God’s grace, plus the believer’s part: enduring faith, works, obedience!

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Angelina

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I agree with your premise RH. In hindsight, we can say then, that the Apostles were indeed the elect of God and in foresight we also have this hope which all creation waits upon....Romans 8:19, 20-25

Blessings!
 

Zachary

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StanJ said:
Plus, one is only part of the elect AFTER they are actually saved, never before.
From our viewpoint, yes ... but not from God's!
He knows WHO His elect are from BEFORE the foundation of the world, right?
 

StanJ

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Zachary said:
From our viewpoint, yes ... but not from God's!
He knows WHO His elect are from BEFORE the foundation of the world, right?
Yes He does, because He knows ALL. The issue is that foreknowledge precedes predestination, which is ONLY for the elect AFTER they are saved.
 

justaname

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6 For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,"
8 and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. - 1 Peter 2:6-8


Peter is saying some are destined to disobey and stumble. Stumbling is disobeying.

I would not think they are predetermined by God rather through rebellion, as all from Adam are in rebellion.

Let's read on some...


9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. - 1 Peter 2:9-10


Notice the emphasis is on God's choice, God's calling, and God's mercy. This is the contrast to those destined to stumble. Remember grace is favor.

So then back to the OP the good works we do are a means of honoring God not meriting salvation.

11 Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
12 Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. - 1 Peter 2:11-12

Christianity is different from all religion in that the focus is on God in Christ for salvation. Religion would have man's actions the measure for salvation. Christ paid the full penalty for sin on the cross. We can not add to it. It took an eternal being to pay an eternal debt in a condensed amount of time. We are merely the beneficiaries of God's favor (grace) in that we believe.
 

Wormwood

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THE FOCUS OF 1 PETER 2:8
The focus on 1 Peter 2 is "believing." Those who believe in Jesus are not put to shame/dishonored/humiliated. Yet, those who believe are given honor. This is the contrast. The emphasis is our belief. Then, the passages turn to the result of that personal choice of belief/disbelief:


THE RESULT OF BELIEF/UNBELIEF IN JESUS
Those who do not believe will find that the stone they rejected is the cornerstone. The one they cast out is the one upon whom all things are built. By casting out Jesus, they have thrown away the foundation upon which the household of God is built. As a result, the cornerstone becomes a rock of offense and stumbling. Their rejection of Jesus has determined their disobedience since rejecting Jesus is a rejection of God's central salvific work in the world.

On the other hand, those who choose to believe are declared to be a chosen race, a holy priesthood, etc.

So, the issue still lays at the feet of human choice. Believe in Jesus or reject Jesus. This choice determines your fate.

Those who believe - not ashamed, honored, accepted, chosen priesthood, holy nation, belonging to God.
Those who reject - reject the cornerstone, destined to disobey, put to shame, stumble over the stumbling stone.

Thus, this text is NOT saying that God has predetermined that people will disobey his Word (and I dont think justaname was implying that either). That makes God the author of sin and disobedience. May it never be! Rather, Peter is saying that how a person responds to Jesus will determine their eternal destiny. Those who reject Jesus are destined to humiliation, disobedience and shame while those who accept Jesus are declared to be "chosen," "holy," and will never be put to shame. We choose and our choice determines the fate God has predetermined for the believing and unbelieving...glory or humiliation.
 

StanJ

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justaname said:
6 For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,"
8 and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. - 1 Peter 2:6-8
Peter is saying some are destined to disobey and stumble. Stumbling is disobeying.
I would not think they are predetermined by God rather through rebellion, as all from Adam are in rebellion.
Let's read on some...
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. - 1 Peter 2:9-10
Notice the emphasis is on God's choice, God's calling, and God's mercy. This is the contrast to those destined to stumble. Remember grace is favor.
So then back to the OP the good works we do are a means of honoring God not meriting salvation.
11 Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
12 Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. - 1 Peter 2:11-12
Christianity is different from all religion in that the focus is on God in Christ for salvation. Religion would have man's actions the measure for salvation. Christ paid the full penalty for sin on the cross. We can not add to it. It took an eternal being to pay an eternal debt in a condensed amount of time. We are merely the beneficiaries of God's favor (grace) in that we believe.
1 Peter 2 is describing Jesus as the, 'stumbling block', and the language connotes that it is the religious that stumble. I don't know what the reason you're quoting above but it seems to be something that you yourself have paraphrased.
From the world's perspective, Christianity may be a religion but from the Christian's perspective our faith is not a religion. Sadly some will practice Christianity as a religion or are religious in their practices and this is what causes them to stumble because Jesus is not a religion, He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life!
Amen!!!
 

ATP

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StanJ said:
You would rather called God a liar than admit that you have been wrong.
Wrong at what. Those who don't believe are calling God a liar. I believe Stan. Do you believe?

1 John 5:10 NIV Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
 

StanJ

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ATP said:
Wrong at what. Those who don't believe are calling God a liar. I believe Stan. Do you believe?
1 John 5:10 NIV Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
All you're doing here is dodging what I said to you in post #281. The issue is not me believing, the issue is what YOU believe. You believe OSAS, but you can't support it from scripture despite all your copying and pasting of irrelevant verses. You really need to learn to stay on topic and stop zipping down all these rabbit trails ATP. You keep on stating the obvious but you make no point.
 

ATP

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StanJ said:
All you're doing here is dodging what I said to you in post #281. The issue is not me believing, the issue is what YOU believe. You believe OSAS, but you can't support it from scripture despite all your copying and pasting of irrelevant verses. You really need to learn to stay on topic and stop zipping down all these rabbit trails ATP. You keep on stating the obvious but you make no point.
The issue is in what we are believing in that gives us eternal life, Stan. "Whoever does not believe what?" What are they referring too?

1 John 5:10 NIV Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
 

StanJ

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ATP said:
The issue is in what we are believing in that gives us eternal life, Stan. "Whoever does not believe what?" What are they referring too?
1 John 5:10 NIV Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
Yes, that too and what you are believing is OSAS, which is not supported in scripture and you still fail to show it, so I fail to understand how you see something that isn't there. Well that's not true I do see it, it's called inculcation. The sad thing is you believe something you can't even support or prove.

James 1:12
Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
 

mjrhealth

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I guess he missed this bit..

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Men always denying the power of God unto salvation. Do people think that God would start something He couldnt finish.

Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Im sure God saw that man would rebell at every turn, He is not as shortsighted as men seem to make Him out to be.

I can just see the devil,

ha ha ha ha , God cant even save christians, for they dont believe He can.

Where is your faith??
 

Zachary

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justaname said:
We are merely the beneficiaries of God's favor (grace) in that we believe.
Yes, of course, butski we need to understand ...
what the NT really teaches about SAVING belief/faith.
It teaches way beyond merely John 3:16 and Eph 2:7-8.

E.G. The NT teaches that disobedience is unbelief (in Hebrews).
And it teaches that one must choose to be obedient,
which leads to righteousness, which leads to holiness,
which leads to eternal life (in the misunderstood Romans 6).

But, you may (and can) choose to ignore all such warning Scriptures.
 

Zachary

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StanJ said:
James 1:12
Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test,
that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
And, believe me when I promise:
I can prove from the NT that "the crown of life" refers to eternal life.

BTW, the key in the above verse is that
those who love the Lord will OBEY Him.
Again, care to see the Scriptural proof?

All I do with today's Laodicean church is to quote
Scriptural warnings which they refuse to believe!
However, the true elect of God heed them
... and that's why they are the elect.
 

ATP

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StanJ said:
Yes, that too and what you are believing is OSAS, which is not supported in scripture and you still fail to show it, so I fail to understand how you see something that isn't there. Well that's not true I do see it, it's called inculcation. The sad thing is you believe something you can't even support or prove.

James 1:12
Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
We've already received the crown of life when we believed. Notice the word "promised" in James 1:12 and Eph 1:13. Is unbelief keeping you..

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
 

ATP

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mjrhealth said:
I guess he missed this bit..

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Men always denying the power of God unto salvation. Do people think that God would start something He couldnt finish.

Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Im sure God saw that man would rebell at every turn, He is not as shortsighted as men seem to make Him out to be.

I can just see the devil,

ha ha ha ha , God cant even save christians, for they dont believe He can.

Where is your faith??
The word "faith"...

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

The word "kept"...

1 Thess 5:23 NIV May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jude 1:1 NIV Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are (agape) loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:
 

StanJ

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Zachary said:
And, believe me when I promise:
I can prove from the NT that "the crown of life" refers to eternal life
BTW, the key in the above verse is that
those who love the Lord will OBEY Him.
Again, care to see the Scriptural proof?
All I do with today's Laodicean church is to quote
Scriptural warnings which they refuse to believe!
However, the true elect of God heed them
... and that's why they are the elect.
I'm not sure why you keep addressing my posts as if I'm disagreeing with your POV? You seem to have a comprehension problem in this regard? You don't have to prove anything to me. I know exactly what the Crown of Life is and James tells us we will receive it when Jesus returns.

I'll tell you the same thing that I told ATP, quoting scripture doesn't help if you think one thing and somebody else thinks another thing. You actually have to exegete scripture by showing how your point of view is in that scripture then people will decide whether or not you're right or wrong.
 

StanJ

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ATP said:
We've already received the crown of life when we believed. Notice the word "promised" in James 1:12 and Eph 1:13. Is unbelief keeping you..
Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
There you go again. You refuse to see what James says here and that you will receive, not have received. According to the way you read the Bible, half of it is right and half of it is wrong. You either have to believe that it's all right or it's all wrong and I personally believe it's all right, so therefore what you think is contradictory is not contradictory, you just don't understand it properly. Ignoring scripture that shows you your belief in OSAS is wrong, IS just pushing you deeper and deeper into your false teaching and inculcation. If you're not careful you'll end up being one of the people Luke describes in Hebrews 6:4-6
I'm going to hazard a guess and say that you have never had the baptism of the Holy Spirit have you?
 

ATP

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StanJ said:
There you go again. You refuse to see what James says here and that you will receive, not have received. According to the way you read the Bible, half of it is right and half of it is wrong. You either have to believe that it's all right or it's all wrong and I personally believe it's all right, so therefore what you think is contradictory is not contradictory, you just don't understand it properly. Ignoring scripture that shows you your belief in OSAS is wrong, IS just pushing you deeper and deeper into your false teaching and inculcation. If you're not careful you'll end up being one of the people Luke describes in Hebrews 6:4-6
I'm going to hazard a guess and say that you have never had the baptism of the Holy Spirit have you?
I'm seeing the saint persevere because the promised Holy Spirit never leaves them. What do you think.
 

StanJ

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ATP said:
I'm seeing the saint persevere because the promised Holy Spirit never leaves them. What do you think.
Feigning obtuseness is what got you into trouble ATP. It clearly says WILL RECEIVE. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then the culpability is yours alone.
 

ATP

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StanJ said:
Feigning obtuseness is what got you into trouble ATP. It clearly says WILL RECEIVE. If you refuse to acknowledge that, then the culpability is yours alone.
I don't doubt God's faithfulness towards me so, doubting His gets you in trouble no. try to save yourself. good people in hell.