Sabbath-Keeping

Phoneman777 · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
The man wasn't justified. It is with your heart that you are justified.

I knew of one such man a few years ago? <_<

Phoneman, can you answer me this...

What's the difference between a believer doing those awful things and Hitler accepting salvation on his deathbed?

"The man wasn't justified." How in the world can you make such an astounding claim? Jeff told me in utmost sincerity that he reached out to God and God has promised that He would in no way turn anyone aside who does that, and yet you claim he wasn't justified? Friend, that is arrogance to the nth degree.

The difference is the OSAS first person is lost because it is not Jesus in Whom he believes, but his owned human reasoning that his dead faith can obtain that which only living faith can obtain: eternal life. However, a grace-saved HItler, the Lord willing, would get off that deathbed and live a life of obedience since his obedient Jesus now resides in his heart and lives out His obedient life through Mr. Adolph.

Phoneman777 · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
and before the resurrection.........

Dispensationalism is a lie of the Jesuits and John Nelson Darby, ATP. People in the OT were saved the exact same way people in the NT are saved: by grace, period.

No one was ever saved by their works and no one will ever make it to heaven with the dead faith of faith without works, especially those who cling to OSAS.

ATP · Sep 7, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
The difference is the OSAS first person is lost because it is not Jesus in Whom he believes, but his owned human reasoning

That's actually the opposite of what OSAS believes. We depend on the finished work of the cross which is not human reasoning.

Phoneman777 said:
People in the OT were saved the exact same way people in the NT are saved: by grace, period.

If everyone is saved the same way then why are we no longer sacrificing animals for sins.

Phoneman777 · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
We should start with love.

The only love OSAS believers are capable of is the love of selfish sinful indulgence, else they would turn from their slavish servitude to such sinful perversion and take hold of the freedom in Christ with which He so desperately wants to save them.

"Love is the fulfilling of the law", not defiantly breaking it and fiercely defending doing so, brother.

ATP · Sep 7, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
The only love OSAS believers are capable of is the love of selfish sinful indulgence, else they would turn form their slavish servitude to such sinful perversion and take hold of the freedom in Christ with which He so desperately wants to save them.

"Love is the fulfilling of the law", not defiantly breaking it and fiercely defending doing so, brother.

Where did I say it's ok to continue to sin? Nowhere.

Phoneman777 · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
That's actually the opposite of what OSAS believes. We depend on the finished work of the cross which is not human reasoning.

If everyone is saved the same way then why are we no longer sacrificing animals for sins.

No, you depend on the Cross to cover your dead faith, which the Bible calls "presumption".

Because, ATP, OT believers looked forward in faith to the Messiah Who was to come while we look backward in faith to the Messiah that came. Both OT and NT believers evidence their Living faith by works.

Phoneman777 · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
Where did I say it's ok to continue to sin? Nowhere.

Don't deny what you've said all along: that dead faith can obtain eternal life when the Bible is clear that only living faith can do that.

ATP · Sep 7, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
Don't deny what you've said all along: that dead faith can obtain eternal life when the Bible is clear that only living faith can do that.

The premise of your entire belief is that a born again believer can be thrown into the lake of fire, when in fact the lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV. And scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath. Your reasoning is not logical.

justaname · Sep 7, 2015

This thread has degenerated into a completely different topic...to continue this topic of "OSAS" please move to the thread with that title...

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18216-the-doctrine-of-osas/page-26#entry260229

For the topic of Sabbath-Keeping please remain in this thread...

Thank You for your cooperation!

In the love of Christ,
Justaname

Barrd · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
We should start with love.

John 13:34-35 NIV “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

John 15:12 NIV My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

John 15:17 NIV This is my command: Love each other.

Gal 5:6 NIV For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Gal 5:14 NIV For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

1 Tim 1:3-7 NIV As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 John 3:23 NIV And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

1 John 4:21 NIV And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

2 John 1:5-6 NIV And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

So, basically you see that Jesus gave a command, and as His disciple, we must obey it. Good.

Barrd · Sep 7, 2015

mjrhealth said:
No confusion, absoluely none. It is you lack of understanding of Love that has you all in this spot of bother, You should read Rom7, than go and read about the Law and whom God gave it to, than you should read about how Love fullfills all teh requirements of the Law because the law, teh 10 commandments could be kept by no man but Jesus. because He was perfect. You see the law even is this world was made to keep those who might think about doing evil from not doing so because there is a consequence, if you removed all teh laws from thsi world today, there would be many who would happily go about there businees withoud doing and bad thing, but being human ocaasionaly messing up. But like anythinhg if someone is gooing to do evil, no law on earth on in heaven will stop him. But Christ is Love, Christ commandemnt to us is love, why, simply, love doenst need teh law to not do evil since love is,.. well go and read about it in you bible. Than there are those who do not know love, they need the law, because without the law they have reason to sin, they need a threat of death hanging over them to not sin, where those who walk in love, like Christ can only love, you know the bit about " do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

And who is it by the way who goes about defaming me with words of evil. without evidence, than claims to hate sin so much, You know defamation in court can pay big money, but in this case it is simply lies and hate no more, Ceratinly not love.

In all His Love

I will believe that you are all about love when you start showing some.
Till then, it's just words.

Barrd · Sep 7, 2015

justaname said:
This thread has degenerated into a completely different topic...to continue this topic of "OSAS" please move to the thread with that title...

For the topic of Sabbath-Keeping please remain in this thread...

Thank You for your cooperation!

In the love of Christ,
Justaname

Oh, Justaname, I know you're right....
We lost it waay back there, when I said something about how those who love Christ will obey Him...or maybe it was Phoneman...anyway, it suddenly became about OSAS....

Barrd · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
The man wasn't justified. It is with your heart that you are justified.

I knew of one such man a few years ago? <_<

Phoneman, can you answer me this...

What's the difference between a believer doing those awful things and Hitler accepting salvation on his deathbed?

Did Hitler accept salvation on his deathbed? I don't remember ever reading anything about that. As far as i know, he disappeared...and no one ever found him again.
I seem to recall someone telling me that the probability was that he died somewhere in the South American jungle...

ATP · Sep 7, 2015

The Barrd said:
So, basically you see that Jesus gave a command, and as His disciple, we must obey it. Good.

Yes. We must obey if we want to receive crowns in heaven.

ATP · Sep 7, 2015

The Barrd said:
Did Hitler accept salvation on his deathbed? I don't remember ever reading anything about that. As far as i know, he disappeared...and no one ever found him again.
I seem to recall someone telling me that the probability was that he died somewhere in the South American jungle...

I'm using Hitler as an example. It could be any Joe Coffee who lived a nasty life.

Barrd · Sep 7, 2015

ATP said:
Yes. We must obey if we want to receive crowns in heaven.

If you have faith in Jesus, you will obey Him. If you won't obey Him, you do not truly have faith in Him.
If you do not truly have faith in Him, you are not going to see heaven.
It really is just that simple.

ATP · Sep 7, 2015

The Barrd said:
If you have faith in Jesus, you will obey Him. If you won't obey Him, you do not truly have faith in Him.

I agree. You will obey Him. Our Father is a jealous God.

The Barrd said:
IIf you do not truly have faith in Him, you are not going to see heaven.

Faith comes through believing...

Rom 3:21-22 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

2 Cor 4:13 NIV It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,

Gal 3:22 NIV But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

1 Pet 1:21 NIV Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

heretoeternity · Sep 8, 2015

Even satan and his demons BELIEVE in God/Jesus....James 2..and therefore are "believers".....Do they follow His commandments? Nope...Sounds familiar doesn't it!

Remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, and not the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

Barrd · Sep 8, 2015

ATP said:
I agree. You will obey Him. Our Father is a jealous God.

Faith comes through believing...

Rom 3:21-22 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

2 Cor 4:13 NIV It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,

Gal 3:22 NIV But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

1 Pet 1:21 NIV Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

Believing in Him in this context means a bit more than just knowing Who He is and what He did for you at Calvary.
It even means more than trusting Him. It means loving Him. If you love Him, you are going to obey Him. If you love Him, you will try to keep yourself from sin....and if...make that when...you fall into temptation and sin, you will repent.

I don't know about deathbed confessions, but then, I'm pretty sure God would know a truly contrite heart from someone just trying to get some last minute fire insurance...

He is, after all, omniscient.

Barrd · Sep 8, 2015

ATP said:
I agree. You will obey Him. Our Father is a jealous God.

Faith comes through believing...

Rom 3:21-22 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

2 Cor 4:13 NIV It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,

Gal 3:22 NIV But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

1 Pet 1:21 NIV Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

Believing in Him in this context means a bit more than just knowing Who He is and what He did for you at Calvary.
It even means more than trusting Him. It means loving Him. If you love Him, you are going to obey Him. If you love Him, you will try to keep yourself from sin....and if...make that when...you fall into temptation and sin, you will repent.

I don't know about deathbed confessions, but then, I'm pretty sure God would know a truly contrite heart from someone just trying to get some last minute fire insurance...

He is, after all, omniscient.

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