Why do people believe in a rapture?

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keras

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Tell me, StanJ, why you feel the need to be sarcastic about books you have never read?
My voice against false doctrine's is the truth of scripture and those who have chosen to believe things that aren't supported by the Bible, abuse me for my trouble. It seems you have taken a cue from Marcus, why believe him?
 

keras

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When was preaching the truth of scripture 'equating oneself with God'?
Marcus, your very evident hatred of anyone who opposes your beliefs by quoting scriptural truths, places you in a shaky position. You are determined to hold to a 'rapture to heaven' when that theory does not hold up to close scrutiny. In fact it totally fails by the Words of Jesus Himself.
So what motivates you to believe in and promote such a thing?

Yes, at the Return there will be a rising to meet the Lord as He comes down from heaven and the souls of the dead saints are kept under the Altar, presumably in heaven, but nowhere are we told that living people will go to live there.
Where the Lord's righteous people WILL go to live is in all of the Holy Land. That is God's plan and our destiny.

[SIZE=medium]Psalm 60:1-[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]5 You have been displeased and rejected us, now restore us, we pray. You have shaken the Land, it is barren and desolate. Your people are punished, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]but to those who love and obey You[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], You have raised a signal, to which they may escape. Save us and help us with Your strong Right Hand, deliver those whom You love.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Acts 3:19-24 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Repent, therefore and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Then the Lord may grant you a time of recovery.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]2 Sam. 7:10-11 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I shall place My people, in their own Land and give them peace.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jer. 33:6 & 25 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I shall restore the Land. My people will live there.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] They will shout: “Praise the Lord of hosts, for the Lord is good, His love endures forever”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Deut 30:1-10...[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the Lord will again rejoice in you, as He did over your forefathers.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 32:15-20 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]A spirit from on high will fall upon them. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Happy are His people, living in peace and security.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 49:8[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] I have destined you to be a light to all peoples. On the Day of your deliverance, I came to your aid and restored the Land.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 58:11-12[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] The Lord will be your guide constantly. He will satisfy your needs and you will be called; the restorer of ruins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 31:2-3 & 28 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]A people that escaped from the sword, found favour, from afar, He appeared to them. I shall watch over them, to build and plant.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 23:3-4[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I will bring My sheep back to the Land. I will appoint shepherds to tend them[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Ezekiel 34:27 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]When I rescue My people, they will know that I am the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Ezekiel 36:8-18 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I will settle My people in the Land[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Thus they will acknowledge Me as Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Ezekiel 38:8 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Land restored from ruin. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]My people, gathered and settled there[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Ezekiel 39:27 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]They will exemplify My holiness for all peoples to see[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 12:1 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Lord will arise, for His people are oppressed. They will live in safety.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 29:11 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Lord will give strength to His people and bless them with peace.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 37:9 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]For evildoers will be destroyed, while [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]those who trust in the Lord will enjoy prosperity in the Land.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 69:35-36[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] God will deliver Zion, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]His people will possess it and settle there[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Those who serve Him and love His Name, will live there.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 80:19 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Restore us, O God, grant us new life and we shall invoke You by name.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 85:1-3 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Lord, You have blessed Your Land.... and turned Your anger away from us.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 107:1-3[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Let those redeemed by the Lord, give thanks, His people, gathered from around the world.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Psalm 147:14 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Lord has brought peace and plenty to His Land.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.[/SIZE]

 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
When was preaching the truth of scripture 'equating oneself with God'?​
When you claim your voice equals the truth of Scripture.

is: third person singular present tense of to be.
be: 1. The copula in a sentence or clause; the verb which asserts a relation between subject and predicate noun. -- Webster's Third International Dictionary copyright 1957.

Your horrible exegesis in determining what Scripture says, may also be indicative of the necessary lack of cognitive ability with which you could recognize what you even write.
 

StanJ

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keras said:
When was preaching the truth of scripture 'equating oneself with God'?
Marcus, your very evident hatred of anyone who opposes your beliefs by quoting scriptural truths, places you in a shaky position. You are determined to hold to a 'rapture to heaven' when that theory does not hold up to close scrutiny. In fact it totally fails by the Words of Jesus Himself.
So what motivates you to believe in and promote such a thing?

Yes, at the Return there will be a rising to meet the Lord as He comes down from heaven and the souls of the dead saints are kept under the Altar, presumably in heaven, but nowhere are we told that living people will go to live there.
Where the Lord's righteous people WILL go to live is in all of the Holy Land. That is God's plan and our destiny.
Pot calling kettle....how typical.

You sir are NOT God, but keep stating your OPINION is correct even though you cannot support it. THAT is equating yourself with God.

You have been told innumerable time that the rapture does not mean believers go to heaven, yet you continue to espouse those words. Either deliberately or not, I'm really not sure, but I am sure you have been told about it MANY times and yet refuse to stop equivocating about it. THAT is not an attribute of someone who faithfully and correctly expounds/exegetes the word of God.

The rapture occurs at least a thousand years before the judgement seat of Christ, so you combining the two here just further proves you don't really understand end times. We (believers) will rule with Jesus for a thousand years on this earth, then the judgment, then the NEW earth and NEW Jerusalem. It's very well defined for one that has actually READ the book of Revelation. You seem to be stuck in the OT?
 

keras

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I have read Revlation very carefully. I find that Book very informative and it matches with what all the other prophets said.

[SIZE=medium]Points to be considered:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]1/ Are the seals, trumpets and bowls a progression of events?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]2/ Have the first five seals been opened already?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]3/ Is the Sixth Seal actually the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]4/ Is there a literal explanation of the Sixth Seal?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]1/ All the commentaries that I have perused and most of the Bible scholars I have asked, agree on the chronological sequence of the seals, trumpets and bowls. It is only those with the agenda of the next event being a war and all the wrath of God is to be poured out at the Return, who place them out of the sequence as given.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Also a preterist will say it’s all past history or abrogated by Christ’s atonement. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]2/ Although some say that because the description of the four horsemen and how they have been released already, as in Zechariah 1:8-11 and Zechariah 6:1-8, do not exactly match that described in Revelation 6:1-8, then they are different events. However, I see this as just an attempt to maintain their beliefs, especially those [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]who hold to a pre trib/wrath rapture.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The Fifth Seal is telling those saints that [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]have been[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] martyred - they must wait until their number is complete. Matthew 23:35 Jesus said:...[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah...[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] This significant quote confirms that the first five seals are open and the fifth, after the murder of Abel and their number will be completed by all who have been and will be killed from that time until the Return.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]3/ The Sixth Seal matches quite closely the many prophecies of the worldwide Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, found throughout the O.T. and the N.T. This event simply does not match the 3 clear descriptions of the Return of Jesus and what happens then. Zechariah 14:4-9, Matthew 24:30-31, Revelation 19:11-21[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]As for thinking that because it is the people who say; [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]‘Fall on us, for the Day of wrath has come’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], then it isn’t a true statement, this is totally unbelievable because they haven’t said it yet and it is actually a prophecy of Jesus, as given to John. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]4/ Prophecy should be understood literally, unless there is an obvious allegory and then it is most often explained literally in other passages. With hindsight and modern scientific knowledge, it is now possible to know what will happen and right now the [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]fulfilment of Psalm 83:1-18 and Micah 4:11-12 is staring us in the face.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]The sequence of judgements/punishments as revealed by Jesus to John in Revelation, will occur as written and the next event will be the Sixth Seal, the Great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the Day the Lord destroys His enemies. All the graphically described effects of a worldwide devastation will happen by the means He will use, a coronal mass ejection, Isaiah 30:26, which will literally fulfil all those prophecies about the Lord's Day of wrath. [/SIZE]

 

StanJ

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keras said:
I have read Revlation very carefully. I find that Book very informative and it matches with what all the other prophets said.

[SIZE=medium]Points to be considered:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]1/ Are the seals, trumpets and bowls a progression of events?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]2/ Have the first five seals been opened already?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]3/ Is the Sixth Seal actually the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]4/ Is there a literal explanation of the Sixth Seal?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]1/ All the commentaries that I have perused and most of the Bible scholars I have asked, agree on the chronological sequence of the seals, trumpets and bowls. It is only those with the agenda of the next event being a war and all the wrath of God is to be poured out at the Return, who place them out of the sequence as given.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Also a preterist will say it’s all past history or abrogated by Christ’s atonement. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]2/ Although some say that because the description of the four horsemen and how they have been released already, as in Zechariah 1:8-11 and Zechariah 6:1-8, do not exactly match that described in Revelation 6:1-8, then they are different events. However, I see this as just an attempt to maintain their beliefs, especially those [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]who hold to a pre trib/wrath rapture.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The Fifth Seal is telling those saints that [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]have been[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] martyred - they must wait until their number is complete. Matthew 23:35 Jesus said:...[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah...[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] This significant quote confirms that the first five seals are open and the fifth, after the murder of Abel and their number will be completed by all who have been and will be killed from that time until the Return.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]3/ The Sixth Seal matches quite closely the many prophecies of the worldwide Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, found throughout the O.T. and the N.T. This event simply does not match the 3 clear descriptions of the Return of Jesus and what happens then. Zechariah 14:4-9, Matthew 24:30-31, Revelation 19:11-21[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]As for thinking that because it is the people who say; [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]‘Fall on us, for the Day of wrath has come’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], then it isn’t a true statement, this is totally unbelievable because they haven’t said it yet and it is actually a prophecy of Jesus, as given to John. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]4/ Prophecy should be understood literally, unless there is an obvious allegory and then it is most often explained literally in other passages. With hindsight and modern scientific knowledge, it is now possible to know what will happen and right now the [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]fulfilment of Psalm 83:1-18 and Micah 4:11-12 is staring us in the face.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]The sequence of judgements/punishments as revealed by Jesus to John in Revelation, will occur as written and the next event will be the Sixth Seal, the Great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the Day the Lord destroys His enemies. All the graphically described effects of a worldwide devastation will happen by the means He will use, a coronal mass ejection, Isaiah 30:26, which will literally fulfil all those prophecies about the Lord's Day of wrath. [/SIZE]

You seem to ignore all posts to you and continue to repeat your fallacious doctrine. No use discussing further with one who is so stiff necked and proud.
 

michaelvpardo

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Sorry I didn't read all the comments as they seem mostly argumentative and insulting, but my simple answer to the OP is "fear." I'll add that this "fear" comes from a lack of faith or understanding in the power of God to preserve his own.
I'm inclined to give silly anecdotal stories in my posts (but they are true stories just the same which illustrate something of how God works in His creation) so I'll share one now. My dad, now deceased, served in the European theatre in WWII as a liaison officer (though he was only a corporal) with an armored unit under the command of George Patton. His duties included driving to forward positions to deliver orders and receive reports. On one occasion, my father chose to drive through an open field rather than keep his jeep on the road, because of a column or other obstruction on the road. At the far end of the field he observed signs posted in German which said "attention, minefield, forbidden," so he apparently drove through the middle of a mine field completely unharmed. My pop had a number of such stories, which we were always entertained by, but my dad could by no means be called a Christian. The Lord preserved my dad through many dangers, toils, and snares, in spite of the fact that my father never confessed any belief or faith in Christ prior to a single occasion of conversation when he was very old. I like to think that the Lord preserved my father for my sake (wonderfully ego boosting), but the Lord is "kind to the unthankful and evil" and shows grace to men as He pleases.
The scripture tells us that The Lord preserved Daniel's friends through a fire hot enough to kill those men who threw them into it and that their clothes were intact and not even a hint of smoke was upon them. If Christians really believed this, would they fear what was coming? The same book tells us that Daniel was thrown into a den of lions and came out unharmed while his enemies were then thrown in and devoured. Do Christians really believe this?
God poured out His wrath upon the earth in the days of Noah, yet Noah was preserved through the flood, not removed from the flood. Do Christians understand this or believe it? Obviously some do.
The pre-trib rapture doctrine appeals to the flesh (our carnal nature) which desires pleasure and comfort, peace and safety, but the Lord is more concerned with our character and our faith than with our comfort and our safety, or there would be no martyrs and no Christian would die from disease or violence or any of the evils that God has permitted in the world.
But for the sake of the peanut gallery:
7. "For a mere moment I have forsaken you, but with great mercies I will gather you. 8. With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,'' says the Lord, your Redeemer. 9. "For this is like the waters of Noah to Me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth, so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. 10. For the mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but My kindness shall not depart from you, nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,'' says the Lord, who has mercy on you.
11. "O you afflicted one, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay your stones with colorful gems, and lay your foundations with sapphires. 12. I will make your pinnacles of rubies, your gates of crystal, and all your walls of precious stones. 13. All your children shall be taught by the Lord, and great shall be the peace of your children. 14. In righteousness you shall be established; you shall be far from oppression, for you shall not fear; and from terror, for it shall not come near you. 15. Indeed they shall surely assemble, but not because of Me. Whoever assembles against you shall fall for your sake. Isaiah 54:7-15
There's a reason that this passage follows the gospel given in Isaiah 53, and my apologies to Marcus, but the Apostle Paul tells us that the church is comprised of both Jews and gentiles and that God has joined us together in what Paul calls the Israel of God. For two thousand years gentiles have been trying to kick the Jews out of the church or put them into some separate category as "Christian Jews" or even as "revelation saints," but being a Christian is a matter of faith and being a Jew is a matter of birth and there isn't a soul on earth that can separate God's people from God's love. You can narrow your definition of the church to only those who are born again by the Spirit of God, but the professing church is every bit as much a mixed multitude as was ancient Israel and this is certainly no secret to the Lord. Now if the Lord were going to catch up all born again believers before the great tribulation, He would be contradicting more than one verse of scripture pertaining to His saints and most significantly those found in Chapter 20 of the book of the Revelation which describes the first resurrection as occurring after the destruction of the beast and the binding of Satan (for the millennial kingdom period.)
The outpouring of God's wrath upon the earth is a judgment against all flesh, not against all souls. The great white throne judgment is the one in which eternal wrath is expressed, because at that time Christ will judge the eternal disposition of every soul that hasn't submitted to Him and hasn't found God's grace to be part of the first resurrection.
The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked, So that men will say, "Surely there is a reward for the righteous; Surely He is God who judges in the earth.'' Psalms 58:10-11
If you believe this last verse to be the word of God, then who is it referring to, given that the scripture also says,
"Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?'' says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live? Ezekiel 18:23
Doesn't it speak of those whom God has accounted as righteous by faith? And how would we witness the judgment if we aren't here?
 

keras

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Thank you, Michael, an excellent post that answers the question of 'why do people believe in a rapture to heaven'?

It is undeniable that there is only one people of God: His righteous believers, all the rest of mankind are not. Simple as that.

All the prophesies tell us what God has planned for His people in these last days. They will be protected during the Lord's Day of wrath and then gathered into all of the holy Land, where they will at last, be as God always intended His chosen people to be. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 43:10
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
The sequence of judgements/punishments as revealed by Jesus to John in Revelation, will occur as written and the next event will be the Sixth Seal, the Great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the Day the Lord destroys His enemies.
Nope, that's not the next thing. The sequence of events to come with the sixth Seal with its signature sun/moon/star event, must be preceded by the events Jesus foretold in the Olivet Discourse:

1. The midpoint abomination, and
2. The Great Tribulation.

These events also dictate that before they come to pass that:
A. The fourth terrible beast arise.
B. The anti-Christ come forth
C. The one 'seven' begins.

keras said:
All the graphically described effects of a worldwide devastation will happen by the means He will use, a coronal mass ejection, Isaiah 30:26, which will literally fulfil all those prophecies about the Lord's Day of wrath. ​
This is so utterly wrong, and in the face of so many times I have tried to show you, that your continued insistence upon it borders on insanity.
 

StanJ

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keras said:
Thank you, Michael, an excellent post that answers the question of 'why do people believe in a rapture to heaven'?

It is undeniable that there is only one people of God: His righteous believers, all the rest of mankind are not. Simple as that.

All the prophesies tell us what God has planned for His people in these last days. They will be protected during the Lord's Day of wrath and then gathered into all of the holy Land, where they will at last, be as God always intended His chosen people to be. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 43:10
Actually the OP did NOT ask that keras, so I really wonder why you ALWAYS add "to heaven" to this?
 

keras

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StanJ said:
Actually the OP did NOT ask that keras, so I really wonder why you ALWAYS add "to heaven" to this?
The first three sentences of the OP:
[SIZE=medium]Why do people believe in a rapture? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It is taken as read, that this means a rapture removal to heaven of all Christian people, either before the Seals, during the last 7 years, or at the Return. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Unfortunately for those who would like to be outta here before anything nasty happens, there is no scriptural support for such a belief. The same applies for the mid-trib theory. But at the Return of Jesus, there will be a great lifting up and gathering of all the ‘elect, or chosen’, as Matthew 24:31 puts it and as Paul details in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.[/SIZE]
 

epostle1

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Not a single bible scholar, Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox, ever 'discovered' the rapture theory until 1830, and before that, they were all too stupid until John Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren Church came along and invented it. 185 years later sensational books and movies are raking in the money off of people's insecurities. It amounts to escapism.

There is no joy or hope in a fear based gospel.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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When you look at the dominance of the Roman Catholic Church with its Amillennial viewpoint for over 13 centuries, it's not surprising that it took so long for Historic Pre-Millennialism, which existed before the rise of the RCC harlot on the beast, to be rekindled in the Protestant Churches.

When complete ignorance of the Bible is the way you control your flock, and I know Roman Catholics today who still don't know their Bible even though they have one, it's not surprising.

But Darby was completely unknown to me until I hit the message boards with the rise of the Internet. I had formed my conclusion quite apart from his influence. The fact that people can read the Bible for theirselves and reach the same conclusion also means whatever Darby thought is of little to no consequence.

I will agree that an "anytime" Rapture - to Heaven - BEFORE the one 'seven' is a form of escapism - but only in that it seeks to mitigate the pain of oppression and ultimately real suffering and outright death in the Great Tribulation. There will be some people who will be entirely surprised by the negative turn of events foretold to come. Jesus said that many would look for Him in all the wrong places.

But the hope we have is in eternal life through faith, and that life will be in Heaven during the Millennium. After that, those that we did rule over on the earth (and you can rule from afar as Jesus laid out in a parable about Himself) will join us (as sheep) and we will all not remember these former times and we will live with God on the New Earth.
 

michaelvpardo

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
But Darby was completely unknown to me until I hit the message boards with the rise of the Internet. I had formed my conclusion quite apart from his influence. The fact that people can read the Bible for theirselves and reach the same conclusion also means whatever Darby thought is of little to no consequence.
Darby is also credited as the primary creator of the doctrine called dispensationalism (which I consider complete hogwash: The Lord does not change.)
Darby also felt it necessary to write his own translation of the New Testament, which is usually more about making the word of God more palatable to the author's bent. (see the New World Translation for an extreme example of such distortion.)
Up until a few months ago, my wife and I had been attending a local Cavalry Chapel, but our Pastor, who's teaching had generally been sound, started using the rapture as the gospel during his unfortunately isogetic sermons on the book of the Revelation. I actually heard him say on two separate occasions that since the signs of the times are indicating that the return of Christ is imminent anyone who hadn't received Him should do so now so that they can be raptured and escape the coming tribulation period. I'm sorry, but that's not the gospel and it received no responses from the listeners in the congregation. My impression of his teaching at that point was that everything that followed was shallow or nonsensical, as though the Lord had removed all wisdom from him. I can tell you right now that he didn't come up with the rapture doctrine by reading scripture, but by receiving it from his mentor, teacher, and friend, Chuck Smith. You see, that Pastor values the teaching of his old friend more than what the scripture actually says. This same Pastor will occasionally mention the general position of the Calvary Chapel churches that their focus is more on worship than on doctrine, because doctrine divides, yet he had no problem saying from the pulpit that "We believe in a pre-tribulation rapture" immediately excluding me or anyone who thinks as I do from his congregation by his self centered and somewhat arrogant words. Not only did the Pastor exclude me from any possibility of becoming a member of his church, but my wife (who is no scholar) tends to believe whatever the Pastor says because she likes the man, ended up arguing with me over my own belief and telling me that I must not be a Christian because I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. I can also guarantee that our pastor at Calvary Chapel had no clue of his own hypocrisy in the pulpit, because he isn't an unkind man and I believe the sincerity of his faith and confession. The problem is that when you choose to believe a lie, regardless of how sincere your motives may be, everything that follows must conform itself to the lie rather than to truth. All that you're left with is a house of cards ready to fall at the smallest puff of wind. Some people see this "difference of opinion" as being inconsequential as the pre-trib rapture doctrine is not usually considered an essential element of the Christian faith, but its not going to be inconsequential when things get really bad upon the planet and thousands of Christians start to wonder why they're still here. Thousands will stumble, some will fall away completely, yet the Lord is able to keep His own and make them to stand and so He shall. All things considered, I wouldn't want to be one of those responsible for making them stumble.
 
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Marcus O'Reillius

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I do not need Darby or Scofield to find the Rapture in the Bible.
I found it hears before I ever heard of these two individuals.

As to a secret, anytime Rapture - I find no evidence for that.
However, I could meet my Maker today, as none.of us know what our last day will be long before we get to discuss when the Last Day will come.

As far as Dispensationalism, while Jew and Gentile are united in Christ,
It would be more.correct to say that:
1. All Jews reject Jesus, then say,
2. All Jews believe in Jesus.

So while we do have Messianic Jews, their percentage of the Jews in this world are so small, as to be neglible.

Progressive Dispensationalism does recognize the schism between Christian and Jew today while looking forward (through what God does in the end-times and further through the Millennium) to a time when Jew and Gentile are literally, and wholly, united in Christ.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
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keras said:
The first three sentences of the OP:
[SIZE=medium]Why do people believe in a rapture? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It is taken as read, that this means a rapture removal to heaven of all Christian people, either before the Seals, during the last 7 years, or at the Return. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Unfortunately for those who would like to be outta here before anything nasty happens, there is no scriptural support for such a belief. The same applies for the mid-trib theory. But at the Return of Jesus, there will be a great lifting up and gathering of all the ‘elect, or chosen’, as Matthew 24:31 puts it and as Paul details in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.[/SIZE]
No, that is YOUR slant, which you obviously did not articulate in the OP, but now make a point of adding it every time, so as to obscure the actual issue. You have been told many times and still insist on equivocating about it.
 

michaelvpardo

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
I do not need Darby or Scofield to find the Rapture in the Bible.
I found it hears before I ever heard of these two individuals.

The editor on this site seems to work differently with google chrome than with microsoft's browser, so forgive me for the formatting issues. When you say rapture, are you referring to the gathering together of the elect? The only verse that I'm familiar with (used to support the secret rapture doctrine) is 1st Thessalonians 4:17, which appears to speak to the first resurrection of the dead and the gathering together of the elect.