John 3: 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Genesis 5: 23And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Hebrews 11: 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.So where did Enoch go? The same place as Moses and Elijah?Matthew 17: 1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. 8And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.Moses died and was buried, so he could have been in that Paradise.Deuteronomy 34: 5So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.In reading how Elijah was taken up to "heaven", I am not sure the term heaven is the same as Heaven. There was a condition for seeing Elijah when he was taken.. to receive double portion of his spirit... and that condition was seeing Elijah go. 2 Kings 2: 9And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. 10And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. 11And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. 13He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan; 14And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over. 15And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him. 16And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send. So did God send Elijah across time to the great tribulation with a brief stop over during Jesus time with Moses who appeared from Paradise to be on earth for a bit? Or was Elijah taken to Paradise?So there is a Elijah seperate from John the Baptist as John was like him, but the question here is... if no man ascended yet to Heaven until Jesus did, then were they taken to the Paradise side of Hell where Jesus descended to lead the captive out of captivity? As there will be two witnesses during the great tribulation, could it be that they were translated across time? If Enoch foresaw the event in Jude of the Lord coming with the saints, could it be that he is coming across time as being translated to serve God during the grrat tribulation since no one has ascended yet to Heaven before Jesus?______________________Enoch's quoted message did not give a warning about fallen angels at all nor their intermingling with mankind since the scriptures went on about carnilty by itself as being on the same level of sin as those that Enoch prophesied against in order to keep oneself in the love of God as in abstaining from it.Jude 1: 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.In the coming quote from Jude, angels that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation... that is talking about Heaven, thus are they "reserved" in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day was referring to them receiving a coming judgment that is unavoidable... as in the devil and all his angels shall be cast into the lake of fire... as in "reserved" for them. Jude 1: 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. I don't see no verse describing the devil setting loose those that are bound for mingling with the daughters of man to wage war. I don't see Jesus binding Legion in the way this teaching of the angels mingling with man are bound. They were just sent away as bound in that respect.Mark 5: 2And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Luke 8: 27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs. 28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. 29(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.) 30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. 31And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. The only reference of a devil being put out of commission is Satan being bound in a pit for a 1000 years for the milleniel reign and then he is set loose.So it is the "reserved" judgment for all the fallen angels that was spoken of in Jude as bound for the lake of fire.Matthew 25: 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: ______________________Something to consider: Have any prophet been taken up to Heaven to view Heaven ( that's captial H") other than the "assumed Enoch" before Jesus ascended? If not, could there be that the whole Ethipoic book of Enoch found is the forgery for which the levels of Heavens are described with a place for the tortured and the tenth being where our "Ancestors came from"? Could it be that the quote from Enoch in Jude came from the ten fragments was the only thing that survived to be read by us which had nothing to do with the sealing of nor the hidden mystery nor him being taken up to "Heaven" at any time to view Heaven nor anything purported to exalt in the Ethiopic Book of Enoch as it quoted heavily of Jesus and the NT, thus alluding to that whole Ethiopic Book of Enoch being the forgery? May the Lord cause the revelation.
Where Did Enoch & Elijah Go? And How Are Fallen Angels Bound?
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As far as Enoch Goes, he was in Abraham's Bosom, Translated to Live another longer time. Read Genesis 5:23 ALL OF THE DAYS OF ENOCH WERE 365 Years! He died. He Was Translated Hebrews 11:5, but that didn't mean he was taken to YHWH's Throne.There Are three Heavens, the Sky, Outer Space, and the Throne of YHWH. Elijah nor Enoch made it that far. Hebrews 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise. The Promise was a Resurrection, and the Resurrection meant being in the Throne with God after Death, NO ONE was ever to see this Promise! Not Enoch, neither Elijah. Hebrews 9:27: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."Enoch, some say Enoch Lived 65 years, but God translated him, meaning he either could have extended his Life. Enoch Died. Now going back to Elijah, Remember The Two Witnesses, and Remember Hebrews 9:27, Judgment after Death. Moses has already been Judged, but God has commissioned him again to Return, So Moses will be the Second Person to receive the Promise, the resurrection. Why is he Second? Cause Christ was First. Now going back to Elijah, he never Died, he lived in the first Heaven, cause he was taken in a whirlwind from Heaven. Since Elijah was the Only Man to never Die, He will die according to Revelation 11:7 to fulfill Hebrews 9:27. He will be the Third person to receive the Promise, It Was Christ First, Moses Second, and Elijah third. After Elijah and Moses are Killed, they will be with Christ in Heaven Again. With all the Saints and Angels.
Hi Unrothodox Christian,Thanks for sharing.
There Are three Heavens, the Sky, Outer Space, and the Throne of YHWH. Elijah nor Enoch made it that far. Hebrews 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise. The Promise was a Resurrection, and the Resurrection meant being in the Throne with God after Death, NO ONE was ever to see this Promise! Not Enoch, neither Elijah.
I agree.I did notice that Peter mentioned knowing a man having gone up to Heaven, and maybe he was speaking of John that wrote Revelation, but in keeping with the words of Jesus, they could be taken and see these things then since Jesus has ascended.But what does that make of Enoch supposedly being taken up and testifying of all those levels of Heavens as there being ten before Jesus had ascended?http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterTwo/Enochs...ionToHeaven.htmThis is one of the reasons why I do not believe in the Ethiopic Books of Enoch. Jude may have quoted about Enoch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it came from the ten fragments found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and that by no mean should validify the Ethiopic Books of Enoch. Since forgeries have been made, and in keeping with the Bible, the Ethiopic Books of Enoch should not be taken as anything but a forgery made off of Jesus' words and the NT to give it a more than favorable appeal among believers.What say you? If no one has been taken up there yet to see Heaven... then..?
There Are three Heavens, the Sky, Outer Space, and the Throne of YHWH. Elijah nor Enoch made it that far. Hebrews 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise. The Promise was a Resurrection, and the Resurrection meant being in the Throne with God after Death, NO ONE was ever to see this Promise! Not Enoch, neither Elijah.
I agree.I did notice that Peter mentioned knowing a man having gone up to Heaven, and maybe he was speaking of John that wrote Revelation, but in keeping with the words of Jesus, they could be taken and see these things then since Jesus has ascended.But what does that make of Enoch supposedly being taken up and testifying of all those levels of Heavens as there being ten before Jesus had ascended?http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterTwo/Enochs...ionToHeaven.htmThis is one of the reasons why I do not believe in the Ethiopic Books of Enoch. Jude may have quoted about Enoch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it came from the ten fragments found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and that by no mean should validify the Ethiopic Books of Enoch. Since forgeries have been made, and in keeping with the Bible, the Ethiopic Books of Enoch should not be taken as anything but a forgery made off of Jesus' words and the NT to give it a more than favorable appeal among believers.What say you? If no one has been taken up there yet to see Heaven... then..?
(Pariah;26800)
JEnoch's quoted message did not give a warning about fallen angels at all nor their intermingling with mankind since the scriptures went on about carnilty by itself as being on the same level of sin as those that Enoch prophesied against in order to keep oneself in the love of God as in abstaining from it.Jude 1: 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.In the coming quote from Jude, angels that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation... that is talking about Heaven, thus are they "reserved" in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day was referring to them receiving a coming judgment that is unavoidable... as in the devil and all his angels shall be cast into the lake of fire... as in "reserved" for them. Jude 1: 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. I don't see no verse describing the devil setting loose those that are bound for mingling with the daughters of man to wage war. I don't see Jesus binding Legion in the way this teaching of the angels mingling with man are bound. They were just sent away as bound in that respect.Mark 5: 2And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Luke 8: 27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs. 28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. 29(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.) 30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. 31And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. The only reference of a devil being put out of commission is Satan being bound in a pit for a 1000 years for the milleniel reign and then he is set loose.So it is the "reserved" judgment for all the fallen angels that was spoken of in Jude as bound for the lake of fire.Matthew 25: 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
A good example of just seeing what you want to see Pariah you know there first estate was heaven you are told they left it yet you have devised your own explanation it ignores other parts of scripture has no decernable time line you are not rightly dividing the word you are mixing white throne judgement with Christs second coming. When you mix and match verse's you must rightly divide as to subject object and dispensationSo let me get this straight Is Satan coming to earth?does he have the key to the bottomless pit?Who is Satans Army he is brining with him?Whats your explanation of Rev 12
JEnoch's quoted message did not give a warning about fallen angels at all nor their intermingling with mankind since the scriptures went on about carnilty by itself as being on the same level of sin as those that Enoch prophesied against in order to keep oneself in the love of God as in abstaining from it.Jude 1: 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.In the coming quote from Jude, angels that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation... that is talking about Heaven, thus are they "reserved" in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day was referring to them receiving a coming judgment that is unavoidable... as in the devil and all his angels shall be cast into the lake of fire... as in "reserved" for them. Jude 1: 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. I don't see no verse describing the devil setting loose those that are bound for mingling with the daughters of man to wage war. I don't see Jesus binding Legion in the way this teaching of the angels mingling with man are bound. They were just sent away as bound in that respect.Mark 5: 2And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. Luke 8: 27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs. 28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. 29(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.) 30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. 31And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. The only reference of a devil being put out of commission is Satan being bound in a pit for a 1000 years for the milleniel reign and then he is set loose.So it is the "reserved" judgment for all the fallen angels that was spoken of in Jude as bound for the lake of fire.Matthew 25: 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
A good example of just seeing what you want to see Pariah you know there first estate was heaven you are told they left it yet you have devised your own explanation it ignores other parts of scripture has no decernable time line you are not rightly dividing the word you are mixing white throne judgement with Christs second coming. When you mix and match verse's you must rightly divide as to subject object and dispensationSo let me get this straight Is Satan coming to earth?does he have the key to the bottomless pit?Who is Satans Army he is brining with him?Whats your explanation of Rev 12
Pariah, I'm curious as to what you would believe that the first archē was? Your a little ambiguous on what they did to leave here.
I don't see no verse describing the devil setting loose those that are bound for mingling with the daughters of man to wage war. I don't see Jesus binding Legion in the way this teaching of the angels mingling with man are bound. They were just sent away as bound in that respect.
Furthermore, their binding here is obviously not a linear progression of time. Yes, the angels are now clearly bound, but there's nothing here that says anything about them always being bound. Obviously they had to leave their first estate, what they did when they left is clearly stated in Genesis 6.But let's let Scripture speak on the topic:I Corinthians 11:8-10
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
As the Word clearly says, the angels are not allowed to marry. However, some left their first estate in heaven as explained in Genesis 6.
I don't see no verse describing the devil setting loose those that are bound for mingling with the daughters of man to wage war. I don't see Jesus binding Legion in the way this teaching of the angels mingling with man are bound. They were just sent away as bound in that respect.
Furthermore, their binding here is obviously not a linear progression of time. Yes, the angels are now clearly bound, but there's nothing here that says anything about them always being bound. Obviously they had to leave their first estate, what they did when they left is clearly stated in Genesis 6.But let's let Scripture speak on the topic:I Corinthians 11:8-10
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
As the Word clearly says, the angels are not allowed to marry. However, some left their first estate in heaven as explained in Genesis 6.
Hi kriss,
So let me get this straight Is Satan coming to earth?does he have the key to the bottomless pit?Who is Satans Army he is brining with him?Whats your explanation of Rev 12
#1. Looks like Satan is coming to earth. Once that door is shut at the marriage supper of the Bride and Bridegroom, that will be the hour of trial upon the earth as the seal for the devil is coming upon the earth: note verse 12.Just as no man was up there before Jesus ascended, so it was for the devil. It was after He had ascended, has the devil began his accusations of the brethren, but it ends as it means his time is short upon the earth thus the great tribulation shall begin. I know you will say assumptions, but then again, the brethrens could not be accused of daily by the devil until Jesus has ascended, so I am talking within the parameters of what is written plainly in scriptures. I find it significant that in regards to the marriage supper of the Lamb, the door is mentioned as being shut thus the reason I see why the devil and his angels are no longer seen accusing the brethrens... for that door is shut to them as well. Kind of like a marriage.. some alone time with the Lord with no distractions.I do not see Satan with that key at all. I don't see any verse where he sets those fallen angels free from being bound for mixing with mankind. Do feel free to quote scriptures from the Bible. I do not see any plainly stating verses regarding this teaching of yours.Satan has his army now. My point is.. they didn't mingle with mankind at all. They are bound as in reserved for judgment as the lake of fire is prepared for them. If you believe that Satan is up there right now accusing our brethrens.. then he does so with the angels he has now... as it is mentioned that his angels are there also accusing the brethrens. Verse 7 cannot happen unless verse 10 is the same situation. They had to be there with the accuser.For all of Revelation 12, I would not presume to speak as if I know what everything in it is about since it is written that we all prophesy in part. I shall trust the Lord to help me interpret it for the relevancy.From verses 1-5, I see the past being reiterated here of Jesus birth, and ascension.I do not know what verse 6 means other than maybe a reference to the time of Israel in their flight after halfway through the great tribulation when the anti-christ reveals himself.Verses 7-14 seems to be a recap of explaining the event of verse 6 by going through all the prior events that lead up to verse 6 as it repeats again in verse 14 of verse 6... as onward to verse 17 shows how the devil and his angels are destined to fail in spite of all of its power used to flood Israel in wiping them out in the latter part of the great tribulation.I thank the Lord for the help. I know it is up to Him to enable you to receive this.
So let me get this straight Is Satan coming to earth?does he have the key to the bottomless pit?Who is Satans Army he is brining with him?Whats your explanation of Rev 12
#1. Looks like Satan is coming to earth. Once that door is shut at the marriage supper of the Bride and Bridegroom, that will be the hour of trial upon the earth as the seal for the devil is coming upon the earth: note verse 12.Just as no man was up there before Jesus ascended, so it was for the devil. It was after He had ascended, has the devil began his accusations of the brethren, but it ends as it means his time is short upon the earth thus the great tribulation shall begin. I know you will say assumptions, but then again, the brethrens could not be accused of daily by the devil until Jesus has ascended, so I am talking within the parameters of what is written plainly in scriptures. I find it significant that in regards to the marriage supper of the Lamb, the door is mentioned as being shut thus the reason I see why the devil and his angels are no longer seen accusing the brethrens... for that door is shut to them as well. Kind of like a marriage.. some alone time with the Lord with no distractions.I do not see Satan with that key at all. I don't see any verse where he sets those fallen angels free from being bound for mixing with mankind. Do feel free to quote scriptures from the Bible. I do not see any plainly stating verses regarding this teaching of yours.Satan has his army now. My point is.. they didn't mingle with mankind at all. They are bound as in reserved for judgment as the lake of fire is prepared for them. If you believe that Satan is up there right now accusing our brethrens.. then he does so with the angels he has now... as it is mentioned that his angels are there also accusing the brethrens. Verse 7 cannot happen unless verse 10 is the same situation. They had to be there with the accuser.For all of Revelation 12, I would not presume to speak as if I know what everything in it is about since it is written that we all prophesy in part. I shall trust the Lord to help me interpret it for the relevancy.From verses 1-5, I see the past being reiterated here of Jesus birth, and ascension.I do not know what verse 6 means other than maybe a reference to the time of Israel in their flight after halfway through the great tribulation when the anti-christ reveals himself.Verses 7-14 seems to be a recap of explaining the event of verse 6 by going through all the prior events that lead up to verse 6 as it repeats again in verse 14 of verse 6... as onward to verse 17 shows how the devil and his angels are destined to fail in spite of all of its power used to flood Israel in wiping them out in the latter part of the great tribulation.I thank the Lord for the help. I know it is up to Him to enable you to receive this.
Oh and kriss?Demons being sent out of the country and into the deep is not the same thing as the pit. Those are two references of the same event as two witnesses testifies of them just being sent away. Do note that Jesus bid their wishes.. sort of.. by sending them away into a herd of pigs... which went off of a cliff and died, if I recalled correctly. They just wanted to stay in that plane of existing which was granted only for a little bit.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursedRev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon. this is names for SatanRev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.Let me ask you something did you know that Gen and Rev (the alpha and the Omega)(the beginning and the End )are related?Just like in most any good book one is how the story starts and the other is the Ending to the same story.You cant understand fully the end til you get the beginning. Did you know Daniel is the old Testament lay over to Revelation.
Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,," The war is between Satan [the dragon] and his angels, who are fighting against Michael and his angels. Satan will lose. Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."This is the time of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, when Satan and his fallen angels are released upon the earth for the final five months period, spoken of in Revelation 9:5, 10. Satan will spend five months here on earth deceiving all mankind, then go to the pit for the thousand years. After that thousand years, Satan [not his fallen angels] will be released for a short period, then go to perdition [perish]. Once Satan is kicked out of heaven, he will not be allowed to return. Today Satan is in heaven accusing the saints before the Lord. Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."If you were ever confused who Satan is, John calls him by the names he used while playing his different roles on earth. The "dragon" is Satan's role in that first earth age, when one third of all of God's children followed him. Satan's evil spirit is allowed on earth now, along with his demons. However, you haven't seen Satan in person yet. Satan and his angels, both physically and bodily, will come to earth just as they did in Genesis 6.When Satan is cast out it will be as it was in the days of Noah. This is what Jesus said in Matthew 24:37: "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mankind will be mixing with the angels, and the women even marrying them just as was going on in Noah's day before the flood. Sodomy will be common, and all forms of filth will be made public, and accepted and considered normal. The world and the kenite influence is preparing us, and our mind to accept all forms of filth in sex and marriage as being natural; and to consider their perversion as being of God.Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power [authority] of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."This is why Satan's other name is "the accuser", for he continually stands before God's throne accusing all the saints of God. When you mess up, Satan will let God know about it. That is why it is important for us to repent immediately when we become aware of sin in our lives. Then all barriers between God and us are removed. Satan will continue to accuse you before God, right up to the time he is caste out to the earth.Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."When Satan and his fallen angles are cast out onto the earth, the "elect" and those who have the seal of God in their minds will overcome them through the power given them in Christ's blood. You are the "elect" when you understand who Satan is, and what will come to pass. God has promised you and I that we have power over Satan, and God's protection is extended to each of those sealed in their minds. "The word" of your testimony will allow you to overcome them, you won't even premeditate what to say, for God, through the Holy Spirit, will put the words in your mouth. The death that comes is to the "two witnesses" only, and to them it is for 84 hours [three and a half days].Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."When Satan is caste out, those dear souls in heaven will start a celebration in heaven. Those are the dear Christians that have died and are in heaven with the Father. However, Satan [the devil] is coming to earth with his angels to bring the wrath of their deception with them. Satan is not after your body, but after your soul. Satan knows God's word, and the judgment passed upon him. He is sentenced to death already, and he knows his time is short. He will come to earth with his bag of tricks, and lying wonders, and the with authority from God to deceive every man on this earth. The only exception is to those who have the seal [knowledge] of God [written in God's Word] in their minds for they will not be deceived. If you have not taken the time to put that truth in his Word into your mind, you will fall for Satan's razzle-dazzle sideshow of tricks. Satan will walk this earth with his fallen angels, and you will see them, hear their speech and even present themselves as fellow men. You are not going to fly out of here, but face them in this generation, and you will either stand against Satan and his realm, or you will fall. What is at stake here is your soul, and not your flesh body.Revelation 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."We see the woman here again, "Israel", who is now identified and promoting Jesus Christ. Though Satan has the rest of the heathen world, but also he wants your soul. If you still think the woman [Israel] are the Jews, It will be almost impossible for you to understand this. For "Israel" is the offspring also of the ten tribes that were scattered. Yet today they exist in large part as the Christian nations of the world.(the ten tribes that traveled into Scotland,Britain and eventully to the USA
This is exactly why I couldn't care less about the end times or what the book of Revelation means. It's all symbolic and everyone has their own opinion about how it's going to go down. We cannot know for sure so it's all just speculation. Besides, every single generation since Christ has thought THEY were the last ones. I say we all need to be ready for Christ's return, or our last day on earth. That could be tomorrow, or the distant future. In the meantime we have work to do - hungry to feed, naked to clothe, the gospel to share. Speculating on how it all ends is a total waste of time. If you could ask EVERY SINGLE GENERATION BEFORE US, they'd agree with me.
Hi Denver,
Pariah, I'm curious as to what you would believe that the first archē was? Your a little ambiguous on what they did to leave here.
What is an arche? If I am to understand your query here, you are wondering what they did in their first offense? Siding with Lucifer against God. That is enough to get kicked out.Satan first offense was getting Eve and then through her to Adam to break the one thing God told them not to do.... to sin. That is when they were seperated from God and were identified with the devil as fallen... and in sin. This was the addressing of the seed in prophecy in God foretelling of a future event in how He shall defeat the devil to His glory for what he has done in seperating His people from Him. We know that the seed is not a linear physical offspring progression because the two seeds described are giving the actions that are spiritual in nature as in the heel shall be bruised as the head is bruised. There is nothing in Genesis 6 that speaks of angels plainly. This is misinterpreting sons of God as being angels and they are not. This is a reference to the godly line of Adam through Seth where his son, Enos, was when men call upon the name of the Lord. So I am seeing a godly line like the Levites as other descendents were just going about their businesses in multiplying and subduing the earth. They know how to write the word angel and the devil and other terms quite clear in its meaning of what they infer so this "sons" of God in small "s" tells me that the teachings of the serpent seed is false because of the questions it raised for attributing the sons of God to angels.#1. Why would angels mingle with man when God has decreed that only kind can reproduce after their own kind? If there are no female angles, it would be presumptuous to believe that angels were given male parts. For what? They were not created to reproduce. We see hermaphroditic worms... we see eunochs... and we see angels that were created not to be marrying nor given in marriage.. and thus even in their fallen state, they still can't... as God has decreed in nature that kinds can only reproduce after its own kind. What is spoken remains. Jesus confirmed it by saying that flesh can only give birth to flesh so fallen angels or otherwise cannot mingle with flesh. All children are a heritage from the Lord. He forms everyone in the wombs. He brings man forth.We know how sin can wreck havoc on the body. Imagine a God fearing line of descendents. Would this slow the effect of sin down the lineage as opposed to others just going off to do their businesses? Then what would happen if somewhen down the line, those lineage cross?We know that by the scriptures, Cain is the son of Adam for it is clearly written that Adam knew his wife, she conceived and gave birth to Cain. That is plainly written for all to see so I do not how anyone can look between the lines and say Eve committed adultery with Satan in bringing forth Cain. That is a lie.Genesis 4: 1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. Psalm 127: 3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.I dare say.. after the fall and the curse, I doubt very much Eve would call Satan, Lord. AND I doubt if there were other people on the earth, that Adam would not have left her to find another wife if Eve had committed adultery as Jesus certainly gave permission for divorce in that being a just cause.#2. Why call the fallen angels the sons of God?#3. The nephilim.. or the giants as they were called the fallen... and yet mighty men.So the terms of the sons of God is not fitting the term angels at all nor the consequences of this assumed intermingling by them. As there were giants in the earth after the Flood, as David slew Goliath, I believe we are looking to something beyond man to bring forth these giants, but it still has to come from man... as I would infer the godly man as from the line of Seth.And if you think about it, the Greek mythology and the Norse mythology has "gods" mingling with man so I would believe that this serpent seed teaching is more of man.. more of the world than anyone is willing to admit. Reading the scriptures as is, one can find the truth within without referring to outside sources to read it with their colored glasses as from the Books of Enochs.So Genesis 6 is not about angels mixing with mankind because they cannot. The Flood happened because of the wickedness of man... as violence was in the earth. It did not say, because of the fallen angels mixing with man, that Noah, and his family must build an ark because they are the last one untouched by these fallen angels. Really think the fallen angels would not noticed this? If their whole purpose was to corrupt the bloodline, they could rape and that would be the end of it, but it is written that the sons of God took wives... as in marrying. They were of men.. of the godly line of Seth.. were marrying within the line...,and they saw other lines as in other children of Adam and eve of their lines..... the daughters of men .. and saw that they were fair.Incest wasn't incest until Leviticus 18. We know that the command to multiply was to Adam and Eve only as it was given to Noah and His family for Abraham married his sister... whon was not the daughter of his mother but the daughter of his father. It was when Isreal became a people and thus entering the promised land to become a nation was the command to not marry within the family was given in Leviticus 18.I leave it to the Lord to cause the increase.I hope He gives you, Jag , and kriss a dream to correct you of this false teaching of the seprent seed and soon. It shall be a same dream so you all know it is from Him. This I shall ask Him to do this, since for some reasons, you are unable to receive the correction plainly written in scriptures.When you guys get it, praise the Lord... not me.. for I am nothing. He had to correct me by the dreams and scriptures too.
Pariah, I'm curious as to what you would believe that the first archē was? Your a little ambiguous on what they did to leave here.
What is an arche? If I am to understand your query here, you are wondering what they did in their first offense? Siding with Lucifer against God. That is enough to get kicked out.Satan first offense was getting Eve and then through her to Adam to break the one thing God told them not to do.... to sin. That is when they were seperated from God and were identified with the devil as fallen... and in sin. This was the addressing of the seed in prophecy in God foretelling of a future event in how He shall defeat the devil to His glory for what he has done in seperating His people from Him. We know that the seed is not a linear physical offspring progression because the two seeds described are giving the actions that are spiritual in nature as in the heel shall be bruised as the head is bruised. There is nothing in Genesis 6 that speaks of angels plainly. This is misinterpreting sons of God as being angels and they are not. This is a reference to the godly line of Adam through Seth where his son, Enos, was when men call upon the name of the Lord. So I am seeing a godly line like the Levites as other descendents were just going about their businesses in multiplying and subduing the earth. They know how to write the word angel and the devil and other terms quite clear in its meaning of what they infer so this "sons" of God in small "s" tells me that the teachings of the serpent seed is false because of the questions it raised for attributing the sons of God to angels.#1. Why would angels mingle with man when God has decreed that only kind can reproduce after their own kind? If there are no female angles, it would be presumptuous to believe that angels were given male parts. For what? They were not created to reproduce. We see hermaphroditic worms... we see eunochs... and we see angels that were created not to be marrying nor given in marriage.. and thus even in their fallen state, they still can't... as God has decreed in nature that kinds can only reproduce after its own kind. What is spoken remains. Jesus confirmed it by saying that flesh can only give birth to flesh so fallen angels or otherwise cannot mingle with flesh. All children are a heritage from the Lord. He forms everyone in the wombs. He brings man forth.We know how sin can wreck havoc on the body. Imagine a God fearing line of descendents. Would this slow the effect of sin down the lineage as opposed to others just going off to do their businesses? Then what would happen if somewhen down the line, those lineage cross?We know that by the scriptures, Cain is the son of Adam for it is clearly written that Adam knew his wife, she conceived and gave birth to Cain. That is plainly written for all to see so I do not how anyone can look between the lines and say Eve committed adultery with Satan in bringing forth Cain. That is a lie.Genesis 4: 1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. Psalm 127: 3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.I dare say.. after the fall and the curse, I doubt very much Eve would call Satan, Lord. AND I doubt if there were other people on the earth, that Adam would not have left her to find another wife if Eve had committed adultery as Jesus certainly gave permission for divorce in that being a just cause.#2. Why call the fallen angels the sons of God?#3. The nephilim.. or the giants as they were called the fallen... and yet mighty men.So the terms of the sons of God is not fitting the term angels at all nor the consequences of this assumed intermingling by them. As there were giants in the earth after the Flood, as David slew Goliath, I believe we are looking to something beyond man to bring forth these giants, but it still has to come from man... as I would infer the godly man as from the line of Seth.And if you think about it, the Greek mythology and the Norse mythology has "gods" mingling with man so I would believe that this serpent seed teaching is more of man.. more of the world than anyone is willing to admit. Reading the scriptures as is, one can find the truth within without referring to outside sources to read it with their colored glasses as from the Books of Enochs.So Genesis 6 is not about angels mixing with mankind because they cannot. The Flood happened because of the wickedness of man... as violence was in the earth. It did not say, because of the fallen angels mixing with man, that Noah, and his family must build an ark because they are the last one untouched by these fallen angels. Really think the fallen angels would not noticed this? If their whole purpose was to corrupt the bloodline, they could rape and that would be the end of it, but it is written that the sons of God took wives... as in marrying. They were of men.. of the godly line of Seth.. were marrying within the line...,and they saw other lines as in other children of Adam and eve of their lines..... the daughters of men .. and saw that they were fair.Incest wasn't incest until Leviticus 18. We know that the command to multiply was to Adam and Eve only as it was given to Noah and His family for Abraham married his sister... whon was not the daughter of his mother but the daughter of his father. It was when Isreal became a people and thus entering the promised land to become a nation was the command to not marry within the family was given in Leviticus 18.I leave it to the Lord to cause the increase.I hope He gives you, Jag , and kriss a dream to correct you of this false teaching of the seprent seed and soon. It shall be a same dream so you all know it is from Him. This I shall ask Him to do this, since for some reasons, you are unable to receive the correction plainly written in scriptures.When you guys get it, praise the Lord... not me.. for I am nothing. He had to correct me by the dreams and scriptures too.
Uh, kriss,Maybe I am blind...you will probably get mad, but... the fifth angel is the one with the key to the bottomless pit as the angel of the bottomless pit. I know you are aquainting that angel with the star that is falling but you did quote another verse with it as apart from that star and with the key also thus the star is an event.. not the angel... just as the smoke that came out of the pit.I am not convinced that Apollyon is another name for Satan. Why not say Satan? John used his name in Revelation. Why be misleading?
when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
He was.. then not because he was in the pit bound for a 1000 years... and then is again.I have to get off, but try to remember , kriss, that Revelation is not always clear cut in meaning. You are still reading it with the eyeglasses from the Books of Enochs.Greek Mythology and Norse mythology has gods mingling with man so I do not see how you think the serpent seed is not.
when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
He was.. then not because he was in the pit bound for a 1000 years... and then is again.I have to get off, but try to remember , kriss, that Revelation is not always clear cut in meaning. You are still reading it with the eyeglasses from the Books of Enochs.Greek Mythology and Norse mythology has gods mingling with man so I do not see how you think the serpent seed is not.
(Peacebewithyou;26966)
This is exactly why I couldn't care less about the end times or what the book of Revelation means. It's all symbolic and everyone has their own opinion about how it's going to go down. We cannot know for sure so it's all just speculation. Besides, every single generation since Christ has thought THEY were the last ones. I say we all need to be ready for Christ's return, or our last day on earth. That could be tomorrow, or the distant future. In the meantime we have work to do - hungry to feed, naked to clothe, the gospel to share. Speculating on how it all ends is a total waste of time. If you could ask EVERY SINGLE GENERATION BEFORE US, they'd agree with me.
This is an attitude I dont understand how can you decide which part of Gods word is important and which is not if he did not expect us to read and care about he wouldn't have written it but then hey most religions do not want to bother with it its why they come up with lies like Rapture dont worry about revelation you are going to be raptured away, or some other excuse Men and their lies. Always knowing better than God.He told us the ending of the story because he loves us and wanted to prepare us for what will happen so we not be fooled by the delusions and lies of Antichrist(satan)To bad most religions and men dont care enough to put the effort into understanding it.__________________
This is exactly why I couldn't care less about the end times or what the book of Revelation means. It's all symbolic and everyone has their own opinion about how it's going to go down. We cannot know for sure so it's all just speculation. Besides, every single generation since Christ has thought THEY were the last ones. I say we all need to be ready for Christ's return, or our last day on earth. That could be tomorrow, or the distant future. In the meantime we have work to do - hungry to feed, naked to clothe, the gospel to share. Speculating on how it all ends is a total waste of time. If you could ask EVERY SINGLE GENERATION BEFORE US, they'd agree with me.
This is an attitude I dont understand how can you decide which part of Gods word is important and which is not if he did not expect us to read and care about he wouldn't have written it but then hey most religions do not want to bother with it its why they come up with lies like Rapture dont worry about revelation you are going to be raptured away, or some other excuse Men and their lies. Always knowing better than God.He told us the ending of the story because he loves us and wanted to prepare us for what will happen so we not be fooled by the delusions and lies of Antichrist(satan)To bad most religions and men dont care enough to put the effort into understanding it.__________________
(kriss;26971)
He told us the ending of the story because he loves us and wanted to prepare us for what will happen so we not be fooled by the delusions and lies of Antichrist(satan)To bad most religions and men dont care enough to put the effort into understanding it.__________________
Oh I never said not to prepare - you right so right, we have work to do. Feed the poor, clothe the naked, care for widows & orphans and spread the gospel message of Jesus Christ. We also need to prepare our hearts - make sure we are loving God with our whole soul, heart and minds and of course loving our neighbors as ourselves. I guess the difference between me & you is that I believe that God will care for His children, regardless of how the "end times" pan out. I'm leaving the details of it all up to my Father, rather than speculating on what this symbolizes or that symbolizes which is all just guesswork at best. Am I worried about the Anti-Christ? Not in the least. I belong to God and nothing can snatch me out of His hand.
He told us the ending of the story because he loves us and wanted to prepare us for what will happen so we not be fooled by the delusions and lies of Antichrist(satan)To bad most religions and men dont care enough to put the effort into understanding it.__________________
Oh I never said not to prepare - you right so right, we have work to do. Feed the poor, clothe the naked, care for widows & orphans and spread the gospel message of Jesus Christ. We also need to prepare our hearts - make sure we are loving God with our whole soul, heart and minds and of course loving our neighbors as ourselves. I guess the difference between me & you is that I believe that God will care for His children, regardless of how the "end times" pan out. I'm leaving the details of it all up to my Father, rather than speculating on what this symbolizes or that symbolizes which is all just guesswork at best. Am I worried about the Anti-Christ? Not in the least. I belong to God and nothing can snatch me out of His hand.
Pariah and KrissYou are fasinating women to listen too! If you debate long enough you not only become friends, but learn something new. I love your passion on knowing the truth. I feel very comfortable here where there is open and honest debate. I am glad your here and I get to know you gals.Thanks
(Pariah;26969)
Uh, kriss,Maybe I am blind...you will probably get mad, but... the fifth angel is the one with the key to the bottomless pit as the angel of the bottomless pit. I know you are aquainting that angel with the star that is falling but you did quote another verse with it as apart from that star and with the key also thus the star is an event.. not the angel... just as the smoke that came out of the pit.I am not convinced that Apollyon is another name for Satan. Why not say Satan? John used his name in Revelation. Why be misleading? He was.. then not because he was in the pit bound for a 1000 years... and then is again.I have to get off, but try to remember , kriss, that Revelation is not always clear cut in meaning. You are still reading it with the eyeglasses from the Books of Enochs.Greek Mythology and Norse mythology has gods mingling with man so I do not see how you think the serpent seed is not.
You are clearly not able to understand Rev. The seven angles were given seven trumpets each angel blew a trumpet to hearld the beginning of the next trump he satan was given the key to pit and if you dont believe appollyon is a name for Satan why dont you google it or look it up its notany secret and what does Enoch have to do with anything I understood the Bible years before I ever heard of the book Enoch you obviously have an Enoch obsession of some kind Enoch has nothing with anything but a history book that may or may not have any facts. If you cant get a history book out of head how you going to get scripture. I do NOT need Enoch I pointed it out for you as second wittness to Gen I have given nothing but scripture I have shown you nothing but what God says you are the one with the hangup not me. If one of us is blinded by Enoch it is you. I study scripture There is only one of us here being blinded by Enoch and that is not me you wont even read a clear scripture because it might mean you have to see That Satan is an angel and is coming to earth with his AngelsRev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. What do you not understand hereRev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. The angel sounded astar fell (Satan is the morning star Luke 10:18 tells you he saw this star fall and it was Satan and there was lightningRev also tell you that stars are symbolic for Angels(so is the bible lying)Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon. this is names for SatanAs I said if you dont believe this is Satan you can research pretty much anywhere you dont have to take my word
Uh, kriss,Maybe I am blind...you will probably get mad, but... the fifth angel is the one with the key to the bottomless pit as the angel of the bottomless pit. I know you are aquainting that angel with the star that is falling but you did quote another verse with it as apart from that star and with the key also thus the star is an event.. not the angel... just as the smoke that came out of the pit.I am not convinced that Apollyon is another name for Satan. Why not say Satan? John used his name in Revelation. Why be misleading? He was.. then not because he was in the pit bound for a 1000 years... and then is again.I have to get off, but try to remember , kriss, that Revelation is not always clear cut in meaning. You are still reading it with the eyeglasses from the Books of Enochs.Greek Mythology and Norse mythology has gods mingling with man so I do not see how you think the serpent seed is not.
You are clearly not able to understand Rev. The seven angles were given seven trumpets each angel blew a trumpet to hearld the beginning of the next trump he satan was given the key to pit and if you dont believe appollyon is a name for Satan why dont you google it or look it up its notany secret and what does Enoch have to do with anything I understood the Bible years before I ever heard of the book Enoch you obviously have an Enoch obsession of some kind Enoch has nothing with anything but a history book that may or may not have any facts. If you cant get a history book out of head how you going to get scripture. I do NOT need Enoch I pointed it out for you as second wittness to Gen I have given nothing but scripture I have shown you nothing but what God says you are the one with the hangup not me. If one of us is blinded by Enoch it is you. I study scripture There is only one of us here being blinded by Enoch and that is not me you wont even read a clear scripture because it might mean you have to see That Satan is an angel and is coming to earth with his AngelsRev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. What do you not understand hereRev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. The angel sounded astar fell (Satan is the morning star Luke 10:18 tells you he saw this star fall and it was Satan and there was lightningRev also tell you that stars are symbolic for Angels(so is the bible lying)Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon. this is names for SatanAs I said if you dont believe this is Satan you can research pretty much anywhere you dont have to take my word
Pariah, you really do have an obsession. An obsession of 1. Trying to prove the doctrine wrong...by thinking that we used "biblical books" as scriptures.(Note: I couldn't be bother reading these "biblical books" anyway...so I don't really need it. I'll stick with the Word of God.)2. Trying to get us rid the Truth, as the Truth makes sense, and the Truth gives us common sense. The author of the Truth is God Himself. Jag
Revelation 1:3
Then, you have the chapters of Mattew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21.Matthew 24:23-26
A very similar warning and instruction occurs in all three chapters. Christ is simply saying, "Hey, look, I've told you everything that is going to happen, exactly how it's going to happen!" The problem lies in us to interpret it. A lot of people never read the book for themselves. Yes, it is immensely symbolic, but it is not that difficult to understand because the vast majority of the symbols are explained. The rest, I would submit, are rather obvious. For example, the lamb that spake as a dragon in Revelation 13:11:
It's our from the Word that our Father is called the Lamb:Revelation 17:14
Our Lord certainly never speaks as a dragon, this must be talking about someone who appears as our Lord but the moment he opens his mouth he does not agree with our Lord. This character appears right smack dab in the middle of the book. Regardless of what view you hold - rapture or not - if you know that Scripture and say, you believe in the rapture, you'll see this Christ-like figure begin to speak and realize him for what he is.
Frankly, you couldn't be farther off from the truth with that statement. We have documented proof in Job 1 that Satan stood in front of God to accuse Job long before Christ died on the cross. Job itself is one of the oldest books in the Bible, dating at around 1500 years before Christ was born. I realize you may not accept that specific of a date, but regardless the book itself is old and older than, for certain, Christ's death on the cross.
Again, back to Job. Satan is cast out from heaven twice in Revelation 12. The second time has yet to happen.
Genesis 3:15
Thy seed and her seed. I don't know how much more specific it can get.
No need in going over it again, I have shown via several sources, with the Word first as always, where sons of God clearly is used to refer to the angels. I will not back down from this one bit, because it's pretty darn clear.Guess what the word for Genesis 6:2 is, it is none other than 'adam.http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.p...2&version=KJV#2It is talking about man, Adam's line included. Adam was a man the last few times I have checked Genesis.
Eve is not God and you better get that straight. Clearly, the only person who ever says anything about Cain being from God is Eve herself. I'm reminded of Cain's descendants claiming that the curse God put on him will grow in stature later in the very same book. God certainly never said it, it was not true.I think you're also missing the point here, because none of us have ever said that Eve would have called Satan her Lord. False assumption to be sure, and it's completely incorrect.
Nephilim is from fallen, again in unison with what I have previously said, this agrees with the Scripture that these giants are fallen, the result of the angels mingling with mankind.
I'll stick to the Word, thanks. Dreams don't only come from God.II Corinthians 11:14-15
All I can say, folks, is check your sources. The Word is first, and what you get from it is what counts, be it you believe on way or another on this topic.
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