Is The World Flat?

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So you have no problem with videos while Skyping but you have a problem with videos taken from any of the spacecraft that have been up in orbit around Earth over the past 40 years or so? Isn't that convenient! Sucks when your own strategy is used against you, doesn't it?

You're quite an incorrigible individual, Stan. You smugly twist all opposing views into incomprehensible linguistic pretzels. I have no problem with the concept of video itself. It's only when images are purposely digitally manipulated so as to deceive and falsify the results that I object.

If you objectively examine NASA's images (instead of blindly accepting all of them as genuine) you'll see that they are fraught with anomalies and blatant image manipulations. On one image of the "blue marble" the North American continent, for example, is much larger than another one taken later while both size globe circles are the same size. This is an obvious glaring fraud. In others, cloud formations are obviously repeatedly cut 'n pasted. There is not a single genuine photograph of the earth taken from space that shows the entirety of our world and the creator of the so-called "blue marble" image has admitted that he took great liberties in stitching together many different images and spending hours meticulously photo-shopping that famous shot.


All Joshua was concerned about was to that he had daylight. If I asked somebody to build me a watch, I don't care about how they do it and I don't need to understand it, to get a watch. God knew what Joshua wanted and gave it to him, he didn't have to take the time to explain the science to him, what you never would have understood anyway, pretty much the same way you don't understand science now.

Well then, you have a problem in taking the Bible literally because the Word of God clearly states in the tenth chapter of Joshua that the Sun & Moon were stopped in the heavens and in the other passage I quoted that the earth is built upon a foundation that shall not be subject to motion. You apparently don't believe what the sacred text plainly declares. You'd rather believe the lab coat priesthood and the Copernican Freemasons than the Word of God.


Not what I asked. When you look up in the sky and see the full moon, what shape is it?

We only ever see one side of the moon and it could just as likely be a flat luminous translucent disk. There are also no genuine images of the dark side of the moon. The latest NASA released video of the transit of the dark side of the moon over the earth was laughable. Many experiments have recently been done that demonstrate that the light from the moon is NOT a reflection of the sun as the scientists falsely claim. The moon generates its own light and surprisingly objects measured in moonlight here on earth are about ten degrees Fahrenheit cooler than objects in the shade of the moonlight.

Telescopes are not computer graphics. Telescopes reflect what is actually in space.

Yes, however, the images that NASA shows us are not pristine photographs from a telescope but digitally altered images. There are videos where they admit this.



Do you even know what the firmament is?

The firmament is a celestial canopy above us that separates the waters above from the waters below just as the first Book of Genesis describes. (Gen. 1:6-8) Inside the firmament reside the lights of the heavens the sun, moon and stars.


Have you ever looked through a telescope?

Yes, I own an 8" Meade reflector and a good pair of zoom binoculars as well.


Have you ever taken a flight in a plane? Did you look out the window?

Yes, many times. The windows in aircraft are quite thick plastic and what you see from them, especially the view across the edges is often distorted. There are several Youtube videos of seasoned pilots who admit that from their vantage point in the cockpit he earth is completely flat (no apparent curvature whatsoever). These guys fly practically every day and testify that the earth is flat.


Have you ever seen God?

No, not visually. However, I've experienced a number of personal divine interventions in my life that leave no doubt in my mind and heart as to His continual guiding presence. Praise be to God and glory be to His Son Christ Jesus!
 

StanJ

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James Forthwright said:
You're quite an incorrigible individual, Stan. You smugly twist all opposing views into incomprehensible linguistic pretzels. I have no problem with the concept of video itself. It's only when images are purposely digitally manipulated so as to deceive and falsify the results that I object.
Well if that's what you think then that must be the reason why you don't understand basic common English?
You actually have to be able to prove that videos are digitally manipulated to depict something that us false, not just claim they are. What you do is common among conspirators. You obviously don't understand the science behind digital photography and rendering.
James Forthwright said:
If you objectively examine NASA's images (instead of blindly accepting all of them as genuine) you'll see that they are fraught with anomalies and blatant image manipulations. On one image of the "blue marble" the North American continent, for example, is much larger than another one taken later while both size globe circles are the same size. This is an obvious glaring fraud. In others, cloud formations are obviously repeatedly cut 'n pasted. There is not a single genuine photograph of the earth taken from space that shows the entirety of our world and the creator of the so-called "blue marble" image has admitted that he took great liberties in stitching together many different images and spending hours meticulously photo-shopping that famous shot.
Well I guess you get a fail in this then because you're not objective whatsoever. It's probably best to let somebody who understands digital photography and computer rendering and is qualified in that science to detect whether or not a photograph has been manipulated to depict something that is not factual.
James Forthwright said:
Well then, you have a problem in taking the Bible literally because the Word of God clearly states in the tenth chapter of Joshua that the Sun & Moon were stopped in the heavens and in the other passage I quoted that the earth is built upon a foundation that shall not be subject to motion. You apparently don't believe what the sacred text plainly declares. You'd rather believe the lab coat priesthood and the Copernican Freemasons than the Word of God.
I have no problem at all taking the Bible literally when it is meant to be literal, or figuratively when it is meant to be figurative, or metaphorically when it is meant to be metaphorical, or see hyperbole when it is meant to be hyperbolic. You see I completely understand hermeneutical exegesis and you sir have no idea how to properly read and interpolate the Bible.
James Forthwright said:
We only ever see one side of the moon and it could just as likely be a flat luminous translucent disk. There are also no genuine images of the dark side of the moon. The latest NASA released video of the transit of the dark side of the moon over the earth was laughable. Many experiments have recently been done that demonstrate that the light from the moon is NOT a reflection of the sun as the scientists falsely claim. The moon generates its own light and surprisingly objects measured in moonlight here on earth are about ten degrees Fahrenheit cooler than objects in the shade of the moonlight.
In other words you refuse to see what your eyes tell you and go with what your pre dispositional bias is?
But I have to say the only thing laughable here is you. All you have to do to see the Dark Side of the Moon is to look up during a solar eclipse. But of course use caution when you do that because we wouldn't want you to become physically blind to match your intellectual blindness.
James Forthwright said:
Yes, however, the images that NASA shows us are not pristine photographs from a telescope but digitally altered images. There are videos where they admit this.
I'm talking about you looking through an actual telescope, not how they gather the data to present it afterwards in pictures.
James Forthwright said:
The firmament is a celestial canopy above us that separates the waters above from the waters below just as the first Book of Genesis describes. (Gen. 1:6-8) Inside the firmament reside the lights of the heavens the sun, moon and stars.
It's called the 'sky' and above the sky there is no longer a canopy of water because it was dissipated during the great flood. There's nothing in the sky but clouds and weather patterns along with all the various planes that fly around the globe. Are all the millions of people that have flown around the Earth lying to us as well?
James Forthwright said:
Yes, I own an 8" Meade reflector and a good pair of zoom binoculars as well.
Good, now take your Meade reflector or your binoculars, along with a basketball, to a field at least 100 yards long. Put the basketball at one end of the field and you go to the other end and look at your basketball. What do you see? Can you tell that your basketball is a sphere or do only see a flat disk? Does your perception change with the reality of the basketball is? Now you do the rationalization and if you don't get it then there's no hope for you because you are blinded by your own bias.
James Forthwright said:
Yes, many times. The windows in aircraft are quite thick plastic and what you see from them, especially the view across the edges is often distorted. There are several Youtube videos of seasoned pilots who admit that from their vantage point in the cockpit he earth is completely flat (no apparent curvature whatsoever). These guys fly practically every day and testify that the earth is flat.
All of these claims are second-and third-hand reports from people who say they have friends that are pilots. There is not one provable story I have seen where it is an actual pilot that has made any claim that the Earth is flat.

Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
To debunk the Flat Earth theory, you can just use Sydney to Santiago, Chile, Quantas flight 27, 7000 miles. 12 hour flight. This flight would be impossible on the Flat Earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound.
James Forthwright said:
No, not visually. However, I've experienced a number of personal divine interventions in my life that leave no doubt in my mind and heart as to His continual guiding presence. Praise be to God and glory be to His Son Christ Jesus!
So you have faith in an invisible God but you don't have faith in what you actually see? How convenient.
 

Wormwood

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James, I appreciate your commitment to the Bible, though I find your thinking incredibly misguided. Your insistence of making a flat earth a test of faith does nothing but push those who do not know Christ further away from the truth. You are majoring in minors, my friend.
 

Dcopymope

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Wormwood said:
James, I appreciate your commitment to the Bible, though I find your thinking incredibly misguided. Your insistence of making a flat earth a test of faith does nothing but push those who do not know Christ further away from the truth. You are majoring in minors, my friend.
Flat earth is a test of ones faith to him? Really? Someone really needs to get his priorities straight if this is the case.
 

Born_Again

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lforrest said:
Nothing should be safe from criticism in general, so that all beliefs should stand or fall by their own merits.

However I believe we have entertained this flat earth belief long enough. Can we close this topic now?
I agree, this thread has run it's course. I will have it closed.

God Bless,

BA
 
Oct 22, 2011
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Stan states:
I have no problem at all taking the Bible literally when it is meant to be literal, or figuratively when it is meant to be figurative, or metaphorically when it is meant to be metaphorical, or see hyperbole when it is meant to be hyperbolic. You see I completely understand hermeneutical exegesis and you sir have no idea how to properly read and interpolate the Bible.

Says the guy who quotes hypocritical Pharisees as proof texts of veracity. SMH I fully understand that the Flat Earth concept seems, at first glance, utterly preposterous. This is primarily due to the fact that from the first time we entered grade school there was a prerequisite globe in every classroom and a thoroughly indoctrinated government approved instructor to instill the pseudo-science and anti-biblical concepts of spinning planets, cosmic big bang and Darwin's evolution theory into blank slate minds of young children. As adults, we are free to question what we've been taught and reject such astronomical fallacies, fanciful space travel, as well as Santa Claus' flying reindeer.

Though there certainly are many times where the Bible is , indeed, speaking metaphorically those are the exceptions to rule. I believe that God did not metaphorically part the Red Sea for Moses. Nor did He metaphorically raise His Son Jesus from the grave or metaphorically stop the Sun & Moon for Joshua. I believe what the scriptural text plainly states. It is only your convoluted pseudo-scientific indoctrination that compels you to explain away sacred literal texts into mere phrases of hyperbole.


In other words you refuse to see what your eyes tell you and go with what your pre dispositional bias is?

No Stan, Our God-given senses clearly reveals that there is nothing but motionless stability here on earth and nothing but panoramic flat horizons to observe all around us. It's only science fiction, and educational mind-benders that claims otherwise.


But I have to say the only thing laughable here is you. All you have to do to see the Dark Side of the Moon is to look up during a solar eclipse. But of course use caution when you do that because we wouldn't want you to become physically blind to match your intellectual blindness.

As usual, you are not making sense. The only thing a solar eclipse would reveal about the moon is a darkened image of the only side of the moon we EVER get to see. Besides there are several recorded instances where the illuminated moon is present in sky at the exact time a solar eclipse was occurring. So the lab-coat priesthood is also incorrect regarding the cause of eclipses. You've also conveniently ignored my post regarding the peculiar cooling properties of moonlight.


I'm talking about you looking through an actual telescope, not how they gather the data to present it afterwards in pictures.

I agree, that's how it should be done. But in practice, 99% of the images released by NASA about space are CGI not actual photographs. They are nothing but colorful cartoons.


It's called the 'sky' and above the sky there is no longer a canopy of water because it was dissipated during the great flood. There's nothing in the sky but clouds and weather patterns along with all the various planes that fly around the globe. Are all the millions of people that have flown around the Earth lying to us as well?

Millions of people also take pictures from aircraft and they all show a flat horizon. You have no proof whatsoever that the firmament has been completely drained of water. That's a nice supposition but it's not substantive proof.


All of these claims are second-and third-hand reports from people who say they have friends that are pilots. There is not one provable story I have seen where it is an actual pilot that has made any claim that the Earth is flat.

Here are a couple of examples of airline pilots confirming a Flat Earth:

German ENGINEER/ PILOT Confirms FLAT EARTH
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKdZQA9tA3E

A Pilot Calls jeranismRAW - Says He Wants To Test Flat Earth
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP7RZIyxzx0>

Flat Earth:Confessions of An Airline Pilot

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaUBrui9L1I

U.S. Army Aviation & Ground Training Expert talks Flat Earth

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaIKX7yZyW0>


Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
To debunk the Flat Earth theory, you can just use Sydney to Santiago, Chile, Quantas flight 27, 7000 miles. 12 hour flight. This flight would be impossible on the Flat Earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound.

OK Mick, thanks for your input, I'll agree with you that the most popular Flat Earth maps are far from perfect especially concerning certain flights BELOW the equator. However, the globe model has infinitely more discrepancies with their more numerous flight patterns ABOVE the equator. Your ONE flight example in "southern hemisphere" does not trump the dozens of flights that make infinitely more sense on the Flat Earth model. The Mercator projection, polar equidistant, spherical globes and ALL other current cartography maps when closely examined have certain inherent flaws. The Flat Earth map is, admittedly, a "work in progress".


So you have faith in an invisible God but you don't have faith in what you actually see? How convenient.

I've stated, again and again, that what I actually see and feel is a flat completely motionless earth. Prove to me that it's otherwise!
 
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lforrest, on 14 Oct 2016 - 1:30 PM, said:

lforrest said:
Nothing should be safe from criticism in general, so that all beliefs should stand or fall by their own merits.

However I believe we have entertained this flat earth belief long enough. Can we close this topic now?
I agree, this thread has run it's course. I will have it closed.

God Bless,

BA
--

As moderators you certainly have the right to terminate threads. However, It should be noted that it
was a fellow moderator, i.e., Angelina who initiated this thread. Why don't you allow her to make that decision,
IF, indeed, It is truly warranted at this time. I would wish to declare a voice of thanks to Angelia for creating
this thread and definitively state that I am whole-heartedly in favor on continuing on with this discussion.

The readers and subscribers to this Christian newsgroup should take careful notice as to which side is frantically
attempting at this juncture to squelch the debate.

The Flat Earth concept is a growing, vibrant phenomena with millions of viewers on YouTube. Your readers should
have a forum where they can freely discuss the matter for/against on its scientific principles as well as Biblical grounds.

JF
 

lforrest

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I don't moderate this area of the site so can't close this topic. It is up to her or another moderator responsible for this area.
 

Born_Again

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Likewise, I am not a moderator for this area. Angelina will have to close it. But I have made a recommendation for her to close it. Ultimately, it is her call.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
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James Forthwright said:
Says the guy who quotes hypocritical Pharisees as proof texts of veracity. SMH I fully understand that the Flat Earth concept seems, at first glance, utterly preposterous. This is primarily due to the fact that from the first time we entered grade school there was a prerequisite globe in every classroom and a thoroughly indoctrinated government approved instructor to instill the pseudo-science and anti-biblical concepts of spinning planets, cosmic big bang and Darwin's evolution theory into blank slate minds of young children. As adults, we are free to question what we've been taught and reject such astronomical fallacies, fanciful space travel, as well as Santa Claus' flying reindeer.
Truth is truth, even when a hypocrite voices it. Are you purporting that the Pharisees were wrong about what they said there? Just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean they don't know how to tell the truth or can't tell the truth. Jesus called out the Pharisees very clearly when He said do as they say, don't do as they do. The hypocrite is somebody who does differently than what he says. The earth is depicted as a globe because people have actually seen the shape in many ways. Ignoring reality only makes you the one that believes in fallacies & fantasies.
James Forthwright said:
Though there certainly are many times where the Bible is , indeed, speaking metaphorically those are the exceptions to rule. I believe that God did not metaphorically part the Red Sea for Moses. Nor did He metaphorically raise His Son Jesus from the grave or metaphorically stop the Sun & Moon for Joshua. I believe what the scriptural text plainly states. It is only your convoluted pseudo-scientific indoctrination that compels you to explain away sacred literal texts into mere phrases of hyperbole.
That is absolutely not factual at all and if you actually understood hermeneutical exegesis you would know that, but sadly you do what a lot of people do and read it based on your own bias. You don't read it with the intent of waiting for God to show you what it says. Is Isaiah 22:18 literal or metaphorical? What about Isaiah 40:22?
http://creation.com/is-the-erets-earth-flat
James Forthwright said:
No Stan, Our God-given senses clearly reveals that there is nothing but motionless stability here on earth and nothing but panoramic flat horizons to observe all around us. It's only science fiction, and educational mind-benders that claims otherwise.
No that is the contention of people like you who are blind to the truth and reality of the world we live in. Being paranoid and conspiratorial is not a common human trait, except for maybe flat earthers and those who believe that the U.S. government destroyed the Twin Towers in New York.
https://www.howitworksdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Earth_curve_at_night_PD_credit-NASA.jpg
James Forthwright said:
As usual, you are not making sense. The only thing a solar eclipse would reveal about the moon is a darkened image of the only side of the moon we EVER get to see. Besides there are several recorded instances where the illuminated moon is present in sky at the exact time a solar eclipse was occurring. So the lab-coat priesthood is also incorrect regarding the cause of eclipses. You've also conveniently ignored my post regarding the peculiar cooling properties of moonlight.
It would reveal the circular shape of the Moon and show that the moon on the dark side does not have its own light source as deliciously assert. There are no recorded instances I've seen an illuminated moon in the sky at the same time of a solar eclipse and this is just outright lying on your part. As far as moonlight is concerned, there is no use addressing it, given your obvious predisposition as anti-scientific observation.
James Forthwright said:
I agree, that's how it should be done. But in practice, 99% of the images released by NASA about space are CGI not actual photographs. They are nothing but colorful cartoons.
That's a bald-faced fallacious assertion that you cannot prove.
James Forthwright said:
Millions of people also take pictures from aircraft and they all show a flat horizon. You have no proof whatsoever that the firmament has been completely drained of water. That's a nice supposition but it's not substantive proof.
https://www.howitworksdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Earth_curve_at_night_PD_credit-NASA.jpg

The proof is in scripture and in the many space flights that have happened in the past 50 years that have gone out into the solar system. Your lack of belief and your distrust in them doesn't negate the reality of what they show us.
https://www.howitworksdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Earth_curve_at_night_PD_credit-NASA.jpg
Here are a couple of examples of airline pilots confirming a Flat Earth:

German ENGINEER/ PILOT Confirms FLAT EARTH
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKdZQA9tA3E

A Pilot Calls jeranismRAW - Says He Wants To Test Flat Earth
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP7RZIyxzx0>

Flat Earth:Confessions of An Airline Pilot

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaUBrui9L1I

U.S. Army Aviation & Ground Training Expert talks Flat Earth

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaIKX7yZyW0>
James Forthwright said:
OK Mick, thanks for your input, I'll agree with you that the most popular Flat Earth maps are far from perfect especially concerning certain flights BELOW the equator. However, the globe model has infinitely more discrepancies with their more numerous flight patterns ABOVE the equator. Your ONE flight example in "southern hemisphere" does not trump the dozens of flights that make infinitely more sense on the Flat Earth model. The Mercator projection, polar equidistant, spherical globes and ALL other current cartography maps when closely examined have certain inherent flaws. The Flat Earth map is, admittedly, a "work in progress".
Apparently everything in this world has a certain amount of inherent flaws except for your ability to comprehend? However he would be careful about that cognitive dissonance you're showing because one day it's going to explode in your face.
James Forthwright said:
I've stated, again and again, that what I actually see and feel is a flat completely motionless earth. Prove to me that it's otherwise!
You won't accept any proof so obviously the problem is in your perception that the proof. When the majority of people refuse to accept the reality of what the majority of people, then who actually has the problem with perception. Even if you went up to the space station I'm sure you would somehow doubt what your eyes perceived in favor of what your brain believes. That is what I called severely irrational!
 
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