Sabbath-Keeping

Phoneman777 · Sep 11, 2015

ATP said:
You mean the good news of the Gospel is sending christians to hell if they sin?

ATP, you insist that when Jesus said "the love ("AGAPE") of many would grow cold", these "many" are not saved.

QUESTION: How is it possible for unsaved people to experience "AGAPE" love, which everyone knows refers to "Divine Love" when the only people that are capable of practicing AGAPE love are the saved?

Will you go so far as to argue that fleshly, selfish, self-centered, self-serving, self-seeking unsaved people are capable of practicing "AGAPE" love? Face the facts, ATP, they once accepted salvation and received from God and imparted to others AGAPE love, but after some time they turned back to the cold world and will be lost, but "he that endureth unto the end, the same shall be saved." Stop trying to use dead faith to obtain that which only living faith can, bro.

Phoneman777 · Sep 11, 2015

The Barrd said:
Why are you sending me to a magazine? Isn't the Bible enough?
Somehow, I very much doubt that the crowd listening to Jesus had access to this article.

How about we just concentrate on the Sermon on the Mount for a bit? Here is Jesus' heart, laid open for all to see. Here is the walk we are to walk if we would have true fellowship with Jesus.

The article you sent me to seems to have the same problem we just talked about. The writer seems to think that mocking and belittling one another is a minor issue with God. "God certainly wouldn't send someone to hell just for that! " As if Jesus doesn't know what He's talking about...

But do you not know how devastating words can be?

Yes, I believe that God could and would send someone to hell for his or her careless, hurtful words.

TB, I would really love to meet your husband in heaven and ask him what it meant to have such a strong Christian woman to support him through the time you both had together. I honestly cannot understand why spineless, lilly-livered, cowardly Christian men are satisfied with doctrines that emphasize human weakness rather than the strength that even the weakest of the weak may obtain through the simple act of exercising the will.

"...not My will but Thy will be done."

ATP · Sep 11, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
QUESTION: How is it possible for unsaved people to experience "AGAPE" love, which everyone knows refers to "Divine Love" when the only people that are capable of practicing AGAPE love are the saved?

Phoneman777 said:
I honestly cannot understand why spineless, lilly-livered, cowardly Christian men are......

Are you sure you're not the one waxing cold? I will pray for you. So what about the destruction of Jerusalem..Ez 40-48, Matt 24:15 NIV, Psalm 83 NIV, Ez 38-39 NIV.

Could it be that we are saved from the destruction of wars, and Matt 24:13 NIV has nothing to do with losing personal salvation..http://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/24-13.htm

sózó: to save: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

[4982 (sṓzō) is the root of: 4990 /sōtḗr ("Savior"), 4991 /sōtēría ("salvation") and the adjectival form, 4992 /sōtḗrion (what is "saved/rescued from destruction and brought into divine safety").]

Endurance to the end of life is in every case the condition of salvation, in the full meaning of the word. But the context rather leads us to see in the “end” the close of the period of which our Lord speaks, i.e., the destruction of Jerusalem; and so the words “shall be saved” at least include deliverance from the doom of those who were involved in that destruction.

The disciples had asked concerning the times, When these things should be? Christ gave them no answer to that; but they had also asked, What shall be the sign? This question he answers fully. The prophecy first respects events near at hand, the destruction of Jerusalem,

He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved - The word "end," here, has by some been thought to mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or the end of the Jewish economy, and the meaning has been supposed to be "he that perseveres in bearing these persecutions to the end of the wars shall be safe.

Mt 24:1-51. Christ's Prophecy of the Destruction of Jerusalem, and Warnings Suggested by It to Prepare for His Second Coming. ( = Mr 13:1-37; Lu 21:5-36).
For the exposition, see on [1355]Mr 13:1-37.

the same shall be saved; with a temporal salvation, when Jerusalem, and the unbelieving inhabitants of it shall be destroyed: for those that believed in Christ, many of them, through persecution, were obliged to remove from thence; and others, by a voice from heaven, were bid to go out of it, as they did; and removed to Pella, a village a little beyond Jordan (u), and so were preserved from the general calamity; and also with an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will.

εἰς τέλος] not perpetuo (Fritzsche), which, as the connection shows (Matthew 24:6), is too indefinite; but: unto the end, till the last, until the troubles will have come to an end, which, as appears from the context (σωθήσεται), will, in point of fact, be coincident with the second advent. Comp. Matthew 24:30-31; Matthew 10:22. The context forbids such interpretations as: unto death (Elsner, Kuinoel, Ebrard), until the destruction of Jerusalem (Krebs, Rosenmüller, R. Hofmann),

Verse 13. - He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matthew 10:22). Here is a note of consolation amid the refrain of woe. Patience and perseverance shall be crowned at the last. "The end" means primarily the destruction of Jerusalem, and the salvation promised is safety in that day of peril. It is believed that no Christians perished in the siege or after it (see ver. 16).

- ATP

Phoneman777 · Sep 11, 2015

ATP said:
Are you sure you're not the one waxing cold? I will pray for you. So what about the destruction of Jerusalem..Ez 40-48, Matt 24:15 NIV, Psalm 83 NIV, Ez 38-39 NIV.

Could it be that we are saved from the destruction of wars, and Matt 24:13 NIV has nothing to do with losing personal salvation..http://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/24-13.htm

sózó: to save: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

[4982 (sṓzō) is the root of: 4990 /sōtḗr ("Savior"), 4991 /sōtēría ("salvation") and the adjectival form, 4992 /sōtḗrion (what is "saved/rescued from destruction and brought into divine safety").]

Endurance to the end of life is in every case the condition of salvation, in the full meaning of the word. But the context rather leads us to see in the “end” the close of the period of which our Lord speaks, i.e., the destruction of Jerusalem; and so the words “shall be saved” at least include deliverance from the doom of those who were involved in that destruction.

The disciples had asked concerning the times, When these things should be? Christ gave them no answer to that; but they had also asked, What shall be the sign? This question he answers fully. The prophecy first respects events near at hand, the destruction of Jerusalem,

He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved - The word "end," here, has by some been thought to mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or the end of the Jewish economy, and the meaning has been supposed to be "he that perseveres in bearing these persecutions to the end of the wars shall be safe.

Mt 24:1-51. Christ's Prophecy of the Destruction of Jerusalem, and Warnings Suggested by It to Prepare for His Second Coming. ( = Mr 13:1-37; Lu 21:5-36).
For the exposition, see on [1355]Mr 13:1-37.

the same shall be saved; with a temporal salvation, when Jerusalem, and the unbelieving inhabitants of it shall be destroyed: for those that believed in Christ, many of them, through persecution, were obliged to remove from thence; and others, by a voice from heaven, were bid to go out of it, as they did; and removed to Pella, a village a little beyond Jordan (u), and so were preserved from the general calamity; and also with an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will.

εἰς τέλος] not perpetuo (Fritzsche), which, as the connection shows (Matthew 24:6), is too indefinite; but: unto the end, till the last, until the troubles will have come to an end, which, as appears from the context (σωθήσεται), will, in point of fact, be coincident with the second advent. Comp. Matthew 24:30-31; Matthew 10:22. The context forbids such interpretations as: unto death (Elsner, Kuinoel, Ebrard), until the destruction of Jerusalem (Krebs, Rosenmüller, R. Hofmann),

Verse 13. - He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matthew 10:22). Here is a note of consolation amid the refrain of woe. Patience and perseverance shall be crowned at the last. "The end" means primarily the destruction of Jerusalem, and the salvation promised is safety in that day of peril. It is believed that no Christians perished in the siege or after it (see ver. 16).

- ATP

As expected, you fully ignored my point concerning "agape". ATP, cherry picking verses one thinks proves his position while stubbornly refusing to confront others which seriously challenge one's position is not sound Biblical exegesis - it is self manipulation and delusion.

Do you believe that unsaved people can both receive from God and impart to others AGAPE love, or is AGAPE love reserved for the saints alone?

ATP, you are suffering from "Cognitive Dissonance" much like those who accept the false idea that jet fuel, which burns at a maximum of 1500 degrees, can melt steel girders which require over 2,500 degrees of heat - because confronting the prospect that 9-11 was an inside job is too painful for people to accept who believe that the U.S. is the last, great hope for freedom in the world rather than what the Bible identifies it to be: the Second Beast of Revelation 13 which will soon force the entire world to bow down and worship the First Beast - the Antichrist in Rome. Yes, Biblical truth is sometimes painful, but God always gives us truth to lead us out of error, but we must choose to be led out of it, not die in it.

brakelite · Sep 12, 2015

Phoneman, hello my bro, a pleasure to see you still contending and defending for the truth. And a delight to see such an ardent and eloquent ally in Barrd, who I don't remenber being around last time I regularly visited here. God bless you both especially on this day of our Lord.

ATP · Sep 12, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
As expected, you fully ignored my point concerning "agape". ATP, cherry picking verses one thinks proves his position while stubbornly refusing to confront others which seriously challenge one's position is not sound Biblical exegesis - it is self manipulation and delusion.

Talk about cherry picking. You have no idea how to answer Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30 and Heb 9:12 so you avoid them.

You believe that Jesus died partially for our sins and that is false...John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:3 NIV, 2 Cor 5:14-15 NIV, Gal 1:3-4 NIV, Gal 2:19-20 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 8:12 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV, 1 John 4:14 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV

You believe a christian can be thrown into the lake of fire, that is false also. The lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

You believe a christian can be found then go back to being lost, that is false. Scripture clearly says that nonbelievers are the lost because they haven't accepted the free gift of salvation yet...Matt 10:5-7 NIV, Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 15:4-7 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

You believe the seal in the NT can be broken and that christians in the OT are saved the same way as NT christians, that is false...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

You believe we can be thrown out of the family after we've been adopted into it. We have been adopted into an inheritance by the seal of God which makes us heirs of Christ while belonging to Christ through His blood. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children Rom 8:16 NIV, and we are shielded by God's power...1 Peter 1:5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV, Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV, Psalm 94:14 NIV, Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 3:25 NIV, 1 Cor 11:25 NIV, Eph 1:7-8 NIV, Eph 2:13 NIV, Col 1:20 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 10:19-22 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Heb 13:20-21 NIV, 1 Pet 1:18-19 NIV, 1 John 5:6-8 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

You believe your own righteousness keeps you saved rather than trusting in the finished work of the cross..Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 4:2-6 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

You believe your works and your ten commandments and self-righteousness keep you saved, but in the real world the grace of God is what keeps you saved...John 17:26 NIV, 1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9-10 NIV, 2 Tim 2:13 NIV, Heb 6:16-19 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 13:5 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Jude 1:24-25 NIV

Delusion isn't the half of what you're going through brother.

Matt 24 is about the end of the world and the destruction of Jerusalem. The believer that endures to the end is saved by the destruction of war. God is not contradictory. God is not a liar. Jesus Christ either died for all sins or He did not. Are you calling God a half god and a liar Phoneman?

Phoneman777 said:
ATP, you are suffering from "Cognitive Dissonance" much like those who accept the false idea that jet fuel, which burns at a maximum of 1500 degrees, can melt steel girders which require over 2,500 degrees of heat - because confronting the prospect that 9-11 was an inside job is too painful for people to accept who believe that the U.S. is the last, great hope for freedom in the world rather than what the Bible identifies it to be: the Second Beast of Revelation 13 which will soon force the entire world to bow down and worship the First Beast - the Antichrist in Rome. Yes, Biblical truth is sometimes painful, but God always gives us truth to lead us out of error, but we must choose to be led out of it, not die in it.

9-11 reflects Isa 9:10 NIV which is now bringing judgment to America.

Do you believe the four blood moons are signs from aliens or the devil, or do you believe they are signs from God?

ATP · Sep 12, 2015

brakelite said:
Phoneman, hello my bro, a pleasure to see you still contending and defending for the truth.

John 8:44 NIV You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

heretoeternity · Sep 12, 2015

Those who say they know Him and keep NOT His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them and His commandments are NOT grievous..1st John

Remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin!

ATP · Sep 12, 2015

Rom 11:28-29 NIV As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

The "election" are born again believers. The jews were not born again in Rom 11. They were still living in unbelief. What does "enter his rest" mean here?..............

Rom 11:20 NIV Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Rom 11:23 NIV And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Heb 3:16-19 NIV Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Heb 4:3 ESV For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest,’” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

heretoeternity said:
Those who say they know Him and keep NOT His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them and His commandments are NOT grievous..1st John

Remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin!

Very good hereto. Love is the key.

John 13:34-35 NIV “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

John 15:12 NIV My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

John 15:17 NIV This is my command: Love each other.

Gal 5:6 NIV For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Gal 5:14 NIV For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

1 Tim 1:3-7 NIV As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 John 3:23 NIV And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

1 John 4:21 NIV And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

2 John 1:5-6 NIV And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Barrd · Sep 12, 2015

ATP said:
Talk about cherry picking. You have no idea how to answer Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30 and Heb 9:12 so you avoid them.

You believe that Jesus died partially for our sins and that is false...John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:3 NIV, 2 Cor 5:14-15 NIV, Gal 1:3-4 NIV, Gal 2:19-20 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 8:12 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV, 1 John 4:14 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV

You believe a christian can be thrown into the lake of fire, that is false also. The lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

You believe a christian can be found then go back to being lost, that is false. Scripture clearly says that nonbelievers are the lost because they haven't accepted the free gift of salvation yet...Matt 10:5-7 NIV, Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 15:4-7 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

You believe the seal in the NT can be broken and that christians in the OT are saved the same way as NT christians, that is false...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

You believe we can be thrown out of the family after we've been adopted into it. We have been adopted into an inheritance by the seal of God which makes us heirs of Christ while belonging to Christ through His blood. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children Rom 8:16 NIV, and we are shielded by God's power...1 Peter 1:5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV, Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV, Psalm 94:14 NIV, Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 3:25 NIV, 1 Cor 11:25 NIV, Eph 1:7-8 NIV, Eph 2:13 NIV, Col 1:20 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 10:19-22 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Heb 13:20-21 NIV, 1 Pet 1:18-19 NIV, 1 John 5:6-8 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

You believe your own righteousness keeps you saved rather than trusting in the finished work of the cross..Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 4:2-6 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

You believe your works and your ten commandments and self-righteousness keep you saved, but in the real world the grace of God is what keeps you saved...John 17:26 NIV, 1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9-10 NIV, 2 Tim 2:13 NIV, Heb 6:16-19 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 13:5 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Jude 1:24-25 NIV

Delusion isn't the half of what you're going through brother.

Matt 24 is about the end of the world and the destruction of Jerusalem. The believer that endures to the end is saved by the destruction of war. God is not contradictory. God is not a liar. Jesus Christ either died for all sins or He did not. Are you calling God a half god and a liar Phoneman?

9-11 reflects Isa 9:10 NIV which is now bringing judgment to America.

Do you believe the four blood moons are signs from aliens or the devil, or do you believe they are signs from God?

Honestly, ATP....we've been over almost all of those verses, and have refuted the OSAS doctrine multiple times already.
You called me out for saying that you were deluded, and I apologized....insulting and belittling one another is not the way disciples of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ ought to behave...and when we see someone consistently behaving contrary to Jesus, it is almost certain that that one is not a true Disciple.
Just a casual glance through this list of verses shows me that you have pretty much ignored the words of Christ, choosing, instead, to twist the epistles of the Apostle Paul, even after we went over the fact that he is a Jewish lawyer, and writes like a Jewish lawyer. Close examination shows that, not only did Paul NOT preach OSAS...but that he, himself, carefully kept the law....yes, even including the dreaded fourth commandment.
You have gotten yourself tangled up in a false teaching, my dear man....and a particularly dangerous one at that. Do you not know that you have a very dangerous adversary? He is "raging up and down like a lion, seeking whom he may devour"....and, ATP, unless you can get this straightened out, I very much fear that you will end up being a snack for him...

Barrd · Sep 12, 2015

ATP said:
John 8:44 NIV You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Again with the unspeakable rude and arrogant behavior.
You want to talk about Jesus' great commandment...that we love one another....but you don't seem to think that this commandment applies to you! Just who do you think you are, anyhow?

Have you already forgotten what we talked about, just a few hours ago?

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Yes, ATP...God will send someone to hell for mocking and belittling others.
That's the way they treated Jesus....remember?

Barrd · Sep 12, 2015

The Sermon on the Mount, ATP.
If you truly want to know Jesus, and follow Him, the Sermon on the Mount is a great place to begin.
Matthew 5-7.

Learn something, ATP....at the very least, learn some manners.

Phoneman777 · Sep 12, 2015

ATP said:
Talk about cherry picking. You have no idea how to answer Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30 and Heb 9:12 so you avoid them.

You believe that Jesus died partially for our sins and that is false...John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:3 NIV, 2 Cor 5:14-15 NIV, Gal 1:3-4 NIV, Gal 2:19-20 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 8:12 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV, 1 John 4:14 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV

You believe a christian can be thrown into the lake of fire, that is false also. The lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

You believe a christian can be found then go back to being lost, that is false. Scripture clearly says that nonbelievers are the lost because they haven't accepted the free gift of salvation yet...Matt 10:5-7 NIV, Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 15:4-7 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

You believe the seal in the NT can be broken and that christians in the OT are saved the same way as NT christians, that is false...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

You believe we can be thrown out of the family after we've been adopted into it. We have been adopted into an inheritance by the seal of God which makes us heirs of Christ while belonging to Christ through His blood. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children Rom 8:16 NIV, and we are shielded by God's power...1 Peter 1:5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV, Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV, Psalm 94:14 NIV, Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 3:25 NIV, 1 Cor 11:25 NIV, Eph 1:7-8 NIV, Eph 2:13 NIV, Col 1:20 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 10:19-22 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Heb 13:20-21 NIV, 1 Pet 1:18-19 NIV, 1 John 5:6-8 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

You believe your own righteousness keeps you saved rather than trusting in the finished work of the cross..Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 4:2-6 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

You believe your works and your ten commandments and self-righteousness keep you saved, but in the real world the grace of God is what keeps you saved...John 17:26 NIV, 1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9-10 NIV, 2 Tim 2:13 NIV, Heb 6:16-19 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 13:5 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Jude 1:24-25 NIV

Delusion isn't the half of what you're going through brother.

Matt 24 is about the end of the world and the destruction of Jerusalem. The believer that endures to the end is saved by the destruction of war. God is not contradictory. God is not a liar. Jesus Christ either died for all sins or He did not. Are you calling God a half god and a liar Phoneman?

9-11 reflects Isa 9:10 NIV which is now bringing judgment to America.

Do you believe the four blood moons are signs from aliens or the devil, or do you believe they are signs from God?

Does "ATP" mean "Allover The Place"? With all your bouncing around from the ideas of false prophets and commentators to cherry picked verses and back again rather that focusing on the verse you are confronted with, perhaps "ADD" more appropriate than "ATP".

Now, take a deep breath and try to focus on just these two verses for a moment:

"And because iniquity shall abound, the ("AGAPE") of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved."

Are sinners capable of possessing AGAPE love or not?

If you are not able to produce a verse that proves they can, then you must accept that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV are saints who will be lost because they allowed iniquity to kill their AGAPE, but thankfully anyone who endures the same iniquitous influence and - by placing his will on the side of God's will - refuses to allow it to kill his AGAPE shall be saved. I love the sensibility of Scripture, praise God!

Phoneman777 · Sep 12, 2015

brakelite said:
Phoneman, hello my bro, a pleasure to see you still contending and defending for the truth. And a delight to see such an ardent and eloquent ally in Barrd, who I don't remenber being around last time I regularly visited here. God bless you both especially on this day of our Lord.

Thanks, bro. The Lord will always have a few of His own who refuse to bow the knee to the pathetically weak, lilly-livered doctrines of Baal. I just can't understand why people today who sit in church are so preoccupied with human weakness when the saints of old willingly went to the jaws of lions or the fires of the fagot for what these pew warmers would consider inconsequential issues. If only these saints of old had been "enlightened" they would have realized that sprinkling a little incense on a false idol or bowing to Caesar as "god" is no big deal in the eyes of God like is claimed by these "enlightened ones" of today LOL.

Phoneman777 · Sep 12, 2015

Phoneman777 · Sep 12, 2015

ATP said:
Are you sure you're not the one waxing cold? I will pray for you. So what about the destruction of Jerusalem..Ez 40-48, Matt 24:15 NIV, Psalm 83 NIV, Ez 38-39 NIV.

Could it be that we are saved from the destruction of wars, and Matt 24:13 NIV has nothing to do with losing personal salvation..http://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/24-13.htm

sózó: to save: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

[4982 (sṓzō) is the root of: 4990 /sōtḗr ("Savior"), 4991 /sōtēría ("salvation") and the adjectival form, 4992 /sōtḗrion (what is "saved/rescued from destruction and brought into divine safety").]

Endurance to the end of life is in every case the condition of salvation, in the full meaning of the word. But the context rather leads us to see in the “end” the close of the period of which our Lord speaks, i.e., the destruction of Jerusalem; and so the words “shall be saved” at least include deliverance from the doom of those who were involved in that destruction.

The disciples had asked concerning the times, When these things should be? Christ gave them no answer to that; but they had also asked, What shall be the sign? This question he answers fully. The prophecy first respects events near at hand, the destruction of Jerusalem,

He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved - The word "end," here, has by some been thought to mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or the end of the Jewish economy, and the meaning has been supposed to be "he that perseveres in bearing these persecutions to the end of the wars shall be safe.

Mt 24:1-51. Christ's Prophecy of the Destruction of Jerusalem, and Warnings Suggested by It to Prepare for His Second Coming. ( = Mr 13:1-37; Lu 21:5-36).
For the exposition, see on [1355]Mr 13:1-37.

the same shall be saved; with a temporal salvation, when Jerusalem, and the unbelieving inhabitants of it shall be destroyed: for those that believed in Christ, many of them, through persecution, were obliged to remove from thence; and others, by a voice from heaven, were bid to go out of it, as they did; and removed to Pella, a village a little beyond Jordan (u), and so were preserved from the general calamity; and also with an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will.

εἰς τέλος] not perpetuo (Fritzsche), which, as the connection shows (Matthew 24:6), is too indefinite; but: unto the end, till the last, until the troubles will have come to an end, which, as appears from the context (σωθήσεται), will, in point of fact, be coincident with the second advent. Comp. Matthew 24:30-31; Matthew 10:22. The context forbids such interpretations as: unto death (Elsner, Kuinoel, Ebrard), until the destruction of Jerusalem (Krebs, Rosenmüller, R. Hofmann),

Verse 13. - He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matthew 10:22). Here is a note of consolation amid the refrain of woe. Patience and perseverance shall be crowned at the last. "The end" means primarily the destruction of Jerusalem, and the salvation promised is safety in that day of peril. It is believed that no Christians perished in the siege or after it (see ver. 16).

- ATP

BTW, if you can't keep your posts down to a few sentences, no one is going to read them. "Less is more".

Phoneman777 · Sep 12, 2015

ATP said:
Talk about cherry picking. You have no idea how to answer Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30 and Heb 9:12 so you avoid them.

You believe that Jesus died partially for our sins and that is false...John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:3 NIV, 2 Cor 5:14-15 NIV, Gal 1:3-4 NIV, Gal 2:19-20 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 8:12 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV, 1 John 4:14 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV

You believe a christian can be thrown into the lake of fire, that is false also. The lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

You believe a christian can be found then go back to being lost, that is false. Scripture clearly says that nonbelievers are the lost because they haven't accepted the free gift of salvation yet...Matt 10:5-7 NIV, Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 15:4-7 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

You believe the seal in the NT can be broken and that christians in the OT are saved the same way as NT christians, that is false...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

You believe we can be thrown out of the family after we've been adopted into it. We have been adopted into an inheritance by the seal of God which makes us heirs of Christ while belonging to Christ through His blood. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children Rom 8:16 NIV, and we are shielded by God's power...1 Peter 1:5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV, Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV, Psalm 94:14 NIV, Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 3:25 NIV, 1 Cor 11:25 NIV, Eph 1:7-8 NIV, Eph 2:13 NIV, Col 1:20 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 10:19-22 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Heb 13:20-21 NIV, 1 Pet 1:18-19 NIV, 1 John 5:6-8 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

You believe your own righteousness keeps you saved rather than trusting in the finished work of the cross..Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 4:2-6 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

You believe your works and your ten commandments and self-righteousness keep you saved, but in the real world the grace of God is what keeps you saved...John 17:26 NIV, 1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9-10 NIV, 2 Tim 2:13 NIV, Heb 6:16-19 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 13:5 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Jude 1:24-25 NIV

Delusion isn't the half of what you're going through brother.

Matt 24 is about the end of the world and the destruction of Jerusalem. The believer that endures to the end is saved by the destruction of war. God is not contradictory. God is not a liar. Jesus Christ either died for all sins or He did not. Are you calling God a half god and a liar Phoneman?

9-11 reflects Isa 9:10 NIV which is now bringing judgment to America.

Do you believe the four blood moons are signs from aliens or the devil, or do you believe they are signs from God?

ATP, that sounds like a good thread idea. Maybe you can start one on Blood Moons.

Phoneman777 · Sep 12, 2015

ATP said:
John 8:44 NIV You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Wow, that was unnecessary, especially since he advocates obedience and you advocate rebellion - which is what got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. SMH

ATP · Sep 12, 2015

The Barrd said:
Yes, ATP...God will send someone to hell for mocking and belittling others.

Doesn't say much for the blood of Jesus. Jesus died for all sins Barrd, past present and future. There is more to that scripture, but you refuse to learn...John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:3 NIV, 2 Cor 5:14-15 NIV, Gal 1:3-4 NIV, Gal 2:19-20 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 8:12 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV, 1 John 4:14 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV

Phoneman777 said:
Are sinners capable of possessing AGAPE love or not?

Matt 24:12 agape love is the love of believers quenching the spirit. This is in reference to 1 Thess 5:19 NIV. Quenching the spirit and losing salvation or polar opposite. Our example, once again, is Christ. He was never lacking in fervor, never tiring when an opportunity to serve His Father presented itself. Christ saw that there would be a decline in our fervor in times of evil: "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:12,13).

Naturally, the fire of our spirit wanes at times, blown cold by distractions of the world. The fuel for our spiritual fervor is the Spirit of God. As the fire of our spirit wanes, we should ask the Spirit of God to rekindle the flames in order to renew our fervor. Even in times when our fire burns bright, we should ask the Spirit to keep it burning strong.

Strong's #5594: psucho (pronounced psoo'-kho)

a primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from 4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of 109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):--wax cold.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

suchō

1) to breathe, blow, cool by blowing
2) to be made or grow cool or cold
3) metaphorically of waning love

5594 psýxō (originally, "to breathe out," cf. J. Thayer) – properly, "to blow, refresh with cool air" (Zod, Dict); (figuratively) "to breathe cool by blowing, to grow cold, 'spiritual energy blighted or chilled by a malign or poisonous wind' " (M. Vincent), used only in Mt 24:12.

Phoneman777 said:
BTW, if you can't keep your posts down to a few sentences, no one is going to read them. "Less is more".

Well, if you actually read it you will learn that believers are saved from the destruction of Jerusalem. Is this too advanced for your false theology.

Phoneman777 said:
ATP, that sounds like a good thread idea. Maybe you can start one on Blood Moons.

You didn't answer my question. Are the blood moons from aliens, the devil or God. Oh how easy it is to answer it. Will Phoneman answer it, we shall see.

Barrd · Sep 12, 2015

ATP said:
Doesn't say much for the blood of Jesus. Jesus died for all sins Barrd, past present and future. There is more to that scripture, but you refuse to learn...John 1:29 NIV, Acts 10:43 NIV, Acts 13:38-39 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:3 NIV, 2 Cor 5:14-15 NIV, Gal 1:3-4 NIV, Gal 2:19-20 NIV, Col 1:13-14 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 8:12 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 2:12 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV, 1 John 4:14 NIV, Rev 1:5-6 NIV

Not one of those verses addresses the question, ATP, and I think you know that.
All of them are about how Jesus died for our sins....something we are all aware of.

Now, once again, hear the words of Jesus Christ:

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Yes, I know...it isn't Paul.
But this Guy just might be worth listening to....

And please, ATP....stop with the rude posts.
It is possible to disagree without being nasty about it.
Do try....I'm sure you can do it...

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