Webers_Home said:
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From failing eyesight. I have cataracts and sometimes can't see verse
numbers all that well on screen in my Bible software.
Paul said that nothing good dwelled in his body's flesh (Rom 7:18). If his
statement is true and reliable, then by default only bad things were dwelling
in it; and that has to include Paul's brain seeing as how his body's brain was
made of flesh.
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The flesh is not sinful.
THE LAW defines sin as an ACT or violation of the will of God. Since sin is being considered here, then the law MUST be considered because THE LAW defines what is and is not sin. The LAW never defines the flesh as sin. Never. Show me chapter and verse where the LAW says the flesh is sin. You will not find it because it is not so.
Hammerstone has repeatedly made excellent scholarly references to the classic differences between flesh and spirit. He describes Christian theology in collision with heresy and misrepresentation, but his point has not been taken.
The flesh in and of itself is not evil. A sleeping man, for example, commits no sinful acts during his repose. Would you say that a new born baby is riddled with sin before the first time it suckles from its mother? It's important to understand that there are several variations of Christian dogma, all heresy, that assert this very thing to be true - that the sleeping man is sinful and that the baby is also.
It is the ACT that is punished.
The flesh or temptation to sin is not punished. It is not even considered by God to be a punishable offense.
This is the law, both spiritual and carnal. Review the 10 commandments all of which are eternal spiritual and are still in effect. They are all, every one of them, about acts which are sinful. The law NEVER says the flesh is sinful. Show me chapter and verse where the LAW says so.
The ACT of sin results in eternal punishment. The WAGES of sin is death, not the temptations to do it. If flesh was sinful and if temptation to sin was sinful, then Christ who experienced both is a sinner. May it never be! Don't you see the logical problem here? The ACT is judged, not the temptation. Christ was tempted as all men, but did not ACT on it. Therefore He is without sin.
There are also numerous heresies, including but not limited to the Nestorian branch of Christianity that deny Christ's flesh as well. But if Christ did not come in the flesh and did not suffer in the flesh, then His death upon the cross has no meaning. There is no salvation according to this dogma. May it never be! Christ suffered temptation and died a sacrificial death, according to the law, upon the cross. Jesus did not come to replace the law or to destroy it. He came to fulfill it and He did so to His dying breath.
Since the present discussion is about sin, then the LAW must be considered. Why? Because the LAW defines the
act of sin. Nowhere in the law does it state that flesh is evil. Study the law. Dive into it deeply and you will see it defines actions. None of the 613 Jewish commandments define the flesh as sinful. None.
What then is St. Paul writing about in his letter to the Romans and what was Jesus talking about when He said that if one even thought about sin he had committed it? (Matt 5:21) Both men are referring to constant thought about sin which results in the act. Both men are warning about NOT thinking about it and dwelling on it. Both men are saying that temptation should be denied immediately. Jesus was tempted, but immediately denied the act it suggested.
Consider two excellent parallels of the impact of temptation in scripture. The woman Eve and the man Jesus.
Genesis 3:1-6 is the temptation story. In the first half of verse 6 we read that
"the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight for the eyes, and that the tree was was to be desired to make one wise". In the last half of the verse, she yields to temptation and eats. The quoted portion here describes Eve's state of mind as she CONSIDERS the ACT of sin. She descended from level to level until she acted upon the temptation. Level to level. Read it again. Level to level. This is exactly what St. Paul and Jesus are warning us against - the repeated and focused consideration of a sinful act in the mind leads to sin. When you imagine yourself doing it - its the same as doing it because you are already planning the act.
Matt 4:1-11 is the account of Jesus' temptation to sin in the desert. When presented with temptation, Jesus IMMEDIATELY rejected it. Jesus was tempted, but DID NOT consider for one moment the performance of the act. If He had done so, He would have been caught in it's trap. Jesus did not dwell upon it in His mind at all.
The flesh is not sin, but it is the womb in which sin is born into the world.
God did not create sin - Eve did.
Or to use the Biblical reference, the first man Adam sinned. Either way, sin came into the world by Eve and Adam, NOT God. The law is not sinful. The ACT, defined by the law is sin.
When a man is brought before a court of law on earth, he is judged by what he has DONE. So it is with the throne of heaven. A man is judged according to what he has done according to the LAW. Man is never judged for being a man (except in present American society).
The flesh is not in and of itself sinful, but sin is brought into the world through man who uses his flesh to perform it.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...