The Wrath of the Lord

keras said:

It isn't the Day of the Lord's Return that comes next.
If you read properly what I point out from the prophesies, it will be the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath that will come unexpecedly. Going to heaven? I don't see that anywhere.

In your first point above, you say the 'beast' will rise to power and make a peace covenant with 'many'. How does this 'beast' gain power? Who are the 'many'?
You miss out all that must happen to enable this scenario to take place.

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This really is pathetic. I give specific references and tie them together with supporting Scripture and all rabbi keras can say is that with his 20/100 vision, is that he can't see it re anywhere? And for a rabbi to say that only his pointing to prophecy to a fantasy solar explosion (set in Isaiah on a day God heals) that we don't read it properly? What hubris!

And if that isn't enough, the rabbi has no idea how the fourth terrible beast gets its power, nor has he any clue on who the many are. Yet he sets himself up as judge to say what must come first when Jesus already has? This is foolishness.
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I'm not done, but my ability to post via smartphone is limited. I will lay specific and multiple reference which only the foolish will deny later.

So according to rabbi keras, who fashions himself the wizard of truth and a messenger of God - there is no Rapture on the Day of the Lord... yeah, right.

Here are some relevant verses which say otherwise:

Mt 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

In verse 29, Jesus tells us the order of Great Tribulation and then the sun/moon/star event which precedes the Day of the Lord as is said by Joel 2:31:
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
In verse 30 Jesus appears, and all will see Him. This is His parousia.
In verse 31, Jesus sequentially sets the gathering of the Elect as happening. There is no word of Wrath for the Church because it does not apply to us. The examples Jesus gave us in the Olivet Discourse account are Noah and Lot who were both rescued before God's Wrath rained down (and quite literally in both cases too) on the wicked.
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Going on, Paul also links the Rapture to Jesus' coming.

2Th 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him,

This 1:2 is also set with Jesus coming first, and then the subsequent gathering.
Again, Paul had previously stated in 1Th 1:10 that we are rescued from the coming Wrath of God.
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Finally, in another account of the Harvest from the detailed account of the one 'seven' in Revelation chapters 13-16, which is parallel to the Seal/Scroll chronology of chapters 4-11, is this:

Rev 14:14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

The imagery of verse 14 matches that which Jesus gave in Mt 24:30; He comes on the clouds.
In verse 15, the Harvest is commenced, and
In verse 16 it is concluded.

Remember the parable of the wheat and tares? The tares are gathered and taken into the barn (of Heaven) and then the tares (which are collected, not gathered) are burned in the field of this world.
And true to nature, the very next action on the Day of the Lord is this:

Rev 14:17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

This is God's Wrath, and both elements of fire and blood are also portrayed after the Great Multitude are delivered to Heaven with the breaking of the seventh Seal, which opens the Scroll, and the first Trumpet which sounds once the Scroll is opened supplying both fire and blood.

For someone who thinks Isaiah 30:26 means that the sun explodes,
for someone who can't see a Rapture,
for someone who maniacally applies a day equals a thousand years,
and for someone who mistakenly applies every passage for natural Israel in the Old Testament to the New Testament Church


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Now as to the "rise" of the fourth terrible beast, how is rarely explained in the Bible.

Here is where it is:

Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.
Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.

There are two entities here: the dragon, and a beast with seven heads and ten horns.
The "sea" in Hebrew terms refers even from the time of the prophets to the Mediterranean Sea, and that term would also apply to a "sea of people" referring to Europe mostly.
Note that the beast is made up of the first three beasts of Daniel 7.
Those beasts represented nations.
That means that the beast coming out of the sea (of peoples: Europe, i.e., Rome) is a nation.
Indeed, I conclude that the conglomeration of these three nations into one super-nation is the fourth terrible beast.
This is confirmed by Daniel:
7:7 After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
Notice that Daniel does not mention the seven heads...

The dragon, which is mentioned first, is able to convey to this beast of a nation its power, throne, and great authority.
Now who was it that offered Jesus the world? Satan.
Who is it that has claim to this world so as to be able to convey title (throne)? Satan.
ha-Satan (the Satan) is the dragon.
Satan is the strongman of this world.
Jesus has overcome Satan, and He is able to bind him and He will rob his house of us.

So the two entities here are Satan and the fourth terrible beast of a nation.

There are multiple beasts and dragons in Revelation, so understanding who John is referring to must be set in the context of the passage in which he brings up each label. Here we see the first of each one used.

John moves seamlessly from the first beast of a nation to another beast.

Rev 13:3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast;

This is not the beast of a nation, but "one of its heads".
The seven heads are partially explained, but not thoroughly, later on in Revelation after the detailed parallel account of the one 'seven' in chapters 13-16.

Rev 17:9 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,
This points to Rome, where the harlot sits upon the beast which also has seven heads and ten horns.
Typically, this beast is pictured as a dragon, and for good reason.
Remember there is not a single equation of dragon = Satan.
The woman who is a harlot is like the woman Israel in Ezekiel 16 who plays the prostitute to the nations of the world as well.
She can be thought of as God's betrothed who went astray like the nation of Israel.
In this case, sitting on Rome, I conclude that the Harlot is the corrupted Roman Catholic Church.
This is confirmed by history in which the Papacy worked with the Roman Empire and became politically involved.

10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
Here is another equation for the "heads" as being people.
This is very important.
At the time of the "end" - that is, the one 'seven' - John is looking at a lineage of Kings.
Five have "fallen" - that is, they have already passed. Who these terrible Kings were is not important.
One "is": That is important too. At the time of the end, one King stands out.
Another King has not yet come at the time of the one 'seven'.
This is perplexing unless you accept that the Millennium exists, then it does make sense.
This is because after the Millennium, Satan is released and the whole of the earth rises in rebellion - even after the peace.
One person leads this revolt - that is the last of the "heads" of this beast of a nation, which is a conglomeration of men.
His time is short; the manner in which Satan deceives the world after the Millennium is swift and abruptly ends.

Viewed in this manner, the seven "heads" are God's view over the expanse of time as a succession of Kings.
This explains why Daniel did not see seven of them; he only saw a snapshot in time at the end.

So another definition of a beast is that is can refer to a man.
In Rev 13:3 a beast of a man is pictured.
This beast of a man rules the beast of a nation: there are two beasts.
It is the anti-Christ that the world adores.
He suffers a false death, has a false resurrection (being healed), and he becomes a false Christ (anti-Christ).
When his talking image is erected in the Temple, you will be forced to worship him or you will die.
DO NOT OBEY THIS MAN-MADE LAW.

Just as heads are not just mountains, and beast is not just a nation, so too with dragon. I'll get to that in the next post.

Towards the end of the one 'seven', is this cryptic insight into the evil which will overtake the world:

Rev 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons,
Here we have three entities: a dragon, a beast, and a false prophet.
Now this is the first time that "false prophet" is used in the book of Revelation.
John uses this term later on in the epilogue account of Rev 19-22 twice.
Both times it is paired with "the beast".
This beast can rightly be seen as being the beast of a man in Rev 13:3.

Going back to Revelation chapter 13, there is a second beast of a man who rises: the beast of the land.
Rev 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.
This second beast of a man differs from the first, but he supports the first and acts in duo.
(This one-two arrangement is also where George Lucas borrowed the idea for the Sith always having a mentor-apprentice duality.)
The "land" stands in opposition to "sea" and can generally be thought of as the land of Israel.
As a prophet, he would also have authority over the Temple.
The talking image is set in the Temple according to Paul.
Jesus said the abomination of desolation would be in the "Holy Place".
Biblically speaking, that is in the Temple, but outside of the "Most Holy Place" behind the Curtain.

This second beast of a man also has the authority to make "fire come down" in the presence of men.
This may refer to a weapon of war.
The Sanhedrin have been reconstituted and by the way, the military has conferred with them over affairs of state and war.
This has already happened.
If you haven't been "watching" - here is the news article showing how the rabbis in Israel are in charge.
And if you don't know, Israel has nuclear weapons. So too now does Iran... and Israel will defend itself...

My conclusion here with the interaction between the first and second beasts of men is that the second is the "false prophet".
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Now let's go back to our quote:

Rev 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons,
The false prophet is the second beast of a man.
So the beast, is it a man, or the nation?
If it is the nation, who is the dragon?

Now as "the" Satan is the dragon of Rev 13:1 - does the supreme demon need demonic empowerment?
No.
ha-Satan or "the" Satan stands next to Jesus and the Angels in power, being a fallen Angel himself.
He is powerful enough to vie with God for control, and indeed, he controls this earth having the authority to offer it to Jesus and the fourth terrible beast of a nation.
Satan does not need to be infused with demonic spirit.
So the "dragon" here cannot be "the" Satan.
However, it is being led to war at Armageddon.
We know the anti-Christ, the King of the North, is leading his faction to war.
It therefore follows that the dragon pictured here is going to Armageddon as well - which ends up in a Pyrrhic victory for the anti-Christ.

It is my conclusion that this dragon is the same serpent beast the harlot rides in Revelation chapter 17.
There is more than one dragon in the book of Revelation, just as not all heads are hills and not all beasts are nations.

Since this dragon is not Satan, but the fourth terrible beast, the beast mentioned in Rev 16:13 is not a nation, but the first beast of a man: the anti-Christ.
This is the same beast (of a man) pictured with the false prophet in Revelation chapters 19 and 20.

Here in Rev 16;13 we see that a nation is also a spiritual entity, and adopting the mental concept of a persona to Kingdom helps explain the "eighth" aspect to the multi-headed beast: it is more than just words on a piece of paper saying it is a nation - it is something in the spiritual realm which actually takes physical form.

Thus all three inferior players to Satan, are controlled by Satan, and indeed, empowered spiritually by him through these unclean spirits who are demons, but in God's view, are like frogs. (rabbi keras would say they ARE amphibians!)

So it doesn't matter how rabbi keras says the fourth terrible beast or the beast of a man, the anti-Christ gains power - God has revealed this truth to us through Jesus to John: it is Satanic.
And as the book of Daniel establishes God's authority over the nations, even those imbued by Satan, ultimately God is in control and He allows this to happen.
And this is all part of His Plan.
And His Plan is perfect.
And God can use even the demonic to accomplish it, just as He used a lying spirit to lead the King of Israel to war in 1Kings 22:22.

keras said:

All this is fully supported by scripture.

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None quoted. None explained. Don't worry; trust him: he's a rabbi.

What a mish-mash. It looks like a plate of spaghetti thrown up onto the board...
No rhyme or reason, no order within or without.
Let's just post "fire" verses with "Day of the Lord" verses and somehow - and you can trust the rabbi: Trix are for kids - it all goes together.
Ooh! Ooh! I like how rabbi keras re-writes Isaiah 30:26 combining it with something unrelated to the day God heals.

The fact is, is that when Jesus comes back, we are gathered up.
Afterward, God's Wrath falls on unrepentant Israel and the wicked.

I gave Scripture in context, in order, and with short, simple exegesis to explain it.

You do a word search and put the results up without any particular order, no commentary, no context, and jumble them all together. You are a poor student; you are a terrible teacher - rabbi.

You are quite ignorant of what anyone else tells you, fancying yourself as God's only true messenger; you try to dictate, but to no avail.

You have no idea what my eschatology is, because I have no "last days theory", nor do you have the faintest clue about "sequence" and you only use it because I introduced not only the term, but the very methodology that allows me to integrate multiple and parallel accounts into a single holistic timeline of events from the major linear narratives of end-time prophecy.

You don't even know what that means.

You're still stuck on stupid: claiming the sun shining seven times brighter on a day God heals - means the sun explodes and kills people.

Totally unscientific, pure fantasy, and we find you borrow your ideas. Coronal mass ejections from the sun do not hurl blobs of live plasma across space. Sunspots loop plasma around along magnetic lines and it falls back into the sun due to gravitational force. What matter, if any, does get flung loose quickly cools in the vacuum of space where is near absolute zero Kelvin.

When the sunspots erupt, their affect is felt as an electro-magnetic pulse. The reason governments that operate in space monitor for such things is not because they fear God's coming Wrath; but rather that they want to be able to protect those sensitive electrical components they operate in the extremely hazardous environment of space. Likewise, they have a duty to take precautions to the earth-bound electrical power grid.

Liking how aircraft are vaporized is not only totally unscientific; it is just an evil wish that your foil be vanquished, which is also rather childish albeit weird.

http://s49.photobucket.com/user/marcus_o_reillius/media/comics/Non%20Sequitur%20-%20wrong-right_zpsgbpebmjv.gif.html?sort=3&o=0

keras said:

Marcus' vehement denials of what the Lord can and will do, using the sun as His source of the fire that is so often prophesied and detailed in our Bibles, shows his lack of understanding of God's plans and his 'head in the sand' attitude.

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For someone who misappropriates applicability of sundry Bible verses, and who cannot even correct himself on the applicability of Isaiah 30:26 - you have no credibility to judge whose understanding is lacking.