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Phoneman777

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mjrhealth said:
The problem is no one believes God because they made the bible God!
No, the problem is that professing Christians have rejected the Bible and made their own flawed human reasoning their god - a textbook description of the highest order of idolatry.
 

Phoneman777

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"The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29) does not prove OSAS:

All Christians agree that the "calling" of God is irrevocable, meaning that "God's invitation to come unto Him will never be withdrawn."

So why do OSAS Christians insist that the word "gifts" in the very same text demands that we go beyond the idea of an invitation and add to Scripture by saying it means "salvation in the hands of a Christian of which he can never be deprived"? This is inconsistency at it's worst.

Rather, the text simply means, "God's invitation that we come unto Him and receive the gift of salvation will never be revoked".

Christians should stop twisting this text in a feeble attempt to establish OSAS, which is the idea that dead faith can obtain only that which can be obtained by living faith: Eternal Life.
 

ATP

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Phoneman777 said:
Eternal redemption for WHO?
Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Heb 9:12 KJV Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:12 GWT He used his own blood, not the blood of goats and bulls, for the sacrifice. He went into the most holy place and offered this sacrifice once and for all to free us forever.

Heb 9:12 AKJ Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:12 WBT Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood; he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:12 WNT and once for all entered the Holy place, taking with Him not the blood of goats and calves, but His own blood, and thus procuring eternal redemption for us.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - having obtained eternal redemption; for us, from sin, Satan, the law, and death, to which his people were in bondage, and which he obtained by paying a ransom price for them; which was not corruptible things, as silver and gold but his precious, blood: in the original text it is, "having found eternal redemption"; there seems to be an allusion to Job 33:24. This was what was sought for long ago by the, Old Testament saints, who were wishing, waiting, and longing for this salvation; it is a thing very precious and difficult to find; it is to be had nowhere but in Christ, and when found in him, is matter of great joy to sensible sinners; God found it in him, and found him to be a proper person to effect it; and Christ has found it by being the author of it: this is called an eternal redemption, because it extends to the saints in all ages; backwards and forwards; it includes eternal life and happiness; and such as are sharers in it shall never perish, but shall be saved with an everlasting salvation; it is so called in opposition to the carnal expiations of the high priests, and in distinction from temporal redemptions, deliverances, and salvations. Remarkable is the paraphrase of Jonathan ben Uzziel on Genesis 49:18.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary - eternal—The entrance of our Redeemer, once for all, into the heavenly holiest place, secures eternal redemption to us; whereas the Jewish high priest's entrance was repeated year by year, and the effect temporary and partial, "On redemption," compare Mt 20:28; Eph 1:7; Col 1:14; 1Ti 2:5; Tit 2:14; 1Pe 1:19.

Phoneman777 said:
"They are loved" is the reason why God will not revoke His offer on the table which is a "call" to us that we come to Him and the "gifts" that He holds out to us to receive by faith.
You're adding to scripture once again. It doesn't say they are loved is the reason why God will not revoke etc etc....

It says, "they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable."

We can be confident Phoneman that God who began a good work in us will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. When is that day brother?

Rom 11:28-29 NIV As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Phil 1:3-6 NIV I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
 

ATP

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Phoneman777 said:
Christians should stop twisting this text in a feeble attempt to establish OSAS, which is the idea that dead faith can obtain only that which can be obtained by living faith: Eternal Life.
Well, let's take a look at what scripture says about eternal life. The Word of God says once I believe I hath eternal life. What are we believing in sir? I think I've asked you this question like five times without answer. Do you know Jesus Christ. Do you have a relationship with Him Phoneman..John 17:3 NIV, 1 John 5:20 NIV. Salvation is a gift of God that results in eternal life Rom 6:23 NIV................

John 3:14-16 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 5:39-43 NIV You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41 "I do not accept praise from men, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 10:28-30 NIV I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

John 17:1-3 NIV After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Rom 6:22-23 NIV But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

2 Thess 2:16-17 NIV May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17 encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Tit 1:1-3 NIV Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, 3and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

Tit 3:7 NIV so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Heb 9:15 NIV For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

1 John 5:11-12 NIV And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

1 John 5:20 NIV We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
 
B

brakelite

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ATP, mhealth, you drove away one of the most eloquent and insightful posters I have seen on any board for a long time. I pray that one day you will come to realize the folly of ignoring Barrd who gave to you good counsel and wise understanding of scripture, as Phoneman continues to do. You are both quite deluded, and have already succumbed to those seducing spirits spoken of earlier. I do not believe either of you are Catholic, therefore you don't rely on the magisterium to interpret the word for you. But neither are you truly Protestant, for you have not fully accepted the truth of the Protestant hermeneutic, sola scriptura. You reject scripture that doesn't agree with your position, you ignore those verses that contradict your belief, and wrench others out of context to justify your stubborness. Your Savior is returning soon. You have only a short time to repent and accept God's full counsel and accept the Bible and the Bible only (not your OSAS lie) as the basis of your faith and doctrine. Methinks it is time for you to seriously spend some time praying. Reach out to God for His Truth, and be willing to shed all ...that is ALL...man-made interpretations and permutations.
Sincerely in God's love..B
 

ATP

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brakelite said:
ATP, mhealth, you drove away one of the most eloquent and insightful posters I have seen on any board for a long time. I pray that one day you will come to realize the folly of ignoring Barrd who gave to you good counsel and wise understanding of scripture, as Phoneman continues to do. You are both quite deluded, and have already succumbed to those seducing spirits spoken of earlier. I do not believe either of you are Catholic, therefore you don't rely on the magisterium to interpret the word for you. But neither are you truly Protestant, for you have not fully accepted the truth of the Protestant hermeneutic, sola scriptura. You reject scripture that doesn't agree with your position, you ignore those verses that contradict your belief, and wrench others out of context to justify your stubborness. Your Savior is returning soon. You have only a short time to repent and accept God's full counsel and accept the Bible and the Bible only (not your OSAS lie) as the basis of your faith and doctrine. Methinks it is time for you to seriously spend some time praying. Reach out to God for His Truth, and be willing to shed all ...that is ALL...man-made interpretations and permutations.
Sincerely in God's love..B
Hi brakelite. Thank you for response. Love will always triumph over religion. Once you believe you have eternal life. Sincerely in God's love..ATP.
 

ATP

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1 Pet 1:21 NIV Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

1 Pet 1:23 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
 

ATP

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1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
 

ATP

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1 Pet 3:18 NIV For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
 

ATP

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I did a study on 1 Cor 6:9-10 NIV. My conclusion is that those passages are referring to pagans, or some would call them nonbelievers who deny the deity of Christ. Let's connect the dots together, as we can see that believers are only justified once in 1 Cor 6:11 NIV. Let's explore.....

1. pagans 1 Pet 4:3 NIV
2. debauchery 1 Pet 4:3 NIV, Gal 5:19 NIV
3. drunkenness 1 Pet 4:3 NIV, Gal 5:21 NIV
4. orgies 1 Pet 4:3 NIV, Gal 5:21 NIV
5. idolatry 1 Pet 4:3 NIV, 1 Cor 6:9 NIV, Gal 5:20 NIV, Rev 21:8 NIV, Rev 22:15 NIV
6. sexually immoral, immorality 1 Cor 6:9 NIV, Gal 5:19 NIV, 1 Tim 1:8-11 NIV, Jude 1:4 NIV, Jude 1:7 NIV, Rev 21:8 NIV, Rev 22:15 NIV
7. belong to Christ Gal 5:24 NIV
8. the name of Jesus Christ 1 Cor 6:11, 1 John 2:22 NIV, Jude 1:4 NIV
9. denies, denying, deny, Tit 1:15-16 NIV, 1 John 2:22 NIV, Jude 1:4 NIV
10. antichrist 1 John 2:22 NIV
11. condemnation Jude 1:4 NIV
12. did not believe, unbelieving Jude 1:5 NIV, Rev 21:8 NIV
13. punishment of eternal fire, the lake of fire, fiery lake of burning sulfur Jude 1:7 NIV, Rev 21:8 NIV

I want us to focus on these specific words. All these words describe nonbelievers that are not born again by any means. Are we connecting the dots here in 1-13...

1 Cor 6:9-11 NIV Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Gal 5:19-26 NIV The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

1 Tim 1:8-11 NIV We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Tit 1:15-16 NIV To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

1 Pet 4:3-4 NIV For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

1 John 2:22 NIV Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

Jude 1:7 NIV In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Rev 21:8 NIV But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Rev 22:14-15 NIV “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

- ATP
 

mjrhealth

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Brakelite
ATP, mhealth, you drove away one of the most eloquent and insightful posters
I couldnt drive her anywhere I dont6 own a car, she left on her own accord. And yes she has much truth but that doesnt make it all the truth. The problem is she is trying to convert me, She cant, Jesus did that years ago,. What did Jesus say to Saul about kicking against the Goads.Waht is it written about " I have you in the pslam of my hand and no man can take to away"

. I do not believe either of you are Catholic,
Was born and raised a catholic, mum still is, it is hard for Jesus to chnage ones ways. But i was wasged of that stain around 1980,81, than that religiuos one about 12 to 15 years ago, what was it that Bard wrote about returning to ones vomit, not going back there.


My problem is I "Believe God", something christians seem to have a problem with.

You know for Abrahanm it was counted to him for Righteousness, and He didn teven have the Torah.

In all His Love
 
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brakelite

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"You know for Abraham it was counted to him for Righteousness, and He didn't even have the Torah."

Genesis 26:1 ¶ And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
 

ATP

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brakelite said:
"You know for Abraham it was counted to him for Righteousness, and He didn't even have the Torah."

Genesis 26:1 ¶ And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Righteousness in the OT is not the righteousness in the NT. Polar opposite..

Isa 64:6 NIV All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Matt 6:1 NIV “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Matt 23:25-26 NIV “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Matt 23:27-28 NIV “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Luke 18:19 NIV "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Rom 3:9-20 NIV What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." 13 "Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips." 14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Rom 3:21-31 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. 27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 4:3-11 NIV What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." 9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Rom 4:22-24 NIV This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Rom 5:17-21 NIV For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:16-20 NIV Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.

Rom 8:9-11 NIV You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Rom 9:30-33 NIV What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Rom 10:3-4 NIV Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

1 Cor 8:1 NIV Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.

Gal 2:21 NIV I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

Gal 3:6-7 NIV Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.

Phil 1:9-11 NIV And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.

Phil 3:8-11 NIV What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

2 Tim 1:9 NIV He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Tit 3:5 NIV he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
 

Phoneman777

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ATP, you are preaching rebellion to God with your OSAS doctrine and twisting Scripture to support it. No rebels will enter the kingdom so please give up this nonsensical idea of OSAS that dead faith can obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
 

ATP

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Phoneman777 said:
ATP, you are preaching rebellion to God with your OSAS doctrine and twisting Scripture to support it. No rebels will enter the kingdom so please give up this nonsensical idea of OSAS that dead faith can obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
It's not rebellion. It's a biblical fact. I've asked you multiple times to show me where God throws believers into the lake of fire. No answer yet.
 

mjrhealth

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No, the problem is that professing Christians have rejected the Bible and made their own flawed human reasoning their god - a textbook description of the highest order of idolatry.
No the problem is christians have rejected God, show me one christian that believes God or Jesus or the holy Spirit, im still looking. See the ybelieve the bible and when God speaks to them and He doesnt quiet agree with teh bible they will actually reject God, that makes teh bible and Idol before God. What did He say about 'I will have no other Gods before me"????
 

ATP

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1 John 1:1-4 NIV That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our joy complete.
 

ATP

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1 John 4:4 NIV You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
 

ATP

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1 John 4:10 NIV This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
 

ATP

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1 John 4:14 NIV And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
 
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