The Wrath of the Lord

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ATP

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Actually, StanJ is incorrect. There will be signs before rapture...peace treaty, the third temple, first five seals, the abomination of desolation, the GT, and the sixth seal.
 

keras

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StanJ, did I say I knew the Day or the hour?

ATP, its very evident that much will happen before the Return of Jesus. What that will be is told to us throughout our Bibles. Ignoring it because of a belief of a rapture removal or just a simple inability to understand, is foolishness.
Re the 7000 year plan of God, read Hebrews 4:1-11
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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The Day of the Lord is the unknown Day.

The sequence of events in prophecy is this:

1. The one 'seven' begins. (This hasn't happened yet.)
2. The midpoint abomination.
3. The Great Tribulation
4. The sun/moon/star sign
5. The Day of the Lord with the sign if the Son of Man all will see.
6. The Rapture.

There is not 15-20 years between the sixth and seventh Seal. That is a man-made calculation.

What follows the Rapture by a short space of time when all is still is God's OT Wrath which also comes on the Day of the Lord.

Good news: we're not here for it; we'll be safe in Heaven.

This contradicts rabbi keras' teaching, which I am only too happy to do.
 

keras

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Is the fact of the exact period of 4000 years from Adam to Jesus, that nearly 2000 years have passed since Jesus and there is to come a 1000 year period of Jesus reign on earth, of no significance to you?
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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The problem with ultra-literalism is that it mistakes simile for factual equation.

Now, Hosea 6:2 not withstanding, looking for a neat 1000 years = 1 day is hardly the point of 2Pe 3:8.

This does not mean there isn't a Sabbath Millennium, it just means that neat man-derived calculations are fruitless.

They lead one to make all kinds of fallacious equations like saying every time Israel is mentioned in the OT, it is speaking of the "spiritual" Israel of the Church.
 

StanJ

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keras said:
Is the fact of the exact period of 4000 years from Adam to Jesus, that nearly 2000 years have passed since Jesus and there is to come a 1000 year period of Jesus reign on earth, of no significance to you?
Why should it be? If their was a so-called formula to know what God plans to do, then Jesus wouldn't have told us that no man can know, and that ONLY God knows. Did Jesus lie?
 

keras

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StanJ said:
Why should it be? If their was a so-called formula to know what God plans to do, then Jesus wouldn't have told us that no man can know, and that ONLY God knows. Did Jesus lie?
There is a difference between Jesus saying no one would know the Day He would come again and knowing God's plans for His people.
Amos 3:7, Isaiah 44:7-8, 2 Peter 1:19 and many others prove we can know what God has planned for the last days. Only the exact timing , we can't know, but Jesus did give us many signs that would indicate the nearness of His Return. Take heed or remain in the dark.

Please cease asking foolish questions, like did Jesus lie? And check your spelling too!
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
Amos 3:7, Isaiah 44:7-8, 2 Peter 1:19 and many others prove we can know what God has planned for the last days.
Prove: v. to establish the truth or genuineness of, as by evidence or argument.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God does nothing
Unless He reveals His secret counsel
To His servants the prophets.


Isa 44:7 'Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it;
Yes, let him recount it to Me in order,
From the time that I established the ancient nation.
And let them declare to them the things that are coming
And the events that are going to take place.

8 'Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
And you are My witnesses.
Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock?
I know of none. '"


2Pe 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.

The funny thing is NONE of the references rabbi keras pulls out of his hat actually provide evidence for what he "proclaims" - God's plan for the last days.

All they do is establish that God has a definite plan; however, rabbi keras isn't in on it, hasn't figured it out, and yet spouts off like he is God, which he isn't.
 

keras

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[SIZE=medium]God's Plan for our time:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]As 2015 nears completion, we may wonder what it is that the Lord has next for His creation. We know the story of how He destroyed an early civilization by the means of a great flood. Jesus prophesied that in the time of the end it will again be [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]‘as in the days of Noah’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. We can’t know how bad that civilization was, but it seems they just got on with life much the same as we do today. From God’s point of view, their problem was they failed to acknowledge Him or respect His Laws, so their Creator simply wiped them out and started over again, just like anything made that turns out defective is remoulded, or with breeding; try a new bloodline. Isa. 64:8, Jer. 18:6-7, Rom. 9:20-21[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So are the world’s people today as bad as those in Noah’s day? It seems likely, as evidenced by the decline in moral standards and the widespread disbelief in the Creator God. Jer. 6:18-19, Psalm 10:13, Ezekiel 20:39[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Several Bible verses tell us that God takes a keen interest in what is happening on earth. Rev. 2:23b, Job 34:21-22, Prov. 15:3, Psalm 11:4-5, Jer. 32:18-19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In our perfectly balanced and organised universe, He is playing out a drama, a set piece carefully orchestrated and arranged so that each player can choose their own role. Each person is given a conscience; a moral intuition to be aware of what is right and what is wrong, so we all make our choices as to how we live our lives. God is the just Judge, He will judge everyone according to their deeds and how each person responded in their respective situations. [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Psalm 9:7-8, Psalm 82:1-8, Eccl. 12:14, Isaiah 5:16, Jer. 25:31, John 12:31, 1 Peter 4:17[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Today, the whole world is in a precarious state, with a population of over 7 billion. There is the capacity to produce enough food and provide a reasonable lifestyle for that many, but not the altruistic desire to do so. Therefore the situation deteriorates, life is difficult and short for most and the rest live in varying degrees of satisfaction, while all mostly do not acknowledge the one true God or keep His Laws. Over 100 Bible prophesies say how God will judge the nations and punish His enemies, to once again ‘reset civilization’. Deut. 32:35, Psalm 18:7-15, Isaiah 2:12, Isaiah 30:25-28, Hab. 3:12, Zeph. 3:8, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Thess. 1:8, Jer. 23:19-20, Rev. 14:17-20[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Note that most of the prophesies about the great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, which is the next prophesied event we can expect, being the fulfilment of Psalm 83, Micah 4:11-12, Rev. 6:12-17, state that this time He will use fire to ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]set the heavens ablaze, the earth will be enveloped in flames and all that is in it will be brought to judgement’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. 2 Peter 3:10-12, Isaiah 30:25-28, Mal. 4:1, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zeph. 3:8[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]But the Lord’s people have a Powerful Advocate, He promises to protect and save His righteous people. Jer. 50:33-34, Isa. 51:16, Nahum 1:7, Psalm 60:4-5, Zech. 9:15-16[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 30:1-5 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I shall exalt You Lord, for You have lifted me up and not let enemies prevail. I cried out to You and You healed me, You saved my life as I was sinking into the abyss. Sing praises to the Lord, all you His loyal servants, give thanks to His holy name. In His anger there is punishment, but in His favour there is life. There may be distress at nightfall, but the morning will bring rejoicing.[/SIZE]


 

StanJ

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keras said:
There is a difference between Jesus saying no one would know the Day He would come again and knowing God's plans for His people.
Amos 3:7, Isaiah 44:7-8, 2 Peter 1:19 and many others prove we can know what God has planned for the last days. Only the exact timing , we can't know, but Jesus did give us many signs that would indicate the nearness of His Return. Take heed or remain in the dark.

Please cease asking foolish questions, like did Jesus lie? And check your spelling too!
Not if you understood the context and meaning of what Jesus said, but of course your a writer, so you know it all.

If you think it is foolish then you have a problem or are just avoiding answering the question. What spelling are you referring to?
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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StanJ said:
Not if you understood the context and meaning of what Jesus said, but of course your a writer, so you know it all.

If you think it is foolish then you have a problem or are just avoiding answering the question. What spelling are you referring to?
Their for there.
 

Wormwood

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keras said:
Here is a list of the ages of the patriarchs and the reigning periods of the kings that adds up to 4000 years from Adam until the commencement of Jesus ministry, not His birth.
Please advise me if you s​ee any error in this:

[SIZE=medium]Genesis 1:27 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Adam was created in[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]3970.5 BCE, 4000 years before 29.5 CE. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The start of Jesus’ ministry. Note: All years are counted from their commencement.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Gen 5:3 Seth [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+130[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:6 Enoch [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+105[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:9 Kenan [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+90[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:12 Mahalalel [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+70[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:15 Jared [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+65[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:18 Enoch [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+162[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:21 Methuselah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+65[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:25 Lamech [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+187[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 5:28 Noah[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+182[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 6:7 The Flood came when Noah was [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+600[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 11:10 Arpachshad [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+2[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+35[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 11:14 Heber [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+30[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 11:16 Peleg [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+34[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 11:18[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Reu [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+30[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 11:20 Serug [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+32[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 11:22 Nahor [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+30[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] , Gen 11:24 Terah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+29[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Gen 11:26 Abram [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+70[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Abraham was [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+99[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] when the Covenant was made with God.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Total years so far = 2047[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Torah was given [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+430[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]2477[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], that is: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]1493.5 BCE[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. [Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.][/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+480[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] since Torah and the Exodus.. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Total years so far = 2957[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+36[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+17[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+3[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Chron 16:13 Asa [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+41[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+25[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+8[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+1[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+6[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 12:1-3 Joash [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+40[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 14:1-2 Amaziah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+29[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+52[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 15:32 Jotham [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+16[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 16:1-2 Ahaz [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+16[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+29[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+55[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 21:19 Amon [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+2[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 22:1-2 Josiah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+31[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 22:31 Jehoahaz +[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]3mths[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoiakim [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+11[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]3mths[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], 2 Kings 24:18 Zedekiah [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]+11,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] who ruled until the Babylonian conquest of Judah in [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]586 BCE[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Total years to the 1st exile of Judah = 3386.5.[/SIZE] From [SIZE=medium]3386.5 add 613.5 = 4000 years.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Take 613.5 minus 586 plus 2 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]comes to [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]29.5 CE, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the date of Jesus’ baptism.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Luke 3:1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years.] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]586 BCE + 2015.5 CE - 2 = 2599.5 years since the known date of the Jewish Exile.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Minus 2 for the current system of counting the year from its commencement. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Therefore: 2599.5 + 3386.5 = [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]5986 years is the present age of mankind. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium][June 2015] [/SIZE]
​So the Millennium has not started, must be 14/15 years away.
keras,

I hope you are right. I would love it if Jesus' return was 14 years away (and even more if it was today!). However, I would be very cautious about how you present this material. There is a very good chance (like all the other date/year calculations) that 2029 will come and go and if you keep presenting your information this way, you will cause many to lose faith in the Scriptures, when its really your interpretive method and numbers you have provided (along with a spurious assumption of a 7,000 year human history based on a metaphor in Psalms combined with Sabbath imagery). So, I am fine with it if this is your view. I just encourage you to emphasize, "this is my view, and I could be wrong." Otherwise you confuse what Scripture clearly teaches with your projections based on various genealogies you have incorporated, metaphors and an assumed total age of human history. So, again, i would be cautious with how you present this. Its fine to have theories, but it is not fine to confuse your theory with what Scripture actually teaches. And I think you must admit that Scripture does not actually teach a 7,000 total time for human history or that God is actually counting human history based on 1 day = 1,000 years...and I dont have the time to check all your math and reference which particular genealogies you are utilizing in comparison with other genealogies provided in the Bible. I'll just take it that your numbers are reliable. Personally, I think the teaching of Revelation has little to do with such issues though. It is more about how you live today in light of the deception and persecution around us than predicting a time or season for the return. But again, I hope you are right. I would nothing more than the Lord's return in my lifetime.
 
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keras

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Thanks Wormwood. I can understand your concerns about date setting, Harold Camping comes to mind!

However, what I present above isn't my theory, but Biblical facts. This list was originally given to me by a Messianic Jew.

What we will see in our lifetimes, will be truly amazing, we are privileged to be alive at this time of human history.

BTW, I DID make a mistake: it will be 15/16 years before the Return in 2029.5.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Stating opinion as fact and man-made calculations as truth is hardly being cautious.

The fact is that none of us knows when we will "meet" the Lord with our death, so each day ought to remind us it might be our last, but how soon we forget!

As far as the Returning Anew of Christ Jesus, it will not be in 2029.5... anymore than the 88 reasons He was going to come in 1988 or the 89 reasons He would come in 1989! (Actual book titles by the way...)

I do not find it amusing to try to "box' God in to neat little formulas. Our minds are not like His Mind, and any attempt to dictate to God will be fruitless.

That said, the Day of the Lord will have events which happen before it as Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse. This keystone passage is the key to unlocking end-time prophecy.

When that "unknown" Day comes, we will be saved, and then God will trample out His Wrath in Israel, the first of many desolations to affect the earth and ultimately reduce the wicked to nothing.
 

keras

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More opinions stated as fact by Marcus.
I like how he included himself in those who will be saved. Pre-judged are you?
Marcus' beliefs about when the wrath of the Lord happens, doesn't fit Revelation. It seems like you are 'dictating to God'.

Saying what I posted is all man-made calculations is a lie.
 

keras

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StanJ said:
IMO, you are the only one doing that keras.
YOUR opinion, Stan.
What is happening on this forum, is sheer foolishness. I post Bible truths and am told they are mans ideas and my opinions. The three posters who are determined to denigrate me, spend all their efforts and waste the forum space on pulling me down by every means they can.
Let me tell you all, whether I'm right or wrong, your attitude toward a fellow Christian will be judged. The fact of Bible passages being just dismissed out of hand will count against you.
Are you all quite comfortable and ready to stand in the presence of the Son of Man? May be sooner than you think.