What about 1 Corinthians 14:2? He that speaketh in tongues speaketh not unto men, But to God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries( divine secrets).
Should we pray in tongue?
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Pariah my brother I know you fear and love God, and I also know you will not be offended with what I'm about to ask of you, next time you kneel before God, go with open heart and ask him if all me and Tallman have written are true and maybe it is part of your dream, maybe God will show you something else too. Again this is in the spirit of love in Jesus I ask you, not to offend you in any way. I'm sure if you ask it with a simple heart as a child, without your mind and thoughts mingling in this prayer, God will answer like in the dream He has shown you.As for us, please don't have any concerns at all. I cannot possibly doubt what I feel every time the Spirit fills me! Not you not anyone can take this from me, it is part of my life! Ask God, He will give you!God bless you and always lead you in His path.
Hi Jonous,
I am not offended, but still concern, because of this statement.As for us, please don't have any concerns at all. I cannot possibly doubt what I feel every time the Spirit fills me! Not you not anyone can take this from me, it is part of my life! Ask God, He will give you!
I do not need to ask because I am complete in Christ when I came to Jesus as My Saviour. Ephesians 1:12-15Matthew 9:17 says I shall not be a leaky vessel that requires continual filling, and the promise from Jesus is in John 6:35, that I shall not hunger nor thirst for more of God when I come to Him thus Matthew 11:28-30 reveals the rest in Jesus.You are called to test the spirits. You have been informed of tongues in the world that is gibberish. It has been prophesied that many shall depart from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils so that is why there are no invitations to the Holy Spirit. Indeed, to be found ready and abiding in Him, believers are called to strive ye through the straight gate: Jesus... still. Thus I really believe you should discern the tongues you have... because many shall desire to enter in, but shall not be able to.But, if you do not care to heed this warning in love, I leave it to the Lord. He is the Good Shepherd after all.
I am not offended, but still concern, because of this statement.As for us, please don't have any concerns at all. I cannot possibly doubt what I feel every time the Spirit fills me! Not you not anyone can take this from me, it is part of my life! Ask God, He will give you!
I do not need to ask because I am complete in Christ when I came to Jesus as My Saviour. Ephesians 1:12-15Matthew 9:17 says I shall not be a leaky vessel that requires continual filling, and the promise from Jesus is in John 6:35, that I shall not hunger nor thirst for more of God when I come to Him thus Matthew 11:28-30 reveals the rest in Jesus.You are called to test the spirits. You have been informed of tongues in the world that is gibberish. It has been prophesied that many shall depart from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils so that is why there are no invitations to the Holy Spirit. Indeed, to be found ready and abiding in Him, believers are called to strive ye through the straight gate: Jesus... still. Thus I really believe you should discern the tongues you have... because many shall desire to enter in, but shall not be able to.But, if you do not care to heed this warning in love, I leave it to the Lord. He is the Good Shepherd after all.
Hi setfree,
What about 1 Corinthians 14:2? He that speaketh in tongues speaketh not unto men, But to God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries( divine secrets).
You have to take it all in context, setfree. If you read why and how the manifestations are given in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, then you would know that tongues were never meant as a stand alone gift as it was to serve as a sign for the unbeliever as they understand it in their native langauge as tongues in the church is to have an interpretor with instructions in the proper use.. like have two or three speak in tongues and let one interpret.. let two or three prophesy and let one judge.So having tongues of the world that is gibberish... no way would God have that in the church. I mean.. think about it. If we can find tongues that are gibberish in Hinduism and voodooism, what happens to born again believers that come out of that? How can they bear witness that they are no longer in it if the tongues that were gibberish is the same as christians in the churches? How ould they feel that once being called out of it, they find it again but with christian labels on it?God gave instructions about how tongues were to be used in the church as well as using it as a sign for the unbelievers out on the road as they undeerstood it in their native tongues. For the Lord to speak to us.. it is by us hearing the Word and understanding Him. So why mimick the rudiment of the world with its tongues that has no interpretation, especially when He calls us to be apart from the world? It would be very difficult for born again believers that come out of Hinduism or voodooism. In fact, it would be hard to discern those not of faith if they just came in to do their thing. Thus it is why there is a need for interpretation.We do not need the gift of tongues to pray to the Lord. We can rest in Jesus for He is with us always as He searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit because the Holy Spirit being in us, fulfills the role of the Comforter as Jesus fulfills the role of the only Mediator between God and man... according to the will of God. Thus you can rest easy that the Lord already knows what you are going to pray for, but pray in your language anyway... so that when He answers prayers.. you can give thanks.
What about 1 Corinthians 14:2? He that speaketh in tongues speaketh not unto men, But to God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries( divine secrets).
You have to take it all in context, setfree. If you read why and how the manifestations are given in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, then you would know that tongues were never meant as a stand alone gift as it was to serve as a sign for the unbeliever as they understand it in their native langauge as tongues in the church is to have an interpretor with instructions in the proper use.. like have two or three speak in tongues and let one interpret.. let two or three prophesy and let one judge.So having tongues of the world that is gibberish... no way would God have that in the church. I mean.. think about it. If we can find tongues that are gibberish in Hinduism and voodooism, what happens to born again believers that come out of that? How can they bear witness that they are no longer in it if the tongues that were gibberish is the same as christians in the churches? How ould they feel that once being called out of it, they find it again but with christian labels on it?God gave instructions about how tongues were to be used in the church as well as using it as a sign for the unbelievers out on the road as they undeerstood it in their native tongues. For the Lord to speak to us.. it is by us hearing the Word and understanding Him. So why mimick the rudiment of the world with its tongues that has no interpretation, especially when He calls us to be apart from the world? It would be very difficult for born again believers that come out of Hinduism or voodooism. In fact, it would be hard to discern those not of faith if they just came in to do their thing. Thus it is why there is a need for interpretation.We do not need the gift of tongues to pray to the Lord. We can rest in Jesus for He is with us always as He searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit because the Holy Spirit being in us, fulfills the role of the Comforter as Jesus fulfills the role of the only Mediator between God and man... according to the will of God. Thus you can rest easy that the Lord already knows what you are going to pray for, but pray in your language anyway... so that when He answers prayers.. you can give thanks.
I'm starting to get a feeling that they go by feeling and not faith. ALTHOUGH i feel a strong good sensation, it could be a misleading spirit. Wednesday night was the last day I'm going to a pentecostal church of that sort. LO LO LEE LE LA LA LO LO LO, you're gonna tell me that but can't even translate. I was in the mood of the Spirit though and I felt I was interpreting. The boy was crying and he said Lord will you hear us, will you hear our Prayer and cried to take the pain of this world. Then he spoke in tongues and I never could understand, this was the second time. And I came under a strong trance and I yelled, THUS SAITH THE LORD, I HAVE HEARD YOUR CRIES, MY CHILDREN YOU CRY AND I HEAR YOU! CALL UPON MY NAME AND I WILL HEAR YOU! I honestly can say that no matter how much I tried to hold my tongue, I couldn't!
(kriss;25315)
JodyWell you know what Im going to say
So I'll just leave it at good to see you
Your right Kriss!Hi to you too!I hope you have an extremly blessed weekend!
JodyWell you know what Im going to say
So I'll just leave it at good to see youYour right Kriss!Hi to you too!I hope you have an extremly blessed weekend!
(n2thelight;25386)
JodycourYou are getting this mixed up,what Paul was saying is that he was able to speak in many different languagesNow lets look at 1 Corint 14:2I Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.""Mysteries" as given in the Greek text is "divine secrets"; so why would he be speaking in divine secrets? Note also that the word "unknown" was added by the translators for it just wasn't there in the early manuscripts. Another word "tongue" also come in here and in Strong's Greek dictionary it is # 1100. "Glossa, gloce-sah'; a language, (specifically, one naturally acquired).""Tongue" as given in this chapter is one language that you have naturally acquired by learning. So the tongue that Paul is talking about is a language that is not your natural tongue, it is one that you have acquired outside your home. Remember the great commission that Jesus gave; to take the gospel to the world. If Christians could only speak English, then the other peoples of the world simply would not understand what the gospel was all about. When we try to study the Bible for the truths within its pages, it is a must to have some reference to the original languages of Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek for that is the tongue or language that God's Word was written in. Translators have taken those foreign languages and tried to relate their meanings in English so that the common man could read the Word of God within his own home. This is why when we study the Word for ourselves is it important to have the Strong's numbered concordance and Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek numbered dictionaries right along with it so that we can understand exactly what God intended us to know. An example of this is above in the word, "tongues"; "glossa" in the Greek, and in the true translation "languages" in the English. So one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is to be able to learn another tongue or language than you were brought up with, so that you can teach someone who is not of your language. There are many neighborhoods that have their common language other than English right here in America. There are Spanish neighborhoods, Chinese, and so on, and if you were to go into those people and present the gospel in English, many of them simply would not understand what you are saying. The reason that it is saying that if you do go out and speak in a place where everyone is of another language then only God would understand; is that only God and the Spirit of God understands all languages. He caused the confusion into the languages at the tower of Babel, and when the true tongue of the Holy Spirit is spoken, it will be as it was at Pentecost. This tongue shall be spoken again when the Elect are brought up to give account of themselves, as recorded in Mark 13:11. When the Holy Spirit's tongue goes forth, every person around the world will listen to it and understand it at the same time and in the very dialect of their neighborhood. This is what is called the "cloven tongue". The "cloven tongue" needs no interpreter for it comes directly from the Holy Spirit. Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."The time that this shall happen is in our generation, just prior to the coming of the Lord. We are not to spend one moment thinking of this time, or in fear of what we should say, for at that moment the Holy Spirit will place within our minds the things that we should say. When the Holy Spirit speaks it will be through our mouths, but His Words. Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.""Cloven tongues" are many different languages, and the time it is spoken is when one filled with the Holy Spirit speaks. There will be no confusion to anyone as to what is said, for everyone that hears will understand in his or her own language. The Chinese, Spanish and English listeners could standing be side by side, and each would hear the words spoken in their native language. That is the cloven tongue of the Holy Spirit. This is something entirely different than what Paul is speaking of here in I Corinthians 14. When the "cloven tongue" goes out in all directions it is understood with clarity no matter what language you are in. However here in I Corinthians 14 Paul was referring to one that was speaking in a language whereby the listeners did not understand what was being said to them. Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost [Spirit], and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."This was the time of the feast of Pentecost, and the Jews came from all over the world to be in Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost. Though they all probably spoke Hebrew, their native tongue was the tongue of the place where they resided in, and had their everyday conversations in. The other tongues are the languages where there can be no misunderstanding what is being said, for it is the tongue of their family and friends back home. There is nothing unknown about it to anyone, and when you hear that tongue, it is the evidence of the Holy Spirit within you, who are Spirit filled. Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."Even a child can understand that when the Spirit of God spoke here that every person, all the people understood. No matter where they were from in the world, they heard the words with clarity. This is what dumfounded them, for it had never happened before. This is why Peter reminded these devout Jews of what the prophet Joel spoke of back in the Old Testament writings. It was a sample of what would come about in the last generation just before the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. It will be the time when the sons and daughters are going to be delivered up before the false messiah, Satan the Antichrist.Acts 2:7 "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?"Acts 2:8 "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? "These Jews not only heard in their on language but in the very dialect of the neighborhood that they were born. This is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. It is this tongue that will come upon those that are delivered up to fulfill those prophesies of Mark 13:11. So Paul in I Corinthians 14:2 is addressing something entirely different than what was spoken of in Acts 2. He is not addressing the speaking in the "cloven tongue", but he is saying that if you go out and try to speak and teach without the gift of languages, the ability to speak and understand the grammar of another language, that all you would be doing is causing confusion. Those foreigners listening to you would not even have enough knowledge to say "Amen", and know when you were finished.
You are wrong here, Paul was not saying that he spoke in other languages of the world. You are adding things into this scripture that are not there to fit what you believe!
JodycourYou are getting this mixed up,what Paul was saying is that he was able to speak in many different languagesNow lets look at 1 Corint 14:2I Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.""Mysteries" as given in the Greek text is "divine secrets"; so why would he be speaking in divine secrets? Note also that the word "unknown" was added by the translators for it just wasn't there in the early manuscripts. Another word "tongue" also come in here and in Strong's Greek dictionary it is # 1100. "Glossa, gloce-sah'; a language, (specifically, one naturally acquired).""Tongue" as given in this chapter is one language that you have naturally acquired by learning. So the tongue that Paul is talking about is a language that is not your natural tongue, it is one that you have acquired outside your home. Remember the great commission that Jesus gave; to take the gospel to the world. If Christians could only speak English, then the other peoples of the world simply would not understand what the gospel was all about. When we try to study the Bible for the truths within its pages, it is a must to have some reference to the original languages of Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek for that is the tongue or language that God's Word was written in. Translators have taken those foreign languages and tried to relate their meanings in English so that the common man could read the Word of God within his own home. This is why when we study the Word for ourselves is it important to have the Strong's numbered concordance and Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek numbered dictionaries right along with it so that we can understand exactly what God intended us to know. An example of this is above in the word, "tongues"; "glossa" in the Greek, and in the true translation "languages" in the English. So one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is to be able to learn another tongue or language than you were brought up with, so that you can teach someone who is not of your language. There are many neighborhoods that have their common language other than English right here in America. There are Spanish neighborhoods, Chinese, and so on, and if you were to go into those people and present the gospel in English, many of them simply would not understand what you are saying. The reason that it is saying that if you do go out and speak in a place where everyone is of another language then only God would understand; is that only God and the Spirit of God understands all languages. He caused the confusion into the languages at the tower of Babel, and when the true tongue of the Holy Spirit is spoken, it will be as it was at Pentecost. This tongue shall be spoken again when the Elect are brought up to give account of themselves, as recorded in Mark 13:11. When the Holy Spirit's tongue goes forth, every person around the world will listen to it and understand it at the same time and in the very dialect of their neighborhood. This is what is called the "cloven tongue". The "cloven tongue" needs no interpreter for it comes directly from the Holy Spirit. Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."The time that this shall happen is in our generation, just prior to the coming of the Lord. We are not to spend one moment thinking of this time, or in fear of what we should say, for at that moment the Holy Spirit will place within our minds the things that we should say. When the Holy Spirit speaks it will be through our mouths, but His Words. Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.""Cloven tongues" are many different languages, and the time it is spoken is when one filled with the Holy Spirit speaks. There will be no confusion to anyone as to what is said, for everyone that hears will understand in his or her own language. The Chinese, Spanish and English listeners could standing be side by side, and each would hear the words spoken in their native language. That is the cloven tongue of the Holy Spirit. This is something entirely different than what Paul is speaking of here in I Corinthians 14. When the "cloven tongue" goes out in all directions it is understood with clarity no matter what language you are in. However here in I Corinthians 14 Paul was referring to one that was speaking in a language whereby the listeners did not understand what was being said to them. Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost [Spirit], and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."This was the time of the feast of Pentecost, and the Jews came from all over the world to be in Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost. Though they all probably spoke Hebrew, their native tongue was the tongue of the place where they resided in, and had their everyday conversations in. The other tongues are the languages where there can be no misunderstanding what is being said, for it is the tongue of their family and friends back home. There is nothing unknown about it to anyone, and when you hear that tongue, it is the evidence of the Holy Spirit within you, who are Spirit filled. Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."Even a child can understand that when the Spirit of God spoke here that every person, all the people understood. No matter where they were from in the world, they heard the words with clarity. This is what dumfounded them, for it had never happened before. This is why Peter reminded these devout Jews of what the prophet Joel spoke of back in the Old Testament writings. It was a sample of what would come about in the last generation just before the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. It will be the time when the sons and daughters are going to be delivered up before the false messiah, Satan the Antichrist.Acts 2:7 "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?"Acts 2:8 "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? "These Jews not only heard in their on language but in the very dialect of the neighborhood that they were born. This is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. It is this tongue that will come upon those that are delivered up to fulfill those prophesies of Mark 13:11. So Paul in I Corinthians 14:2 is addressing something entirely different than what was spoken of in Acts 2. He is not addressing the speaking in the "cloven tongue", but he is saying that if you go out and try to speak and teach without the gift of languages, the ability to speak and understand the grammar of another language, that all you would be doing is causing confusion. Those foreigners listening to you would not even have enough knowledge to say "Amen", and know when you were finished.
You are wrong here, Paul was not saying that he spoke in other languages of the world. You are adding things into this scripture that are not there to fit what you believe!
(Pariah;25417)
Hi Jodycour,You did not discern Tallman's last statement.That is after the rudiment of the world as it is a new age method.Is it not written to seek spiritual gifts? It is not written to seek the Spirit nor are there any invitations to the Spirit. The faith declares that He is in you as promised for coming to Jesus. Everything Tallman has said is apart from the faith, including his tongues. That is the grand delusion in beliving this lie in going after another spirit other than we have already received. This is the proof that we are living in perilous times now. This is the event that takes place before His appearing as the son of perdition event is before His coming.2 Thessalonians 2: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.Ephesians 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,1 Timothy 4: 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Then the Lord deals with this event by His coming...8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:Thus the perilous times is now before the event of the son of perdition.1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;So with the Bible handy and tongues were given with interpretation to profit the body withal, what need for tongues when it is the Word that edifies us in the knowledge of Him? Tongues would be unfruitful without an interpretor as well as a prayer language by itself for we lack the understanding, albeit yet we are still edified only in the assembly for what purpose when they serve as a sign for te unbeliever and not for the believer in suggesting one has received the infilling of the "Spirit".1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.... 24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. Since prophesying is the gift to be sought over tongues, which is as kriss explained that it is preaching as I agree on that point, I would think that the Word understood is what tongues were sent for... for the unbelievers.
Sorry Parriah,But you are the one that is deceived, and missing out on one of the most wonderful gifts that God has given us speaking in unknown tongues!Yes he did tell us in scriptures to seek spiritual gifts!
Hi Jodycour,You did not discern Tallman's last statement.That is after the rudiment of the world as it is a new age method.Is it not written to seek spiritual gifts? It is not written to seek the Spirit nor are there any invitations to the Spirit. The faith declares that He is in you as promised for coming to Jesus. Everything Tallman has said is apart from the faith, including his tongues. That is the grand delusion in beliving this lie in going after another spirit other than we have already received. This is the proof that we are living in perilous times now. This is the event that takes place before His appearing as the son of perdition event is before His coming.2 Thessalonians 2: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.Ephesians 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,1 Timothy 4: 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Then the Lord deals with this event by His coming...8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:Thus the perilous times is now before the event of the son of perdition.1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;So with the Bible handy and tongues were given with interpretation to profit the body withal, what need for tongues when it is the Word that edifies us in the knowledge of Him? Tongues would be unfruitful without an interpretor as well as a prayer language by itself for we lack the understanding, albeit yet we are still edified only in the assembly for what purpose when they serve as a sign for te unbeliever and not for the believer in suggesting one has received the infilling of the "Spirit".1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.... 24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. Since prophesying is the gift to be sought over tongues, which is as kriss explained that it is preaching as I agree on that point, I would think that the Word understood is what tongues were sent for... for the unbelievers.
Sorry Parriah,But you are the one that is deceived, and missing out on one of the most wonderful gifts that God has given us speaking in unknown tongues!Yes he did tell us in scriptures to seek spiritual gifts!
(TallMan;25428)
I don't think you understand what "praying in the Spirit" is.If you understand what you are praying it's NOT praying in the Holy Spirit.1Co:14:14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.:15: What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.:16: Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
Excellent point here Tallman!
I don't think you understand what "praying in the Spirit" is.If you understand what you are praying it's NOT praying in the Holy Spirit.1Co:14:14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.:15: What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.:16: Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
Excellent point here Tallman!
(setfree;25539)
What about 1 Corinthians 14:2? He that speaketh in tongues speaketh not unto men, But to God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries( divine secrets).
Amen to that setfree!
What about 1 Corinthians 14:2? He that speaketh in tongues speaketh not unto men, But to God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries( divine secrets).
Amen to that setfree!
(Pariah;25678)
Hi setfree,You have to take it all in context, setfree. If you read why and how the manifestations are given in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, then you would know that tongues were never meant as a stand alone gift as it was to serve as a sign for the unbeliever as they understand it in their native langauge as tongues in the church is to have an interpretor with instructions in the proper use.. like have two or three speak in tongues and let one interpret.. let two or three prophesy and let one judge.So having tongues of the world that is gibberish... no way would God have that in the church. I mean.. think about it. If we can find tongues that are gibberish in Hinduism and voodooism, what happens to born again believers that come out of that? How can they bear witness that they are no longer in it if the tongues that were gibberish is the same as christians in the churches? How ould they feel that once being called out of it, they find it again but with christian labels on it?God gave instructions about how tongues were to be used in the church as well as using it as a sign for the unbelievers out on the road as they undeerstood it in their native tongues. For the Lord to speak to us.. it is by us hearing the Word and understanding Him. So why mimick the rudiment of the world with its tongues that has no interpretation, especially when He calls us to be apart from the world? It would be very difficult for born again believers that come out of Hinduism or voodooism. In fact, it would be hard to discern those not of faith if they just came in to do their thing. Thus it is why there is a need for interpretation.We do not need the gift of tongues to pray to the Lord. We can rest in Jesus for He is with us always as He searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit because the Holy Spirit being in us, fulfills the role of the Comforter as Jesus fulfills the role of the only Mediator between God and man... according to the will of God. Thus you can rest easy that the Lord already knows what you are going to pray for, but pray in your language anyway... so that when He answers prayers.. you can give thanks.
There You go Pariah, adding to the scriptures again!One day you will be filled with the HolyGhost and you will be speaking in tongues and you will feel very foolish for ever arguing about this issue!You are truly missing out!
Hi setfree,You have to take it all in context, setfree. If you read why and how the manifestations are given in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, then you would know that tongues were never meant as a stand alone gift as it was to serve as a sign for the unbeliever as they understand it in their native langauge as tongues in the church is to have an interpretor with instructions in the proper use.. like have two or three speak in tongues and let one interpret.. let two or three prophesy and let one judge.So having tongues of the world that is gibberish... no way would God have that in the church. I mean.. think about it. If we can find tongues that are gibberish in Hinduism and voodooism, what happens to born again believers that come out of that? How can they bear witness that they are no longer in it if the tongues that were gibberish is the same as christians in the churches? How ould they feel that once being called out of it, they find it again but with christian labels on it?God gave instructions about how tongues were to be used in the church as well as using it as a sign for the unbelievers out on the road as they undeerstood it in their native tongues. For the Lord to speak to us.. it is by us hearing the Word and understanding Him. So why mimick the rudiment of the world with its tongues that has no interpretation, especially when He calls us to be apart from the world? It would be very difficult for born again believers that come out of Hinduism or voodooism. In fact, it would be hard to discern those not of faith if they just came in to do their thing. Thus it is why there is a need for interpretation.We do not need the gift of tongues to pray to the Lord. We can rest in Jesus for He is with us always as He searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit because the Holy Spirit being in us, fulfills the role of the Comforter as Jesus fulfills the role of the only Mediator between God and man... according to the will of God. Thus you can rest easy that the Lord already knows what you are going to pray for, but pray in your language anyway... so that when He answers prayers.. you can give thanks.
There You go Pariah, adding to the scriptures again!One day you will be filled with the HolyGhost and you will be speaking in tongues and you will feel very foolish for ever arguing about this issue!You are truly missing out!
(thesuperjag;25856)
And the "speaking in tongue" is NOT required to get the Holy Ghost.Jag
Oh but it's not a matter of requirement is it? It is a sign that you received it. Else I can come up to you and say, "Hey I have received the Holy Spirit" and then you might say, "maybe, but how can I really tell?", or even completely doubt it by saying "I don't believe you!". This is why Paul says"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:"Another example, Cornelius."While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."How do you think they understood Cornelius and the rest with him received? Isn't it because of some sort of sign? Of course and here it is"For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter".Like in this occasion"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this , they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:1Praise God.
And the "speaking in tongue" is NOT required to get the Holy Ghost.Jag
Oh but it's not a matter of requirement is it? It is a sign that you received it. Else I can come up to you and say, "Hey I have received the Holy Spirit" and then you might say, "maybe, but how can I really tell?", or even completely doubt it by saying "I don't believe you!". This is why Paul says"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:"Another example, Cornelius."While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."How do you think they understood Cornelius and the rest with him received? Isn't it because of some sort of sign? Of course and here it is"For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter".Like in this occasion"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this , they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:1Praise God.
1st Corinthians 1:22, 23For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;If you think that's the most solid evidence of the Gift of the Holy Ghost, you are totally foolish. Moses had the Holy Ghost, evidence was him and his Commission by the Holy Spirit. Just as all the prophets were given the Holy Ghost, is there ever a mention of them speaking tongues as evidence? The Evidence is the Life, you know how I know I have the Holy GHOST? Because prior to my baptism both in immersion and Fire, I could never comprehend anything the bible said! I didn't even know who Christ or the Godhead was! Then I prayed and asked the Father in the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, to give me revelation and to commission my life. He did that, and I can grasps bits of the bible, WHICH I COULD NEVER DO BEFORE.Sometimes even in fellowship with elders, not to brag, but when I speak I am very unaware, but they say when I speak it's with wisdom and authority. Though to me it doesn't seem that way. God knows who has the Holy Ghost, not you or me. But for a fact, those that do, can truly discern those that claim it. But I will humble myself like Yeshua HaMashiach and not judge.
(Unorthodox Christian;25933)
1st Corinthians 1:22, 23Moses had the Holy Ghost, evidence was him and his Commission by the Holy Spirit. Just as all the prophets were given the Holy Ghost, is there ever a mention of them speaking tongues as evidence? The Evidence is the Life, you know how I know I have the Holy GHOST? Because prior to my baptism both in immersion and Fire, I could never comprehend anything the bible said! I didn't even know who Christ or the Godhead was! Then I prayed and asked the Father in the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, to give me revelation and to commission my life. He did that, and I can grasps bits of the bible, WHICH I COULD NEVER DO BEFORE.Sometimes even in fellowship with elders, not to brag, but when I speak I am very unaware, but they say when I speak it's with wisdom and authority. Though to me it doesn't seem that way. God knows who has the Holy Ghost, not you or me. But for a fact, those that do, can truly discern those that claim it. But I will humble myself like Yeshua HaMashiach and not judge.
Let's not confuse O.T. with N.T. here, people in the O.T. were not baptised in the Holy Spirit because Jesus had not send the Comforter yet. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:16"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." John 16:7Don't confuse things, yes God used people in the O.T. and they performed great miracles through His power, but they never had the Holy Spirit permanently dwell in them. This is a privilege for the people of the N.T., thanks to Jesus' sacrifice! About the rest of your post, I'm afraid it isn't that easy, no elder can assure you that you have ben baptised in the Holy Spirit. Of course you can see and understand God's word clrealy since (I can assume) you have been reborn. Every person that is reborn can see things clrearly because he/she has a new heart in Jesus and may very well speak with "wisdom and authority" because he/she is a child of God. But the Holy Spirit takes you many steps further.Praise the Lord!
1st Corinthians 1:22, 23Moses had the Holy Ghost, evidence was him and his Commission by the Holy Spirit. Just as all the prophets were given the Holy Ghost, is there ever a mention of them speaking tongues as evidence? The Evidence is the Life, you know how I know I have the Holy GHOST? Because prior to my baptism both in immersion and Fire, I could never comprehend anything the bible said! I didn't even know who Christ or the Godhead was! Then I prayed and asked the Father in the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, to give me revelation and to commission my life. He did that, and I can grasps bits of the bible, WHICH I COULD NEVER DO BEFORE.Sometimes even in fellowship with elders, not to brag, but when I speak I am very unaware, but they say when I speak it's with wisdom and authority. Though to me it doesn't seem that way. God knows who has the Holy Ghost, not you or me. But for a fact, those that do, can truly discern those that claim it. But I will humble myself like Yeshua HaMashiach and not judge.
Let's not confuse O.T. with N.T. here, people in the O.T. were not baptised in the Holy Spirit because Jesus had not send the Comforter yet. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:16"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." John 16:7Don't confuse things, yes God used people in the O.T. and they performed great miracles through His power, but they never had the Holy Spirit permanently dwell in them. This is a privilege for the people of the N.T., thanks to Jesus' sacrifice! About the rest of your post, I'm afraid it isn't that easy, no elder can assure you that you have ben baptised in the Holy Spirit. Of course you can see and understand God's word clrealy since (I can assume) you have been reborn. Every person that is reborn can see things clrearly because he/she has a new heart in Jesus and may very well speak with "wisdom and authority" because he/she is a child of God. But the Holy Spirit takes you many steps further.Praise the Lord!
You obvoiusly left out the Other Evidence of the Holy Ghost being in You.• the word of wisdom*• the word of knowledge*• faith*• gifts of healing• the working of miracles• prophecy• discerning of Spirits• divers kinds of tongues• the interpretation of tonguesWISDOM, KNOWLEDGE AND FAITH! 2nd Corinthians 5:7 We walk by faith, not by sight! Wisdom, Faith, and Knowledge are not things our eyes can see, but do we revoke them and say they aren't evidence? Foolishness!1 Corinthians 1:7-8 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS IN US TIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION! THOSE THAT SEEK THE HOLY GHOST FOR HIS GIFTS are stumbling upon themselves! The Evidence of the Holy Ghost isn't the Gift he gives, IT'S HIMSELF THAT IS THE GIFT!!
Romans 11:29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance!gifts CAN COME EVEN WITHOUT THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST! DON'T PULL OUT SCRIPTURE AND BITS OF IT TO SATISFY YOURSELF! PULL OUT THE WHOLE BIBLE! HALLELUYAH! SO NEW FOLKS, YOU DON'T GOTTA SPEAK TONGUES TO PROVE YOU GOT THE HOLY GHOST! THIS ALONE SAYS YOU CAN SPEAK TONGUES WITHOUT REPENTENCE! OH MY!!!!! REVELATION BROTHERS!!!!!!!!
Unorthodox Christian,The signs the Jews were seeking were to prove he was the Messiah. Those that speak in tongue already know that He is the Son of God. We are just enjoying the benifits of being a christian.
Jon-Marc
New Member
1 Cor. 14:4 says, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself." So, speaking in an unknown tongue does nothing but edify the speaker. He/she is glorifying him/herself.The disciples spoke in known languages at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them. The people heard the gospel in their own languages. They did NOT hear gibberish that no one understood. Tongues in the Bible are not UNKNOWN tongues but KNOWN languages. However, they are unknown tongues when no one understands. I only understand English, and everything else is an unknown tongue to me. I hear people all the time speaking what is to me an unknown tongue. Most of the time it's Spanish. I know what it is; I just don't understand it.Paul said in 14:19 that he would rather speak 5 words that are understood than 10,000 words that no one understood. It doesn't matter what language we speak to God, for He understands them all. I'm not sure what speaking some gibberish like the woman I heard in a Pentecostal church I visited does. She kept repeating what sounded like, "Ah, ditty" over and over and over. Others there were doing their own thing with "speaking in tongues", jumping pews, and rolling on the floor, and I guess she didn't want to feel left out. I just stood there speechless and stunned and wishing I could escape that madness. I doubt they would have noticed if I had left.
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