Thought I would start a new thread on this subject since it always get a lot of attention. Some things to think about. Did you know:1. The next oldest Christian Church to the RCC is the Orthodox Church. Do they have devotion to Mary? Absolutely!! They make the RCC's devotion look like garbage.2. The very first Chrisian icon (painting) on record is a picture of Mary.3. Martin Luther, even after the Reformation, had a huge devotion to Mary. He believed in the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception, among other things.Remember this folks: Devotion to Mary has gone on for a VERY, VERY LONG TIME. When you honor the Mother of Jesus Christ our Savior, you honor Him.I wonder why Protestants continue to scourge Jesus by spitting on His Mother? I wonder what they are so afraid of......
Mary, Mary quite contrary
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I don't spit on Mary, and I'd like to think that most of us protestants don't. However we don't believe that she was sinless. It is true that she was chosen by God to be the mother of our Lord, Jesus Christ; but he, and he alone, was sinless. She was indeed a very special woman and it is God's decision to choose her that should be held in a place of respect. I've mentioned my feeling on the Catholic practice of talking with the saints and I have the same feeling on Mary. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree.
I go with the proverbial argument of if all of them were jumping off a bridge because some group decided to worship Christ, would you do it too?I really don't ever listen to anything that starts up with the traditions of men. You're free to believe whatever you want, but mystery cults dealing with the feminine have been going on for thousands of years longer than any particular church has been around. The "Queen of Heaven" title has been passed around for some odd 3,000-4,000 years now.I don't rest anything I study on Martin Luther and I don't rest anything I study on any tradition of man. Time and again this kind of thing gets you into trouble. I see you having similar assumptions about being a "Protestant" that some of us have had about being a "Catholic." I personally could care less about names, when you get too far into religion it results always in the mine is better than yours syndrome.
Jon-Marc
New Member
We don't "spit on her". We just don't worship her. She was an instrument that God used to bring His Son into the world, although He could have done it without her. However, Catholics (and apparently some others) place TOO much importance on her. Mary was said to be "blessed above all women" in Luke, but that was because she was to bare the Son of God. She is not the mother of God; she is the mother of Jesus the baby, the boy, the man. She called Jesus Lord. She needed a Saviour like everyone else.
(Jon-Marc;24792)
We don't "spit on her". We just don't worship her. She was an instrument that God used to bring His Son into the world, although He could have done it without her. However, Catholics (and apparently some others) place TOO much importance on her. Mary was said to be "blessed above all women" in Luke, but that was because she was to bare the Son of God. She is not the mother of God; she is the mother of Jesus the baby, the boy, the man. She called Jesus Lord. She needed a Saviour like everyone else.
Who was Jesus? Are you telling me that He wasn't God?
We don't "spit on her". We just don't worship her. She was an instrument that God used to bring His Son into the world, although He could have done it without her. However, Catholics (and apparently some others) place TOO much importance on her. Mary was said to be "blessed above all women" in Luke, but that was because she was to bare the Son of God. She is not the mother of God; she is the mother of Jesus the baby, the boy, the man. She called Jesus Lord. She needed a Saviour like everyone else.
Who was Jesus? Are you telling me that He wasn't God?
(goldy;24882)
(Jon-Marc;24792)
We don't "spit on her". We just don't worship her. She was an instrument that God used to bring His Son into the world, although He could have done it without her. However, Catholics (and apparently some others) place TOO much importance on her. Mary was said to be "blessed above all women" in Luke, but that was because she was to bare the Son of God. She is not the mother of God; she is the mother of Jesus the baby, the boy, the man. She called Jesus Lord. She needed a Saviour like everyone else.
Who was Jesus? Are you telling me that He wasn't God?Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
(Jon-Marc;24792)
We don't "spit on her". We just don't worship her. She was an instrument that God used to bring His Son into the world, although He could have done it without her. However, Catholics (and apparently some others) place TOO much importance on her. Mary was said to be "blessed above all women" in Luke, but that was because she was to bare the Son of God. She is not the mother of God; she is the mother of Jesus the baby, the boy, the man. She called Jesus Lord. She needed a Saviour like everyone else.
Who was Jesus? Are you telling me that He wasn't God?Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
(thesuperjag;24885)
Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
And here we see the other extreme. Mary was important to God's plan, she accepted that role and that choice should be honored for what it is. God's choice of her should be honored for what it is. We shouldn't pray to her, but saying that she wasn't special when God says that she was isn't right either.
Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
And here we see the other extreme. Mary was important to God's plan, she accepted that role and that choice should be honored for what it is. God's choice of her should be honored for what it is. We shouldn't pray to her, but saying that she wasn't special when God says that she was isn't right either.
(thesuperjag;24885)
Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
And here we go again. Who said that we worship Mary? Do you think we place her above God? By the way, I'm still waiting for your answer about where in the bible it calls the RCC or the pope antichrist
Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
And here we go again. Who said that we worship Mary? Do you think we place her above God? By the way, I'm still waiting for your answer about where in the bible it calls the RCC or the pope antichrist
(goldy;24886)
(thesuperjag;24885)
Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
And here we see the other extreme. Mary was important to God's plan, she accepted that role and that choice should be honored for what it is. God's choice of her should be honored for what it is. We shouldn't pray to her, but saying that she wasn't special when God says that she was isn't right either.She is not above women. Nowhere did the bible ever say that she is line up with God in the Godhead. She is blessed among women, but not above women.(goldy;24887)
And here we go again. Who said that we worship Mary? Do you think we place her above God? By the way, I'm still waiting for your answer about where in the bible it calls the RCC or the pope antichrist
Can you prove to me that God made a pope, or can you prove to me that Peter was the first pope?Jag
(thesuperjag;24885)
Nay, he is not saying it. Yahshua's mother is of no importance except for the fact that she gave birth to Him and called Him Lord. We don't worship Mary, nor pray to that sinner. It is blasphemy to the Son and His Father.Jag
And here we see the other extreme. Mary was important to God's plan, she accepted that role and that choice should be honored for what it is. God's choice of her should be honored for what it is. We shouldn't pray to her, but saying that she wasn't special when God says that she was isn't right either.She is not above women. Nowhere did the bible ever say that she is line up with God in the Godhead. She is blessed among women, but not above women.(goldy;24887)
And here we go again. Who said that we worship Mary? Do you think we place her above God? By the way, I'm still waiting for your answer about where in the bible it calls the RCC or the pope antichrist
Can you prove to me that God made a pope, or can you prove to me that Peter was the first pope?Jag
(thesuperjag;24889)
She is not above women. Nowhere did the bible ever say that she is line up with God in the Godhead. She is blessed among women, but not above women.Who said that we line her up with the Godhead? Oh wait, that's just you.Can you prove to me that God made a pope, or can you prove to me that Peter was the first pope?Jag
THAT'S your answer? Are you kidding me? Tell you what Jag, I'll answer this question when you answer my question. I think that's fair since I've asked you more than three times now. By the way, yes, I believe the bible supports Peter as being the first pope. I'll answer when you answer......
She is not above women. Nowhere did the bible ever say that she is line up with God in the Godhead. She is blessed among women, but not above women.Who said that we line her up with the Godhead? Oh wait, that's just you.Can you prove to me that God made a pope, or can you prove to me that Peter was the first pope?Jag
THAT'S your answer? Are you kidding me? Tell you what Jag, I'll answer this question when you answer my question. I think that's fair since I've asked you more than three times now. By the way, yes, I believe the bible supports Peter as being the first pope. I'll answer when you answer......
This is extremely sad. You misquoted me. In fact you added a sentence in the quote to make it look like I said it. I am no interested in bashing people or the churches. In that tone of voice, you won't see an answer from me, since I told you a bit a long time ago.
(thesuperjag;24896)
This is extremely sad. You misquoted me. In fact you added a sentence in the quote to make it look like I said it. I am no interested in bashing people or the churches. In that tone of voice, you won't see an answer from me, since I told you a bit a long time ago.
Please tell me where I misquoted you. Seriously, I really want to know. If I did, I'm sorry. Jag, maybe now you know how I feel when people are constantly misquoting my Catholic faith. Doesn't feel very good does it?
This is extremely sad. You misquoted me. In fact you added a sentence in the quote to make it look like I said it. I am no interested in bashing people or the churches. In that tone of voice, you won't see an answer from me, since I told you a bit a long time ago.
Please tell me where I misquoted you. Seriously, I really want to know. If I did, I'm sorry. Jag, maybe now you know how I feel when people are constantly misquoting my Catholic faith. Doesn't feel very good does it?
If you don't mind goldy I have a question.It seems like much of the structure of the Catholic church is based on the Old Testament Temple. Down to having an area only for the priest, or having the priest act as intercessor for you. Now given that Christ said that He and He alone was our intercessor, how does Catholicism justify this? Its always been my understanding that all of us could pray to God, through Christ, for forgiveness. If we still need a priest to act as an intercessor on our behalf, doesn't that make the crucifixion unnecessary?
(jkdjr25;24923)
If you don't mind goldy I have a question.It seems like much of the structure of the Catholic church is based on the Old Testament Temple. Down to having an area only for the priest, or having the priest act as intercessor for you. Now given that Christ said that He and He alone was our intercessor, how does Catholicism justify this? Its always been my understanding that all of us could pray to God, through Christ, for forgiveness. If we still need a priest to act as an intercessor on our behalf, doesn't that make the crucifixion unnecessary?
Good question. I'll try to give you an analogy with regard to priests. I'll use an analogy for our belief in Confession. Let's say your mother has cancer. You pray and pray for her. She goes into surgery and the doctor performs a masectomy. She is completely cured. Now, God answered your prayers and cured your mother. But he chose to cure your mother through that doctor. Was that doctor taking God's place? Absolutely not!! The doctor was simply an instrument of God's grace. The priest is God's instrument for forgiving sins. He's a "doctor of the soul", and when we go to confession, the doctor of the soul (priest) operates and cures us. It's still God who forgives our sins, but He uses the priest as an instrument. Hope this sheds a little light on this particular Catholic sacrament. But maybe it's clear as mud
If you don't mind goldy I have a question.It seems like much of the structure of the Catholic church is based on the Old Testament Temple. Down to having an area only for the priest, or having the priest act as intercessor for you. Now given that Christ said that He and He alone was our intercessor, how does Catholicism justify this? Its always been my understanding that all of us could pray to God, through Christ, for forgiveness. If we still need a priest to act as an intercessor on our behalf, doesn't that make the crucifixion unnecessary?
Good question. I'll try to give you an analogy with regard to priests. I'll use an analogy for our belief in Confession. Let's say your mother has cancer. You pray and pray for her. She goes into surgery and the doctor performs a masectomy. She is completely cured. Now, God answered your prayers and cured your mother. But he chose to cure your mother through that doctor. Was that doctor taking God's place? Absolutely not!! The doctor was simply an instrument of God's grace. The priest is God's instrument for forgiving sins. He's a "doctor of the soul", and when we go to confession, the doctor of the soul (priest) operates and cures us. It's still God who forgives our sins, but He uses the priest as an instrument. Hope this sheds a little light on this particular Catholic sacrament. But maybe it's clear as mud
(Denver;24774)
I go with the proverbial argument of if all of them were jumping off a bridge because some group decided to worship Christ, would you do it too?I really don't ever listen to anything that starts up with the traditions of men. You're free to believe whatever you want, but mystery cults dealing with the feminine have been going on for thousands of years longer than any particular church has been around. The "Queen of Heaven" title has been passed around for some odd 3,000-4,000 years now.I don't rest anything I study on Martin Luther and I don't rest anything I study on any tradition of man. Time and again this kind of thing gets you into trouble. I see you having similar assumptions about being a "Protestant" that some of us have had about being a "Catholic." I personally could care less about names, when you get too far into religion it results always in the mine is better than yours syndrome.
Could you please explain to me how honoring the Mother of God (Jesus Christ) translates to a mystery cult dealing with the feminine? And I believe that when you get too far into the bible ALONE, this also results in the "my translation is better than your translation" syndrome.
I go with the proverbial argument of if all of them were jumping off a bridge because some group decided to worship Christ, would you do it too?I really don't ever listen to anything that starts up with the traditions of men. You're free to believe whatever you want, but mystery cults dealing with the feminine have been going on for thousands of years longer than any particular church has been around. The "Queen of Heaven" title has been passed around for some odd 3,000-4,000 years now.I don't rest anything I study on Martin Luther and I don't rest anything I study on any tradition of man. Time and again this kind of thing gets you into trouble. I see you having similar assumptions about being a "Protestant" that some of us have had about being a "Catholic." I personally could care less about names, when you get too far into religion it results always in the mine is better than yours syndrome.
Could you please explain to me how honoring the Mother of God (Jesus Christ) translates to a mystery cult dealing with the feminine? And I believe that when you get too far into the bible ALONE, this also results in the "my translation is better than your translation" syndrome.
(goldy;24928)
Good question. I'll try to give you an analogy with regard to priests. I'll use an analogy for our belief in Confession. Let's say your mother has cancer. You pray and pray for her. She goes into surgery and the doctor performs a masectomy. She is completely cured. Now, God answered your prayers and cured your mother. But he chose to cure your mother through that doctor. Was that doctor taking God's place? Absolutely not!! The doctor was simply an instrument of God's grace. The priest is God's instrument for forgiving sins. He's a "doctor of the soul", and when we go to confession, the doctor of the soul (priest) operates and cures us. It's still God who forgives our sins, but He uses the priest as an instrument. Hope this sheds a little light on this particular Catholic sacrament. But maybe it's clear as mud
I think I understand. Though, admittedly, I do disagree. From the protestant perspective we believe that Christ is the High Priest, Shepherd and Bridegroom of the Church. We no longer need the earthly high priest, as was the case in the Old Testament, because we can go directly to Christ Himself through our own prayers. In other words we pray to Christ to confess our sins because He is the only intercessor.
Good question. I'll try to give you an analogy with regard to priests. I'll use an analogy for our belief in Confession. Let's say your mother has cancer. You pray and pray for her. She goes into surgery and the doctor performs a masectomy. She is completely cured. Now, God answered your prayers and cured your mother. But he chose to cure your mother through that doctor. Was that doctor taking God's place? Absolutely not!! The doctor was simply an instrument of God's grace. The priest is God's instrument for forgiving sins. He's a "doctor of the soul", and when we go to confession, the doctor of the soul (priest) operates and cures us. It's still God who forgives our sins, but He uses the priest as an instrument. Hope this sheds a little light on this particular Catholic sacrament. But maybe it's clear as mud
I think I understand. Though, admittedly, I do disagree. From the protestant perspective we believe that Christ is the High Priest, Shepherd and Bridegroom of the Church. We no longer need the earthly high priest, as was the case in the Old Testament, because we can go directly to Christ Himself through our own prayers. In other words we pray to Christ to confess our sins because He is the only intercessor.
(jkdjr25;24945)
I think I understand. Though, admittedly, I do disagree. From the protestant perspective we believe that Christ is the High Priest, Shepherd and Bridegroom of the Church. We no longer need the earthly high priest, as was the case in the Old Testament, because we can go directly to Christ Himself through our own prayers. In other words we pray to Christ to confess our sins because He is the only intercessor.
Well look, I'm not going to try to beat you over the head with this thing. I'll just say this: If you look back in the bible, God worked His grace through people. He spoke through Moses, Isaiah, Noah, Jeremiah, Daniel, etc. This isn't to say that priests are prophets or anything like that. They are sinners just like you and me. But God doesn't just drop down on a cloud and tell us that our sins are forgiven......at least He doesn't do that with me He works His grace through other people. Why? I haven't a clue.Hey, let's face it.......It's easy to just say a quick, private prayer asking God to forgive us. It's much more difficult and uncomfortable to confess our sins to someone else. But oh the feeling you have when you come out of that confessional!!Some bible verses to reflect on regarding confession: Jn.20:23, Jn.20:22 (recall Genesis 2:7), 2 Cor.5:17-20, James 5:13-15, James5:16, Mt.18:18. Just FYI: If you reply to this, I won't get back to you until tomorrow. I'm getting ready to leave the school I teach at. Have a good one
I think I understand. Though, admittedly, I do disagree. From the protestant perspective we believe that Christ is the High Priest, Shepherd and Bridegroom of the Church. We no longer need the earthly high priest, as was the case in the Old Testament, because we can go directly to Christ Himself through our own prayers. In other words we pray to Christ to confess our sins because He is the only intercessor.
Well look, I'm not going to try to beat you over the head with this thing. I'll just say this: If you look back in the bible, God worked His grace through people. He spoke through Moses, Isaiah, Noah, Jeremiah, Daniel, etc. This isn't to say that priests are prophets or anything like that. They are sinners just like you and me. But God doesn't just drop down on a cloud and tell us that our sins are forgiven......at least He doesn't do that with me
He works His grace through other people. Why? I haven't a clue.Hey, let's face it.......It's easy to just say a quick, private prayer asking God to forgive us. It's much more difficult and uncomfortable to confess our sins to someone else. But oh the feeling you have when you come out of that confessional!!Some bible verses to reflect on regarding confession: Jn.20:23, Jn.20:22 (recall Genesis 2:7), 2 Cor.5:17-20, James 5:13-15, James5:16, Mt.18:18. Just FYI: If you reply to this, I won't get back to you until tomorrow. I'm getting ready to leave the school I teach at. Have a good oneHey everybodyGoldy take it easy there with Superjag, he may be acting intolerant but don't be intolerant towards him. " turn the other cheek"second off that doctor explanation for confession was extremley good, do you mind if I use it.and Superjag have you been listening to anything Me and Goldy have been saying the last week. WE DON"T WORSHIP MARY!!!! and I'm sorry if you disagree with us , but stop trying to condemn us for it.
(Letsgofishing;24970)
Hey everybodyGoldy take it easy there with Superjag, he may be acting intolerant but don't be intolerant towards him. " turn the other cheek"second off that doctor explanation for confession was extremley good, do you mind if I use it.and Superjag have you been listening to anything Me and Goldy have been saying the last week. WE DON"T WORSHIP MARY!!!! and I'm sorry if you disagree with us , but stop trying to condemn us for it.
Have at it bro.....
Hey everybodyGoldy take it easy there with Superjag, he may be acting intolerant but don't be intolerant towards him. " turn the other cheek"second off that doctor explanation for confession was extremley good, do you mind if I use it.and Superjag have you been listening to anything Me and Goldy have been saying the last week. WE DON"T WORSHIP MARY!!!! and I'm sorry if you disagree with us , but stop trying to condemn us for it.
Have at it bro.....
(Letsgofishing;24970)
Hey everybodyGoldy take it easy there with Superjag, he may be acting intolerant but don't be intolerant towards him. " turn the other cheek"second off that doctor explanation for confession was extremley good, do you mind if I use it.and Superjag have you been listening to anything Me and Goldy have been saying the last week. WE DON"T WORSHIP MARY!!!! and I'm sorry if you disagree with us , but stop trying to condemn us for it.
Who said I was condemning you guys? I only condemn doctrines that does not line up with YHWH and Yahshua's words...like I said If the doctrine is not match up with the Word of God, it is not of God. For God is not the author of confusions.
Hey everybodyGoldy take it easy there with Superjag, he may be acting intolerant but don't be intolerant towards him. " turn the other cheek"second off that doctor explanation for confession was extremley good, do you mind if I use it.and Superjag have you been listening to anything Me and Goldy have been saying the last week. WE DON"T WORSHIP MARY!!!! and I'm sorry if you disagree with us , but stop trying to condemn us for it.
Who said I was condemning you guys? I only condemn doctrines that does not line up with YHWH and Yahshua's words...like I said If the doctrine is not match up with the Word of God, it is not of God. For God is not the author of confusions.
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