Do you believe Jesus has given you the Holy Spirit?

John Zain · Dec 2, 2014

Johnlove said:
[SIZE=16pt]If you read scripture Jesus tells us that.[/SIZE]

It takes much more than reading Scripture.
It takes spiritual discernment of what you are reading.
It takes understanding of what you are reading.
But, first it takes being born-again with the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Even better than this, it takes being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

I believe we all know ...
those w/o the Holy Spirit understand absolutely nothing about the NT.

Johnlove said:
[SIZE=16pt]Notice that Paul was speaking to those in Christ?[/SIZE]

Sorry, you're going to have to quote the "in Christ" passage from Ephesians 1.

Born_Again · Dec 2, 2014

It actually says "faithful in Christ".

John Zain · Dec 2, 2014

Born_Again said:
It actually says "faithful in Christ".

Sorry, I missed it ... thought you meant all the church was in Christ.

Johnlove · Dec 2, 2014

Born_Again said:
It actually says "faithful in Christ".

[SIZE=16pt]It takes faith to stay in Christ, does it not?[/SIZE]

John Zain · Dec 2, 2014

Johnlove said:
[SIZE=16pt]It takes faith to stay in Christ, does it not?[/SIZE]

Being "in Christ" means a whole lot of things,
including walking in the Spirit (as opposed to walking in the the flesh).
Some born-again believers live mostly "according to the flesh"
and IMO they are not considered to be "in Christ".

And, as usual, please beware of Paul's habitual approach of mixing
his serious warnings in with lots of edifications, encouragements, etc.
This is called tactful rebuke.
And ... "Let the Holy Spirit reveal what He wishes to reveal."

Two reasons for this method of writing to churches:
1) so he would always be welcome to visit
2) don't scare away the babes in Christ

Johnlove · Dec 2, 2014

evangelist-7 said:
Being "in Christ" means a whole lot of things,
including walking in the Spirit (as opposed to walking in the the flesh).
Some born-again believers live mostly "according to the flesh"
and IMO they are not considered to be "in Christ".

And, as usual, please beware of Paul's habitual approach of mixing
his serious warnings in with lots of edifications, encouragements, etc.
This is called tactful rebuke.
And ... "Let the Holy Spirit reveal what He wishes to reveal."

Two reasons for this method of writing to churches:
1) so he would always be welcome to visit
2) don't scare away the babes in Christ

[SIZE=16pt]As long one knows he or she are not in Christ if they still sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]This is how we know we are in him[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did” [/SIZE]

Wormwood · Dec 2, 2014

Johnlove,

Again, the context of 1 John is false teachers, specifically early Gnostics. If you knew the historical context of this letter you would understand what John is saying. We must keep into account the situation and the people being written to in the biblical text. To rip it out of its context, both historically and as a letter, is to lead to all kinds of error in understanding what the Spirit is teaching.

John is writing about false teachers - 1 John 2:18-19. These false teachers were teaching doctrines that were leading people astray - 1 John 2:19. Specifically, these teachers were denying that Jesus = Christ. They claimed that the man Jesus, was different from the Christ spirit that came upon him at baptism and left him at the cross. This is why John says that he came by both the water AND the blood. They taught that Christ's death was without purpose, because the reason the Christ spirit came upon Jesus was to bestow secret knowledge - gnosis. If you had this gnosis, then you could do whatever you wanted and indulge in any sin you wanted to because the only thing that mattered was spirit and knowledge...not the flesh.

So, this is why John says you don't need anyone to teach you because you have the Holy Spirit and you "know" - gnosis- that you belong to God. This isn't saying that teachers have no role in the church or that Johnlove can be his own personal church with no accountability. It's saying you don't need some super-teacher with special knowledge to give you the key to heaven. This is also why John is saying that we must walk as Jesus walked and that he came to abolish sin. It is NOT saying that someone with the Holy Spirit cannot sin. It is saying that any teacher who leads people astray by saying that what matters is what we know and therefore we can live however we want and embrace any lifestyle we want is a false teacher. Jesus came to abolish sin, not excuse it. Christ calls us to be a holy people who love others as he loved us. Those who have the Spirit of Christ will walk in love and turn from sin. Those who use Christ as a means of excusing evil and permitting wickedness are anti-Christ. THIS is John's point, (which is similar to Paul's point in Romans 6).

So to take these verses to mean that if you ever sin you don't have the Holy Spirit and you belong to Satan is a complete abuse of the verses and displays a true ignorance of what the Spirit inspired John to write. That is absolutely NOT what he is teaching and you need to quit promoting such nonsense, Johnlove.

Johnlove · Dec 2, 2014

Wormwood said:
Johnlove,

Again, the context of 1 John is false teachers, specifically early Gnostics. If you knew the historical context of this letter you would understand what John is saying. We must keep into account the situation and the people being written to in the biblical text. To rip it out of its context, both historically and as a letter, is to lead to all kinds of error in understanding what the Spirit is teaching.

John is writing about false teachers - 1 John 2:18-19. These false teachers were teaching doctrines that were leading people astray - 1 John 2:19. Specifically, these teachers were denying that Jesus = Christ. They claimed that the man Jesus, was different from the Christ spirit that came upon him at baptism and left him at the cross. This is why John says that he came by both the water AND the blood. They taught that Christ's death was without purpose, because the reason the Christ spirit came upon Jesus was to bestow secret knowledge - gnosis. If you had this gnosis, then you could do whatever you wanted and indulge in any sin you wanted to because the only thing that mattered was spirit and knowledge...not the flesh.

So, this is why John says you don't need anyone to teach you because you have the Holy Spirit and you "know" - gnosis- that you belong to God. This isn't saying that teachers have no role in the church or that Johnlove can be his own personal church with no accountability. It's saying you don't need some super-teacher with special knowledge to give you the key to heaven. This is also why John is saying that we must walk as Jesus walked and that he came to abolish sin. It is NOT saying that someone with the Holy Spirit cannot sin. It is saying that any teacher who leads people astray by saying that what matters is what we know and therefore we can live however we want and embrace any lifestyle we want is a false teacher. Jesus came to abolish sin, not excuse it. Christ calls us to be a holy people who love others as he loved us. Those who have the Spirit of Christ will walk in love and turn from sin. Those who use Christ as a means of excusing evil and permitting wickedness are anti-Christ. THIS is John's point, (which is similar to Paul's point in Romans 6).

So to take these verses to mean that if you ever sin you don't have the Holy Spirit and you belong to Satan is a complete abuse of the verses and displays a true ignorance of what the Spirit inspired John to write. That is absolutely NOT what he is teaching and you need to quit promoting such nonsense, Johnlove.

[SIZE=16pt]Ask yourself why the Holy Spirit would have a letter sent to some false teachers, placed in the bible. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Those who assembled the writings for the bible had much good teaching to choose from, and like John said there just was not enough room to put it all in writing. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Also why don’t you give some confirmation that what your believe John did is so?[/SIZE]

justaname · Dec 2, 2014

Wormwood,

The spirit of pride and arrogance is unteachable.

IanLC · Dec 2, 2014

I do believe that Jesus has given me the Holy Ghost and that with fire! (John 7:39; Acts 2:1-4)

Enquirer · Dec 3, 2014

Johnlove I'm just going to come out and say it ... you're a false teacher, propagating dreams and visions from your fleshly mind.

There quite a number of others who also had "visions and visitations" and have caused nothing but misery and destruction for those who
followed them ... Mohammed, Joseph Smith, and their like.
Furthermore, your limited understanding of the word and pride limits your progression to truth.
I just hope and pray that you do not have a following because they're on the same path of destruction.

Stop asking people to question themselves, you answer the questions that are posed to you.
Your misconception that there are infants in Christ meaning they're only half-Christians until they get the Holy spirit and become
proper Christians is ridiculous.

The fact that you cannot see that the Corinthian church ALREADY HAD THE HOLY SPIRIT from chapter 14 and yet still behaved fleshly
is beyond me.
I can't wait to see what cooked up theory you come up with to answer that.

Born_Again · Dec 3, 2014

Here is how I know I'm on the right path and that the HS is working in me. When I was a teenager, I went to church multiple days a week. But that's all I did. I went to church. I didn't receive a message because outside of the church I was very sinful. I was 15-16 years old.... Had other things on my mind. And when my parents got divorced I stopped going all together. I have faced a lifetime a trials since then and I have been blessed and pulled through. But I still had little faith.

I am in the greatest trial I have ever faced at this moment. I had gave in and asked Christ to save me and deliver me and gave it all to Him! All my heartache and fears left me. I ask God daily for guidance and to be a vessel for Him to work through. With that, I tell you, I have never felt so loved and carried before in my life. I see His works daily in my life. God told me to use my talents and spread His word. And guess what..... I have a book coming out this spring. Why is that important? I have written other manuscripts in other genres and have had them rejected by other publishers. (Before MY walk with Christ).

So I used my talent to write to His Glory and the first publisher picked it up!! And I still stumble in my walk. I don't need to sling scripture to prove my points. I have the works of God to show that I am on the right path!

When the book hits stores sometime in March I'll let you know where to find it! Let my life be the proof of His love!!!

Johnlove · Dec 3, 2014

Enquirer said:
Johnlove I'm just going to come out and say it ... you're a false teacher, propagating dreams and visions from your fleshly mind.

There quite a number of others who also had "visions and visitations" and have caused nothing but misery and destruction for those who
followed them ... Mohammed, Joseph Smith, and their like.
Furthermore, your limited understanding of the word and pride limits your progression to truth.
I just hope and pray that you do not have a following because they're on the same path of destruction.

Stop asking people to question themselves, you answer the questions that are posed to you.
Your misconception that there are infants in Christ meaning they're only half-Christians until they get the Holy spirit and become
proper Christians is ridiculous.

The fact that you cannot see that the Corinthian church ALREADY HAD THE HOLY SPIRIT from chapter 14 and yet still behaved fleshly
is beyond me.
I can't wait to see what cooked up theory you come up with to answer that.

[SIZE=16pt]Scripture shows us that some who have received the Holy Spirit, and knew they received him, because they walked in the gifts of the Holy Spirit; yet decided not live God’s commandments.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira-------.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Then there those who after receiving the Holy Spirit, and accepting the grace to live God’s commandments, became temples of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Those people knew they were temples of God, because Jesus showed himself to them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]([/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Today those whom Jesus has not showed himself to have to make up excuses to make themselves feel righteous.[/SIZE]

justaname · Dec 3, 2014

Johnlove said:
Scripture shows us that some who have received the Holy Spirit, and knew they received him, because they walked in the gifts of the Holy Spirit; yet decided not live God’s commandments.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira-------.”

Then there those who after receiving the Holy Spirit, and accepting the grace to live God’s commandments, became temples of God.

Those people knew they were temples of God, because Jesus showed himself to them.

(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

Today those whom Jesus has not showed himself to have to make up excuses to make themselves feel righteous.

This is still disproving your false theology...

13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

This says the Holy Spirit indwells upon belief, we are sealed, and is the guarantee of our inheritance. God guarantees our inheritance with His Spirit...
I have already proven through Scripture the Holy Spirit indwells upon belief...this is contrary to your teachings. This same Scripture says the Holy Spirit stays until redemption.

The Matthew 7:21 verse can be explained by the account in Acts of those unbelievers driving out demons in the name of Jesus and Paul. Some people use magic in Jesus' name...the list could go on.

What I see here is a man who is trapped in his own theology. For him to admit he is wrong on his teachings is to admit he is a false teacher, which is a sin. His theology states if he messes up just once he is condemned. This keeps him trapped in perpetual unrepentant sin; pride.

Johnlove I will continue to pray for you.

Enquirer · Dec 3, 2014

Johnlove said:
[SIZE=16pt]The Holy Spirit will make sure a person does what God demands.[/SIZE]

Show me the Scripture for that, which verse says so ?

Born_Again · Dec 3, 2014

[SIZE=16pt]"Scripture shows us that some who have received the Holy Spirit, and knew they received him, because they walked in the gifts of the Holy Spirit; yet decided not live God’s commandments." ----- indicates free-will. Thats good.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]"The Holy Spirit will make sure a person does what God demands." -------- Contradicts previous statement.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Would you like to amend your 2nd statement there or be contradicting?[/SIZE]

Johnlove · Dec 3, 2014

Born_Again said:
[SIZE=16pt]"Scripture shows us that some who have received the Holy Spirit, and knew they received him, because they walked in the gifts of the Holy Spirit; yet decided not live God’s commandments." ----- indicates free-will. Thats good.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]"The Holy Spirit will make sure a person does what God demands." -------- Contradicts previous statement.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Would you like to amend your 2nd statement there or be contradicting?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]That does not mean that the Holy Spirit forces one to obey. The Holy Spirit makes sure one know what God’s Commands are.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](Romans 8: 4-5) “This was so that the Law's requirements might be fully satisfied in us as we direct our lives not by our natural inclinations but by the Spirit.”[/SIZE]

justaname said:
This is still disproving your false theology...

1

3 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
[SIZE=16pt]Again that scripture promises are for those who are in God/Jesus.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]To be in Jesus one must do a Jesus did. Jesus obeyed God’s Commandments. God’s Commandments include not sinning. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Paul tells us that those who sin will not inherent the kingdom of God. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”[/SIZE]

Click to expand...

This says the Holy Spirit indwells upon belief, we are sealed, and is the guarantee of our inheritance. God guarantees our inheritance with His Spirit...
I have already proven through Scripture the Holy Spirit indwells upon belief...this is contrary to your teachings. This same Scripture says the Holy Spirit stays until redemption.

The Matthew 7:21 verse can be explained by the account in Acts of those unbelievers driving out demons in the name of Jesus and Paul. Some people use magic in Jesus' name...the list could go on.
[SIZE=16pt]No it cannot. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus spoke this to everyone. This was a teaching that Jesus personally told all of those who were listening. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]This scripture speaks for itself. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]All your explanation is, is a way to be able to disregard what Jesus said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Also you have nothing to support such an understanding[/SIZE]

What I see here is a man who is trapped in his own theology. For him to admit he is wrong on his teachings is to admit he is a false teacher, which is a sin. His theology states if he messes up just once he is condemned. This keeps him trapped in perpetual unrepentant sin; pride.
[SIZE=16pt]What you see is someone speaking the truth, and you can’t seem to accept the truth, so you start throwing stones. [/SIZE]

Johnlove I will continue to pray for you.
[SIZE=16pt]I believe that it would be better for me if you would not pray for me. [/SIZE]

Wormwood · Dec 3, 2014

Ask yourself why the Holy Spirit would have a letter sent to some false teachers, placed in the bible.

Those who assembled the writings for the bible had much good teaching to choose from, and like John said there just was not enough room to put it all in writing.

Also why don’t you give some confirmation that what your believe John did is so?

The Holy Spirit who wrote this to believers, not false teachers. This was to protect believers from the teachings of these "anti-Christs." There is nothing new under the sun. The same types of teachings that the Gnostics propogated are at work in the Church today. So, yes, these verses are just as valuable today as they were when John wrote them. Christians still need to know that Christ did not come to excuse sin, etc.

I don't understand your last question. I certainly believe all that John wrote and that the things he said happened, happened. Is that what you are asking?

Born_Again · Dec 3, 2014

"I believe that it would be better for me if you would not pray for me."

Why? If he's wrong, what's the worst that could happen............ Would you pray for him?

Johnlove · Dec 3, 2014

Wormwood said:
The Holy Spirit who wrote this to believers, not false teachers. This was to protect believers from the teachings of these "anti-Christs." There is nothing new under the sun. The same types of teachings that the Gnostic s propogated are at work in the Church today. So, yes, these verses are just as valuable today as they were when John wrote them. Christians still need to know that Christ did not come to excuse sin, etc.

I don't understand your last question. I certainly believe all that John wrote and that the things he said happened, happened. Is that what you are asking?

[SIZE=16pt]You accuse, and have no proof, and that is very insulting. Can you do that because you are a monitor?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Have I insulted anyone on this forum? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Gnostic beliefs generally strike a chord of truth with most people, no matter their background. One very important belief is that personal transcendence & enlightenment (Gnosis) can be achieved not from the material world, but from examination of the mind, accessing inner truth, and seeking spiritual wisdom.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]My world has nothing to do with my mind. I don’t transcend to gain enlightenment. People take drugs to do such crazy things.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]My mind is just flesh. I am interested in only what God wants me to be, and do. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Now show me how I am a Gnostic.[/SIZE]

Born_Again said:
"I believe that it would be better for me if you would not pray for me."

Why? If he's wrong, what's the worst that could happen............ Would you pray for him?

[SIZE=16pt]Did I say it was wrong for him or her to pray for me? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I do not care to say why I asked him or her to pray for me. [/SIZE]

Do you believe Jesus has given you the Holy Spirit?

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