Mary, Mary quite contrary

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Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(Letsgofishing;25079)
I am not saying that nothing good comes out of debate.In case you couldn't tell I love debating. There just comes to a point where debating turns to seperation and that is not what we want.If you could pray for me that I do find the truth, as that wouldn't hurt either of us.But weve been debating the same thing with the same points for the last 6 pages and we really haven't gotten much out of it except for seperation.I feel like weve gotten off on the wrong page Jag.I'm not catholic and your not protestantwe are both christians, and we are both brothers.can we start treating each other as brothers instead of all this bickeringYour brotherRyan Fitz
In Green, you know I will pray for you, may I have your first name?In Yellow, I treat everybody with scriptures...as I know there are people here that wants the Truth. I love you, and always will be. But I'm not going to back down on saying Truth...for Christ is the only way to Heaven. (John 14:6) I still love you.
 

Letsgofishing

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Ryan FitzEverybody in this world calls me Fitz.I have no idea what God calls me.he has a habit of changing whoever he talks to name.Abram to AbrahamSimeon to Peter ect.ect.ectand I am open to the truth lets put my devotion to praying to the saints this way.I don't go by catholic teachings. I think its dumb to follow the pope on all your christian decisions. I am very much my own christianityWhich means that God has shown me the power of the saintsI have seen visions of st. peter and saint Mary and both stopped me from doing my darkest sin. Both have brought me closer to God.When My Grandmother Got hit by a stroke she was rushed straight to the emergency room. and I immediantly prayed the rosary asking Mary to be with her.The next day Grandmother took Christ in her life.She became a christian.I could go on but you see the point. I have reason for the things I believe not just catholic superstition. I don't follow the doctrines of men.I follow the doctrines of men inspired by God which I know to be right.I don't agree with the catholic church on everything but I know this to be right.
 

goldy

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If Peter was the first pope, then why don't the pope or priests marry? Peter was married since it mentions his mother-in-law in Matthew 8:14.And, yes, Jesus is God, but that still does not make her the mother of God, but a woman who was blessed among all women because of bearing the son of God.
The priests and the pope are already married......They are married to the Church. When a priest is ordained you will often times hear him refer to it as his "wedding day". What does it mean to be married? It means that you give your heart and soul to something/somebody each and everyday......just like I try to do with my wife (although she may not always agree with my statement!!). Priests not marrying is a Church discipline. If you see what a priest does on a daily basis, you would understand that it's impossible to be married to another woman.Regarding Mary, I'm still perplexed that you can't say that Mary is the Mother of God. Could it be that you simply think that giving her this title will automatically put her above God?
 

For Life

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Regarding Mary, I'm still perplexed that you can't say that Mary is the Mother of God. Could it be that you simply think that giving her this title will automatically put her above God?
It would put her as equal with God, and this isn't true. I don't think there is anything wrong with honoring Mary or Moses or Noah or the apostles but they are not equal with God. I'm not 100% sure if it is a sin to pray for intercession by a saint or by Mary but it sure would make me nervous.
 

Letsgofishing

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How is calling Mary the mother of God putting her equal with god. i don't get your reasoning. I mean she gave birth to him!!!!wouldn't that be enough to be called his mother. This does not mean that she is equal to God. it doesn't even apply this.All it means is that God honored her by making her the bearer of our savior.
 

goldy

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This is not honoring Mary, this is blasphemy goldy. This is my fellow greek people's god. In every house in every store you enter you see this picture. Great almighty Mary and liiittle baby Jesus. More than a hundred Orthodox chapels and churches are named after Mary. They pray to her as if she can hear their prayer and mediate to God. Now don't tell me this is not the case with the Catholic church because that is where the Orthodox came. They were once one church, and lately they are trying to achieve unity again.Let me mention some verses and see what place had Mary in Jesus's life. It's as if the bible had foreseen this herecy coming and makes these references concerning the relationship between Mary and Jesus, which is in NO WAY relationship between mother and child so that someone would dare to say that a human gave birth to God. Jesus made Mary, not the other way around, simple as that.First of all the fact that Mary had children is UNQUESTIONABLE just by reading Mat. 1:9. Second, Jesus calls Mary woman and states that has no special relation to her whatsoever in John 2:4. Third reference that we can see who Jesus calls family, is mentioned in more than one Gospels, but I'll just mention Mat. 12:46. Lastly there is a reference in Luke 11:27 which clearly states that whoever hears the word of God, and keeps it, is more blessed (this is not the word in the greek text, but it's the best rendering) than Mary, exactly as He said in the same Luke 7:28 about John the baptist, that "he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.". Should I dare to say that if you and I hear the word of God, and keep it are more blessed than Mary? Jesus says it is so.Having said all these, I by no means think of Mary less than what she was, a blessed woman of her time in Israel, that was chosen to deliver the body and flesh for Jesus to walk on this earth as human. She was a tool, an instrument, a "vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use". Just as were Noah and Moses. Nothing more, nothing less.Praise our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen."
Oh man, you're gonna have to come stronger than that!! Do you know what I see here? I see a beautiful picture of a woman holding a baby. What? Just because it's big, this equates to someone worshipping Mary? Give me a break.....
 

goldy

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It would put her as equal with God, and this isn't true. I don't think there is anything wrong with honoring Mary or Moses or Noah or the apostles but they are not equal with God. I'm not 100% sure if it is a sin to pray for intercession by a saint or by Mary but it sure would make me nervous.
We never said she was equal to God. We honor her, plain and simple....
 

goldy

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Hi goldy,What is the definition of "anti-christ"? It means "instead of Christ".So if you go to prayer to anyone else instead of Jesus since He is the only Mediator between us and the Father... how does that not make Mary the "anti-christ"?Going to Letsgofishing and asking him to pray with you is not the same thing as going to Mary to "pray" to her. In other words, when you go to Letsgofishing, you are not "praying" to him... you are asking him to pray with you. So you can't use that anology of going to the living on this planet to pray for you as if that is the same as going in "prayer" to Mary in the spiritual realm to get to God for it is not the same thing. When anyone else pray anywhere in the world, where are their prayers directed to? Their gods. If you want the world to identify you as a believer in Jesus being the Son of God then pray to Jesus. And that title.. Queen of Heaven, has been in the world before Mary. To stand apart from the world, no way would God allow Mary to be dignified in that manner... and no way would God allow Mary to be placed in that position to cause believers to go astray after the "Queen of Heaven" which is of the world to be identified with the world.If you are going to address God in the Heavenly realm, then you have to go through the One God sent: Jesus Christ. If you go to Mary, then by definition of the anti-christ... you are making "her" the anti-christ, because you are going to her "instead of Christ". You want to talk to God? Then you honor His Son by going to Jesus in prayer.You really think Mary would mind it that you "just" go to the Saviour in prayer only? I think not. So why not abstain from all appearances of evil and just go to Jesus in prayer for it is by Him, we can pray to the Father. Why add more run arounds with Mary and the other saints? That is like bearing witness that your relationship with the Saviour is not very personal or close that you do not feel freely to come to Him. You may say otherwise, but by your practise alone, it does beg to differ. For Someone that gave up His life for you, I would think that would warrant far more attention than someone else that did not die for you or prove their love for you.Nowhere has there been any invitation to anyone else except to Jesus. To go to anyone else for anything for which Jesus is for, Mary for prayer or the RCC for the salvation, then you are doing so "instead of Christ".Oh.. and before you deny that the RCC never said salvation can be obtained through them... your catechism is here saying otherwise.... "The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: 'For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.'" Pg. 215, #816 "...all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation..." Pg. 224, #8461From article "Pope Meets with Youth of Various Christian Confessions," Vatican City, 5/7/01 (VIS) reported by the Catholic Information Network, 5/9/01, N. 86 At the Greek-Melkite Cathedral of Damascus on May 7, 2001, Pope John Paul II told 2,000 youth gathered that... Only God can redeem you as His. Nothing else. That is His glory alone.Thus going to the RCC for salvation instead of Christ is the same as going to Mary for prayer instead of Christ, thus making the RCC and Mary the anti-christs by your actions.Jesus said that all those that come before Him are thieves and robbers. So.. not only are the practises of the RCC and Mary are coming before Christ robbing Him of His glory as Saviour and as the only Mediator between God and man, but by doing so... it is "instead of Christ".So.... giving attributes of the Son of God to the RCC for salvation or to Mary for mediation AND going to them instead of Christ would pretty much fulfill the qualification of an "anti-christ". I am sure the real Mary would not feel so "honored".
Pariah, I've alluded to this before but I'll repeat myself. Have you ever prayed for someone? If so, aren't you acting as a MEDIATOR between that person and God? So why can't Mary, who is fully alive and radiant in heaven, pray for us? Are you afraid that's going to take something away from our love of Christ?Secondly, if the RCC EVER taught to place Mary above God, I would leave it tomorrow.
 

Terral

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Dec 3, 2007
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Hi Goldy:
Goldy >> Thought I would start a new thread on this subject since it always get a lot of attention. Some things to think about. Did you know:1. The next oldest Christian Church to the RCC is the Orthodox Church. Do they have devotion to Mary? Absolutely!! They make the RCC's devotion look like garbage.
By “Orthodox Church,” you mean the “Greek Orthodox Church” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Church) that mirrors the Roman Catholic form of Denominationalism in many ways. Mariolatry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariolatry) is a form of Paganism based upon the worship of Diana (Roman) and Aphrodite (Greek) the goddesses of love and fertility from Roman and Greek Mythology. The entire concept of “devotion to Mary” is based upon nothing more than Paganism and the early churches inviting pagans to join them in man-made rituals.
Goldy >> 2. The very first Chrisian icon (painting) on record is a picture of Mary.
Mary sits beside Diana and Aphrodite and the RC goddess of love of fertility part of modern day Denominationalism where the god of this world is blinding the minds of the unbelieving (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) into replacing heavenly principals and teachings with earthy counterfeits.
Goldy >> 3. Martin Luther, even after the Reformation, had a huge devotion to Mary. He believed in the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception, among other things.
There is no mention of Martin Luther anywhere in my Bible, which finds Goldy pushing just one form of Denominationalism adopted by men under the ‘deluding influence’ (2 Thessalonians 2:11) and the ‘mystery of iniquity’ (2 Thessalonians 2:7). The importance of Mary to the “Body of Christ” can be weighed by the number of times Paul mentions her in all of his Epistles combined. Just how many times does Paul make mention of Mary in Scripture? ZERO.
Goldy >> Remember this folks: Devotion to Mary has gone on for a VERY, VERY LONG TIME. When you honor the Mother of Jesus Christ our Savior, you honor Him.
The mystery of iniquity was at work in Paul’s day, as devotion to mere men and women has NOTHING whatsoever to do with honoring God or His Living Word. Jesus Christ is Lord and God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9) on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:3-4) for the forgiveness of our sins (Ephesians 1:7) and everyone believing our Gospel, but Mary has NOTHING to do with our lives hidden with Christ IN God (Colossians 3:1-3). Our prayers are made to God Himself ‘through’ our Lord Jesus Christ, as the “one Mediator between God and men” (1 Timothy 2:5) having NOTHING to do with Mary at all. Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and Mary is a mere “bondslave” (Luke 1:48) very much “blessed AMONG WOMEN” (Luke 1:42) as the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7) helper bearing the ‘image of man’ (1 Corinthians 11:7). Jesus Christ was NOT conceived of Mary at all, but was conceived “of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 1:20) “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Philippians 2:8) as the “Son OF GOD.” Goldy is attempting to replace the Holy Spirit with the earthy image of a woman, as if the Son of God is the “son of Mary” representing just one stumbling block cast in the path of the members of Christ’s body in the world today.In Christ Jesus,Terral
 

goldy

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Hi Goldy:By “Orthodox Church,” you mean the “Greek Orthodox Church” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Church) that mirrors the Roman Catholic form of Denominationalism in many ways. Mariolatry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariolatry) is a form of Paganism based upon the worship of Diana (Roman) and Aphrodite (Greek) the goddesses of love and fertility from Roman and Greek Mythology. The entire concept of “devotion to Mary” is based upon nothing more than Paganism and the early churches inviting pagans to join them in man-made rituals.Mary sits beside Diana and Aphrodite and the RC goddess of love of fertility part of modern day Denominationalism where the god of this world is blinding the minds of the unbelieving (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) into replacing heavenly principals and teachings with earthy counterfeits.There is no mention of Martin Luther anywhere in my Bible, which finds Goldy pushing just one form of Denominationalism adopted by men under the ‘deluding influence’ (2 Thessalonians 2:11) and the ‘mystery of iniquity’ (2 Thessalonians 2:7). The importance of Mary to the “Body of Christ” can be weighed by the number of times Paul mentions her in all of his Epistles combined. Just how many times does Paul make mention of Mary in Scripture? ZERO.The mystery of iniquity was at work in Paul’s day, as devotion to mere men and women has NOTHING whatsoever to do with honoring God or His Living Word. Jesus Christ is Lord and God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9) on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:3-4) for the forgiveness of our sins (Ephesians 1:7) and everyone believing our Gospel, but Mary has NOTHING to do with our lives hidden with Christ IN God (Colossians 3:1-3). Our prayers are made to God Himself ‘through’ our Lord Jesus Christ, as the “one Mediator between God and men” (1 Timothy 2:5) having NOTHING to do with Mary at all. Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and Mary is a mere “bondslave” (Luke 1:48) very much “blessed AMONG WOMEN” (Luke 1:42) as the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7) helper bearing the ‘image of man’ (1 Corinthians 11:7). Jesus Christ was NOT conceived of Mary at all, but was conceived “of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 1:20) “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Philippians 2:8) as the “Son OF GOD.” Goldy is attempting to replace the Holy Spirit with the earthy image of a woman, as if the Son of God is the “son of Mary” representing just one stumbling block cast in the path of the members of Christ’s body in the world today.In Christ Jesus,Terral
Simple question: Can someone bring you closer to Christ?1. Just because St. Paul doesn't mention her in the bible doesn't mean she isn't important. She is mentioned more than any other woman in the Gospels. Your point?2. I mentioned Martin Luther to make a point that even the founder of the Protestant Reformation (first Christian schism) had a great devotion to Mary and believed a lot of things about her that non-Catholic Christians would stone him for today.3. Sorry dude, but some of your interpretations are loopy. You don't have to agree with me honoring Mary. Could really care less. 4. How do YOU know that I'm replacing the Holy Spirit with Mary? Are you God? Can you read my heart?
 

goldy

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A couple of other practical things to think about:1. If I thought my friend Billy Bob was bringing me closer to Christ, I would love Billy Bob that much more and hang out with the guy all the time. After all, the guy's bringing me closer to Christ!! Do you all follow me here?2. I heard ths analogy about Mary once from a Catholic apologist. Let's say you're deeply in love with someone and you want to spend the rest of your life with that person. This is what you say to that person: "I love you more than life itself. I want to devote my whole life to you. HOWEVER, I don't want to have anything to do with your mom, your dad, your brothers and sisters, or anyone else in your family. I just want to focus on you and only you." How do you think that person would feel? What if any of you said that to your spouse? In much the same way, this is how many non-Catholic Christians view Mary and the saints. Don't you guys see that when we honor Mary and the saints, we are GIVING MORE GLORY TO CHRIST!!!!!!! Please tell me how that is a bad thing?3. Finally from a personal perspective, since I truly began honoring Mary about five years ago, I feel infinitely closer to Christ. Can anyone here explain that to me? I have asked this question several times, and yet I still haven't received an answer.
 

Pariah

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Hi goldy,
Secondly, if the RCC EVER taught to place Mary above God, I would leave it tomorrow.
What about beside God? Deuteronomy 4:34Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? 35Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. 36Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.Jesus was referring to all those they would place before Him or beside Him as if to get to Him... you can go to them. He instructs you and He guides you and He speaks to you so.. speak to God. Mary is not God and doing so is the same as the practise of speaking to the dead. Oh, I know.. I know.. Mary is not really dead, but then the sinful practise are speaking to the dead to their spirits as if they are alive so.... why sin? If you want to talk to God.. then talk to Jesus or the Father. For there is no one beside them... in order for you to talk to God. You want to hear His voice, then speak to Him. You want to relate to God, then relate to God. Otherwise, He will say that He does not know you because you did not heed His sayings and build on that relationship with Him because you are engaging in practises of inqiuity.Better to be safe then sorry, goldy.... repent and strive ye to enter through that straight gate... Jesus Christ... for He is the only Way to the Father. He is the only Way to God.
 

Pariah

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Hi goldy,
Simple question: Can someone bring you closer to Christ?
John 6: 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.... 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 1 Corinthians 3: 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.So then who is Mary? She is not anything in the workings of God. God the Father drew you unto the Son, so relate to God through the Son.John 6: 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. So only God can do the work of God, and Mary has nothing to do with things that only God can do. God brought you closer to God by drawing you to the Son. Either you relate to God through Him Whom He has sent, or you are not relating to Him at all. To do what you are doing is like an engaged bride dating all the friends and family of the bridegroom.... "instead of" dating the bridegroom. tsk tsk tsk...Time to repent, goldy. You can do no wrong by going to Jesus only. It is by Him we can pray to the Father. You are not breaking any commandment if you do that, but if you do your thing, you are breaking His commandments which are His invitations to Himself.May the Lord deliver you soon. Amen.
 

goldy

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Hi goldy,What about beside God? Deuteronomy 4:34Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? 35Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. 36Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.Jesus was referring to all those they would place before Him or beside Him as if to get to Him... you can go to them. He instructs you and He guides you and He speaks to you so.. speak to God. Mary is not God and doing so is the same as the practise of speaking to the dead. Oh, I know.. I know.. Mary is not really dead, but then the sinful practise are speaking to the dead to their spirits as if they are alive so.... why sin? If you want to talk to God.. then talk to Jesus or the Father. For there is no one beside them... in order for you to talk to God. You want to hear His voice, then speak to Him. You want to relate to God, then relate to God. Otherwise, He will say that He does not know you because you did not heed His sayings and build on that relationship with Him because you are engaging in practises of inqiuity.Better to be safe then sorry, goldy.... repent and strive ye to enter through that straight gate... Jesus Christ... for He is the only Way to the Father. He is the only Way to God.
Maybe you should repent for bashing the Catholic Church so often. Besides, you're just being judgmental at this point.
 

goldy

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Hi goldy,John 6: 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.... 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 1 Corinthians 3: 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.So then who is Mary? She is not anything in the workings of God. God the Father drew you unto the Son, so relate to God through the Son.John 6: 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. So only God can do the work of God, and Mary has nothing to do with things that only God can do. God brought you closer to God by drawing you to the Son. Either you relate to God through Him Whom He has sent, or you are not relating to Him at all. To do what you are doing is like an engaged bride dating all the friends and family of the bridegroom.... "instead of" dating the bridegroom. tsk tsk tsk...Time to repent, goldy. You can do no wrong by going to Jesus only. It is by Him we can pray to the Father. You are not breaking any commandment if you do that, but if you do your thing, you are breaking His commandments which are His invitations to Himself.May the Lord deliver you soon. Amen.
Silly Pariah, you never answered the question. Can another person bring you closer to Christ? Yes or no? It's really a pretty simple question.By the way, I go to Jesus all the time in prayer. Why are you so afraid of Mary, Pariah?
 

Pariah

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goldy,
Maybe you should repent for bashing the Catholic Church so often. Besides, you're just being judgmental at this point.
How can I not,when scriptures declare the Catholic Church is really bashing my faith in Christ Jesus? Aren't the Catholic Church being judgmental of everyone outside their "Church"? So who really is throwing the first stone? The RCC at the faith in Jesus.
 

Pariah

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goldy,
Silly Pariah, you never answered the question. Can another person bring you closer to Christ? Yes or no? It's really a pretty simple question.
I did answer the question. I wasn't speaking in parables. If I said "no", you would then insist on how I came to believe that.... so there you are: scriptures, explaining "no".But if you are really having a hard time understanding my answer, then consider this. Unless the Lord cause the increase, you can't help anyone in their walk with Jesus. So when He does cause the increase to help someone in their walk with Jesus, it still isn't YOU. All the words from your mouth would be what God would cause the increase. From the Father.Matthew 10: 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.You just serve Him. You are not doing His Work for Him. That is why His yoke is easy and His burden is light because God will do His work in us and through us as we trust Him to, thus the just shall live by faith.
By the way, I go to Jesus all the time in prayer. Why are you so afraid of Mary, Pariah?
Now that can't be a true statement, goldy, if you go to Mary once in prayer. I am sure you were not lying when you posted that. You, more than likely, misquoted yourself, but that first part of that statement is not true if you pray to Jesus all the time, but prayed to Mary even once.Afraid of Mary? By the grace of God, I fear God enough to listen to His voice and heed His sayings for they are for my good in Him. So why do you not fear God enough to heed His sayings so as to be found abiding in Him? Is it because you are in works that deny Him and thus no longer under grace? Is that really resting from your labours as God did from His when you do the works of catholicism? So where is His glory as Saviour? Just in title only? Looks that way in catholicism.I'm glad that by the grace of God, I believe in the simplicity of the Gospel to have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, the Lord.And you are preaching something else. Not Him nor the simplicity of the Gospel.
 

Terral

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Hi Goldy:If you have no defending arguments to support your original Mariolatry proposals, then simply come out and say so. To quote my entire post and offer these questions proves beyond all doubt that Goldy had no support for his Opening Post hypothesis in the first place.
Goldy >> Simple question: Can someone bring you closer to Christ?
No sir. I was “sealed IN Him” (Ephesians 1:13) by the Holy Spirit upon hearing (Romans 10:17) and believing the Gospel like every member of Christ’s body (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). And “No.” Nobody can pull the wool over my eyes concerning your Mary worship . . .
Goldy >> 1. Just because St. Paul doesn't mention her in the bible doesn't mean she isn't important. She is mentioned more than any other woman in the Gospels. Your point?
My point? :0) My arguments against your Mary worship are standing unanswered in Post #49 of this thread, but Goldy has no reply. The point is that Paul specifically says,
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only? If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I WRITE TO YOU are the Lord's commandment. But if anyone [that means you too] does not recognize this, he is NOT recognized.” 1Corinthians 14:34-38.
Here we have the Lord’s Commandment saying that women are NOT permitted to speak in the called out assembly, but are to subject themselves, but Goldy wants the Body of Christ to worship a woman commanded to ‘keep silent in the churches.’ Man has the ‘image and glory OF GOD,’ while the woman has the ‘image of man’ (1 Corinthians 11:7), but Goldy is teaching men and women alike to worship a woman from Scripture; as if any woman on earth could possible be the “MOTHER OF GOD.” :0) My points on Roman Catholic Paganism appear in Post #49 should Goldy every gather the courage to offer a serious reply, but this side is not holding his breath . . .
Goldy >> 2. I mentioned Martin Luther to make a point that even the founder of the Protestant Reformation (first Christian schism) had a great devotion to Mary and believed a lot of things about her that non-Catholic Christians would stone him for today.
So what? Martin Luther has must as much right to be wrong as anyone here. God’s Living Word has nothing from Martin Luther or any of your dead RC fathers blinded by Roman or Greek Paganism working in the Denominations even today. None of your work on this thread has any Scriptural support, because the Mariolatry you teach is not Scriptural. Period. Goldy is wise to begin focusing more attention on what God does say through His Word apart from Pagan MYTHS with no Scriptural basis at all.
Goldy >> 3. Sorry dude, but some of your interpretations are loopy. You don't have to agree with me honoring Mary.
Please forgive, but those deceived into worshipping Mary are not even paying attention and much too far from the Body of Christ lifeboat to receive any lifeline from me.
Goldy >> Could really care less.
Really? Congratulations! This side of the debate could ‘not’ really care less . . . Only the very weak and feeble can be led astray by delusions of worshipping Mary as the Mother of God, so carry on with your work of thinning out the herd.
Quote Goldy >> 4. How do YOU know that I'm replacing the Holy Spirit with Mary? Are you God? Can you read my heart?
I have been debating these Bible Topics with scholars around the world since before many of you were born and have spent years and years working inside the Roman Catholic Church and other misguided denominations under the power of the ‘deluding influence’ (2 Thessalonians 2:11). While I respect your right to spread this Mariolatry nonsense everywhere, if these moderators allow, we also have the right to express our opposing views the very same way. Right? The simple truth is that even worshipping the Holy Spirit as “The Almighty” (Revelation 1:8) is dead wrong, because He is the ‘water witness’ of “The Word” (John 1:2) in the F+S+HS triune mystery set. The three witnesses of “The Almighty” appear with Him as God To Come (spirit witness), God Who Is (blood witness) and God Who Was (water witness) in Revelation 1:8 and Goldy certainly does not begin to know the difference. Even “God Who Was” is the water witness for The Almighty in the exact pattern of the Holy Spirit testifying for The Word, but Goldy wishes to worship Mary the water witness of Joseph. :0) Please try to support your Mariolatry from God’s Word to realize that kind of worship of a mere woman has no basis in Scripture whatsoever. None. Worship God! Revelation 22:9.In Christ Jesus,Terral
 

goldy

New Member
Nov 6, 2007
204
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(Pariah;25140)
goldy,I did answer the question. I wasn't speaking in parables. If I said "no", you would then insist on how I came to believe that.... so there you are: scriptures, explaining "no".But if you are really having a hard time understanding my answer, then consider this. Unless the Lord cause the increase, you can't help anyone in their walk with Jesus. So when He does cause the increase to help someone in their walk with Jesus, it still isn't YOU. All the words from your mouth would be what God would cause the increase. From the Father.Matthew 10: 17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.You just serve Him. You are not doing His Work for Him. That is why His yoke is easy and His burden is light because God will do His work in us and through us as we trust Him to, thus the just shall live by faith.Now that can't be a true statement, goldy, if you go to Mary once in prayer. I am sure you were not lying when you posted that. You, more than likely, misquoted yourself, but that first part of that statement is not true if you pray to Jesus all the time, but prayed to Mary even once.Afraid of Mary? By the grace of God, I fear God enough to listen to His voice and heed His sayings for they are for my good in Him. So why do you not fear God enough to heed His sayings so as to be found abiding in Him? Is it because you are in works that deny Him and thus no longer under grace? Is that really resting from your labours as God did from His when you do the works of catholicism? So where is His glory as Saviour? Just in title only? Looks that way in catholicism.I'm glad that by the grace of God, I believe in the simplicity of the Gospel to have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, the Lord.And you are preaching something else. Not Him nor the simplicity of the Gospel.
BINGO!!! Great job Pariah, I knew you had it in you. God works THROUGH MARY to bring others to His Son Jesus Christ. You said it yourself in your second paragraph of this post. By the way, I'm still looking for someone who can explain to me why I'm closer to Christ now since I've developed a strong devotion to His Mother. Any takers?
 

goldy

New Member
Nov 6, 2007
204
0
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49
(Terral;25147)
Hi Goldy:If you have no defending arguments to support your original Mariolatry proposals, then simply come out and say so. To quote my entire post and offer these questions proves beyond all doubt that Goldy had no support for his Opening Post hypothesis in the first place. No sir. I was “sealed IN Him” (Ephesians 1:13) by the Holy Spirit upon hearing (Romans 10:17) and believing the Gospel like every member of Christ’s body (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). And “No.” Nobody can pull the wool over my eyes concerning your Mary worship . . . My point? :0) My arguments against your Mary worship are standing unanswered in Post #49 of this thread, but Goldy has no reply. The point is that Paul specifically says, Here we have the Lord’s Commandment saying that women are NOT permitted to speak in the called out assembly, but are to subject themselves, but Goldy wants the Body of Christ to worship a woman commanded to ‘keep silent in the churches.’ Man has the ‘image and glory OF GOD,’ while the woman has the ‘image of man’ (1 Corinthians 11:7), but Goldy is teaching men and women alike to worship a woman from Scripture; as if any woman on earth could possible be the “MOTHER OF GOD.” :0) My points on Roman Catholic Paganism appear in Post #49 should Goldy every gather the courage to offer a serious reply, but this side is not holding his breath . . . So what? Martin Luther has must as much right to be wrong as anyone here. God’s Living Word has nothing from Martin Luther or any of your dead RC fathers blinded by Roman or Greek Paganism working in the Denominations even today. None of your work on this thread has any Scriptural support, because the Mariolatry you teach is not Scriptural. Period. Goldy is wise to begin focusing more attention on what God does say through His Word apart from Pagan MYTHS with no Scriptural basis at all. Please forgive, but those deceived into worshipping Mary are not even paying attention and much too far from the Body of Christ lifeboat to receive any lifeline from me. Really? Congratulations! This side of the debate could ‘not’ really care less . . . Only the very weak and feeble can be led astray by delusions of worshipping Mary as the Mother of God, so carry on with your work of thinning out the herd.I have been debating these Bible Topics with scholars around the world since before many of you were born and have spent years and years working inside the Roman Catholic Church and other misguided denominations under the power of the ‘deluding influence’ (2 Thessalonians 2:11). While I respect your right to spread this Mariolatry nonsense everywhere, if these moderators allow, we also have the right to express our opposing views the very same way. Right? The simple truth is that even worshipping the Holy Spirit as “The Almighty” (Revelation 1:8) is dead wrong, because He is the ‘water witness’ of “The Word” (John 1:2) in the F+S+HS triune mystery set. The three witnesses of “The Almighty” appear with Him as God To Come (spirit witness), God Who Is (blood witness) and God Who Was (water witness) in Revelation 1:8 and Goldy certainly does not begin to know the difference. Even “God Who Was” is the water witness for The Almighty in the exact pattern of the Holy Spirit testifying for The Word, but Goldy wishes to worship Mary the water witness of Joseph. :0) Please try to support your Mariolatry from God’s Word to realize that kind of worship of a mere woman has no basis in Scripture whatsoever. None. Worship God! Revelation 22:9.In Christ Jesus,Terral
Please tell me to what capacity you worked within the Catholic Church? Does this make you some Catholic genius? Please tell me how we "worship" Mary? No, I'm not going to debate scripture with you silly. Why should I? I've mentioned scripture verses on this forum before. Do you know what everyone's response is: "Well, that's really not what that verse means". It all goes back to the Bible Alone. If you think about it Terral, you are NOT using the Bible alone. You are using your own PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of scripture. Sounds like you have a lot of pride issues to address. Yes, the RCC has their interpretation as well. But I'll take the interpretation of 2000 years over someone who's been on this earth for 33 years(me), or you, or Pariah, or SuperJag, or Kriss, etc., etc., etc. Go ahead, keep tearing down the Catholic Church. You and everyone else on here continue to affirm me in my faith. "No Mary, No Jesus. Any questions?" -Mother Teresa