ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

But, since no one will take you seriously if you say that this saved man who now rapes indiscriminately will be in the kingdom, you are forced to violate Scripture in order to establish what you think is Scripture. The truth is that a saved man may full well walk away from God and be lost because God is not a cosmic rapist who will force someone to remain in a relationship of which they no longer want to be a part, such as this saved man who turned back to his former life of raping women.

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I gues PM you should look at God in the OT, the one who sent men to kill all including women and children leaving noting alive,. compared to Christ who said" if you have seeing me you have seeing the father", and He came to show His fathers works, healed teh sick, made the blind see, teh deaf hear, teh lame walk, when the ear was cut of the man at His arrest Jesus healed His ear and told them to put away the sword. Seems like two completely differnt people doesnt it. God is Love, Jesus became sin for man because of love , yet all christians talk about is sin. Seems that man doesnt want to be save, He just wants to say" hey God look at me am I such a good Kid", No you are not that is why Jesus died for us. Gods grace extends much further than all teh limits man has placed on it. Dont you want anyone to be saved, or do you want to be like this man.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

transgressors of the law

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For one to transgress teh law one must be under the law. teh law is for sinners, theer is no grace for those under the law, and around the circle we go. There is no cndemnation for those who are in Christ jesus who walk in the spirit. If you are troubled by sin you are not walking in the spirit.

There is nothing on the face of this earth that you can do to make God love you more than He does, there is nothing you can do to add to what Christ has done to save yourself, it is by grace we are saved by " FAITH" something that is severly lacking on these forums. all you seek to do is justify your self by you works, which according to the bible is" as filthy rags" it makes men boast,

This topic should be renamed " 1000 reasons why God cant save me".

Lets start with. I dont believe He can.......

You know the strange thing in the OT, after all te hmurdering God supposedly told men to do, he wouldn allow David, a man after His own heart, to build His temple because He was a man of war. talk about being a hypocrit.

Phoneman777 said:

The truth is that a saved man may full well walk away from God and be lost

You OSAS people are so backwards in your theology.

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The term "lost" actually describes nonbelievers who haven't come to salvation yet.

Luke 19:9-10 NIV Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

John 17:12 NIV While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

John 18:8-9 NIV Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me, then let these men go.” 9This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me.”

1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Phoneman777 said:

ATP, if it is true that the saints are incapable of sin by OSAS's interpretation of John's words

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John is referring to progressive sanctification...

Prov 20:9 NIV Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?

1 John 1:8-10 NIV If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Whosoever is born of God,.... In a figurative and spiritual sense; who are regenerated, or born from above; who are quickened by the grace of God, and have Christ formed in them; who are made partakers of the divine nature, and new creatures in Christ; which spiritual birth is not owing to men, to the power and will of men, but to the grace of God; and is sometimes ascribed to the Father, who of his own will and abundant mercy begets souls again to a lively hope, and saves them by the washing of regeneration; and sometimes to Christ, who quickens whom he will, whose grace is implanted, and image stamped in it, and by whose resurrection from the dead men are begotten again; and chiefly, to the Spirit of God, who is the author of regeneration, and of the whole of sanctification: and such as are born of him are alive through him, the spirit of life entering into them, and live to God and upon Christ, and breathe after divine and spiritual things, and have their senses to discern them; they see, hear, feel, taste, and savour them; and desire the sincere milk of the word, for their nourishment and growth; and have every grace implanted in them, as faith, hope, and love: and of every such an one it is said, he

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary - 9. Whosoever is born of God—literally, "Everyone that is begotten of God."

doth not commit sin—His higher nature, as one born or begotten of God, doth not sin. To be begotten of God and to sin, are states mutually excluding one another. In so far as one sins, he makes it doubtful whether he be born of God.

his seed—the living word of God, made by the Holy Spirit the seed in us of a new life and the continual mean of sanctification.

Phoneman777 said:

"But thanks be to God Which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:57 KJV

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Being born again is a continuous stating of being.
The victory has already been won through the shedding of blood on the cross.
The victory comes through believing Rom 10:9-10, 1 John 5:5 NIV...

1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 55“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Pet 1:23 NIV / Psalm 106:1 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 4:4 NIV You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Phoneman777 said:

And I see no relationship with this reply to my post in which I expose OSAS

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Are you seeking religion, or love?

Phoneman777 said:

You know full well that we are not to judge the hearts of any man, yet you confidently judge the man as having "never been saved", despite Jesus' express command that we do no such thing, for the very reason that we are incapable of looking upon the heart.

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Not judging, testing Phone. I've asked you if you have a testimony multiple times now and what year you came to faith. You ignored me on all accounts. I myself believe those who hold to non-osas are not truly born again, have never experienced God's grace and their hearts are far from Christ. Until God reveals to me that I am wrong, then so be it.

1 John 4:1-3 NIV Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Okay, for the OSAS folks.... If someone is saved and they truly believe Christ is their Lord as savior, but stumble, even for a brief moment, does this mean they are not saved? This is my contention with the arrogant stance of OSAS. And yes, OSAS is as arrogant as the sun is bright.

OSAS is as arrogant as the sun is bright.

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I guess that makes God arrogant. I guess God must be the most arrogant of all, knowing that He can actually save man, even though even christians dont seem to want to be saved.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

You can argue with God as much as you like, simply man doesnt believe God can save him without mans help. Its all about, "look at me God , loo kat what I did", instead of "look at Jesus , and all the wonderfull things He did".That is arrogant and a slap in the face of Jesus, and God an all the work that was done.

Should I leave out this bit for you,

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Born_Again said:

Okay, for the OSAS folks.... If someone is saved and they truly believe Christ is their Lord as savior, but stumble, even for a brief moment, does this mean they are not saved?

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Of course they are still saved.

Prov 20:9 NIV Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?

1 John 1:8-10 NIV If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

My questions to you: How can you claim to be saved by grace and not believe grace keeps you saved Jude 1:24-25 NIV?

Born_Again said:

This is my contention with the arrogant stance of OSAS. And yes, OSAS is as arrogant as the sun is bright.

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How is giving credit to God arrogant BA?

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

- ATP

ATP said:

Of course they are still saved.

Prov 20:9 NIV Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?

1 John 1:8-10 NIV If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

My questions to you: How can you claim to be saved by grace and not believe grace keeps you saved Jude 1:24-25 NIV?


How is giving credit to God arrogant BA?

We who believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints in no way profess a dead faith, nor are we antinomians...yet when it comes to soteriology we do believe we are saved through the belief of the death of Jesus Christ for our sins and His resurrection. This is the entirety of the gospel for salvation.

What we believe about works is it is the natural progression and out working of being born again. These works do nothing to secure or maintain our salvation. These works are accredited to God as working in and through us.

We do not believe that sin will disqualify any born again believer for the free gift of salvation. All sin is deliberate, yet repentance is the natural working of God in us through the conviction He places on us. We believe as His children we are chastised but not condemned.

- ATP

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Do me a favor. Break down "Once Saved, Always Saved"

Break it down. No red herrings. After you have broken down exactly the definition of "Once Saved, Always Saved" read back through what you have typed and make sure it directly reflects the acronym, "OSAS".

Born_Again said:

Do me a favor. Break down "Once Saved, Always Saved"

Break it down. No red herrings. After you have broken down exactly the definition of "Once Saved, Always Saved" read back through what you have typed and make sure it directly reflects the acronym, "OSAS".

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I shouldn't have to BA. You should already know in your heart that you are a child of God. If you are truly born again, do you believe you can still go to hell?

ATP said:

I shouldn't have to BA. You should already know in your heart that you are a child of God. If you are truly born again, do you believe you can still go to hell?

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Humor me.

Born_Again said:

Do me a favor. Break down "Once Saved, Always Saved"
Break it down. No red herrings. After you have broken down exactly the definition of "Once Saved, Always Saved" read back through what you have typed and make sure it directly reflects the acronym, "OSAS".

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You're a glutton for punishment aren't you?

StanJ said:

You're a glutton for punishment aren't you?

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LOL Perhaps.

Born_Again said:

LOL Perhaps.

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You can always just ignore the truth like Him.

mjrhealth said:

You can always just ignore the truth like Him.

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Like *him, I presume you meant. lol I do that too LOL You type *Him so often, it becomes second nature to capitalize it.

Anywho, or you guys could do as I ask and define OSAS.

OSAS.

Simple . Once saved always saved.

has to do with this as I shared before.

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

If one has truly come to Christ, and one is Born again, than one is without sin, we are washed clean with His blood, we are made righteous because He is righteous, it is not our own. We have passed from "death to life" we have left our lives at the cross., and now walk teh narrow road that leads to life. we are no longer condemened, for His righteouseness is without sin, so we are saved. It is done. The cross in no loger our focus, taht is where we laid down our lives, that was the end of self, now He, " Christ" is our focus. for He is our salvation.

As far as God is concenred it is done. As Jesus said "it is finished"

Man just doesnt believe Him

Sorry about teh Him yes i meant him.

Born_Again said:

Humor me.

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We've been adopted into a family...John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV

Jesus died for past, present and future sins...Psalm 130:3-4 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-14 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation. Apostates are not born again christians...Matt 7:15 NIV, Matt 10:16 NIV, Matt 24:11 NIV, Matt 24:24 NIV, John 10:12 NIV, Acts 20:25-30 NIV, Rom 1:18-32 NIV, Rom 16:17 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Tim 3:5 NIV, 2 Pet 2:1 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV, 1 John 2:18-19 NIV, 1 John 4:1 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

We belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

We are written in the book of life forever...Luke 10:18-20 NIV, Phil 4:3 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 13:8 NIV, Rev 17:8 NIV, Rev 20:12-15 NIV, Rev 21:27 NIV

The new commandment God gives His saints is to love others and forgive others as Christ forgave us...John 13:34-35 NIV, John 15:12 NIV, John 15:17 NIV, Gal 5:6 NIV, Gal 5:14 NIV, 1 Tim 1:3-7 NIV, 1 John 3:23 NIV, 1 John 4:21 NIV, 2 John 1:5-6 NIV

There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV

Confidence in God comes through believing and not self-righteous works...Jer 17:7 NIV, 2 Cor 3:2-5 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Eph 3:12 NIV, Phil 1:3-6 NIV, Heb 10:19-22 NIV, Heb 11:1 NIV, Heb 13:6 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, 1 John 4:17 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV

We no longer continue to sin. The Law was made for sinners, but we are no longer under the law but under grace...Prov 20:9 NIV, Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 Tim 1:8-11 NIV, 1 John 1:8-10 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV / Prov 1:33 NIV

Running the race is about winning or losing crowns in heaven and has nothing to do with original salvation...Matt 5:12 NIV, Matt 6:20 NIV, Matt 18:18 NIV, Matt 19:21 NIV, Acts 20:24 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 4:12 NIV, 1 Cor 9:24-27 NIV, Gal 5:7 NIV, Phil 3:12-14 NIV, Col 2:18 NIV, 1 Thess 2:19 NIV, 2 Tim 2:5 NIV, Heb 10:34-35 NIV, Heb 12:1 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV / Psalm 106:1 NIV, 2 John 1:8-11 NIV, Rev 2:10 NIV, Rev 3:11 NIV, Rev 11:18 NIV, Rev 22:12 NIV

Once we believed we were baptized into Christ's death once and for all...Rom 6:3-5 NIV, Rom 8:36 ESV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV

Believers are no longer enemies of God, rather nonbelievers are...Nahum 1:2 ESV, Rom 5:10-11 NIV, Rom 11:28 NIV, Rom 12:19-20 NIV, Heb 10:27 NIV

Once we believe, we have eternal life...John 3:14-16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV / Prov 1:33 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV

Once we believed and came to faith in Jesus Christ we also now have freedom to approach God with confidence...John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 6:18-20 NIV, Gal 2:4 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 3:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Rev 1:5 NIV

We are heirs to Christ...Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV

We have an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade...Psalm 33:11-12 NIV, Psalm 37:18 NIV, Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 10:34 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

We are only justified once...Acts 13:39 NIV, Rom 3:24-28 NIV, Rom 4:2 NIV, Rom 4:25 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:30 NIV, Rom 8:33 ESV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV / Isa 29:13 NIV / Matt 15:8-9 NIV, 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, Gal 2:16-17 NIV, Gal 3:11 NIV, Gal 3:24 NIV, Gal 5:4 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV

Your inheritance is KEPT in heaven for you in Christ Jesus...1 Thess 5:23 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV

Nonbelievers are considered lost, not believers...Luke 19:9-10 NIV, John 6:35-40 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV / Prov 1:33 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, John 18:8-9 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV

Overcoming and being victorious is based on belief, not works...Psa 20:6-9 NIV, Psalm 44:5-8 NIV, John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

The saints persevere because God's grace never leaves them. God will keep His promises...Psalm 145:13-14 NIV, Acts 2:32-33 NIV, Rom 4:13-25 NIV, Gal 3:13-14 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 3:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Heb 8:6 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, James 1:12 NIV, 2 Pet 1:3-4 NIV

Our inheritance is kept in heaven for us through the power and protection of God...Psa 5:11-12 NIV, Psa 18:2 NIV, John 17:11 NIV, John 17:15 NIV, Rom 1:16 NIV, Rom 1:20 NIV, Rom 15:13 NIV, 1 Cor 1:17 NIV, 1 Cor 2:4-5 NIV, 1 Cor 4:20 NIV, 1 Cor 5:4-5 NIV, 1 Cor 6:14 NIV, Eph 1:19-21 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

The Book of Psalms also confirms eternal security...Psalm 18:2 NIV, Psalm 21:4 NIV, Psalm 28:8-9 NIV, Psalm 33:11-12 NIV, Psalm 34:19-20 NIV, Psalm 37:39-40 NIV, Psalm 48:8-9 NIV, Psalm 48:14 NIV, Psalm 62:1-2 NIV, Psalm 73:26 NIV, Psalm 89:1-4 NIV, Psalm 94:16-18 NIV, Psalm 100:4-5 NIV / Psalm 108:4 NIV / Psalm 145:13-14 NIV, Psalm 106:1 NIV, Psalm 107:1-2 NIV / Psalm 103:4 NIV, Psalm 111:9 NIV, Psalm 121:1-8 NIV, Psalm 130:7-8 NIV, Psalm 135:13-14 NIV, Psalm 136:1-26 NIV, Psalm 139:9-10 NIV, Psalm 142:3 NIV, Psalm 145:13-14 NIV

It's not our works that keep us saved, it's His...Psalm 127:1 NIV, Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 1 Tim 4:10 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

They fell away because they had no root, seed, and truth of salvation, which is Jesus Christ. Either you are born again or you are not...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Luke 8:11 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV / Prov 1:33 NIV, Rom 11:20 NIV, Rom 11:23 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV / Psalm 106:1 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Rev 5:5 NIV, Rev 22:16 NIV

We are sealed until the day of redemption...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

And lastly, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.

And some extra's that prove God's grace never leaves us...Matt 19:25-26 NIV, John 6:35-40 NIV, John 10:9 NIV, John 17:26 NIV, Rom 7:21-25 NIV, 1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 5:1-5 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9-10 NIV / 2 Cor 3:12 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Col 1:3-5 NIV, 2 Tim 2:13 NIV / Psalm 100:4-5 NIV / Psalm 108:4 NIV / Psalm 145:13-14 NIV, 2 Tim 4:18 NIV, Heb 6:16-19 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Heb 13:5 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV / Psalm 106:1 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV, Jude 1:1 NIV, Jude 1:24-25 NIV

The evidence is so overwhelming, that it breaks my heart to see a believer think otherwise..