Sabbath-Keeping

Phoneman777 said:

Good question: Jesus used many temporal things to explain eternal things, and we shouldn't be willfully ignorant of ancient object lessons that we still use today. Something "written in stone" is regarded just as much today as 3,500 years ago as having to do with an eternal, unchangeable nature of a thing or condition.

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False!

Perhaps 3,500 years ago gullible people would have accepted that kind of argument, not knowing anything better, but "today", we understand stone is no more "eternal" than anything else in creation. And IRONICALLY the fact that the 10 commandments were written on stone has NOT been handed down to us on stone, but on papyrus.. paper.. and other supposedly more "temporal" mediums.

So why cling on to a FALSE argument and use it to nullify scripture - which clearly teaches us that the ministry of the 10 commandments was "fading" and becoming obsolete???

Why Phoneman?

mjrhealth said:

Yesterday when reading some posts. I got this awful feeling, so i asked the Lord what it was as I have experienced it before, what I received is " it this religious spirit crying,Do not touch Him He is mine".

Just like pharoh when God told Moses to tell Him " let my people go",but some choose not to leave Egypt and so remain slaves to Pharoh..

Enjoy yourself phoneman.

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The law of God is only a burden to those who don't love Jesus. I believe that you love Jesus, but you don't understand the difference between Justification and Sanctification. The one happens as soon as we surrender our hearts to Him, and the other is a life long process where we are transformed by the Holy Spriit into His likeness as we remain continually surrendered to Him. If we deny the Holy Spirit's right to this process by telling Him "no" when He exposes a cherished sin that He wants us to overcome, we shut ourselves out from salvation. How does He expose us to these sins? By His law! That's why He said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments."

UppsalaDragby said:

False!

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You are entitled to your opinion, though I firmly disagree.

So why cling on to a FALSE argument and use it to nullify scripture - which clearly teaches us that the ministry of the 10 commandments was "fading" and becoming obsolete???

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You are referring to Hebrews 8:13 KJV when you speak of "fading" and "becoming obsolete", but that text is actually speaking of the Old Covenant, not the Ten Commandments and we cannot Biblically replace the one for the other. Proof? Replace the word "law" with "Old Covenant" in Romans 3:31 KJV and see if that makes sense:

"Do we make void the (Old Covenant) through faith? God forbid, we establish the (Old Covenant)"

Clearly, we can't replace the Ten Commandment "law" with the words "Old Covenant", nor can we assign what the Bible says happened to the Old Covenant to the Ten Commandments, as you have done. While the Old Covenant is gone, the Ten Commandments remain to "stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness" because it will always be wrong to steal, lie, worship false gods, break the seventh day Sabbath, etc.

UppsalaDragby said:

Wrong! You have been listening too much to completely false arguments given to you by SDAs. The word (anthrōpos) can be translated to ANY of the following meanings according to Strong's:

I.a human being, whether male or female

A.generically, to include all human individuals

B.to distinguish man from beings of a different order

i.of animals and plants

ii.of from God and Christ

iii.of the angels

C.with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin

D.with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity

E.with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul

F.with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God

G.with reference to sex, a male

II.indefinitely, someone, a man, one

III.in the plural, people

IV.joined with other words, merchantman


Funnily enough, "a human being" is FIRST on the list!


How many times do I have to prove you wrong???


Instead of trying to BLUFF your way through this discussion, why don't you try to support your arguments (you know, the way I do) rather than just making the sloppy claims that SDAs use to support their doctrine?


There is no verse in the entire Bible that says we will be keeping the Mosaic version of the sabbath in heaven. You have been deceived.

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Yes, it can mean "one man" but how narrow minded does one have to be to think that it was only for one man? Of course it was created for "mankind", meaning all of us.

Why do you deny that we will be keeping the seventh day Sabbath in heaven, when Isaiah 66:23 KJV clearly says that "from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship"? It is the SAME Sabbath which he refers to in Isaiah 58:13 KJV when God calls it "My holy day". The extent to which you are willing to go to deny what is plainly revealed in Scripture is astounding.

mjrhealth said:

There are plenty of us who follow Christ and keep all days to God, every day is our sabath. God is not religious never has being.

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You can't "keep" everyday as a Sabbath because God only designated one day as a Sabbath rest and commanded us to work the other six. The rest in Jesus that I enjoy is evidenced by my weekly Sabbath rest which tells the world that my God is the Creator Who made the world in six days and rested the seventh. The god of this world has set up his Sunday, which I despise as a pathetic attempt by Satan to hijack what rightfully belongs to my Creator Jesus. Thank God we will be worshiping on what God calls "My holy day" in eternity and not the day dedicated to the Sun god. I know Christians claim to honor Sunday for the resurrection, but there's actually no Biblical directive to do that.

UppsalaDragby said:

And where did Jesus say that his "commandments" to Christains were equivalent to the 10 commandments? Nowhere! You are twisting Jesus own words. Jesus commanded us to "believe" and to "love our neighbor". That is the law of Christ. Is the law of Christ consistent with the 10 commandments? Yes. Is the law of Christ equivalent to the 10 commandments? No! Not unless you are willing to stone people for breaking them.

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If you love God, you will:
1. have no other gods before Me.
2. not engage in idolatry.
3. not blaspheme the name of God.
4. keep the seventh day Sabbath holy.

If you love you neighbor, you will:
5. honor father and mother.
6. not kill.
7. not commit adultery.
8. not steal.
9. not lie.
10. not covet.

The Two Great Commandments are a SUMMARY, NOT A REPLACEMENT of the Ten Commandments.

BTW, nothing in the Ten Commandments about stoning people.

Phoneman777 said:

You are entitled to your opinion, though I firmly disagree.

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What "opinion" are you referring to?

You are referring to Hebrews 8:13 KJV when you speak of "fading" and "becoming obsolete", but that text is actually speaking of the Old Covenant, not the Ten Commandments and we cannot Biblically replace the one for the other. Proof? Replace the word "law" with "Old Covenant" in Romans 3:31 KJV and see if that makes sense:

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As usual your conclusions are riddled with errors. Firstly, the passage of scripture that specifically refers to the 10 commandments (unless you know of anything else in scripture that was engraved in stone) is 2 Cor 3:7-11.


Secondly, neither Hebrews 8:13 nor anthing else in scripture makes any distinction between the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments, and, as I pointed out scripture actually defines the 10 commandments as the Old Covenant, not separate from it (Exodus 34:28, Deutronomy 4:13).


And thirdly, Romans 3:31 doesn't prove anything at all. You could easily replace the word law with "the laws of the Old Covenant" and it would make sense, since it is obviously the laws of the Old Covenant that Paul is talking about.

Phoneman777 said:

Yes, it can mean "one man" but how narrow minded does one have to be to think that it was only for one man? Of course it was created for "mankind", meaning all of us.

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I didn't make the claim that it was made for one man, I simply showed you that the word that you were using as proof that the Mosiac sabbath commandment was given to all men everywhere, cannot be confined to that one definition. I could say the same thing today if said that size 12 rubber boots were made for man, and not for kangaroos and only someone desparately trying to prove their theological stance would get all dogmatic about it.

You also ignore the point that scripture totally disproves your argument by telling us specifically that the sabbath was 1) not known before Sinai, and 2) that gentiles did not have the law.

So why contradict scripture in order to defend a false teaching?

Why do you deny that we will be keeping the seventh day Sabbath in heaven, when Isaiah 66:23 KJV clearly says that "from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship"? It is the SAME Sabbath which he refers to in Isaiah 58:13 KJV when God calls it "My holy day". The extent to which you are willing to go to deny what is plainly revealed in Scripture is astounding.

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Hehe... oh.. that one!! Listen Phoneman, Isaiah 66:23 does not "clearly" say that we will be keeping the Mosaic sabbath in heaven. First take off your SDA glasses and then read what the verse actually says. "From one new moon to another" and "from one sabbath to another" are expressions that denote a period of time! It is a way of saying "constantly" - that people will come constantly to worship.

Also, if it really meant what you want it to mean, then that would also mean that New Moon festivals would also have to be observed in heaven. But gee... aren't New Moon festivals part of the so-called "ceremonial" laws?

That's another theological knot that SDAs tie themselves up into.

Phoneman777 said:

The Two Great Commandments are a SUMMARY, NOT A REPLACEMENT of the Ten Commandments.

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It is not a matter of "replacing" commandments at all. It is whether or not we are born again and follow the Spirit of God, and the very fact that you still thinking in terms of lists of commandments shows that you do not understand the Gospel at all. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us and communicate the living commandments that God gives us. And you are also ignoring the fact that scripture tells us that the sabbath commandment was simply a shadow. If you love God, then obey him and come out of the shadows!

Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

See phoneman, by your very own admission you and your religion have condemend Christ

And again

Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

\How mant times do you need to condemn Christ

You really dont get it. Everyting you say throws mud in the face of Christ.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Who was He speaking to, who was teh covenant given to,

Its not yours.

1Jn_1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

In All His Love

If you love God, you will:
1. have no other gods before Me.
2. not engage in idolatry.
3. not blaspheme the name of God.
4. keep the seventh day Sabbath holy.

If you love you neighbor, you will:
5. honor father and mother.
6. not kill.
7. not commit adultery.
8. not steal.
9. not lie.
10. not covet.

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Thats the whole point, those who Love God will not do those things becasue they have the love of God within them, those without love need the commandments because they do not know love. Grace allowd us to be falliable humans relgion requiers us to clean the outside and leave the inside filty. Its all about how the pharsees appeared on teh outside but Christ only cares of teh inside.

Religion is an abomination, keeps men in bondage and slavery to man made rules and ideaologies.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.


In all His Love

Phoneman you are right on...you got it..the sunday crowd seem to think they can work their way into salvation by keeping a pagan day which is non Biblical..sunday..dedicated by the early roman church to the sungod which is the basis of their "worship"...the sunday crowd have difficulty distinguishing between God's law, the Ten commandments, which are the whole basis of our life if we are to follow Jesus and practice His love of God and love of neighbour (fellow man) and the law of MOSES which are the 613 circumcision, food, feast days, festivals, cleanliness etc laws which pointed to the cross, and ended at the cross, as per Acts 15, with the exception of 4 of them which the Apostles held onto...As Jesus said in Matthew 5..not one thing will be changed in the law (God's law) heaven and earth pass away and all is fulfilled..obviously referring to His return...heaven and earth are still here, so we have a way to go yet before all is fulfilled obviously...

Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and Commandments and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

Who said anything about worshiping on Sunday,??

The Gospel
is more powerful
in wooing us from our sin
than the Law is
in frightening us
from it.
–Frederick Dale Bruner

You can run from God
either by breaking His rules
or by keeping them.
The former says:
God doesn’t own me.
The latter says:
God owes me.
–Tim Keller

face2face said:

The command written in stone could never engrave the heart. That's why the New Commandment was required so believers could worship everyday in Spirit and Glory in the Lord Jesus Christ. One perishes over time the other is remembered eternally.
F2F

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Then why is every single one of the Ten Commandments repeated in the NT to Christians if they "perished"? It is because they are eternal. As I've often said, if the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians, please tell me which we are free to break.

Axehead said:

The Gospel
is more powerful
in wooing us from our sin
than the Law is
in frightening us
from it.
–Frederick Dale Bruner

You can run from God
either by breaking His rules
or by keeping them.
The former says:
God doesn’t own me.
The latter says:
God owes me.
–Tim Keller

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"If ye love Me, keep My commandments." Then aren't the "Ten Suggestions".

heretoeternity said:

Phoneman you are right on...you got it..the sunday crowd seem to think they can work their way into salvation by keeping a pagan day which is non Biblical..sunday..dedicated by the early roman church to the sungod which is the basis of their "worship"...the sunday crowd have difficulty distinguishing between God's law, the Ten commandments, which are the whole basis of our life if we are to follow Jesus and practice His love of God and love of neighbour (fellow man) and the law of MOSES which are the 613 circumcision, food, feast days, festivals, cleanliness etc laws which pointed to the cross, and ended at the cross, as per Acts 15, with the exception of 4 of them which the Apostles held onto...As Jesus said in Matthew 5..not one thing will be changed in the law (God's law) heaven and earth pass away and all is fulfilled..obviously referring to His return...heaven and earth are still here, so we have a way to go yet before all is fulfilled obviously...

Remember Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and Commandments and not the sun god/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

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What many do not get is that Jesus is not looking for lip service.

"This people draweth nigh unto Me with their lips and do honor Me with their mouths, but their hearts are from Me." "In VAIN do they worship Me, keeping for doctrines the commandments of men."

Here, we see that worship is not limited to the modern saccharin sentimentalism idea of waving one's hands during a rock-concert style church service. Jesus clearly speaks to the core idea of true worship and its counterfeit: "Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom you obey, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness."

mjrhealth said:

Thats the whole point, those who Love God will not do those things becasue they have the love of God within them, those without love need the commandments because they do not know love. Grace allowd us to be falliable humans relgion requiers us to clean the outside and leave the inside filty. Its all about how the pharsees appeared on teh outside but Christ only cares of teh inside.

Religion is an abomination, keeps men in bondage and slavery to man made rules and ideaologies.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.


In all His Love

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Good, we agree that if we love God and our neighbor, we will keep the Ten Commandments. And those who refuse to heed the Holy Spirit's pleadings to turn from breaking them are devoid of that love. "He that hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

It should be plain on the nose of yours and my face that that only those who love have eternal life (Jesus, the Source of that love) abiding in them, and those who claim to love God and their neighbors, but freely break the Ten Commandments while expecting Jesus' blood to cover that demonstrate that their hearts are devoid of eternal life.

UppsalaDragby said:

It is not a matter of "replacing" commandments at all. It is whether or not we are born again and follow the Spirit of God, and the very fact that you still thinking in terms of lists of commandments shows that you do not understand the Gospel at all. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us and communicate the living commandments that God gives us. And you are also ignoring the fact that scripture tells us that the sabbath commandment was simply a shadow. If you love God, then obey him and come out of the shadows!

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I fully understand the Gospel, which is not the false version which redefines what it means to "love" others. It is a distorted, fragmented version.

• The True Gospel has Jesus as both Savior Who covers our sin AND our Lord to be obeyed.

• The True Gospel does not redefine "love" to include committing sin - it says the opposite: "He that hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him," a clear reference to the 6th Commandment.

• The True Gospel is not a covering for the highest form of blasphemy which is claiming that God's love will cover the sin from which I refuse to turn and repent. That is a false covering of our own devising, and "he that covereth his sin shall not prosper, but whosoever confesseth AND forsaketh his sin shall have mercy."

The difference is that we can accept the fact that we are not perfect and so need Christ, one day when Christ perfects us there will be no sin till that day I will live on His grace. As for the law still not mine, it was a covenant with Israel just as was circumcision.

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

But I am sure you will never admit to having any sin.

But you see I am no better than them, for I know what I was and what I am in Christ.

In all His Love