Creation vs. Evolution Apologetics

(For Life;26096)
I am not claiming to be as well read as you or as well educated. I have read the new testament twice and I am now reading the old testament. I am just starting Nehemiah. I have to admit the old testament is much harder for me to read and understand. I have been reading it for 12 months and I am still not done.The whole point of writing a book is so your audience will understand what you are writing. Only a fool would write a book for the people that was so confusing only a few could understand. Then it truly would be open to interpretation.
First of all, that's not quite true either. Revelation was written especially so that the messages would not be understood by the Romans. The number 666, is the calculation of Nero's real name, for example.Ezekiel and Revelation, and all apocalyptic literature, is written in much the same fashion. It uses imagery intensely, and is addressed to be understood by a specific audience.John was not a fool, and neither was Ezekiel. Please, continue your readings. You will see that some of the styles of books are poetic, some are prophetic, some are historic, some are very apocalyptic, some are narratives. This is true of all ancient Jewish Literature, inside and outside the Bible. These styles are not alien to anything extrabiblical. They are in fact used/incorporated by the Biblical authors to preach the divine word of God.Good luck. :study:

PariahBecause in our spirit bodies their is no female form without a female form no marriage can take place but that does not mean Angels can not take the form of Men in fact we are told they often do this. I do pretend to know all the answers about this. But like it or not it is what Gods word says and I will never deny it or comprise the Word of God because my human mind doesnt fully grasp the small details

Genesis/Evolution-science cannot come together to confirm one or the other neither can they confirm each other. I think Genesis is the pattern of truth that did not come from a man but from God. I believe men lose out on knowing and seeing the things that come from the power of God through faith because they have become to tied up to the earth.Man is the creation of God and we do not look upon ourselves with wonder and awe at what we can accomplish as human beings. Man must leave the trappings of the world behind, trying to visualise and understand the truth of God through human means will never give us answers or the ability to live in the power of God as the disciples did. If you want truth you must go to the source of that truth. For the world it is God and we know he has said Jesus Christ is that truth. Jesus said, " Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you. Why and how can everything be added unto us if we are still expecting things to happen and be explained in the natural when the things of God are not born of the natural but the spiritual and enabled men to live in that power by faith in the truth.I believe the evolution theory and all such things as science has to be abandoned by the believer and the word of God should be allowed to sink into us as the true seed of truth and life in Christ. Faithful.(Codegrazer;24989)
Some proponents of a literal Creation story interpretation, such as the producers of "Reasonable Doubt: Evolution Versus Modern Microbiology", propose that first challenging the establishments entrenched doctrine of evolution, strictly from the science, is a tactical (or incremental) step towards reaching minds and hearts open only to "scientific" (closed to the supernatural) explanation of life. So proving that evolution isn't all it's cracked up to be THEN opens the way for consideration of a literal Creation.Other proponents of a literal Creation story interpretation, such as Ken Ham at AnswersInGenesis.com, feel that dealing with the science alone can potentially be a distraction from the Truth of Creation and that we must at same time always teach a literal Creation as the answer to evolution, standing on the position that God's Word will not return to Him empty.How do you feel about these two different approaches to the same end?

(kriss;26095)
Animals do not have the same spirit bodies as humans this is evident in that when the wolf and lamb lie together in the future they are still animals
You're working off of the messianic Imagery in Isaiah instead of understanding Ecclesiastes properly.He made all things by his Word, by his Holy Spirit he sustains creation, for the Holy Spirit is living and active. There is also a division between soul and spirit. The Spirit, once a creature dies, returns to God. This is so for man as well.The Soul is quite different from Spirit. The Soul is what we have.

(Faithful;26104)
I believe the evolution theory and all such things as science has to be abandoned by the believer and the word of God should be allowed to sink into us as the true seed of truth and life in Christ. Faithful.
Do you all see now? THIS is exactly the false Dichotomy you are creating, sustaining, and enforcing with this attitude. This is true blasphemy.Now, don't misinterpret, I'm not insulted or upset. However, I do hope you come to realize that man has a mind, which God gave us to use, and it is abundantly clear that first, Genesis is a Creation Narrative which draws on the imagery in other contemporary sources, and second, that evolution is a proved fact.

Well that sounds great faithful but thats the exact reason why people call creatioists fools because we do not have an answer we just claim its up to God to know these answersTheres no problem with that for us but to others it makes God look foolish When in fact God gives us the answers most just refuse to see it because they have been hiding behind this misconception of men so long that God didnt say, its Wrong God did say. We just refuse to hear God and listen to men

(kriss;26103)
I do pretend to know all the answers about this.
hehe.. sorry, couldn't resist. That was a funny Freudian slip there.

(kriss;26109)
Well that sounds great faithful but thats the exact reason why people call creatioists fools because we do not have an answer we just claim its up to God to know these answersTheres no problem with that for us but to others it makes God look foolish When in fact God gives us the answers most just refuse to see it because they have been hiding behind this misconception of men so long that God didnt say, its Wrong God did say. We just refuse to hear God and listen to men
Ahmen!I agree wholeheartedly. ... except perhaps where you say that that sounds great.. I think it sounds foolish.. I think foolish is a polar opposite of great, as far as intellect is concerned.

(Tyrel;26102)
First of all, that's not quite true either. Revelation was written especially so that the messages would not be understood by the Romans. The number 666, is the calculation of Nero's real name, for example.Ezekiel and Revelation, and all apocalyptic literature, is written in much the same fashion. It uses imagery intensely, and is addressed to be understood by a specific audience.John was not a fool, and neither was Ezekiel. Please, continue your readings. You will see that some of the styles of books are poetic, some are prophetic, some are historic, some are very apocalyptic, some are narratives. This is true of all ancient Jewish Literature, inside and outside the Bible. These styles are not alien to anything extrabiblical. They are in fact used/incorporated by the Biblical authors to preach the divine word of God.Good luck. :study:
The bible is not historic because there is no way to verify the events of books in each era as with normal history books. These were not written at the time of events in every book of the Old Testament. Moses was given the accounts in the Torah, some are factual from what he encountered but he was not there when God created Adam and Eve. The fact that God could give Moses such a detailed account shows that truth in the Spirit from God is ageless and is living proof of his existence.I do realise you said some books prophetic but Christ is spoken about throughout the bible and so even today we wait for Daniel and Revelation the apocalyptic books to be completely fulfilled.The number 666 also represents the name give to the pope Vicar of Christ.We need not to jump to conclusions because numbers standing for a mans name can be used to refer to many mens names.It does not matter how long you have studied the word, with Christ we see God speaks directly to his people through the Holy Spirit as living beings.The words of the bible help us to grow in love and truth. I would say to any believe whether new with little biblical study or old with years of knowledge, that in Christ you are all equal and that no one is love more or less for what they know of the word. For those who have Christ have everything.We should love and share everything we have with the strong and the weak helping the to grow in a secure and assured feeling that they are all acceptable to God and equally loved.xx

quote}hehe.. sorry, couldn't resist. That was a funny Freudian slip there.{quote}tyrelNo actully when I wrote it I knew you would jump on it but unlike you I do not pretend to have all the answers I only know what God shows me. You on the other hand get your knowledge from where?????????????

(Tyrel;26098)
umm... Did you read what I wrote at all? How do you know we can't? That .. I hesitate to say "Kind".. isn't around anymore. ... wait a minute... do you think we evolved from monkeys?
Hi Tyrel,Actually, I missed this post from yours #178. Not sure how either.As to the second question, okay. You got me. And no, I'm not going to find out either since it is a sin to do so. ( yes.. small, very tiny joke) Just observing the course of nature since I have seen cows in the same pasture as horses. Nothing happened there cause nothing ever will. You would think by the slang of our language that horses would be horsing around in there, but then the cows would be having a cow. (Another small, very tiny joke )As to the third question, I believe you implied that in that post. I don't believe it, of course.
First, if you are talking about being able to reproduce with our ape like ancestor, then I would imagine we could, but evolution does not by any means guarantee that {to my knowledge of genetics anyway}. However, this isn't something we can test, as the other "packs" {Orangutans, Gorillas, and Chimpanzees} have all evolved as well, and we've all been secluded from each other.
It is amazing how one can surmise, but can't figure out how one becomes another kind as in a cow to a whale... yeah that kind of kind. Subtle changes in micro-evolution does not mean macro-evolution happened. A cow does not become a whale by being stubborn to stand along the shorelines of the ocean to get knocked over by the waves repeatedly before the environment triggers something in its DNA structures to mutate into a flapping whale. That cow would avoid the waters. And to get males and females of that new variation to repoduce as that kind, is less likely to happen as both ligers... male and females have been put together, but still... both are sterile. It can never happen. Natural selection would require that all transitional creature would be eliminated because it would be unable to cope to survive. They are either created for a certain environment or they are not... I am referring to water life versus land life. Amazing how frogs and other creatures of transitional charcteristics are still stuck in that mode, because that is the way they were created. Nothing outside is telling them to make up its mind.
As to your last paragraph... would you mind making that a little more clear?
From post #178.Just agreeing with thesuperjag, kriss, and Denver that kinds can only reproduce after its own kind... as in man can only reproduce with a woman after mankind... a dog after a dog... horse after a horse... a cow after a cow.What I don't agree with and they have yet to apply it by the grace of God.. is that angels.. another kind..fallen or otherwise, cannot reproduce with man... another kind.

(Faithful;26112)
The bible is not historic because there is no way to verify the events of books in each era as with normal history books. These were not written at the time of events in every book of the Old Testament. Moses was given the accounts in the Torah, some are factual from what he encountered but he was not there when God created Adam and Eve. The fact that God could give Moses such a detailed account shows that truth in the Spirit from God is ageless and is living proof of his existence.I do realise you said some books prophetic but Christ is spoken about throughout the bible and so even today we wait for Daniel and Revelation the apocalyptic books to be completely fulfilled.The number 666 also represents the name give to the pope Vicar of Christ.We need not to jump to conclusions because numbers standing for a mans name can be used to refer to many mens names.It does not matter how long you have studied the word, with Christ we see God speaks directly to his people through the Holy Spirit as living beings.The words of the bible help us to grow in love and truth. I would say to any believe whether new with little biblical study or old with years of knowledge, that in Christ you are all equal and that no one is love more or less for what they know of the word. For those who have Christ have everything.We should love and share everything we have with the strong and the weak helping the to grow in a secure and assured feeling that they are all acceptable to God and equally loved.xx
Dear Faithful,Oh boy... too much to correct.. ok, point by point then.1. When you say the bible is not historic.. you speak as though none of it is. The Bible is not one book. Some books are historical... at least we agree Genesis isn't one of those.. strangely enough..2. Adam and Eve never existed. The book is a creation Narrative.. Job's Children never existed.. it's a poetic didactic work. But yes, the message is timeless, and true. Trustworthy.3. 666 in the book, within that context, refers to Nero, as it's making illusions to Rome. The one who sits on seven hills. Um.. but... no, not the vicar of Christ.. not any of the Bishops of Rome were indicated in this passage.. in fact, Nero's proper name comes out to 666, and his more commonly known name comes out to be 616.. so many of the people in the seven churches, actually changed 666, to 616 in many of their copies, just to make it more clear that it was Nero. This was understood implicitly in the early apostolic Church. We still have many Papyrus extant today which read 616.4. It does matter how long and how seriously you've studied the Bible. The Holy spirit leads us into Truth. We don't need the Bible for that. Some Chinese Christians for ages had to, and many still do, live as Christians without a Bible. However, the Bible is meaningless if you don't understand it. This is why we have translations. this is why we have bible Studies. This is why we spend so much time trying to understand it correctly. Beware of false doctrines. What you are doing is going to lead you to find "subjective" truth, which may or may not be true at all, and the more people who incorporate that method, the more confusion we get, and the more false doctrine we as the Church produce.5. Yes, we are all loved by Christ. However, a child is not fit to take the pulpit anymore than a father is fit to breast feed his son. The issue is not who God loves the most in the whole wide world. The issue is who understands the Bible and is fit to give interpretation, and who isn't.My personal view is that everyone is fit to try, and it is our duty as Christians, if we are able to, to search the scriptures and find the true meaning behind things, by searching diligently. However, I do believe many people are very very wrong about various things. That's the price I guess.

Tyrel is taking the natural law of survivial of the fittest and trying to make it into evolution. They are different things Pariah I told you it is Gods word that says this not mine you can try to find a way to rationalize it away if that suits your human mind better but it changes nothing it is what God says. The spirit in animals is not the same as the spirit of man the animals are not made in the image of God and the angels.

Dear Pariah.. hehe.. think you're funny do ya? {actually, I thought it was kind of clever }Ok, (Pariah;26114)
Hi Tyrel,Actually, I missed this post from yours #178. Not sure how either.As to the second question, okay. You got me. And no, I'm not going to find out either since it is a sin to do so. ( yes.. small, very tiny joke) Just observing the course of nature since I have seen cows in the same pasture as horses. Nothing happened there cause nothing ever will. You would think by the slang of our language that horses would be horsing around in there, but then the cows would be having a cow. (Another small, very tiny joke )As to the third question, I believe you implied that in that post. I don't believe it, of course.
This is where I'm sort of surprised... I told you already that we didn't evolve from monkeys. We evolved from an ape like ancestor. The same ancestor as the Chimps evolved from, the same the Gorillas evolved from, and the same the Orangutans evolved from.We didn't evolve From monkeys, we.. sort of.. ARE monkeys. I feel I should crack a joke as witty and lame as yours.. but alas I don't have the skills.(Pariah;26114)
It is amazing how one can surmise, but can't figure out how one becomes another kind as in a cow to a whale... yeah that kind of kind. Subtle changes in micro-evolution does not mean macro-evolution happened. A cow does not become a whale by being stubborn to stand along the shorelines of the ocean to get knocked over by the waves repeatedly before the environment triggers something in its DNA structures to mutate into a flapping whale. That cow would avoid the waters. And to get males and females of that new variation to repoduce as that kind, is less likely to happen as both ligers... male and females have been put together, but still... both are sterile. It can never happen.
Once again... clearly haven't diligently read through my posts. All this is explained. Please, forget visiting www.talkorigins.org.. Just go here and watch this video, please. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSgI've already explained the "natural selection" part too.. you don't seem to get it.. either my skills at explaining things are not as sharp as I thought, or you didn't read my post thoroughly, with an open mind.Either way, I won't bother to reiterate. Instead, I'll direct you to that video. Watch the whole thing with an open mind, and an honest heart. Then, maybe you can be the first in 20+ pages to give me your feedback.(Pariah;26114)
Natural selection would require that all transitional creature would be eliminated because it would be unable to cope to survive. They are either created for a certain environment or they are not... I am referring to water life versus land life. Amazing how frogs and other creatures of transitional charcteristics are still stuck in that mode, because that is the way they were created. Nothing outside is telling them to make up its mind.
... wow... you seriously misunderstood natural selection... I wonder if that's my fault... ok, maybe I'll try to explain it again... later.. one I figure out how what I wrote was interpreted as ... that...(Pariah;26114)
From post #178.Just agreeing with thesuperjag, kriss, and Denver that kinds can only reproduce after its own kind... as in man can only reproduce with a woman after mankind... a dog after a dog... horse after a horse... a cow after a cow.What I don't agree with and they have yet to apply it by the grace of God.. is that angels.. another kind..fallen or otherwise, cannot reproduce with man... another kind.
Well, I think I disagree with you about that.. but I think you are all really misunderstanding it. The Nephilim were not real. Gah.. ok. Please watch the Video.. I don't know how to make it more clear than I have made it in these past 20 pages.. Whether you skipped most of the posts {which I could understand}, or whether you really just didn't get it.. either way.. please watch the video, and try again.In Hope,~Tyrel

(kriss;26113)
quote}hehe.. sorry, couldn't resist. That was a funny Freudian slip there.{quote}tyrelNo actully when I wrote it I knew you would jump on it but unlike you I do not pretend to have all the answers I only know what God shows me. You on the other hand get your knowledge from where?????????????
Well, God has a large part to play in it, for sure. He has faithfully led me to truth after truth. I've been fortunate enough to live in Canada, and be relatively well off. Thus, with a computer, the internet, and a personal home library of books, I suppose I've got the tools, which so many elsewhere in the world would kill for. I'm thankful. I also have school. That helps a great deal as well.In the end though, these are just tools. God is the one who has led me to be on fire in searching for the Truth in all things, and if I'm patient, he reveals truth to me. I have trouble being patient, I'll admit.. but he's always been faithful. So, the short answer is God. The long answer.. oh boy, now there's an interesting story

Dear Faithful,Oh boy... too much to correct.. ok, point by point then.1. When you say the bible is not historic.. you speak as though none of it is. The Bible is not one book. Some books are historical... at least we agree Genesis isn't one of those.. strangely enough..
Read 2 Peter 1:20-21. Genesis is the truth and this cannot be denied.
2. Adam and Eve never existed. The book is a creation Narrative.. Job's Children never existed.. it's a poetic didactic work. But yes, the message is timeless, and true. Trustworthy.
So there never was a first man and woman. If you were not so ignorant you would know that Adam means man/earth. It refers to him being made of the red soil/earth. So if you knew the hebrew meaning you would know that Adam was the first man and only man created from the red soil/earth.Eve means life/living. Being created from life of Adam. Do you still think it is a fable?
3. 666 in the book, within that context, refers to Nero, as it's making illusions to Rome. The one who sits on seven hills. Um.. but... no, not the vicar of Christ.. not any of the Bishops of Rome were indicated in this passage.. in fact, Nero's proper name comes out to 666, and his more commonly known name comes out to be 616.. so many of the people in the seven churches, actually changed 666, to 616 in many of their copies, just to make it more clear that it was Nero. This was understood implicitly in the early apostolic Church. We still have many Papyrus extant today which read 616.
You haven't a clue, have you?I think it is best left that way.
4. It does matter how long and how seriously you've studied the Bible. The Holy spirit leads us into Truth. We don't need the Bible for that. Some Chinese Christians for ages had to, and many still do, live as Christians without a Bible. However, the Bible is meaningless if you don't understand it. This is why we have translations. this is why we have bible Studies. This is why we spend so much time trying to understand it correctly. Beware of false doctrines. What you are doing is going to lead you to find "subjective" truth, which may or may not be true at all, and the more people who incorporate that method, the more confusion we get, and the more false doctrine we as the Church produce.
I was taught by God from Childhood, I prefer the King James version which is the most truthful for explanation. But the bible without the presence of God in your life is like having a stick of dynamite without a fuse. Impossible to use correctly. I believe the word of God and I trust him. You see if you knew your bible, you would know that Christ and John both taught the Holy Spirit would teach us. John clearly teaches 1 John 2:27 (King James Version) 27.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.Are you sure who is teaching you? Because the bible confirms who is teaching me. And we cannot both be right.
5. Yes, we are all loved by Christ. However, a child is not fit to take the pulpit anymore than a father is fit to breast feed his son. The issue is not who God loves the most in the whole wide world. The issue is who understands the Bible and is fit to give interpretation, and who isn't.My personal view is that everyone is fit to try, and it is our duty as Christians, if we are able to, to search the scriptures and find the true meaning behind things, by searching diligently. However, I do believe many people are very very wrong about various things. That's the price I guess
The bible teaches us that the Spirit teaches Gods children and is the only mark and seal of his approval of those who know God and Christ. My view is not personal, it is of the word of truth as taught by God. We cannot have personal views just words of truth. Ephesians 6:11 & 17.11.Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Faith is about hearing/reading the word of God and obeying it.Faithful.

Deary me,ok, apparently you didn't get it. 1. Genesis is the Truth. I don't deny it at all.2. It's a narrative.. kind of like a parable.. was there a real prodigal Son in Jesus' story, whom he was just protecting by not giving the name of? Was Lazarus a real man in Luke 16? No, these are parables.. Don't know how to make it more clear..3. .... sure. 4. Too much to correct.. the KJV is one of the translations which was good for it's time, but if you want an authoritative translation, you need to go back to the original language. The KJV has too many huge mistakes for me to feel comfortable using it without using others, but I use it all the time. .Did you read the Bible in KJV when you were a todler? Being Jewish doesn't mean you knew God in a special way at birth.. Defend that Biblically, if you can.5. The Holy Spirit, the Comforter, does lead us into truth. However, you are idolizing the canon of scripture as defined by the church. It is the Word of God, but the Word of God is, in itself, not the scriptures, but is written on the heart of a man. Not on stone tablets. To understand the written word, you need to study. If you don't understand it, you are liable to produce false exegesis.6. ok, I was going to say ahmen.. but then you said, " we cannot have personal views".. lol, communist. No, but seriously, I agree with you that false doctrine need be rejected as true anathema, but people who are seeking the truth, who happen to disagree on a point or two, or three, or more.. are one of them necessarily lost in God's eyes? I think God brings us to Truth to the extent we allow him to. Some people have been walking the journey for a long time, only taking small steps along the way, while others who just began are rushing to the finish line. Regardless, God looks after his flock, and knows them all by name.7. Faith is about Much MUCH more than that. That's far too simple, it's just a part of it.

Deary me,ok, apparently you didn't get it. 1. Genesis is the Truth. I don't deny it at all.
:study:
2. It's a narrative.. kind of like a parable.. was there a real prodigal Son in Jesus' story, whom he was just protecting by not giving the name of? Was Lazarus a real man in Luke 16? No, these are parables.. Don't know how to make it more clear..
Parables contain truths. Are you saying God would need to make up people and incidents when he was present at the creation and did it through Christ.John 1:1-4.1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2.The same was in the beginning with God. 3.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4.In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Would Jesus need figures of speech to explain situtations which happened to people, why use names at all when the identification could not be known. Jesus Spoke Truth for God is truth. They did not know these people so Christ says, There was once a man named Lazarus and then Dives who had how many brothers? Why not two or one? Think carefully, Christ would not lie, it would be a parable only to those who never knew the persons personally.
3. .... sure.
Does the word say nothing is impossible for God? So what is impossible above Dives and Lazarus existing. Abraham was real wasn't he? Still so sure?
4. Too much to correct.. the KJV is one of the translations which was good for it's time, but if you want an authoritative translation, you need to go back to the original language. The KJV has too many huge mistakes for me to feel comfortable using it without using others, but I use it all the time. .Did you read the Bible in KJV when you were a todler? Being Jewish doesn't mean you knew God in a special way at birth.. Defend that Biblically, if you can.
Jeremiah 31:31-34 (King James Version) 31.Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32.Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33.But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34.And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.John 4:20-24. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21.Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24.God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
5. The Holy Spirit, the Comforter, does lead us into truth. However, you are idolizing the canon of scripture as defined by the church. It is the Word of God, but the Word of God is, in itself, not the scriptures, but is written on the heart of a man. Not on stone tablets. To understand the written word, you need to study. If you don't understand it, you are liable to produce false exegesis.
Where did you read this? The Spirit circumcises the heart he gives the sword which is the word of God which he brings. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 above. No man will have to teach his neighbour to know the Lord. etc
6. ok, I was going to say ahmen.. but then you said, " we cannot have personal views".. lol, communist. No, but seriously, I agree with you that false doctrine need be rejected as true anathema, but people who are seeking the truth, who happen to disagree on a point or two, or three, or more.. are one of them necessarily lost in God's eyes? I think God brings us to Truth to the extent we allow him to. Some people have been walking the journey for a long time, only taking small steps along the way, while others who just began are rushing to the finish line. Regardless, God looks after his flock, and knows them all by name.
You could Call christinity communist wanting to bring the same to all men making them equal in Christ. But it is not the communism of Russia and the world for it ends in love and life in result. Not domination.The truth sets people free and the Spirit of God does not cause confusion.The truth the Spirit brings us, sets us free to love and serve God in truth.
7. Faith is about Much MUCH more than that. That's far too simple, it's just a part of it.
Faith is the willingness to think and act on the basis of what we know of God, ( which may be very little) and to trust him that he will not let us down.Without faith we cannot please God.

(Faithful;26148)
:studyarables contain truths. Are you saying God would need to make up people and incidents when he was present at the creation and did it through Christ.John 1:1-4.1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2.The same was in the beginning with God. 3.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4.In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Would Jesus need figures of speech to explain situtations which happened to people, why use names at all when the identification could not be known. Jesus Spoke Truth for God is truth. They did not know these people so Christ says, There was once a man named Lazarus and then Dives who had how many brothers? Why not two or one? Think carefully, Christ would not lie, it would be a parable only to those who never knew the persons personally.Does the word say nothing is impossible for God? So what is impossible above Dives and Lazarus existing. Abraham was real wasn't he? Still so sure?Jeremiah 31:31-34 (King James Version) 31.Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32.Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33.But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34.And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.John 4:20-24. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21.Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24.God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Where did you read this? The Spirit circumcises the heart he gives the sword which is the word of God which he brings. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 above. No man will have to teach his neighbour to know the Lord. etcYou could Call christinity communist wanting to bring the same to all men making them equal in Christ. But it is not the communism of Russia and the world for it ends in love and life in result. Not domination.The truth sets people free and the Spirit of God does not cause confusion.The truth the Spirit brings us, sets us free to love and serve God in truth.Faith is the willingness to think and act on the basis of what we know of God, ( which may be very little) and to trust him that he will not let us down.Without faith we cannot please God.
Amen faithful

Dear Faithful,(Faithful;26148)
Parables contain truths. Are you saying God would need to make up people and incidents when he was present at the creation and did it through Christ.John 1:1-4.1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2.The same was in the beginning with God. 3.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4.In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Would Jesus need figures of speech to explain situtations which happened to people, why use names at all when the identification could not be known. Jesus Spoke Truth for God is truth. They did not know these people so Christ says, There was once a man named Lazarus and then Dives who had how many brothers? Why not two or one? Think carefully, Christ would not lie, it would be a parable only to those who never knew the persons personally.
Are you suggesting that Jesus was necessarily using examples of things which had literally happened at some point in time?That's impressively literalist. It's not well founded though.(Faithful;26148)
Does the word say nothing is impossible for God? So what is impossible above Dives and Lazarus existing. Abraham was real wasn't he? Still so sure?
Nothing is impossible for God. He is Omnipotent. It's not impossible for the story in Luke 16 to have really happened. It's not impossible for God to have created the world in 6 days. Nothing is impossible for God. However, I'm saying that Luke 16 isn't a literal historical story. I'm saying that God DIDN'T create the world in 6 days, and I'm saying that neither of these passages are meant at all in any way to be taken literally.And yes.. Abraham was real. I'm pretty sure (Faithful;26148)
Jeremiah 31:31-34 (King James Version) 31.Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32.Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33.But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34.And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Dude, that's like, my favorite passage. Or one of. I have it memorized. I'm glad to see somebody else knows about it. Not many people quote it I find.. at least, not enough. It's beautiful.. and aligns beautifully with Malachi 3:1However, the issue is not knowing the Lord. We come to know God in a Personal relationship. However, the scriptures are not the "bridge" to this relationship. They are extremely helpful in searching for the deeper things, the Truths, but a Chinese Christian on fire for the Lord without a Bible in hand is just as much a Christian as you or I.(Faithful;26148)
John 4:20-24. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21.Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24.God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
wow.. verse 24.. yet another one of my favorites.(Faithful;26148)
Where did you read this? The Spirit circumcises the heart he gives the sword which is the word of God which he brings. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 above. No man will have to teach his neighbour to know the Lord. etc
Once again, Ahmen.. but Knowing God in a Personal relationship is not the same as understanding the Bible.(Faithful;26148)
You could Call christinity communist wanting to bring the same to all men making them equal in Christ. But it is not the communism of Russia and the world for it ends in love and life in result. Not domination.The truth sets people free and the Spirit of God does not cause confusion.The truth the Spirit brings us, sets us free to love and serve God in truth.
er.. the communist thing was a joke. I mean, if we are to get serious, the view of heaven which is prevalent is actually communist, and that's not a bad thing at all.The Spirit of God does not cause confusion. The "believers" who roll on the floor at every meeting and bible study, those are the ones who cause all the confusion.. well, not all of it. Some of it also comes from those closed minded, convinced of their own ways, and preconceived notions.(Faithful;26148)
Faith is the willingness to think and act on the basis of what we know of God, ( which may be very little) and to trust him that he will not let us down.Without faith we cannot please God.
Ahmen. wait a second... I almost missed the fact that this had no relevance to the thread.... at all...