Are you a hypocrite?

KingJ · Mar 27, 2015

StanJ said:
Well that reasoning is flawed KJ. We are under the NC and I'm not talking about sin being in God's presence or whatever you are alluding to. You keep referring to the OT as if it is relevant under the NC.

The case in 1 Cor 5 was about accepting obvious sinful lifestyle IN the church. White lies are not obvious and in your comparison not obvious or blatant sin. Of course Paul would deal with sin that is very evident and obvious.

It is assigning works of the Holy Spirit to the devil knowing better. If you're going to make a statement, support it with scripture that is consistent. There is a very obvious difference that Jesus made between Himself and the Holy Spirit based on what the Pharisees said in Mark 3 and Luke 22. John also teaches this in 1 John 5.

Well I would never rape any woman, so I guess the white lie would be heavy on my heart. Again you are using your own personal feeling to interpret God's word and intent.

1. Stan, you can't write off the OT like you are doing. God does not change. God ordained sorcerers be burnt at the stake, adulterers stoned and those not circumsized excommunicated. Clearly He was more upset with certain sinners.

2. It seems pretty clear to me that Paul means mortal not just 'obvious'. 1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife.

3. I believe we have discussed this before. The unpardonable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit / Jesus. There is no other unpardonable sin. Here is a good article on it http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html.

4. We can escape God's judgement by judging ourselves 1 Cor 11:31. If I was stuck in mortal sins I would not be surprised if every church remove me per Paul's instructions on rebuke and discipline. If I was embarking on mortal sins I would fear God astronomically! Mortal sin is definitely / no blur on the matter of 'trampling the cross underfoot' Heb 10:29. This is not a personal feeling. This is from knowing what really upsets God and what is trivial.

StanJ said:
As only God knows the heart, YOU can't do ANY of that, which is why we are instructed to let God be the judge of unbelievers. Apparently you missed that in 1 Cor 5?

I am not suggesting we 'judge / condemn' the unsaved. Paul is clear to us in 1 Cor 5:9-10. But think about how Paul says he was the chiefest of sinners. We do not discipline / rebuke / chastize the unsaved. But we can certainly discern their level of rebellion to God. They have brains. Its all people need for accountability. A working brain knows right from wrong / mortal from venial sin.

StanJ · Mar 27, 2015

KingJ said:
1. Stan, you can't write off the OT like you are doing. God does not change. God ordained sorcerers be burnt at the stake, adulterers stoned and those not circumsized excommunicated. Clearly He was more upset with certain sinners.

2. It seems pretty clear to me that Paul means mortal not just 'obvious'. 1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife.

3. I believe we have discussed this before. The unpardonable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit ...Jesus. There is no other unpardonable sin. Here is a good article on it http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html.

4. We can escape God's judgement by judging ourselves 1 Cor 11:31. If I was stuck in mortal sins I would not be surprised if every church remove me per Paul's instructions on rebuke and discipline. If I was embarking on mortal sins needs I would fear God astronomically! This is not a personal feeling. This is from knowing what really upsets God and what is trivial. Your words 'itemized and obvious sin' are an unscriptural opinion.

I am not suggesting we 'judge / condemn' the unsaved. Paul is clear to us in 1 Cor 5:9-10. But think about how Paul says he was the chiefest of sinners. We do not discipline / rebuke / chastize the unsaved. But we can certainly discern their level of rebellion to God. They have brains. Its all people need for accountability. A working brain knows right from wrong / mortal from venial sin.

I'm not writing it off, we are just not subject to it's written laws under the NC. Not sure why you don't understand this as it is Christianity 101
Well we have different understanding of what Paul is saying then. To me and to him it was obvious sin because it just wasn't frowned upon by believers but by unbelievers as well. I still don't see where you get the word "mortal" out of this, other than RCC doctrine.
Sorry KJ but I don't remember with whom I discuss various topics as I do so a lot. The link is wrong in it's assertion. The sin is clearly BLASPHEMY against the Holy Spirit, not rejecting Jesus as Jesus Himself clearly states in these scriptures in response to their accusations that Jesus did what He did in castings out the demons. You are not reading the whole section in context. Contributing the power of the Holy Spirit in driving out these demons to the devil was close to the unpardonable sin, but Jesus knew they did not really KNOW the Holy Spirit even though they deliberately tried to associate this miracle with Satan. Not being saved is not a sin it is simply rejection. God commands we must be saved.
The point Paul was making is that it is not up to OURSELVES to judge OURSELVES, it is up to the body to point out unrepented sin in those lives that purport to be Christian. We are to hold each other accountable and to confess our sins one to another. Again Christianity 101.

Paul didn't say he WAS the chief of sinners, he said he IS. We are ALL sinners, some saved by grace some not. Saved is the operative distinction. What we are responsible to do is bring the GOOD news, not condemnation. Nobody KNOWS the heart but God. Not all working brains know the truth, which is evident in threads and discussions like this.

lforrest said:
A distinction is made for willful sins.

All sin is willful. That's the crux of the whole issue of mankind's fall, it was willful disobedience.

lforrest · Mar 28, 2015

FHII said:
Not sure where that is. Heb 10:26 is referring to forsaking the assemling of ourselves.

I was considering some strange doctrines concerning willful sin that your question has helped me to identify for review. It isn't as relevant as I thought.to the weight of a sin.

With one sacrifice Christ has paid for all sins, each of which would result in death, so sins are all equal in that regard. But is the death that would result from sin a punishment? I think of it more as a side effect, a law of nature.

In the OT the punishment for sin varies depending upon the weight of the sin. There are fewer witnesses to the weight of sin in the New testament. In the gospels Jesus came not to judge the world, so your not going to see much in the way of punishment there. The letters are during the new covenant, which relies on walking by the spirit during a time when they knew all sins are covered by the Blood (For those who believe). Again, not much material there to draw on. These NT verses show some differentiation among sins: Matthew 23:24, 1 Corinthians 6:18, Matthew 5:22, Mark 9:42, Mark 14:21

pom2014 · Mar 28, 2015

We have two commands. Just two.

Love God, love each other as ourselves.

We steal, we break the two.
We lie, we break the two.
We murder, we break the two.

There is no difference what the "method" of the transgression. We broke the two.

How long can you deny the commands of your King and still be his ally?

And if you can't at least follow his two, then how can you possibly say you're on his side?

These are incongruous actions.

You break the two and you've sinned. Continue to do so without stopping and you're a rebel. You're against our King.

And you're either on his side or you're not. I warn you all if you think one sin is lesser than another you're falling for the same trap that caught the Jews in the OT.. You're still drinking old wine.

KingJ · Mar 30, 2015

StanJ said:
I'm not writing it off, we are just not subject to it's written laws under the NC. Not sure why you don't understand this as it is Christianity 101

Well we have different understanding of what Paul is saying then. To me and to him it was obvious sin because it just wasn't frowned upon by believers but by unbelievers as well. I still don't see where you get the word "mortal" out of this, other than RCC doctrine.

Sorry KJ but I don't remember with whom I discuss various topics as I do so a lot. The link is wrong in it's assertion. The sin is clearly BLASPHEMY against the Holy Spirit, not rejecting Jesus as Jesus Himself clearly states in these scriptures in response to their accusations that Jesus did what He did in castings out the demons. You are not reading the whole section in context. Contributing the power of the Holy Spirit in driving out these demons to the devil was close to the unpardonable sin, but Jesus knew they did not really KNOW the Holy Spirit even though they deliberately tried to associate this miracle with Satan. Not being saved is not a sin it is simply rejection. God commands we must be saved.

The point Paul was making is that it is not up to OURSELVES to judge OURSELVES, it is up to the body to point out unrepented sin in those lives that purport to be Christian. We are to hold each other accountable and to confess our sins one to another. Again Christianity 101.

Paul didn't say he WAS the chief of sinners, he said he IS. We are ALL sinners, some saved by grace some not. Saved is the operative distinction. What we are responsible to do is bring the GOOD news, not condemnation. Nobody KNOWS the heart but God. Not all working brains know the truth, which is evident in threads and discussions like this.

All sin is willful. That's the crux of the whole issue of mankind's fall, it was willful disobedience.

Paul said he was the chiefest of sinners because he was murdering Christians. You believe he would have said it if he was telling white lies? Was Paul talking about murdering when he wrote Rom 7:15?

I don't see us agreeing on this at all. Paying close attention to God's heart in the OT and not preaching the 'sting' of the law is Christianity 101. God is not partial to us NT. The only difference is that now when we repent, we find Jesus / immediate salvation.

StanJ · Mar 30, 2015

Again KJ, you assume. I don't. ..he was talking about sin, period.
The OT/OC law was made obsolete and disappeared by 70 AD.
You keep making assertions with NO scriptural support. You have no leg to stand on in this regard.

KingJ · Mar 30, 2015

StanJ said:
1. Again KJ, you assume. I don't. ..he was talking about sin, period.
2. The OT/OC law was made obsolete and disappeared by 70 AD.
You keep making assertions with NO scriptural support. You have no leg to stand on in this regard.

1. He said he was the chiefest sinner as in told the 'most' white lies? Is that what you mean? If not can you explain why you think Paul said that without it sounding like your assumption?

I think Paul would completely forgive / understand / expect the dead obvious parallel to him murdering...

2. The OT law was not made obsolete. Jesus is clear on that in Matt 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them and Col 2:14 in having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Ie. If 'His people' now break one of the ten commandments we don't get stoned to death if we repent. But let's not think being stoned to death is not what pleases God if we don't repent. That is an assumption.

lforrest said:
With one sacrifice Christ has paid for all sins, each of which would result in death, so sins are all equal in that regard. But is the death that would result from sin a punishment? I think of it more as a side effect, a law of nature.

You need to understand that there is death and then there is death. Everyone OT was out of God's presence (death). Sin = death. BUT not everyone was in Hades.

Having sin has never eqauled Hades / hell. Loving sin does John 3:19. Now mortal sins point to that.

StanJ · Mar 30, 2015

KingJ said:
1. He said he was the chiefest sinner as in told the 'most' white lies? Is that what you mean? If not can you explain why you think Paul said that without it sounding like your assumption?

I think Paul would completely forgive / understand / expect the dead obvious parallel to him murdering...

2. The OT law was not made obsolete. Jesus is clear on that in Matt 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them and Col 2:14 in having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Ie. If 'His people' now break one of the ten commandments we don't get stoned to death if we repent. But let's not think being stoned to death is not what pleases God if we don't repent. That is an assumption.

Stop equivocating KJ...you KNOW what I said...it's in black and white in my post. Read it IN context of the whole section of scripture and stop cherry picking parts of verses to eisegete your position. It is NOT supportable.
Of course it was, as stated in Heb 8:13. Your example of Matt 5:17 is dishonest because v18 qualifies His statement in 17, and He accomplished everything when He rose from the dead. Yes our debt was cancelled by His crucifixion because IT cancelled the law.

I have no idea what you mean by 'stoning pleases God'. Loving our enemy is what pleases God.

You have a very twisted view of God and His love.

justaname · Mar 30, 2015

I would say I have been hypocritical yet I am not defined as a hypocrite. I may be hypocritical in the future again, yet through the will of God I may never be. This then is my will deciding not to be hypocritical coinciding with the will of God yet I am still to be perfected in my walk.

Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

BlackManINC · Mar 30, 2015

Dan57 said:
Hypocrisy is just saying one thing while doing another (the opposite).. I imagine we have all been hypocrites at one time or another.. I profess to be a Christian but I have broken a commandment, so does that make me a hypocrite? Jesus often referred to the Pharisees as hypocrites because they intentionally misconstrued the law to suit themselves. Perhaps a hypocrite isn't one who breaks the law, but a person who denies they are violating the law. Sinning doesn't make you a hypocrite, its justifying yourself when breaking laws while simultaneously condemning others for doing likewise that makes a person a hypocrite: e.g. I stole a loaf of bread but I'm not a thief, I was just hungry.

So falling short (sinning) doesn't make you a hypocrite per se, but justifying or exempting yourself for transgressing the laws that you claim to live by would seem to more accurately define what hypocrisy is ... jmo.

This is the difference between a believer in Christ and a non-believer. I put it this way, as believers, we confess that Jesus Christ is God almighty who created the heavens and the earth who came in the flesh to atone for our sins. We admit that we are born in a sinful nature, that we henceforth are inherit scum bags. We henceforth admit that we cannot work our way into Gods presence as our smiley faced works are nothing but filthy rags in the eyes of God. We are commanded to spread the Gospel and to treat others as Jesus Christ would have treated others. The unbeliever however, will not admit that they are scum bags who needs a savior. They deny the law because they believe themselves to be good, and they use their "good works" to justify themselves before God and for their own glory. There is none good but one, and that is God, so if anyone, especially a non-believer is criticizing me for breaking the law, I tell them that they break Gods law everyday and is every bit a scum bag in the eyes of the Lord as I am. The difference is that I admit that I am a scum bag, the heathen doesn't for he is unrepentant of his sins.

KingJ · Mar 31, 2015

StanJ said:
Stop equivocating KJ...you KNOW what I said...it's in black and white in my post. Read it IN context of the whole section of scripture and stop cherry picking parts of verses to eisegete your position. It is NOT supportable.

Of course it was, as stated in Heb 8:13. Your example of Matt 5:17 is dishonest because v18 qualifies His statement in 17, and He accomplished everything when He rose from the dead. Yes our debt was cancelled by His crucifixion because IT cancelled the law.

3. I have no idea what you mean by 'stoning pleases God'. Loving our enemy is what pleases God.

4. You have a very twisted view of God and His love.

1. You said ''sin period'' is what he meant. I just want to know how you can read ''I am the chiefest of sinners as ''..'I am a sinner period''.
2. You are not reading vs 18 properly and I think you missed vs 19 ''whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven''. The point is that Jesus fuflilled the requirement of the law / the requirement that we could not fill...namely righteousness. Much like faith Abraham had in God was accredited to Him as righteousness. Accepting Jesus shows a depth of intent. But this does not eqaute to us thinking we have made it / being confident in our salvation if we continue in a depth of intent of sin / mortal sin.

Example: I am your brother who has bullied and humiliated you your entire life. I then take a bullet for you. Suddenly the past and whatever humiliation I dish out to you in the future is trivial. But what if I had to...rape your wife...kill your baby....?

3. Yes, God loves His enemies. God also loves destroying the wicked. We love the Sharia law Muslims. We also love protecting the weak and having control over our enemy. We put our enemy that we can no longer tolerate in prison immediately. That is what stoning to death points to. I am not implying suffering / torture of any pleases God. People were stoned properly. No small stones. All death was quick / ish and overseen by elders. My point is that God removes the wicked when their sin is full measure. Mortal sinners need to really thank God for each day they are alive!

4. I think people who believe they are saved and can now get away with mortal sins are smoking some spiritual pot ^_^.

StanJ · Mar 31, 2015

KingJ said:
1. You said ''sin period'' is what he meant. I just want to know how you can read ''I am the chiefest of sinners as ''..'I am a sinner period''.
2. You are not reading vs 18 properly and I think you missed vs 19 ''whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven''. The point is that Jesus fuflilled the requirement of the law / the requirement that we could not fill...namely righteousness. Much like faith Abraham had in God was accredited to Him as righteousness. Accepting Jesus shows a depth of intent. But this does not eqaute to us thinking we have made it / being confident in our salvation if we continue in a depth of intent of sin / mortal sin.

Example: I am your brother who has bullied and humiliated you your entire life. I then take a bullet for you. Suddenly the past and whatever humiliation I dish out to you in the future is trivial. But what if I had to...rape your wife...kill your baby....?

3. Yes, God loves His enemies. God also loves destroying the wicked. We love the Sharia law Muslims. We also love protecting the weak and having control over our enemy. We put our enemy that we can no longer tolerate in prison immediately. That is what stoning to death points to. I am not implying suffering / torture of any pleases God. People were stoned properly. No small stones. All death was quick / ish and overseen by elders. My point is that God removes the wicked when their sin is full measure. Mortal sinners need to really thank God for each day they are alive!

4. I think people who believe they are saved and can now get away with mortal sins are smoking some spiritual pot ^_^.

You should understand this vernacular KJ unless you are deliberately trying to be equivocal. He was talking about SIN, any and all.
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here but Rom 8:1 is clear, and ALL Christians can have faith in their salvation.
Using equivocation to make your point really doesn't help KJ. You just keep digging this hole deeper and make it more obscure.
No one who is ACTUALLY saved thinks they can get away with ANY sin, but they have to learn what God says IS sin and confess it.

aspen · Apr 1, 2015

Sin loving God and neighbors perfectly. Being a hypocrite is not recognizing the we do so everyday.

Alsett · Apr 6, 2015

I know I'm a bit late on this topic, but I have had some interesting thoughts about this one recently. A LOT of people like to call out Christians with the word hypocrisy. Why? Because it is easy, because in most (maybe all) cases it is true. HOWEVER, it's not just Christians who displays hypocrisy, it comes with practically any belief system. For example: I work in environmental education, so I spend large amounts of my time communicating what things we as people do to harm the environment, and actions that we can take to lessen the effects. Some lifestyle changes are easy, yeah of course I can turn off a light I don't need, or turn off the tap when I am brushing my teeth, buy a reusable bottle to fill with water of course. Then other things are harder, giving up beef and dairy products because the cattle industry is not sustainable.... and I know it isn't just me. Even working my past job at a nature conservancy I saw the other naturalists weren't living their lifestyle as they were telling others. It goes back to the saying "Do as I say, not as I do". Even if we know what is right, in reality whether it is something difficult or we are just being apathetic, we don't really live up to our full potential and that is what makes us hypocrites.

Also, I'm not making excuses, in fact recently I have been making steps to do what I know is right (on both accounts), and calling on the spirit for help, because I can't do it in my own strength.

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Are you a hypocrite?

KingJ

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StanJ

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lforrest

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pom2014

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KingJ

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StanJ

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KingJ

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StanJ

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justaname

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BlackManINC

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KingJ

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StanJ

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aspen

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Alsett

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