Bible just like you don't have to get a degree in construction to learn how to build a house. It is just as wrong for you to judge people who attend seminary as it is wrong for seminary students to claim that people who don't go to Bible school are ignorant or uncommitted to knowing the Word.

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So, if I'm correct, and I like to think that I am, if he is judging someone..... I do believe that is a sin!!! Though shalt not judge! Uh oh..... Theory is getting a little shaky.

No! Scripture tells us one can’t come to know God by having man teach him or her.
Only God can teach one to know God. That is why Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit.
(1 John 2: 27)
(1 Corinthians 2:10-13)
If the seminaries taught one to know God, then there would be no separation of the Christian Church.
So again show me that I am wrong.
The Catholics, don’t believe like the Baptist, and we can go one to see that there those so off like the Christian Reformed, and Mormons.
They all believe they are Christian, and teach a very different Gospel.

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Ok, I will show you that you are wrong:

“And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.” (1 Corinthians 12:28, ESV)

“And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,” (Ephesians 4:11–13, ESV)

“For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.” (Hebrews 5:12–13, ESV)

“Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.” (James 3:1, ESV)

“Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,” (1 Timothy 3:2, ESV)

So God appointed to the CHURCH, some to be teachers for EQUIPPING THE SAINTS. This is not about teachers who teach unbelievers. It is a gift of God...for the church! According to you, all these verses mean nothing because no one needs a teacher. Someone just needs to hear the Gospel, then the Holy Spirit swoops in and makes it so that the person does not need to learn anything from anyone. This is nothing more than Western, individualistic, postmodern naval gazing that is completely foreign to the teaching in the NT that the church is a community, or body, that all has different gifts for the purpose of building each other up.

Differences of opinion and doctrine is not a sign that people do not know God or have the Holy Spirit. Have you ever read the NT? The church has always had divisions and debates on issues. Of course it is not right, but it doesn't mean they aren't Christians. Who is to say YOU are the only one who is right? What a ridiculous notion! People don't agree with each other about doctrine.....therefore, I am the only one who is right. Its this type of haughty and arrogant attitude that CAUSES division in the church. If people were more humble and didn't claim they were the only enlightened ones, as you are doing, there would be far less division in the church!

Johnlove said:

[SIZE=16pt]No! Scripture tells us one can’t come to know God by having man teach him or her.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Only God can teach one to know God. That is why Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2: 27)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 2:10-13) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]If the seminaries taught one to know God, then there would be no separation of the Christian Church. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]So again show me that I am wrong. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The Catholics, don’t believe like the Baptist, and we can go one to see that there those so off like the Christian Reformed, and Mormons. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]They all believe they are Christian, and teach a very different Gospel. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Yes I was Catholic from birth to my age forty some. I went to Mass and Communion every day from age twenty-five until age forty. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I was a co-instructor in adult Catholic Information classes for years.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]All those years I tried so hard to not sin. Did everything the Church taught me to do, so as to make it possible to not sin. Nothing I did made any difference, sin/Satan always won.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus ask me to be a minister for him and to give my life to him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]When I ask Jesus what seminary to attend he told me: “NO! Don’t read about me I will teach you about me.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Not long after Jesus began to personally teach me I saw that the Catholic Church was teaching error. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]This bothered me greatly, so asking Jesus how I could stay submitted to a church that was not teaching what he taught. Jesus told me to cooperate with, not to fight. Then he told me that I was no longer to be under the Churches headship.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]After about a year of Jesus teaching me he told me to go be cleansed. I knew he meant to go to confession. I called a priest friend that I knew, and asked him to come to my residence to hear my confession.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The sins that was needed for me to confess were sin that I had committed, but did not even know were truly sins. These sins were done before Jesus had started teaching me.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The day after I confessed my sins, Jesus told me that I was now clean, and he could use me.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus has kept me clean for forty years. Not sinning was my prayer for ever, and only in and through God was that made possible.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]It truly has made me sad that people instead of asking how God made it possible for us not to sin, they tell me that it is impossible to live without sinning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Then people mock me because I am trying to share how God made it possible to not sin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I had Jesus sit next to me and teach me that Christians don’t sin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Scripture says anyone born of God does not sin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]People have done their best to mock scripture that tells them a Christian does not sin, also.[/SIZE]

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I'm confused. You said you saw that the Catholic Church was teaching error. And that Jesus told you that you were no longer under the Church headship. Then you said Jesus told you to be cleansed and you knew this meant confession....So you then asked a Catholic priest to hear your confession from a church that you said was teaching error and whose headship you were no longer under? After which you said Jesus said you were now cleansed....after you said he told you the Catholic Church taught error and that you were no longer under the Church headship? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me at all.