Fast food fellowship

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sjmopas

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I was raised in a congregation that had around 200 members .By the time I was 16 that congregation had split over 5 times. As I've grown up I have learned that there were things going on in that fellowship that are some of the most horendous things I've heard in my life. Yet I always felt lead to stay there, to be faithful to sharing the love and grace of God to those who were bystanders in the midst of the chaos.

When I moved to another state, in my early 20's, I joined a fellowship that was, in many ways, the extreme opposite of the congregation I was raised in.

The church I grew up in was very diverse in the nationalities represented, I like to say it was like a bag of skittles, we had folks from nearlly every continent and major nationality. We had a contemporary praise service, had lots of people who would preach, were never short of musicians and singers, had multiple teachers for every class, and were huge on getting together during the week for encouragement and fellowship.

The new fellowship I joined sang mostly hymns and songs from the 60's and 70's. They had a pianist, and one singer. I was the only hispanic, everyone else was anglo. There was very little cconection outside of the weekly corporate service. The fellowship was made up of about 40 people.

Despite all those differences I never felt like I was missing out, I didn't feel the need to go to another fellowship.

Now, as a pastor of a an entirely different congregation, I have run into situations where people from other congregations show up to our building asking about beginning to fellowship with us. I always make it a point to call the pastor or leaders of the church they used to attend to let them know that one of their members showed up at our service. More often then not, the reasons for breaking fellowship are really lame, at least in my opinion. I have actually heard some people say things like, "I just couldn't worship God there, the music was too slow". I told that person that our praise of God should never be limited to whether there is slow or fast, contemporary or traditional, hip hop, rap, or rock music as a background. Our praise of God should only be about who God is, and what He has done. I also told them that they really needed to go back and make a better effort at dealing with that issue with the pastor or leaders of thier previous fellowship.

Some people choose churches based on the comforts of the building, or the convineinces of childcare, small group events, and other such things.

Before choosing or leaving a fellowship I think there are important questions to ask, here are a few:

1. Where has God placed me, and why has He placed me here?

2. Is there anything about the fellowship I currently attend or am looking into attending that I disagree with; have I or will I take steps to resolve those things or will I bail when faced with the pressure to be transparent about how I feel.

3. Will I bring negitive influences to a new fellowship; will I be a hinderence to the corporate worship setting?

4. How will I grow as a disciple; am I open to being challenged about my character, habbits, life style, and doctrine?

5. Do I believe in the mission of this fellowship, and how will I help in carrying it out?

It seems like a lot of people want church to be like fast food resteraunts, "Have it my way. Make it so that I'm loving it". Why eat at a resteraunt that charges $2 for a buger, the regular customers are all old, it has no play place, and the crew is small, and always seems to be in a training stage; when you can go to a resteraunt that charges $1 for a burger, has a modern play place, a multigenerational demographic, and where the emplyees are all pros at everything? The answer is that sometimes God calls us to the small, seemingly boring and laborious fellowship.
 

lforrest

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Let me answer for myself:

1 - 2. I have been coaxed by God back into the church of my youth, I am called to lead, yet selfishness and complacency rule in church politics. I despise the hypocrisy that rears its head, when people go from friendly greetings to bile filled hatred and bickering. I have spoken inspired admonishments before the whole congregation devised to cut to the core and leave hope in the wound.

3. I would bring negative influences. However, [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]I need to be concerned for my own soul first, fellowship is very important for growth. I can not have genuine fellowship with those whom are in fellowship with the world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]4. If they can pry any such information from me I am open to being [/SIZE]challenged[SIZE=14.3999996185303px].[/SIZE]

5. We have no mission.

However, despite all these reasons to quit I am staying for the single glimmer of hope.
 

Enquirer

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When I join a church, the first thing I look for is strong leadership ... this is vital, for that is how I connect with that community.
I watch how true he is to the word and how he relates to the people, does he give preferential treatment to the wealthy,
is he afraid of preaching the truth etc.
And whether we like it or not most people are attracted to the person in charge, you are the door to me coming back, giving
my money and getting involved.
It's mainly about personality, that might sound fickle but that is how relationships work.
 

sjmopas

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Thanks for your thoughts, good things to consider.


Iforrest, I think the church needs more people like you, men and women committed for the long haul, who will stay through thick and thin. Not that there aren't a lot of folks like this, but the moore the better.


Enquirer, I have only regularly fellowshiped with four congregations, each one based on moving to different cities or states. I do attend more fellowships than this, but it is just to maintain a good connection with brothers and sisters from other denominations. I have never considered starting with looking at the leadership, I guess because I always felt God leading me to specific fellowships.

Let me ask you. If you felt that a leadership wasn't strong, would you just leave asap, or would you share your concern with the leadership? The reason I ask is because it seems like this is a step a lot of people refuse to take. They quickly label that fellowship heretical or cultish, and church hop until they find a congregation they can get lost in, stay in a comfort zone. I think that kind of responce is an error, a missed opportunity. If the leadership refuses to consider any input then I understand the need to leave. This is why I believe it is important to attend regular fellowship where God leads us to.
 

lforrest

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A lack of leadership is the primary problem we identified with our church, more so now that the pastor has resigned. The problem is the pastor has no authority, it belongs to the board. Its a disappointing situation to say the least.

One concern I had was being disobedient by staying. 2 Timothy 3:2-5. "2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people."

So in [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]verses [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]2 Timothy 3:[/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]2 - 4[/SIZE] we first have a listing of a whole lot of worldly behaviors. And the nail in the coffin which I believe to be self righteousness ("appearance of godliness" in verse 5). But all these sins are redeemable.

But also in verse 5 we have but denying it's power (Perhaps this refers to the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.) Then the advice, "avoid such people". The only reason I can think of to avoid such people is because there is no hope for them. And this would fit with my interpretation, because there is no hope for those whom turn their backs on the Holy Spirit.
 

HammerStone

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I'm not a pastor, but I consider myself an educated layperson. I volunteer where I am able to do so and I've spent time in studying ecclesiology on a limited basis. I've grown up in the Baptist and Methodist traditions, having changed churches 2 times in my life, going from a Baptist to Methodist church in one move and then a Methodist to a Baptist/Non-denominational church in the next. The first move was because my family moved as a child, the second was a result of marriage to my wife and gradual disaffiliation with the Methodist Church.

Everyone makes church hopping - and I think your analogy of fast food church is spot on - seem to be limited to certain denominations. In my experience, this is not the case. I've seen confessionalists church hop, I've known of Pentecostal, Baptist, Methodist, etc church hoppers. I've even heard of Catholic or Anglican hoppers, they just may go about it differently.

I am of the opinion that one should stick with a church until there is an absolute breakpoint that cannot be overcome. We Protestants are notorious because of the various denominational flavors, but the first solution should never be to jump.

Too many people are looking for the perfect church - the place of perfection that often looks remarkably like their own opinion world. Like you said, first and foremost it is a matter of where God puts you. The tradition or worship style may vary, but God places you there for a reason. The so-called worship wars are a distraction, and most churches are losing congregants regardless of how they worship. This reflects that worshipping God transcends any time or place, but it also reflects the danger that God's presence may leave a Church regardless of song choice.

On the other side of the coin, Churches can be way too obsessed with arguments of liturgy or relevance, and that is wrong.

At the end of the day, IMHO, the Church should be a place of both comfort and uncomfortableness. Comfort in the sense that you are among family who love you, and that conversely means you accept Crazy Uncle Eddie (Christmas Vacation reference intended) and love him. On the other side, you submit yourself to a community of believers that follows Jesus, seeks to imitate Jesus, and maintains the standards of Jesus, however imperfectly every once in a while. It also means that there will be times where the Bible or even the Church (and authorities) will be in judgment on you and it might be uncomfortable. Thus, we are all being sanctified over time and if I am being sanctified, it means I will need correction at some point, by very definition.

That's not very popular in have-it-your-way-land.
 

Born_Again

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When non-denominational churches started to pop up around where I live I was very skeptic. But I was raised Lutheran. If you know anything of the Lutheran faith, you know they are very strict with little breathing room. I of course am no longer Lutheran. That being said, I too am not a fan of have-it-your-way. I was looking for a church that was spot on with the word and was welcoming and non-judgmental. It was hard to find a church that didn't scold you until you were "one of them".

When I became Presbyterian, that particular church was very welcoming and even had the two old ladies in the back row that gossiped all the time. They reminded me of the two old guys from the Muppet show. But I had a lot of fun there and even participate in the "His Hands" puppet ministries. That was in my teen years. As I got a little older I fell away from faith and from the church. I never went back, especially after my parents got divorced.

Now I do not have a church as I am nervous about what I might find...... Any recommendations? I have very deep faith now and I don't want to walk in to a church only to be critical about it.
 

Enquirer

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sjmopas said:
Let me ask you. If you felt that a leadership wasn't strong, would you just leave asap, or would you share your concern with the leadership? The reason I ask is because it seems like this is a step a lot of people refuse to take. They quickly label that fellowship heretical or cultish, and church hop until they find a congregation they can get lost in, stay in a comfort zone. I think that kind of responce is an error, a missed opportunity. If the leadership refuses to consider any input then I understand the need to leave. This is why I believe it is important to attend regular fellowship where God leads us to.
No, I would not leave immediately, I would spend some time fellowshipping at that specific congregation.
I think a good interpretation of a strong leadership for me would be strong in the word and a non compromise of that word.
Looks, dress or personality etc., would not really play any importance at all, take a look at John Piper, he looks like a real nerd but his wisdom concerning
the word is outstanding.

Spending at least three months there would give me time to observe his consistency, unless of course he was downright obnoxious in his attitude toward
his congregation as in domineering or blatantly sinful or totally off with the word.

I have been in a number of different denominations Anglican, Baptist and Charismatic in my early years as a believer and left one specific church
when I sensed it was time to go, and this I interpreted as the Spirit led me.
Or was totally put off, in one instance where the Pastor kept on saying God said "we must do this or that" and it kept ending up in a mess proving that God
was clearly not in it.
And we the congregation had to foot the financial bill for his mistakes.
Or where the activities of the leaders under the authority of the Pastor went on a power trip and threw their weight around.
This I feel is something that not even an excellent leader can rectify through their excellent preaching or teaching ... they absolutely have to watch
who they promote, this is vital to keeping their members.
Also, the "clique" that they surround themselves with, let me explain, there is some sort of super-group that is formed and no one gets in unless you
have the "bucks", are influential in the community or are family etc.
No matter how hard you work or what you do, you will never get promoted because you just-ain't-super.

I don't like church-hopping, I want to find a solid church that I can grow some roots in but the way is a way of sometimes having to compromise
far too much.

I would not confront the leadership and tell them where I see them going off, I would simply leave.
It is up to the leadership to do some soul searching and introspection as to the way they run things, not mine.
 
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