Are WE as Christians a new creation or is it Christianity?

I stay with the language it was written in, which was Greek. You go there and look at each individual word and its context and you'll be fine.

English is a rotten language to have translate to.

And all those were put into English.

I know most English centric people prefer their English but sadly it's a mutt tongue made of at least a dozen other ones. Many unrelated. It's alphabet is not phonetic and it's system of grammar is so confusing that even linguists would rather speak Esperanto.

Also the Bible is contextual. Without considering all scripture before and after you'll completely mess it up. You cannot take a couple of passages and put them into a vacuum and make sense of it.

Unless this is one of those posts where people want to stamp their version as superior like the KJV crowd so often does.

"Except ye be born again, ye cannot see the kingdom of God." To my mind, and remembering the person I once was, being born again doesn't, as Nicodemus suggested, mean the same person re-entering and exiting the womb. The new birth is just that. A brand spanking completely new creature with the God-given potential and power (see John 1:12) to become or to grow and mature into the image of Christ. No longer a child of this world, but a child of the Kingdom of Heaven. No longer begotten after the image and likeness of man, but begotten after the image and likeness of our Creator.
As new creaures we are not grafted into 'Christianity'.... The Kingdom of God isn't new...we are grafted into an old tree...but we need to be new before grafting can take place.
The man that once was 40 years ago is now dead. Sure....some traits remain for a while...and with some re-emerge...but I know, and you would to, that the person writing this is not the same person who who was born into this world. Physically the same, yes, but spiritually, not by a long way.

Mark 2:22
"No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins."

I see the new wine as Christianity and fresh wineskins as Christians. Both are new.

StanJ said:

By your own words then you were no born anew. Being born again was in reference to their spiritual being as Jesus states in v5. Same person but born again in a spiritual sense. They were born INTO the NEW covenant and became part of it.

The context of Mark 2 does not lend itself to your application. It's actually about the old ways of the law regarding fasting and that Jesus' disciples did not do so.

Click to expand...

I do know and understand the context of Mark 2...

In direct responce to the question of fasting Jesus ends by saying.
But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.

It is next that the parables are given exclaiming and describing the impending changes. This is why it is applicable to this discussion.

Further supporting Scripture regarding my position...

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

A keyword here is "workmanship". This language speaks to a new creation. We are "created" in Christ Jesus so it follows that individuals are "created in Christ Jesus for good works".

Personally I like this translation regarding the OP...

2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Now when we see the word "therefore" we should go see what it is therefore...which if we diligently do our work it leads us back to the first verse in the chapter (and even further).

For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Clearly from this pericope we can see Paul is speaking of the temporal existence giving way to the eternal. It has a spiritual connotation. Yet even looking to the direct preceding verses of our text starting at 14...

For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.

Again what is being stressed is the spiritual aspect. Once dead with Christ we are resurrected in and through Him. Yes Christianity is new, simply read Hebrews to gain that perspective, yet again the individual is also a new creation which coincides with the "born again" language.

John 3:5-6
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So then if we are born of the Spirit we are no longer of the flesh, or of this world, we are spirit. And if we are spirit then we are to walk in the spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh living for Christ and not ourselves.

The Body of Christ corporate is made up of individual members. The Body of Christ is a new creation (one new man), only if individual members are. Cannot be any other way.

ωστε ει τις εν Χριστω καινη κτισις τα αρχαια παρηλθεν

This is what the Greek says...

Looking to the text literally it would say "If anyone in Christ a new creation, the old things passed away"

I like what the NASB says because it coincides with the whole of Scripture. Truly translations are not 100% accurate due to language differences so I pick the translation that best agrees with the whole of Scripture.

I don't agree with your assessment regarding the exhortations. Simply because we are spiritually made anew does not mean we will follow our new nature.

It is very simple. There is one Body of Christ, not many.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is definitely speaking of individual men. You don't speak about the singular Body of Christ by saying "if any man".

But, then again, each of the 5 translations do say, "If anyone", so they have that part right and Paul has to be speaking of individual men, individual "anyones", if you please.

This argument is like asking if the following verse is talking about the one new man (body of Christ) or an individual, human.

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If you have the Spirit of Christ you are a new creature.

Axehead