what does the Bible say about Christians and nudism?

[SIZE=12pt]Good insights on both of the administrator and moderator.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Below are two scriptures that might help:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” Re 16:15[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“Abstain from all appearance of evil.” 1 Th 5:22[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In Christ[/SIZE]

Their justification is disturbing. They are in for huge surprise....... not one I would want.

You are looking at the flesh. Terrible way to put it, given the circumstances. But you are looking at your elders in Church and their lifestyle and making a decision to attend or not attend Church based on what their flesh is doing.

Are nudist colonies sinful? Don't know.... Never been to one! I don't understand the culture of it. I wonder why they are going.... Is it to look at others or simply because they hate wearing clothes? No matter.

Just curious, have you talked to these elders about other things? Did they say something intelligent about the Bible? Did you grow from them otherwise? Or are you so upset they walk around naked in some closed community that you can't hear what spiritual knowledge they impart?

I'd like to ask you if you know that Isaiah preached for 3 years naked. Oh yea... Check out Isa 20. Now he did it for a point. But he was naked and NOT in a nudist colony! He did it in the streets!

No, it ain't a sin, and God even ordained it at certain points. Now it could be that these elders are just engaging in a lifestyle that celebrates the nake flesh, and that is wrong as we aren't to know any man after the flesh (meaning, we aren't supposed to pay attention to it, and they are drawing attention to it on purpose).

But I gotta say, wow.... A couple of old geezers talking about being nude caused you to leave a Church? Yea.... there's some strength!!!!

Okay two things... First, there's a post missing..(never mind, I see dude got ousted)... not important.. 2nd FHII Good post. Last line in your post made me chuckle... LOL Thanks for the laugh!!!!

Gen 3:7 they realized they were naked and covered themselves. This tells us naturally now it is shameful to be naked in public. Gen. 9:21 Noah's sons thought it disrespectful to see their father naked. I promise this goes beyond one's own father. Exodus 20:26 a shameful way to approach God (if given a choice). 1 Tim 2:9 Dress modestly. I can also promise this went beyond woman but was not needed to be stated as it was already understood as woman have most temptations to be revealing and the same is frowned upon with men. Rev. 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire so you can become rich and with white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness.. All through scripture, apart from sexual relations with wife, nakedness is looked at in shame for those who love God. Beauty is a gift that should be treasured to the right one and not shown in disrespect to lustful human beings. Sometimes a hard but very true lesson to learn. I would or could not support a church that was OK with nudity. God bless.

HammerStone said:

Titus 1:6 NIV
An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

I mean sorry but that's not consistent logic, in fact it's entirely wrong logic. The references to Isaiah and David being naked at times (David might have danced in his birthday suit) were in specific circumstances. Isaiah's was a microcosm of the shame and suffering that would be experienced: "the Lord said, “As My servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot three years as a sign and omen against Egypt and Cush," (Isaiah 20:3). This was instructed by God and not a good thing. In David's case, he possibly danced for joy in the nude when the ark was restored to Israel (2 Samuel 6:20). It's more likely he stripped down to undergarments unfitting for a king in his era.

This wasn't a lifestyle and wasn't necessarily viewed as permissible or even okay.

This is sinful behavior that elders should not be involved in, period. There's no way to legitimately dress this one up. The only thing that justifies this would be the mantra of our era that you can do whatever you want with yourself, and that mantra is not of anything Jesus said. These people are never beyond grace, but they are certainly beyond eldership.

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And again you are basing that on their fleshly actions. They don't seem to have a problem with it; you do.

As for Titus 1:6.... Read on before using a verse to make your point:



Tit 1:6 - 11 (KJV)

6 If any [elders] be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

being riotous and unruly is defined in the latter verses by what Paul says they should be. As you can see, they relate to some fleshly actions, but none of them require him to be clothed, do they? Of those things that pertain to the flesh, it's about making sound judgments in the Church setting (not given to wine, slow to anger, not a striker.)

Let me put it another way. What is one that can be accused of riot and being unruly? 1. He's selfwilled, 2. He's quick to anger, 3. He drinks too much, 4. he's a striker (brawler), 5. He's in it for the money.... Etc.... Nothing about him going to a nudist colony.

FHII, so are you saying that if they feel the need to walk about in their birthday suit for their own indulgences, then it is okay? Morally? I don't recall the verse where God says, "My people!! Let it all hang out!!!"

Born_Again said:

FHII, so are you saying that if they feel the need to walk about in their birthday suit for their own indulgences, then it is okay? Morally? I don't recall the verse where God says, "My people!! Let it all hang out!!!"

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Born Again, there's no need to go down that street. First, he didn't have a problem with Adam and Woman. Second, He didn't have a problem with David. Third, Yea... He actually did tell Isaiah to do it, and fourth.... Aren't we all naked before God? Answer? Yes, we are.

Furthermore, how far do you and others who are of this thinking want to go with it? Is it wrong to go to a nude beach? Ok.... Fine, can we go in a bikini or swim suit? If so, what does the Lord say is acceptable swim attire? How much skin showing is too much for people people who aren't supposed to judge others by the flesh?

Maybe Islam is right and we should dress head to toe in cloth!

God is not looking at our fleshly performance and neither should we!

FHII said:

Born Again, there's no need to go down that street. First, he didn't have a problem with Adam and Woman. Second, He didn't have a problem with David. Third, Yea... He actually did tell Isaiah to do it, and fourth.... Aren't we all naked before God? Answer? Yes, we are.

Furthermore, how far do you and others who are of this thinking want to go with it? Is it wrong to go to a nude beach? Ok.... Fine, can we go in a bikini or swim suit? If so, what does the Lord say is acceptable swim attire? How much skin showing is too much for people people who aren't supposed to judge others by the flesh?

Maybe Islam is right and we should dress head to toe in cloth!

God is not looking at our fleshly performance and neither should we!

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I'm not meaning to offend or aggravate. I am merely saying that it is likely, the two elders, are doing it more for impure desires and using God as an excuse. Yes, we are all naked before the Lord but out of reverence is one thing, out of impure indulgences is another. I myself, am rather conservative and do not let my daughters wear two-piece bathing suites. I feel the body is the temple if the HS dwells in you and it should be treated as such, not flaunted around only to entice others as most bathing suits are designed to do.

Hey, I just answered a post and was going about doing my dishes. A thought came to mind... The "Holy Spirit" spoke to me! I'm not going to sit here and defend a couple of elders (whom I don't even know) over something that really doesn't matter to God. Because IT DOESN'T!

But what I do see is a bunch of accusers of the brethren! I see a bunch of people throwing off at them for something so trivial in the eyes of God that I entered the conversation only because it was amusing!

Has anyone once thought to ask these elders something spiritual? Or is all that is interesting about them is their nudity? Whose fault is that? YOU people are probably more worried about it than they are! So yea.... Go to God and say... "Did you see them Church people? They went to a nude beach! How can they be Christians? They give tithes! They go to Church every Sunday! They help people in the community! They read the Bible! But they go to nude beaches!!!!"

Yea... You are going to look real stupid accusing them when God rolls the footage of your life and it's just as bad or worse!

We have Mat 7:1 that says judge not and ye shall not be judged. We have 1 Cor 2:15 that says he that is spiritual judgeth all things. 1 Cor 6:2 says the SAINTS shall judge the world.... Yea I know all them verses... But if you are judging a couple of naked old folks and not looking at the spiritual.... Well... You are just an accuser of the brethren.

Before the rebellion in the garden of Eden, the nakedness of Adam and Eve was not seen as wrong, for they were husband and wife.(Gen 2:25) However, with their being a mutiny against God's sovereignty in the garden of Eden, this brought forth sin and changes.(sin is from the Hebrew word chattath that means to "miss", as in missing when shooting an arrow, missing the mark of perfect obedience to our Maker, Jehovah God)


After eating from the "tree of knowledge of good and bad" (that represented Jehovah's right to establish moral boundaries for man as his creation and to test Adam and Eve's loyalty), suddenly both Adam and Eve became aware that they were naked.(Gen 3:7) Their consciences went into operation, causing them to feel guilt, and in which God asks Adam: "Who told you that you were naked ?"(Gen 3:10, 11)


But now the perfect humans that God had made were now defiled, sinners, imperfect, violators of Jehovah's command.(Gen 2:17) Their guilt-stricken consciences made them aware that they were naked, so that they immediately sought to cover their sexual organs.(Gen 3:6, 7)


This showed that their consciences were functioning as designed, to warn us when we are about to do wrong or prick us when we have crossed a moral boundary.(in their case, they recognized their nakedness only "after the fact", after they sinned, for nakedness up till then was not wrong)


In putting Adam and Eve outside the garden, "Jehovah God made long garments from skins for Adam and for his wife, to clothe them."(Gen 3:21) In imperfection, sexual desire can run amok. Having been designed with a conscience (that literally means co-knowledge, or knowledge with oneself), and when influenced by Bible principles, it jabs us when we reach a threshold point, such as how much we show of our bodies.


At Micah 6, it says: "He (Jehovah) has told you, O man, what is good. And what is Jehovah requiring of you ? Only to exercise justice, to cherish loyalty, and to walk in modesty (Hebrew tsana) with your God !"(Micah 6:8) What does the word modesty mean ? To know our limitations, from the authority we may or may not have to the clothes we wear.


One definition of modesty is defined as "sexual reserve".(Microsoft 2005 Reference Library) Hence, combined with how God covered Adam and Eve with "long garments", is an indicator of how we are to clothe ourselves. Being as the breasts of a woman are "connected" with her sexual organ, then modesty calls for these being fully covered, so as not to entice men.(see Prov 5:19 that says that a husband is "intoxicated" by his wife's breasts)


Also Proverbs 11:2 says that "when presumptuousness comes, dishonor will follow, but wisdom is with the modest (Hebrew tsana) ones." Those who reveal themselves so to be "sexy" are presumptuous, but those who are modest in their dress are seen as having godly wisdom.


We are living in an era of time, called "the last days" (or "conclusion of a system of things", Matt 24:3), whereby both men and women are "headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God."(2 Tim 3:4) These have no moral restraints, but whatever "feels good, then do it".


Modesty is a word that has been cast aside, and up to the "end" of this "world" in the near future, it will be seen as an obstacle to "fun" by many.(see Matt 24:12 in which Jesus says that during "the conclusion of the system of things", that "the love of the greater number will grow cold.")

FHII said:

Hey, I just answered a post and was going about doing my dishes. A thought came to mind... The "Holy Spirit" spoke to me! I'm not going to sit here and defend a couple of elders (whom I don't even know) over something that really doesn't matter to God. Because IT DOESN'T!

But what I do see is a bunch of accusers of the brethren! I see a bunch of people throwing off at them for something so trivial in the eyes of God that I entered the conversation only because it was amusing!

Has anyone once thought to ask these elders something spiritual? Or is all that is interesting about them is their nudity? Whose fault is that? YOU people are probably more worried about it than they are! So yea.... Go to God and say... "Did you see them Church people? They went to a nude beach! How can they be Christians? They give tithes! They go to Church every Sunday! They help people in the community! They read the Bible! But they go to nude beaches!!!!"

Yea... You are going to look real stupid accusing them when God rolls the footage of your life and it's just as bad or worse!

We have Mat 7:1 that says judge not and ye shall not be judged. We have 1 Cor 2:15 that says he that is spiritual judgeth all things. 1 Cor 6:2 says the SAINTS shall judge the world.... Yea I know all them verses... But if you are judging a couple of naked old folks and not looking at the spiritual.... Well... You are just an accuser of the brethren.

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Brother, that is a good point. Funny thing, I got a HS tap a few minutes ago as well, different topic, but an eye opener non-the-less. I stand down. I gave you a vote up!! There are more important issues in the world. I'm gonna roll with ya on this one. Meaning... I stand down from the debate. It's been a pleasure discussing this with you. God Bless!!

lforrest said:

It is my opinion that being naked isn't a sin, so long as it doesn't cause another to sin. But that was the situation here 1 Corinthians 8:9-13

Should we take it as far as the Muslims do and require full body coverings? probably not.

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Iforrest, I was thinking of that very verse about an hour ago. This is about the only verse I can think of that really applies and that perhaps they ought to show some restraint. However, realize this is talking about how to act around weak or ignorant Christians. That doesn't make them bad and it's not a put down to be called weak or ignorant. Just that they might still be in milk status and haven't grown enough for meat.

I've never liked the "it causes one to sin" arguement. Its more of a matter of allowing it to manifest, cause its already there. However, I suppose it does apply sometimes when you are around weak Christians.

2 Cor 2:1-11 is a passage I love. People take the thou shall not judge so out of context to excuse their actions. Here we see Paul saying I may of made you bitter but now I am happy I did because you have headed my warnings and obeyed sound doctrine. Correction is commanded for those in Christ if they are out of line .. in love .. however, we are not to judge an outsider as this is Gods place. Of course, even in this we must use much love and caution in knowing we all fall short.