How Does the Church Interact with the Kingdom?

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HammerStone

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I'm pondering this question lately as I read Kingdom Come by Reggie McNeal. I'm not here to attack the bride of Christ, but I am here to ponder what we've made church.

So, without me sticking my opinion in just yet, how does the Church interact with the Kingdom?

Are they the same? Are they different?
 

pom2014

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The church he established at Caesarea has been hijacked by Levites drunk on old wine.

This schism has led to either disillusioned faithful that now are either paralysed, turned spiritualist more than evangelist or simply had to go out into the wilderness with little comfort by fellowship.

Until this is rectified it will continue to cause a rift between The King and his subjects and risks them turning so far away that they may well commit the one sin that will be their undoing, blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Already the denominations now are more important than God in the eyes of many. It is very sad.
 

JimParker

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HammerStone said:
I'm pondering this question lately as I read Kingdom Come by Reggie McNeal. I'm not here to attack the bride of Christ, but I am here to ponder what we've made church.

So, without me sticking my opinion in just yet, how does the Church interact with the Kingdom?

Are they the same? Are they different?
The assembling of the church is the real presence of the Kingdom of God on earth. It is the very body of Christ.
The Eucharist is the "the sacrament of the coming of the risen Lord, of our meeting and communing with Him 'at His table in His kingdom'."

Book suggestion: "The Eucharist" by Alexander Schmemann, St. Vladimir Seminary Press.
 

Episkopos

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HammerStone said:
I'm pondering this question lately as I read Kingdom Come by Reggie McNeal. I'm not here to attack the bride of Christ, but I am here to ponder what we've made church.

So, without me sticking my opinion in just yet, how does the Church interact with the Kingdom?

Are they the same? Are they different?

The association varies from loose to non-existant...to openly hostile in my view. There is no more "race" in "grace" anymore it seems. Everything is relegated to a future deliverance from sin. But where is the overcoming faith and experience of Christ? Where is the victory in Christ? Leaders (for the most part) in the church have no real experience of Christ....hence true disciples have followed Jesus outside the religious system that actually has become hostile to the truth. There is so much talk of church planting and leadership...but this is outside the presence of God in the realm of men. Men have taken over the agenda of God...at least it seems this way if we are to believe what men have organized Jesus Christ into.

God wants us to bear witness to the life that is in Christ. We can't wait until we're dead for that. The time for producing eternal fruit for God is now. We can't bear witness to Jesus in truth unless we have walked with Him. We know the Lord by living from where He is...in heaven. Jesus was raised from the dead by the power that has become grace which has been given to those who would follow after Him. Unless the followers of Jesus proclaim this power (as they walk in His power) then nobody will know of it. At least, nobody will even imagine what is possible for men because of the coming of Jesus Christ to the world. We who have walked with Jesus in His power proclaim this power as the gospel of the kingdom of God. We make known the power of God towards men so that others can partake of the life from heaven.

The peace of the Lord to you
 
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whitestone

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Since the Church is the Israel Wife of Christ, the New Jerusalem from whence we are born being our Mother... all being the Kingdom of God... The OP question is like asking How a Mother interacts with her children. One big happy family of course :)
 

Axehead

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I do agree with McNeal that too much emphasis has been put on the Church and in my opinion emphasis should be on the King. There is no Kingdom without a King.

Of course you have to delineate between the true and false and the spiritual and worldly church, today. Let's just assume we are speaking about the True Church and not the fallen away "church".

I will have more to say, later. However, if we are Christ-centered then we will be interacting with the King and therefore, be rightly related to other aspects (people) of His Kingdom.
 

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HammerStone said:
I'm pondering this question lately as I read Kingdom Come by Reggie McNeal. I'm not here to attack the bride of Christ, but I am here to ponder what we've made church.

So, without me sticking my opinion in just yet, how does the Church interact with the Kingdom?

Are they the same? Are they different?
According to Jesus quoted in the gospel of Mathew, the church acts in a manner in which decisions made to cause actions or cease from actions are respected and acted upon in heaven.

That was then. This is now.

The church today is rotten to the core. In America, churches are run like businesses and they are being run badly. Despite what is perceived as a divine responsibility to maintain the faith, church leaders from one end of our country to the other have acted irresponsibly and have run their churches into the ground - financially as well as spiritually. Nearly every church of which I am aware is deeply deeply in debt. The crushing weight of debt cannot be sustained much longer in the increasingly inflated economy which we now suffer. Before much longer we shall see churches closing their doors permanently because their creditors no longer have the patience to allow them to act irresponsibly. This too is an action of heaven. If the earthly church does not act in accordance with its call to glorify Christ, then the powers of heaven will remove it.

"Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first, or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lapmstand out of its place - unless you repent."
- Rev 2:5

In Europe the church no longer exists as a spiritual entity. The buildings still stand - for the tourists to enjoy, but there are few congregations at all that still worship God in spirit and in truth. My wife and I have hosted numerous foreign exchange students from Germany and France. They all tell us the same story. Magazine essays and lectures by missionary organizers tell the same story.

In South America the people are reverting to their pagan ways. I've been there personally and can add my testimony to that of missionaries I've talked with who have fled the area. The gospel is no longer welcome in S.A.

In Africa, war and pestilence have eroded most of the advances missionaries and local leadership have made over the last century. The continent is reverting to savagery and the rule of warlords unsympathetic to Christians principles of peace and love. Why should they believe us? The white man has oppressed them for centuries in the name of religion and colonialism and the warlords are simply mimicking what they've seen.

In the Middle East, the agents of American aggression, al Qaeda and ISIL, have decimated all the Christian communities.(1) Afghanistan once had a thriving Christian community complete with churches, Christian schools and leadership. It's all gone now mostly because Afghanistan also has the world's largest poppy fields.

In case you haven't guessed, I'm angry. I'm angry at the flagrant loss of life in the name of politics and I'm angry at the denial of God in our churches. I once worked for the ministry in the Episcopal Church. The leaders are nice folks, but in private they actively deny Christ. I was personally told that I would not be allowed to act in a ministerial role unless I denied Christ "and all this business about being saved. Can't you understand this is just a job?" A few years ago the national leadership of the Presbyterian and Lutheran Churches voted to deny the Bible as THE Word of God, substituting the phrase A word of God, thus lowering the Bible to the level of worldly literature.(2) The church is a hollow shell of its former glory. It has the form of religion, but has denied the power of it.

In China, the church is thriving. I am hearing strange stories from Nanjing and Shanghai from my son who has just returned from there. The phrase "underground church" does not refer to a secret society. The Chinese call it underground because they hold meetings in private homes. I've heard this story from missionaries and other travelers as well. Contrary to what we've been told, Christianity is NOT illegal in China. I am told that if you want to find a local church you can inquire at any police station and they will be glad to tell you. The issue in China is real estate development. If a church grows to the point that they need larger accommodations, they must train new leadership and establish another home church. If they try to build the government will apply a heavy tax.(3)

The top post of this thread asked how the church interacts with the Kingdom of God. According to what we see happening in the world, it doesn't interact with the Kingdom of God at all. We are in the midst of the Great Apostasy predicted in the Bible as a quality of the End Times prior to the Second Coming of Christ. What will He find when He arrives I wonder.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(1) Every nation on the planet except the US is aware of the fact that the terrorist organizations were recruited, trained, organized and operated by the US and its allies of Turkey, the GCC and Jordan. They are supplied through Turkey and Jordan by legions of truck convoys and if any substantial progress was truly to be made against these groups only a few aerial sorties would have to be made to block the flow of supplies. ISIL would become a painful memory in six months or less if this was done. Instead our evening news treats us to the occasional site of a bombed out desert building or two. We are feasting on lies perpetrated by our own media and government.

(2) Those who were in attendance at these meetings told me personally that after the vote was taken they witnessed strange atmospheric activity. At the Lutheran venue a tornado appeared suddenly and tore the spire off the church. At the Presbyterian venue, I was told that a sudden power surge blacked out the building and that a supporting prayer group was released by the Holy Spirit from any further prayer on behalf of the leadership.

(3) I have certain problems and questions about home churches wherever they exist. I visited some in my community and discovered that they are riddled with heresy and self-important leadership. How then do the Chinese guard against these factors? How can the truth of the gospel be preserved when every man, in Western culture at least, considers himself a mini-pope? How can heresy be kept from the faith? I have a Masters Degree in Christian theology and history and am well aware of the history of the church in these matters. Simply saying that Christians can worship in China without fear of arrest does not mean the church is spiritually mature. There is much we in America do not know and much that is misrepresented to us as well.
 

Joseph77

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So, without me sticking my opinion in just yet, how does the Church interact with the Kingdom?
Are they the same? Are they different?
Where is either one?
Seeing all the viewpoints on the forum, where is the Kingdom of God, and where is the Church, or the church, or the Ekklesia ?