Sabbath-Keeping

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Raeneske

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justaname said:
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works."
5 And again in this passage he said, "They shall not enter my rest."
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
7 again he appoints a certain day, "Today," saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Hebrews 4:1-13

Here now is the complete context of the verse...
How are we to strive to enter the rest if it is simply observing the Shabbat?

Here is the key verse in interpreting this particular periscope.

for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. Hebrews 4:10
That's like asking, how do we strive to enter into perfection, by simply practicing perfection. You strive with your might to rest here upon this earth upon God's Sabbath, and that you may rest in heaven with God and His creation. Sabbath means rest. You preform your works, then "Sabbath", or rest as God did from His works. He that has entered into God's Sabbath, rest, has ceased from his own works, as God did from His. Were not the works finished in creation week? Did not God then set the very day He rested then as special? Does not He call the Sabbath His rest? Did He not swear in His wrath that those who did not believe would not enter into His Sabbath? In Creation week, He rested with the works He had created. See God's joy and happiness, resting with His creation after creating them? See His joy and happiness, with all that was very good? And now, though in a marred creation, we may still come upon the very seventh day that He set apart and keep His rest. God's rest IS His Sabbath. Therefore, the Sabbath is the sign between Him and His people, between Him and His Creation. It is the sign that He is the Lord God, Who sanctifies us. Those sanctified people shall rest with Him in eternity, from Sabbath to Sabbath. Not those who do not believe, but those who believe. It is those who believe that keep His Rest. Not those who do not believe. Anyone can rest upon the seventh day. But not anyone can keep the Sabbath. Only those who truly delight in the LORD can keep the Sabbath, for their delight is resting with Him, worshiping Him, praising Him. They keep the Sabbath with joy in their hearts, and not as a meaningless round of ceremonies. They truly keep it holy, as He demanded. The memorial of creation, made for man, that man may be blessed. The memorial that remaineth, as Hebrews 4:9 says.

It remains from Eden. It remains from the law. It remains now. And it shall remain forever. It remaineth.
 

justaname

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Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28
 

Raeneske

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justaname said:
Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28
Is not Christ talking to all those who will truly come to Him? How can those who come, but disobey, receive rest? How can Christ give rest to those who truly want no part of it? It is not the blatant transgressor of God's Divine Law who obtains rest, but the obedient soul to Christ that obtains rest. It is not the murderer, the adulterer, the liar, who obtains rest from Christ. It is the obedient. When you are obedient to Christ in all particulars, then you will experience His rest. But so long as you reject His eternal rest, you will struggle to know true rest. Keep His Sabbath, and you will experience rest like you've never known before. You will experience joy and peace, like you've never known before. Of course, this in itself can do nothing, if you are still disobedient in all other areas. But if it's the missing link, the missing silver coin, you will know Christ's rest more than ever before.
 

justaname

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6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.
7 And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
Matthew 12:6-8
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works."
5 And again in this passage he said, "They shall not enter my rest."
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
7 again he appoints a certain day, "Today," saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,
10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Hebrews 4:1-13

Here now is the complete context of the verse...
How are we to strive to enter the rest if it is simply observing the Shabbat?

Here is the key verse in interpreting this particular periscope.

for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. Hebrews 4:10

The rest spoken of here is eternal, not weekly observance. The rest here is a promise not a command.
The suggestion that a "contextual" interpretation demands no active command to cease from work is false because it ignores both the New Covenant law on your heart to keep the Fourth Commandment and verse 10 of Hebrews 4: that we who rest in Christ are to cease from the same work that God ceased from on the seventh day: literal work.
 

justaname

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In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13


16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Colossians 2:16-19
 

Axehead

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How does the OT define "work" and how does the NT define "work" in the context of the Sabbath?

Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo_31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo_31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

This "ruler" was obviously using the OT as his reference point. (This is the only NT reference of this type of OT work).
Luke_13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

But, what type of "work" is the NT most concerned about, now that through Jesus Christ has come grace and truth? Is the NT concerned about working on the Sabbath to help others? Is it concerned about us resting from our own works of righteousness to make ourselves acceptable to God? Can we do good works and yet rest in the work of God, which is Christ? Yes, we can. We can work 7 days a week if need be (as Jesus did) and yet rest. I submit to you that Jesus Christ was always working, and yet always resting (in His Father).

Let's take a look at Christ's good works on the Sabbath.

Matt_12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Matt_12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Matt_12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?


According to Jesus, it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath (and take care of your sheep - family).
Matt_12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. (Jesus demonstrates that doing well involves working).

Mar_2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

The Pharisee must have forgotten about this:
Matt_12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Are we watching one another so that we may accuse according to our theology?
Mar_3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

Pharisees are a tough crowd, aren't they? They put burdens on others that they will not carry themselves.

Luke_6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
Luke_6:7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.


I'll betch ya, dollar to a donut that this Pharisee would want to be healed on the Sabbath if he were in these same shoes. And of course, if he needed healing then he would be able to justify it completely.
Luke_13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

Luke_13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

But they really don't care about people.
Luk_13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

They only cared about themselves and used religion to control people and personally profit off of them.

So, much so, that they sought to slay Jesus because He was emancipating the sheep from the Law.
John_5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
John_5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
John_7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. (circumcising a man sounds like work to me).
John_7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Heb_4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Obviously, the Christian has not ceased from working, but if one has entered into Christ's rest, then one has ceased from their own "works of righteousness".
Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Therefore, from the Lord's teachings and example we can see that, just like Him, we can always be working and yet always be at rest. If you choose to set apart a day for the Lord or two days then that's great. I would love to work 3 days and take 4 off. Unfortunately, I can't do that. Often I work 6 or 7 days, but I am always resting in the Lord. He is my Sabbath Rest. I am no longer striving.

Matt_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matt_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

The secret of rest, are the first 3 words of Matt 11:28 - COME UNTO ME

Turn away from men and turn towards the Lord.

Axehead
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13


16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Colossians 2:16-19
Amen, which is exactly why this equation is false:

Old Covenant = Law

If the Old Covenant was "the Law", then we should be able to substitute "the Law" for "Old Covenant" in Romans 3:31 KJV:

"Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through grace? God forbid, we establish the (Old Covenant)."

We establish the Old Covenant? NEVER.

Therefore, the "Old Covenant" cannot be "the law". And since the New Covenant consist of God writing His Law "in their minds and on their hearts", it is time to end all this hatred against the law, including the Sabbath, and "delight to do Thy will..Thy LAW is within my heart." Psalms 40:8 KJV
 

zeke25

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Phoneman777 said:
The Pishitta version says exactly what I said. The word "rest" is "Kataposis" throughout chapter 4 EXCEPT in verse 9, where it is "Sabbatismos", which refers not to plain old rest, but to Sabbathkeeping, which is why the Pishitta translates it so. I haven't removed anything, it it you who have removed this fact in order to ignore the implication.

Christians who think the Old Covenant was LAW and the New Covenant is GRACE should consider Scripture, rather than the contradictions of preachers who claim the law is no more, but then refuse to preach that we may have Satan, Baal, Allah, or any other god before Jesus (for you antinomianists, that's the First Commandment).

God Himself specifically defines what He will do to those who partake of His New Covenant:


Sabbatismos - I haven't had a chance to verify that this is the Greek word used in Hebrews 4:9, but even if it is true, it merely states what God's sabbath rest is for His people. It is a rest that transcends this physical plain. You have missed the meaning of God's sabbath rest from the beginning. It is a spiritual rest, not a physical one. Those who cannot move past the physical to the spiritual will be forever in confusion about this issue. Tell me, why would a loving God saddle His people with an actual Sabbath day of rest and not work allowed for all time? Simple answer, He would not, and He did not.

"I will write My laws in their minds and on their hearts." Jeremiah 31:31 KJV

Paul says the laws that God writes on the hearts of New Covenant Christians are the Ten Commandments which were formerly written in stone:
"..written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. Not on tables of stone, but on the fleshly tables of the heart." 2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV

It is the Law of Moses that was nailed to the cross, but the Law of God "stands fast forever and ever". (Psalms 111:7-8 KJV)



Sabbatismos - I haven't had a chance to verify that this is the Greek word used in Hebrews 4:9, but even if it is true, it merely states what God's sabbath rest is for His people. It is a rest that transcends this physical plain. You have missed the meaning of God's sabbath rest from the beginning. It is a spiritual rest, not a physical one. Those who cannot move past the physical to the spiritual will be forever in confusion about this issue. Tell me, why would a loving God saddle His people with an actual Sabbath day of rest and not allow work to be done for all time? Simple answer, He would not, and He did not. Anyone who keeps a physical Sabbath and thinks that he is fulfilling God's requirements has fallen from grace. - Gal. 5:4.

The reason there are so many opinions (really only two) on this subject is because some are looking at this issue from the physical and some from the spiritual. You guys are comparing apples with oranges. It doesn't work. The child of flesh was Ismael, the child of promise was Isaac. If you want to argue your place in Ismael's kingdom, that's your business. But I will take my place in the kingdom of Isaac.

Zeke25
 

justaname

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Phoneman777 said:
Amen, which is exactly why this equation is false:

Old Covenant = Law

If the Old Covenant was "the Law", then we should be able to substitute "the Law" for "Old Covenant" in Romans 3:31 KJV:

"Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through grace? God forbid, we establish the (Old Covenant)."

We establish the Old Covenant? NEVER.

Therefore, the "Old Covenant" cannot be "the law". And since the New Covenant consist of God writing His Law "in their minds and on their hearts", it is time to end all this hatred against the law, including the Sabbath, and "delight to do Thy will..Thy LAW is within my heart." Psalms 40:8 KJV
The Law of Moses is embodied in the Old Covenant, which includes the 10 commandments. Ask any practicing Jew today, yet I would not use the term Old Covenant.

and again...

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Colossians 2:16-19

and Peter said in reference to the Law of Moses, that includes the 10 commandments, speaking about Gentile believers...

“And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10“Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11“But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

Finally the commands of God to the New Covenant believer are to believe in the name of Jesus the Christ, and to love one another...this is what is written on our hearts, not the 10 commandments that were written on stone tablets that are fading along with the other 603 mitzvot which is embodied in the old covenant.

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
The Law of Moses is embodied in the Old Covenant, which includes the 10 commandments. Ask any practicing Jew today, yet I would not use the term Old Covenant.

and again...

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Colossians 2:16-19

and Peter said in reference to the Law of Moses, that includes the 10 commandments, speaking about Gentile believers...

“And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10“Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11“But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

Finally the commands of God to the New Covenant believer are to believe in the name of Jesus the Christ, and to love one another...this is what is written on our hearts, not the 10 commandments that were written on stone tablets that are fading along with the other 603 mitzvot which is embodied in the old covenant.

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.
No one is suggesting that the yoke of the ceremonial law of Moses be placed on the neck of New Covenant Christians - what we are saying is that you are not a liberty to cast off the Ten Commandments of God - a separate and distinct law from the law of Moses - which is written by the Holy Spirit in our hearts, seeing that we may now safely disregard circumcision, passover, etc. but NOT theft, lying, etc.

Can a person have Satan before God in his life because he wants to indulge the sinful pleasures that Satan has to offer, while believing that Jesus' grace covers the fact that he has Satan before God?

If you truly believe that you are non longer obligated to the First Commandment, then you have to answer "yes". If your answer is "no", then stop being selective in which laws of God you'll submit to and which laws you will rebel against, because if we keep the whole law, yet offend in one, we are guilty of all.
 

justaname

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Phoneman777 said:
No one is suggesting that the yoke of the ceremonial law of Moses be placed on the neck of New Covenant Christians - what we are saying is that you are not a liberty to cast off the Ten Commandments of God - a separate and distinct law from the law of Moses - which is written by the Holy Spirit in our hearts, seeing that we may now safely disregard circumcision, passover, etc. but NOT theft, lying, etc.

Can a person have Satan before God in his life because he wants to indulge the sinful pleasures that Satan has to offer, while believing that Jesus' grace covers the fact that he has Satan before God?

If you truly believe that you are non longer obligated to the First Commandment, then you have to answer "yes". If your answer is "no", then stop being selective in which laws of God you'll submit to and which laws you will rebel against, because if we keep the whole law, yet offend in one, we are guilty of all.
The 10 commandments are embodied in the 613 mitzvot, which are embodied in the Old Covenant. This is the Law. There is no distinction.

The Christian standard then...


You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

And again...
’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

This standard encompasses every "rule".

This is the liberty we have as Christians.

Shalom.
 
B

brakelite

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Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
What is/was the law of sin and death, and what made me free from it, and how did that work?
Am I free from condemnation because the law is taken out of the way, or because I am forgiven?When my children were small, I would ask them to do some chores. Sometimes, thankfully not often, I would come home and find some of the chores not done or completed. I would remind them of what I asked, and they realised they were all of a sudden “under the law”, they stood condemned. However, being the loving dad I would forgive them, and now, they were under grace. They were very happy about that. But the chores still remained undone, and my requirements that they be completed still stood. The difference though is that now I was home and I could help them. Even more grace! So should my children have continued to disobey my commands in order to grace abound? Or do you think that they should not only have done them in the first place, but most certainly after having being forgiven, done them later?
Likewise, do you not think that after having being forgiven our sins, ought we not be even more eager to obey God’s commandments now that we are under grace, and not under condemnation of the law? For is it not still God’s will that we refrain from murder, theft, adultery, covetousness, and lying? Is it still not God’s will that we don’t worship other gods, that we place Him as our priority in life, that we should not remove the holiness from His name, nor the holiness from His day? And is it not also true that God is more than willing to give us abundantly of His Spirit that we may walk always in His ways?
My way of thinking is that as we focus wholly on Christ, we become like Him. The more time we spend with Him, the more like Him we become. Yes? So what is the best way to measure how we are progressing in our relationship with Him? Is not the law of God a mirror to our soul? Is it not in place to inform us of our shortcomings, our frailties, and our weaknesses? Does it not reveal those areas where we need to repent and re-surrender our whole lives to our Creator God that He may sanctify and cleanse us from that sin? Even Paul extolled the law as being good, holy and honourable when it pointed out his covetousness. He was thankful for that because he wanted to live a life of true holiness before His God. Ought not we?
I agree that love is the ultimate end for those who grow to be Christlike. Jesus said that upon the two great commandments, loving God and our neighbour, hang all the law and the prophets. In other words, the law and the prophets are a detailed reflection of the true meaning of love. So when Jesus said we are to love one another, He wasn’t doing away with the law, He was informing us how to keep the law. Through love.
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
The 10 commandments are embodied in the 613 mitzvot, which are embodied in the Old Covenant. This is the Law. There is no distinction.

The Christian standard then...


You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

And again...
’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

This standard encompasses every "rule".

This is the liberty we have as Christians.

Shalom.
The Bible itself directly distinguishes the Mosaic from the Ten Commandments in several places.

The Two Great Commandments are not a replacement, but a summation of the Ten. You cannot say you love God while having Satan before Him. Or that you love your neighbor while stealing from him. If the Ten Commandments are done away with, then violating them would be acceptable in God's sight. Sin is breaking the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4 KJV), so why would we continue doing that which made necessary His death on the Cross? (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
 

justaname

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Your interpretation of the Bible distinguishes between the 613 mitzvot.

I agree You can not steal from your neighbor if you are loving him/her.

This is why love is the fulfillment of the Law...
 

JimParker

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Phoneman777 said:
The Bible itself directly distinguishes the Mosaic from the Ten Commandments in several places.

The Two Great Commandments are not a replacement, but a summation of the Ten. You cannot say you love God while having Satan before Him. Or that you love your neighbor while stealing from him. If the Ten Commandments are done away with, then violating them would be acceptable in God's sight. Sin is breaking the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4 KJV), so why would we continue doing that which made necessary His death on the Cross? (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
<<If the Ten Commandments are done away with,...>>

I don't think anyone is saying that.

<<The Bible itself directly distinguishes the Mosaic from the Ten Commandments in several places.>>

It does. However, the ten commandments along with the rest of the laws make up the "Law of Moses." When Jesus or the apostles referred to the "law" they were referring to all of the Torah, not just the Decalogue.
(see: Mat 12:5; Luke 2:23-24; 1Co 14:21, 34)

<<The Two Great Commandments are not a replacement, but a summation of the Ten.>>

Not just of the 10. According to Jesus, they are a summation of ALL the law and the Prophets.

Mat 22:37-40 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments.

He also said: "...in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
(Mat 7:12)

Sin is breaking the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4 KJV),

That is false. 1 John 3:4 says: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

It does NOT say: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the ten commandments: for sin is the transgression of the ten commandments."

Don't rewrite scripture to suit your beliefs.

Rewrite your beliefs to suit scripture.
 

justaname

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brakelite said:
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
What is/was the law of sin and death, and what made me free from it, and how did that work?
Am I free from condemnation because the law is taken out of the way, or because I am forgiven?When my children were small, I would ask them to do some chores. Sometimes, thankfully not often, I would come home and find some of the chores not done or completed. I would remind them of what I asked, and they realised they were all of a sudden “under the law”, they stood condemned. However, being the loving dad I would forgive them, and now, they were under grace. They were very happy about that. But the chores still remained undone, and my requirements that they be completed still stood. The difference though is that now I was home and I could help them. Even more grace! So should my children have continued to disobey my commands in order to grace abound? Or do you think that they should not only have done them in the first place, but most certainly after having being forgiven, done them later?
Likewise, do you not think that after having being forgiven our sins, ought we not be even more eager to obey God’s commandments now that we are under grace, and not under condemnation of the law? For is it not still God’s will that we refrain from murder, theft, adultery, covetousness, and lying? Is it still not God’s will that we don’t worship other gods, that we place Him as our priority in life, that we should not remove the holiness from His name, nor the holiness from His day? And is it not also true that God is more than willing to give us abundantly of His Spirit that we may walk always in His ways?
My way of thinking is that as we focus wholly on Christ, we become like Him. The more time we spend with Him, the more like Him we become. Yes? So what is the best way to measure how we are progressing in our relationship with Him? Is not the law of God a mirror to our soul? Is it not in place to inform us of our shortcomings, our frailties, and our weaknesses? Does it not reveal those areas where we need to repent and re-surrender our whole lives to our Creator God that He may sanctify and cleanse us from that sin? Even Paul extolled the law as being good, holy and honourable when it pointed out his covetousness. He was thankful for that because he wanted to live a life of true holiness before His God. Ought not we?
I agree that love is the ultimate end for those who grow to be Christlike. Jesus said that upon the two great commandments, loving God and our neighbour, hang all the law and the prophets. In other words, the law and the prophets are a detailed reflection of the true meaning of love. So when Jesus said we are to love one another, He wasn’t doing away with the law, He was informing us how to keep the law. Through love.
How come you do not mention the temple commands, the festivals and feast days, the commands dealing with the land we keep or the clothing we wear? Do you have a mezuzah on your door posts or have you cut the hair along the side of your head or do you wear your tefillin?

Again if you hold we should obey the commands given through Moses, then do not pick and choose. To be guilty of one aspect of the Law is to be guilty of the whole Law.

The Pharisees were good at being whitewashed tombs, keeping all the Law for all the wrong reasons. It is not the details of the Law we need be concerned with, it is the spirit of the obedience, the intention of the heart, the motive for action. Were not the priests guilty of breaking the Shabbat, yet remained unpunished? The Lord knows how we labor and how we rest, and allows for each to rest in their own time, in His allotment.

We are all priests within the New Covenant and our Shabbat is Christ. It is not a weekly observance we are subject to, rather we have an eternal lifestyle and Godly King we are subject to. I will answer to my Lord and Master concerning the days He allows for my rest.

Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
 

Phoneman777

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justaname said:
Your interpretation of the Bible distinguishes between the 613 mitzvot.

I agree You can not steal from your neighbor if you are loving him/her.

This is why love is the fulfillment of the Law...
I mean to say that the Bible distinguishes between what Moses wrote on paper and what God wrote with His finger in stone and that it specifically says that the one ended at the cross while the other will never end. That's why we'll be keeping the seventh day Sabbath in the new heaven and new earth, but will not be observing Passover, etc.
 

zeke25

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Phoneman777 said:
I mean to say that the Bible distinguishes between what Moses wrote on paper and what God wrote with His finger in stone and that it specifically says that the one ended at the cross while the other will never end. That's why we'll be keeping the seventh day Sabbath in the new heaven and new earth, but will not be observing Passover, etc.
Phoneman777,

You keep looking at Sabbath observance in the physical. You must move to the spiritual. We will be forever - not just one day per week - observing His sabbath rest. Besides, you cannot observe a weekly sabbath when Revelation 10:6 kicks in: "And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer."

Also, there is no Scripture that tells us, as Christians, that we need to be observing the Law. It was only given to the Hebrews through Moses.

Zeke25
 

justaname

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Phoneman777 said:
I mean to say that the Bible distinguishes between what Moses wrote on paper and what God wrote with His finger in stone and that it specifically says that the one ended at the cross while the other will never end. That's why we'll be keeping the seventh day Sabbath in the new heaven and new earth, but will not be observing Passover, etc.
God has ordained the 10 commandments through the Old Covenant along with the other 603 commandments to the nation people of Israel, no one else.

Jews who are fulfilled are no longer subject to that covenant, rather the New Covenant.

Are you a New Covenant believer or do you practice Judaism?

12 And the LORD said to Moses,
13 "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exodus 31:12-13

12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not walk in my statutes but rejected my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live; and my Sabbaths they greatly profaned. "Then I said I would pour out my wrath upon them in the wilderness, to make a full end of them.
14 But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, in whose sight I had brought them out.
15 Moreover, I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land that I had given them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands,
16 because they rejected my rules and did not walk in my statutes, and profaned my Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.
17 Nevertheless, my eye spared them, and I did not destroy them or make a full end of them in the wilderness.
Ezekiel 20:12-17


Notice what the Lord says of His Sabbaths...it is a sighn between Him and the people of Israel...not between Him and the Church.

Here is the command concerning the Sabbath...

You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 31:14

Truly this is not the command for New Covenant believers...this does not apply to the Church nor did it ever.

Before you attempt to waiver and say " well this is about the festivals because it says Sabbaths (plural)" check the context. He is speaking of the weekly rest.
 
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