We must be born again to be God's kingdom.

mjrhealth said:

I doubt if theer is one here who has problems with wate rbaptism, they have simply not a requirement for salvation.. As for Batism

Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

What was He speaking of here, teh cup of His suffering, His prayer at the rock, and His baptism of death.

That we have John

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Than we have Jesus Himself declare

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

I will add that a friend of mine has a daughter who has already being with and spoken to Christ, and yet only know does she desire to get baptized. How we limit God.

He confirmed what John had spoken

Than we have again,

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

And that is how we are baptized, washed in His Blood, clothed in His righteousness.

In all His Love

Click to expand...

:unsure: Mj....is English not your native language?
I mean, it's okay if it is not, of course...
I'm just wondering because sometimes your posts are kinda hard to decipher.

Anyway, as I said....I'm not prepared to say whether baptism is or is not "necessary" to salvation. To tell the truth, I'm a bit put off by the kind of attitude that would worry about whether or not it is "necessary"....it sounds a bit as if some folks are just trying to get by with as little effort as possible.

Is it "necessary"? I dunno...but I do know that Jesus was baptized:






Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


And then we have these scriptures:

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus was baptized.
Paul was baptized.

Is it "necessary"? What a foolish question.

The Barrd said:

it sounds a bit as if some folks are just trying to get by with as little effort as possible.

Click to expand...

What effort? You are dumping water on your head. That takes as much effort as turning off the t.v. when fox news comes on.

:unsure: Mj....is English not your native language?
I mean, it's okay if it is not, of course...
I'm just wondering because sometimes your posts are kinda hard to decipher.

Click to expand...

always finding fault and you speak of love. just bad typing gets worse as i get older. maybe im just human. But wait and see what God will do with me.

In all His most Glorious Love

ATP said:

What effort? You are dumping water on your head. That takes as much effort as turning off the t.v. when fox news comes on.

Click to expand...

That's kinda my point, ATP.
Thank you for clarifying it for me.

mjrhealth said:

always finding fault and you speak of love. just bad typing gets worse as i get older. maybe im just human. But wait and see what God will do with me.

In all His most Glorious Love

Click to expand...

No offense intended. I just wondered, is all.
We're all "just human", Mj.
Even me.

ATP said:

We are only made holy through the blood of Jesus Barrd.

Click to expand...

And only Jesus can see our heart, ATP.

tom55 said:

The Barrd said:

On the other hand, baptism is a step of obedience to Jesus Christ.
Is it "necessary"? That's debatable. I'm not prepared to say that it is "necessary" or it is not "necessary".


I wonder how one of the criminals (I think his name was Tom55 ) that was hanging on the cross next to Jesus got to heaven when there is no indication he was baptized? Jesus said to him "....Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Or how do children get to heaven if they haven't been baptized until the "age of reason" as some churches practice? Makes one wonder if baptism is "necessary" to get to "paradise"!!

Click to expand...

My point was that it is not necessary. It wasn't necessary for the criminal hanging on the cross next to Jesus and it isn't necessary for children who die prior to being baptized. Baptism is preferable (recommended, whatever word you want to use) if you have the opportunity, but not necessary.

I disagree with you on this. Because the Holy Spirit who applies Christ's blessing on the ungodly blows where ever it pleases. Christ came to heal the sick not the well. He came to redeem sinners and ungodly, not the righteous. Read these passages in Luke 18:


The Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Its not the one who thought he was righteous and not like other men (sinners). If you think you are without sin, then you deceive yourself and call God a liar. The Law of God convicts us of our sinful condition before a Holy God. The Law condemns us of our sins before a Holy God. We are under the curse of the Law. But the Law also drives us to Christ who is the Redeemer of sinners! Our hope for sinners! Our Salvation for sinners! Our righteousness for sinners!

​The Law only brings de​ath to sinners. And the Gospel gives eternal rest for the ungodly. And without the Spirit we cannot understand the things of God. We need to be born again in order to understand and love God. Otherwise we still remain in our hostile minds toward God.
​

ladodgers6 said:

I disagree with you on this. Because the Holy Spirit who applies Christ's blessing on the ungodly blows where ever it pleases. Christ came to heal the sick not the well. He came to redeem sinners and ungodly, not the righteous. Read these passages in Luke 18:

The Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Its not the one who thought he was righteous and not like other men (sinners). If you think you are without sin, then you deceive yourself and call God a liar. The Law of God convicts us of our sinful condition before a Holy God. The Law condemns us of our sins before a Holy God. We are under the curse of the Law. But the Law also drives us to Christ who is the Redeemer of sinners! Our hope for sinners! Our Salvation for sinners! Our righteousness for sinners!

​The Law only brings de​ath to sinners. And the Gospel gives eternal rest for the ungodly. And without the Spirit we cannot understand the things of God. We need to be born again in order to understand and love God. Otherwise we still remain in our hostile minds toward God.
​

Click to expand...

I see nothing in your statement or quote from scripture that says anything about having to be baptized to go to heaven.

ATP said:

and it's still not a requirement for salvation. we are only saved by grace through faith.

Click to expand...

ONLY saved by grace thru faith?

Scripture says more than that: "baptism now saves you" and "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" and "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" and "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" and "unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" and "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" and "having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him" and "man is justified by works and not by faith alone".


It appears to me scripture says one needs more than just faith...but I could be wrong.

tom55 said:

ONLY saved by grace thru faith?

Scripture says more than that: "baptism now saves you" and "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" and "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" and "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" and "unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" and "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" and "having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him" and "man is justified by works and not by faith alone".


It appears to me scripture says one needs more than just faith...but I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

I suspect that each of us will be judged separately...there is no "one size fits all" judgment. To whom much is given, much is also required.

Personally, I don't see any reason we should not be baptized. Jesus was baptized...surely, if it was good enough for my Lord and my God, it is good enough for his humble barrd...

tom55 said:

ONLY saved by grace thru faith?

Scripture says more than that: "baptism now saves you" and "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" and "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" and "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" and "unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" and "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" and "having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him" and "man is justified by works and not by faith alone".


It appears to me scripture says one needs more than just faith...but I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

Hi tom. Do you believe one can lose their salvation, or do you believe God's grace keeps you saved until the end. Not sure your stance.

There are at least 4 NT passages which clearly teach that
habitual unrepentant sinners cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Born-again believers can easily be in this sinning group!
See that you are not.

ATP said:

Hi tom. Do you believe one can lose their salvation, or do you believe God's grace keeps you saved until the end. Not sure your stance.

Click to expand...

Yes, a person can Absolutely loose salvation. I believe anyone who does not do what is right (sin), nor love his brother or sisters is not God’s child. They are the child of the devil. I am not aware of anything I have done to loose salvation, but it will be the Lord who judges me on the last day of my life. I know I have to fight the good fight everyday until I have finished the race. If you sin without repenting, you loose salvation.

Zachary said:

There are at least 4 NT passages which clearly teach that
habitual unrepentant sinners cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Born-again believers can easily be in this sinning group!
See that you are not.

Click to expand...

tom55 said:

Yes, a person can Absolutely loose salvation. I believe anyone who does not do what is right (sin), nor love his brother or sisters is not God’s child. They are the child of the devil. I am not aware of anything I have done to loose salvation, but it will be the Lord who judges me on the last day of my life. I know I have to fight the good fight everyday until I have finished the race. If you sin without repenting, you loose salvation.

Click to expand...

We've been adopted into a family...John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV

Jesus died for past, present and future sins...Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

We belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

We are written in the book of life forever...Luke 10:18-20 NIV, Phil 4:3 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 13:8 NIV, Rev 17:8 NIV, Rev 20:12-15 NIV, Rev 21:27 NIV

There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

Once we believe, we have eternal life...John 3:14-16 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, John 4:13-14 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 5:39-43 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, John 17:1-3 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 5:21 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 Thess 2:16-17 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 John 1:1-4 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV, 1 John 5:20 NIV

We are heirs to Christ...Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV

We have an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade...Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

We are only justified once...Acts 13:39 NIV, Rom 3:24-28 NIV, Rom 4:2 NIV, Rom 4:25 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:30 NIV, Rom 8:33 ESV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV, 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, Gal 2:16-17 NIV, Gal 3:11 NIV, Gal 3:24 NIV, Gal 5:4 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV

God will lose none of the elect...John 6:35-40 NIV, John 17:9-10 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, Rom 5:5 NIV

Nonbelievers are considered lost, not believers...Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

Overcoming is based on belief, not works...John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

It's not our works that keep us saved, it's His...Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 1 Tim 4:10 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

We are sealed until the day of redemption...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

The seed of God that is in us is imperishable...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Luke 8:11 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV

The truth will be in us forever...Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV

We are victorious by our belief in Jesus, not by works...Prov 21:31 NIV, John 16:33 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 2:7 NIV, Rev 2:11 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV, Rev 21:7-8 NIV

And to save the best for last, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.

- ATP

ATP said:

And to save the best for last, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God
...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but your best is ridiculous!
The habitual unrepentant born-again believer ...
is separated from the love of God as far as salvation is concerned!

Perhaps the cause of your confusion is that you're readin' the Nearly Inspired Version.

Zachary said:

Sorry, but your best is ridiculous!
The habitual unrepentant born-again believer ...
is separated from the love of God as far as salvation is concerned!

Perhaps the cause of your confusion is that you're readin' the Nearly Inspired Version.

Click to expand...

No not really. Rom 8:35, 38-39 says the born again believer is not separated from the love of God and never will be. To be in Christ is salvation.

Rom 8:39 NIV neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The ATP ...

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 21:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1) He who overcomes is not the one who just believes that Jesus is the Son of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Instead, check out Revelation 3:21.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) Verse 8 applies to absolutely everyone on planet earth,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]even your most precious born-again believers![/SIZE]

Zachary said:

The ATP ...

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 21:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1) He who overcomes is not the one who just believes that Jesus is the Son of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Instead, check out Revelation 3:21.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) Verse 8 applies to absolutely everyone on planet earth,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]even your most precious born-again believers![/SIZE]

Click to expand...

No, verse 8 applies to the unsaved, not the saved/born again people.

Zachary said:

The ATP ...

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 21:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1) He who overcomes is not the one who just believes that Jesus is the Son of God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Instead, check out Revelation 3:21.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) Verse 8 applies to absolutely everyone on planet earth,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]even your most precious born-again believers![/SIZE]

Click to expand...

1. Overcoming is based on belief, not works..John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV. Victory is only through the blood of Jesus, not works..Prov 21:31 NIV, John 16:33 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV.

2. Incorrect, we overcome by believing in the resurrection, not by our filthy works. Rom 8:38 NIV says that neither death nor life can separate the elect from God, and the lake of fire is the second death. We are also sealed until the day of redemption Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV. How can a believer lose his salvation when Jesus paid the sin penalty Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV.

- ATp