Can The State of Israel be Destroyed!

blessedhope said:

Li > does God always keep a remnant of people >yes he does !Enjoy

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So are you going to demonstrate that you know what the biblical birthright is or not? Clues: It's found all over Genesis and it's the core foundation of the faith. Included in it are the promises of Messiah, which I would say is safe to say is of key importance.

blessedhope said:

birthright is or not> Yes> Jacob became Israel!> nothing more to be said.

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Hmmmm..... when I originally gave scripture you seemed to indicate that it was not enough that I picked and chose so you list a long passage and implied I should do the same. Now, I'm giving you a chance to get detailed and you say "there's nothing more to be said". Yes, there's plenty more to be said, and you can start by stop wasting your time saying how dumb people are and how they don't understand anything (like you know it all) and start reading the book of Genesis cover to cover. And, oh, don't tell us all here you have and understand it because if so, such a fundamental question to the faith could be answered, which I see none of the questions I asked you really did answer specifically. Thanks for making my night easier. I won't waste my time here as I got my answer. I'm going to do something more fruitful, such as besides reading my bible, teach my cats calculus --- they would probably make more progress.

blessedhope said:

Want to see an example of depravity? Google: Tel Aviv gay parade.. Ke do you really read the Bible?? It says they will be regathered in unbelief. . I can find this in the bible but I see you cant Ke > WHY????

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Right, Judah IS gathered in unbelief. Exactly the situation now. And what do the prophets say God will do about it?
Plenty of prophesies say they will be judged and punished. Only a remnant will survive to join their brethren in all of the holy Land. Zechariah 13:8-9, Jeremiah 50:20

Do not accuse anyone of not reading their Bibles. Remove the plank from your own eye!

blessedhope said:

The bible says NO!. It has a date with Jacobs troubles and the 70th week must take place! Your thoughts.

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I agree. Israel will take over the land, all of it. From there to Russia.

Psalm 83:16-18 NIV Cover their faces with shame, Lord, so that they will seek your name. 17May they ever be ashamed and dismayed; may they perish in disgrace. 18Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Isa 63:7-9 NIV I will tell of the kindnesses of the Lord, the deeds for which he is to be praised, according to all the Lord has done for us—yes, the many good things he has done for Israel, according to his compassion and many kindnesses. 8He said, “Surely they are my people, children who will be true to me”; and so he became their Savior. 9In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.

Isa 63:14 NIV like cattle that go down to the plain, they were given rest by the Spirit of the Lord. This is how you guided your people to make for yourself a glorious name.

Jer 16:14-15 NIV / Jer 23:7-8 NIV “So then, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ 8but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”

Ez 36:24-38 NIV “ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. 30I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. 31Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel! 33“ ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. 34The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. 35They will say, “This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.” 36Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the Lord have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the Lord have spoken, and I will do it.’ 37“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Once again I will yield to Israel’s plea and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, 38as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed festivals. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the Lord.”

Ez 37:12-14 NIV Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’ ”

Ez 37:19-23 NIV say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim’s hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick. I will make them into a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.’ 20Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on 21and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

Ez 38:17-23 NIV “ ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You are the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel. At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them. 18This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign Lord. 19In my zeal and fiery wrath I declare that at that time there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20The fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the beasts of the field, every creature that moves along the ground, and all the people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence. The mountains will be overturned, the cliffs will crumble and every wall will fall to the ground. 21I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign Lord. Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22I will execute judgment on him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. 23And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

Ez 39:25-29 NIV “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. 27When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations. 28Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.”

Micah 2:12-13 NIV “I will surely gather all of you, Jacob; I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel. I will bring them together like sheep in a pen, like a flock in its pasture; the place will throng with people. 13The One who breaks open the way will go up before them; they will break through the gate and go out. Their King will pass through before them, the Lord at their head.”

Zech 13:8-9 NIV In the whole land," declares the LORD, "two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one-third will be left in it. 9 This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.' "

Rom 11:25-32 NIV I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” 28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Rev 12:1-6 NIV A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”a And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Rev 12:13-17 NIV When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

The confusion here is thinking that the State of Israel is all of Israel.
[SIZE=medium]Israelis and Israelites[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Israelis: The current inhabitants of the State of Israel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Israelites: True descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or those people grafted in by reason of righteousness. Only God knows who they all are. Amos 9:9, Romans 9:6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Most Western Christians view modern Israelis as a continuation of the ancient Biblical drama of Israel and as the inheritors of the traditional role that the Jews have played through the ages. Through them, we have a universal moral code of justice: the Ten Commandments. These Divinely inspired Laws form the basis of our Judeo/Christian morality and ethics. Therefore modern Israel has been expected to reflect a high level of justice and morality in its actions. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jewish teaching also says that history is not as the Greeks taught it, that is: a cyclical series of events in which mankind gets no better or no worse. The Torah, the Talmud and the Mishnah, all teach that we can steadily uplift human society and eventually there will come a Messianic era of true peace and harmony.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Although the State of Israel does display restraint in their dealings with their neighbours, it can hardly be said that they maintain Biblical precepts, such as ‘Love thy neighbour’. And as for moral leadership, Israeli’s are a seriously bad example![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]What then of the prophesies that say the Israelites are a chosen people, destined to be a ‘light to the nations’? We must be aware and keep in mind that the Jewish people are comprised of only 2 tribes, of the original 12 sons of Jacob. [Parts of some other tribes are assimilated.] Ezekiel 22:15 The Jewish Israeli people are just ‘the budding of the fig tree’, a first fruit of the final regathering of ALL the Israelite people. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]We are told in many prophecies that Judah will be judged and punished for their many sins, but a remnant will survive to become a ‘holy seed in the Land’. Isaiah 6:13 Then, the great spiritual regeneration and rejoining of all the Israelites will take place; Ezekiel 37:1-19, and as Ezekiel 37:20-28 goes on to say: I shall make them a single nation in the holy Land and I shall pour out My Spirit upon them. Isaiah 44:1-5 Then the Lord’s righteous people will be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 and 12,000 from each tribe will go out to the world, to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Rev. 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] This judgement/punishment event will severely affect the whole world, Luke 21:35 and the nations will cede their sovereignty to a One World Government in order to re-establish normal life and initially ten regions will be formed, each with a Governor or President. Fairly soon, a charismatic and powerful man will rise and take control of them all, declaring himself to be the great leader and saviour of humankind. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]New Israel, [Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5] will not join this federation and they become rich and prosperous, blessed by the Lord, living in peace as God wipes out the Gog/Magog attack, but they become complacent and when the OWG leader comes to make a peace treaty with them, their leaders agree to it, forgetting that it is the Lord who protects and saves them. Isaiah 28:18 This is the trigger for the start of the final seven years, as prophesied in Daniel. The first 3.5 years will be peaceful, but then the OWG leader comes to Jerusalem with his army and conquers Beulah. He goes to the new Temple and sits in the Holy of Holies, declaring himself to be God. This commences the trumpet and bowl punishments of the great Tribulation, which lasts for 3.5 years. Those righteous Israelites, who refused to agree to the treaty with the OWG leader, are promised a place of safety for this time. Rev. 12 Then the Lord Jesus will Return in glory, to reign on earth for 1000 years. After that comes the Great White Throne judgement of all the living and dead. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Finally: eternity with God in the New Jerusalem![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]

blessedhope said:

The bible says NO!. It has a date with Jacobs troubles and the 70th week must take place! Your thoughts.

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The middle of the 70th week was the crucifixion - it is not to come but is past. Was Israel ever destroyed and scattered in the past? Why was it scattered and destroyed? Because they did not recognize and obey the word of God. Are they doing so today? No - Jews are being evangelized in increasing numbers - but like in NT times it was only a remnant. So it is very probable that God will once again ramp up the pressure in order for them to be able to see his Son the Messiah. So don't be surprised when it happens.

Just exactly where is the State of Israel mentioned in the Bible?

FYI, I have lived in Israel. I don't hate them or anyone, but I feel sad for what God is about to do.

As for America, Isaiah 18 is undoubtedly telling about them. The outcome isn't too good for you, or my country New Zealand as well, we are all 'as in the days of Noah' and God will punish us.

Well, having been raised a Dispensationalist I fully understand why they are driven to a point of rage when contradicted because all of the Dispensationalists future rests on the success of present day Israel. They see themselves as ruling and reigning with Christ over the masses of humanity from a position of ultimate power, wealth, and safety. They see themselves as "God's policemen" during the so called "Millennium" forcing everyone to do good and punishing the ungodly. Unfortunately they are seeing scripture fulfilled by the world system definition of human government. Unfortunately God does not rule by force, coercion, and intimidation. Neither does He show himself openly to the ungodly. The only place He does so is at the Second Coming when every eye shall see him. However this is a too late scenario. He simply cannot force people to love and serve Him.

That is why Futurists cannot see that Jesus is now ruling and reigning on the earth. Christians are called to evangelize the world and in doing so stand up for the word of God no matter what. In doing so they may be persecuted, flogged, tortured, and murdered. This is the way that God rules and reigns in the midst of his enemies. The total number of martyrs has been estimated at over 70,000,000 since the time of Stephen 2,000 years ago. The Jews believed that God was going to set them free from the Roman occupation, raise them to a place of preeminence in the world; and the wealth of the nations would flow into it. And the Messiah ben David would be their ruler. The disciples believed this also and were arguing behind Jesus back about who would have the most important positions in His earthly Kingdom that they errantly thought He was about to set up. Never happened - He was killed just like He told them He would be. All of their dreams of a Divine preeminence subsided but never did fully disappear. Jesus had now risen from the dead and what was one of the first questions that He was asked? "Are you NOW going to set up your (earthly) kingdom?" They still didn't get it. They are never going to rule and reign from a position of preeminence and power but from a self sacrificing love, weakness, and humility..

It seems that Christians don't grasp the main message of the book of Revelation. When John recorded the book of Revelation it was God's kind and loving way of correcting these false and unrealistic expectations. He also had a lot of difficult news to tell them. God is shown in the early chapters as holding a will in his hand and Jesus is opening the seals of this will one by one. God is showing the first century Christian what life will be like living under the New Covenant. First He opens with the four horsemen. The rider on the white horse is symbolic of a person with great authority who is also a conqueror - how many conquerors have we had in the last 2,000 years. John is simply telling the Christians that war will continue as it always had been. There have been an estimated 14,000 wars in history. 180,000,000 million people perished in the 20th century alone because of war. War is the number one tool that Satan has to destroy mankind - this is why it is listed first. Along with it all the death, starvation etc. Then he goes on to describe all of the plagues of the trumpets and bowls of wrath that the world will be living under. All of this is because of the love of God who uses these things in order to bring people to Jesus. God's workmen are meanwhile working among them in order to bring in the harvest that this pressure is producing. If the pressure were to stop like during the so called "Millennium" the harvest would also stop. There is no millennium because of this principle. It is the seals, Trumpets, and bowls that are driving the harvest. This is where the all important Revelation chapter 8 comes in. It is a picture of the normal Christian life. The prayers of the saints go up to God and He answers those prayers for healing, salvation, or whatever by casting fire on the earth which means that He is sending the Holy Spirit to fulfill his word.