Daniel`s 70 Weeks.
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How could Jewish believers live sinless lives and everlasting righteous lives without Jesus landing on earth yet? Jesus is the only perfect being.Phoneman777 said:
It's pretty much check mate Phone, because you either have to accept that non-osas is false or accept the 70th week as future. Your move.
Phoneman777
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I knew you'd say that, but here's where you are mistaken: You claim that Jesus' sacrifice "finished transgression and made an end of sins" in the life of a believer so that continued indulgence in transgression and sinful behavior by a believer is no longer considered such in the eyes of God - the foundation of OSAS - which is ludicrous.ATP said:
I take the Biblical position that Jesus "finished transgression and made and end of sins" in the life of a believer because the believer now serves obedience unto righteousness and no longer sin (and transgression) unto death. Therefore, OSAS can still be the lie that it is, while it is still true that Jesus accomplished all 6 objectives found in Daniel 9:24 KJV including "finish transgression and made and end of sin" in the lives of Jewish believers.
Phoneman777
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I'll ask you again: Did Jesus "finish transgression and put an end to sin" in the lives of Jewish believers who accepted His death on the Cross?ATP said:How could Jewish believers live sinless lives and everlasting righteous lives without Jesus landing on earth yet? Jesus is the only perfect being.
Phoneman777
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Hey Dan, we're talking about you guys establishing a Biblical precedent where the fulfillment of a NUMERICALLY SPECIFIC TIME PROPHECY went beyond the stated numeric length of it because of the insertion of a "gap". I knew your link wouldn't have any before I even clicked on it. Let's review:Dan57 said:
- The numerically specific 120 years before the Deluge was 120 years with no gap.
- The numerically specific 7 years of plenty in Egypt was 7 years with no gap.
- The numerically specific 7 years of famine were also 7 years with no gap.
- The numerically specific 40 years of wilderness wandering was 40 years with no gap.
- The numerically specific 70 years of Babylonian captivity was 70 years with no gap.
- The numerically specific 7 years insanity of Nebuchadnezzer was 7 years with no gap.
- The numerically specific 3 1/2 years of Elijah's famine was 3 1/2 years with no gap.
- Every single other numerically specific Scripture time prophecy was from start to finish no longer than the stated numeric length - no gap.
- And the numerically specific 70 Weeks of Daniel 9 were 70 weeks with no gap.
Jesus is the reason there is everlasting righteousness. He is the doer, not man.Phoneman777 said:
This twisted notion you have of believers wallowing in sin is false, and it is blinding you.
According to you, no He did not. Because if He did the Jewish believers would not lose salvation as you so hopelessly believe.Phoneman777 said:
Phoneman777
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So very sorry, dear sister, I did miss it. Why the details? 2 reasons:Marilyn C said:Hi Phoneman777,
It seems you have missed my question, so I thought I would post it again.
Marilyn.
(1) To "seal up the vision and the prophecy" of the 2,300 Days that freaked out Daniel. Here he is thinking they're about to go home after 70 years and he hears about this 2,300 Days (years) business. So, God's "seal of assurance" that this far, mega-distant future prophecy of the "cleansing of the Sanctuary" would be fulfilled right on time was the very detailed and exact fulfillment of the "cut off" portion of it - the 70 Weeks, which
(2) was so detailed and so accurately fulfilled and had such power to convince first century Jews that Jesus was the Messiah that rabbis had to place The Rabbinic Curse on anyone who would attempt to calculate the arrival of Messiah, because after all, they couldn't have Jews discovering that "The Great Imposter" that they crucified was actually the prophesied Messiah, right?
Phoneman777
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So, did Jesus "finish the transgression and make and end of sins" in the lives of first century Jewish believers or not?ATP said:
I did answer your question, and the proof that God uses gaps is in Dan57's link. To lazy to read huh.Phoneman777 said:
(1) Lets examine some prophetic passages and see if there are gaps there.
Jesus, when speaking of fulfilment of prophecy actually does show us that there can be gaps in these passages and they can even show up in the middle of sentences;
Luke 4:17 “And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
Notice the end of verse 19. Now compare that to the original passage of Isaiah 61;
1 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;”
Notice that Jesus stopped in the middle of a sentence. The little word “and” comprises a gap of at least two thousand years. The day of vengeance of our God is a reference to the Tribulation period, which will occur immediately before Jesus’ return to set up His millennial kingdom on earth. This hasn’t happened to date, and is a yet future event.
This phenomenon is not limited to Isaiah 61, but can be demonstrated in other passages of Scripture.
(2) Zechariah chapter 11 as a prime example of a prophetic passage which skips through several different prophetic time periods in one chapter. Verses 1-2 appear to be referring to the Psalm 83 war, an End Times war.
1 Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars. 2 Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.
Verse 3 appears to refer to another war, possibly at another time. Usually the word “Jordan” in Scripture refers to the river, but this passage may actually be a reference to the modern nation. If this is the case it could be a reference to the Psalm 83 war, but I personally think it goes ever farther in the future to Armageddon itself:
3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
Verses 4-6 appear to refer to the time Israel was scattered among the nations. A skip back by several thousand years. While it could be a reference to the Tribulation, the fact that the Lord says “I will not deliver them” would seem to indicate a skip back to the scattering of Israel among the nations, shortly after Isaiah’s time:
4 “Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter; 5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not. 6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour’s hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them”.
In verses 7-10 the prophet appears to be taking on the identity of the Antichrist! The three shepherds he, cut-off in one month, appear to represent the three kings the Antichrist destroys in Daniel 7:8, and the breaking of the covenant in verse 10 appears to refer to the time when the Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel, in Daniel 9:27. While it could possibly still be connected to the scattering of Israel, yet God does not break His covenants. This makes me think of another person.
7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. 8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me. 9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. 10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
Then in verses 12-13 we have a beloved prophecy about Jesus and his betrayal by Judas, a prophecy that skips back some two thousand years from the previous verses.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
In Verse 14 the prophet goes back even farther in time to the split between Israel and Judah which occurred long before Isaiah was born, unless it is prophetic of another split in Israel in the future, which I doubt. I would think that it is more likely a reference to the fact that many Israelites did not join up with the Jews, but went to other parts of the world, like Pakistan and Afghanistan, and converted to Islam.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
Then in verses 15-17 the prophet once again goes forward in time to concentrate on the Antichrist. This time he focuses on a wound the Antichrist will receive, where he loses the use of one arm, and his right eye is blinded. This appears to be the result of the fatal wound he receives in Revelation 13:3-14. Evidently, when the Antichrist is “resurrected” he will be crippled from that time on.
15 And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. 16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. 17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
Here are the related passages from Revelation 13.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live
So, this chapter has some 5-7 jumps backward and forward in time! My point is that it really is impossible to understand prophetic passages without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The human mind can’t follow the skips and turns, and u-turns, that many of these passages take, not without help anyway.
(3) This gap in time is also seen in Zechariah 9:9 and 9:10. Verse 9 has Messiah entering Jerusalem on a Donkey and verse 10 has Messiah ruling over the nations. The time gap is known as Prophetic Compression. Prophetic compression is also demonstrated in Isaiah 9:6 and 9:7. Messiah is born a child in verse 6 and is ruling on David’s throne over the earth in verse 7.
Jesus, when speaking of fulfilment of prophecy actually does show us that there can be gaps in these passages and they can even show up in the middle of sentences;
Luke 4:17 “And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
Notice the end of verse 19. Now compare that to the original passage of Isaiah 61;
1 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;”
Notice that Jesus stopped in the middle of a sentence. The little word “and” comprises a gap of at least two thousand years. The day of vengeance of our God is a reference to the Tribulation period, which will occur immediately before Jesus’ return to set up His millennial kingdom on earth. This hasn’t happened to date, and is a yet future event.
This phenomenon is not limited to Isaiah 61, but can be demonstrated in other passages of Scripture.
(2) Zechariah chapter 11 as a prime example of a prophetic passage which skips through several different prophetic time periods in one chapter. Verses 1-2 appear to be referring to the Psalm 83 war, an End Times war.
1 Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars. 2 Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.
Verse 3 appears to refer to another war, possibly at another time. Usually the word “Jordan” in Scripture refers to the river, but this passage may actually be a reference to the modern nation. If this is the case it could be a reference to the Psalm 83 war, but I personally think it goes ever farther in the future to Armageddon itself:
3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
Verses 4-6 appear to refer to the time Israel was scattered among the nations. A skip back by several thousand years. While it could be a reference to the Tribulation, the fact that the Lord says “I will not deliver them” would seem to indicate a skip back to the scattering of Israel among the nations, shortly after Isaiah’s time:
4 “Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter; 5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not. 6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour’s hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them”.
In verses 7-10 the prophet appears to be taking on the identity of the Antichrist! The three shepherds he, cut-off in one month, appear to represent the three kings the Antichrist destroys in Daniel 7:8, and the breaking of the covenant in verse 10 appears to refer to the time when the Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel, in Daniel 9:27. While it could possibly still be connected to the scattering of Israel, yet God does not break His covenants. This makes me think of another person.
7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. 8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me. 9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. 10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
Then in verses 12-13 we have a beloved prophecy about Jesus and his betrayal by Judas, a prophecy that skips back some two thousand years from the previous verses.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
In Verse 14 the prophet goes back even farther in time to the split between Israel and Judah which occurred long before Isaiah was born, unless it is prophetic of another split in Israel in the future, which I doubt. I would think that it is more likely a reference to the fact that many Israelites did not join up with the Jews, but went to other parts of the world, like Pakistan and Afghanistan, and converted to Islam.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
Then in verses 15-17 the prophet once again goes forward in time to concentrate on the Antichrist. This time he focuses on a wound the Antichrist will receive, where he loses the use of one arm, and his right eye is blinded. This appears to be the result of the fatal wound he receives in Revelation 13:3-14. Evidently, when the Antichrist is “resurrected” he will be crippled from that time on.
15 And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. 16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. 17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
Here are the related passages from Revelation 13.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live
So, this chapter has some 5-7 jumps backward and forward in time! My point is that it really is impossible to understand prophetic passages without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The human mind can’t follow the skips and turns, and u-turns, that many of these passages take, not without help anyway.
(3) This gap in time is also seen in Zechariah 9:9 and 9:10. Verse 9 has Messiah entering Jerusalem on a Donkey and verse 10 has Messiah ruling over the nations. The time gap is known as Prophetic Compression. Prophetic compression is also demonstrated in Isaiah 9:6 and 9:7. Messiah is born a child in verse 6 and is ruling on David’s throne over the earth in verse 7.
Hi Phoneman777,Phoneman777 said:
That`s fine bro. Thank you for your thoughts. However -
1. Dan. 8. The 2300 days is referring to `the time of the end` (of Gentile rule), the `latter time of the indignation.` (Dan. 8: 17 & 19) so NOT referring to Christ`s time at all.
2. Dan 9. Specifically tells us why God has made the 70 weeks - `all Israel has transgressed your law, & has departed so as not to obey your voice; therefore the curse & the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. And He has confirmed His words which He spoke against us & against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us great disaster; for under the whole heaven such never has been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities & understand your truth.` (Dan. 9: 11 - 13)
`The Lord spoke to Moses.....But if you do not obey Me & do not carry out all these commandments....I will scatter you among the nations....then the land will enjoy its Sabbaths as long as it lies desolate & you are in your enemies land....` (Lev. 26: 14, 33)
Sabbath rests for the land are every 7th year & there were 70 of them, thus 70 x 7 for every year, not just the 7th. The people disobeyed God not just on the 7th year but every year in between. Thus God was chastising them.
For your thoughts you would need scriptures to back them up.
3. So if it is all about salvation, then why did God make Israel, when Christ could have come years after Adam, been killed, rose again, ascended, glorified & then judged mankind then. Why all the laws, tabernacle, working with Israel when for salvation, all that was needed was a perfect human sacrifice. Then why the Body of Christ when Christ has paid the price & could therefore come & judge mankind after He rose again. I think you are not understanding or taking into account God`s greater purposes where salvation is the means to the end.
Marilyn.
Phoneman777
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Marilyn C said:
Yes, but when do the 2,300 Days begin? The 70 and the 2,300 must begin at the same time - 457 B.C. - because the 70 must parallel the 2,300 for its duration, seeing that the 70 is a "cut off" (verse 24) smaller portion of the larger 2,300 Days. Therefore, while the 70 Weeks end 490 years later, the 2,300 Days zip right on down past the time of Christ to "the time of the end" when in 1844 A.D. the Heavenly Sanctuary began to be cleansed according to the prophecy.
I disagree - the above reasons you give point to why Israel was exiled, not for why Gabriel told Daniel about the 70 Weeks. Gabriel himself specifically told Daniel that he'd come to clear up Daniel's confusion over the "mareh" (2,300 Days) by giving him "skill and understanding", tells him to "understand the matter and consider the vision ("mareh")", and then immediately begins to impart this "skill and understanding" to Daniel by the revelation of the 70 Weeks.
Wow, these are a lot of "why" questions. I'll do my best:
1. God, as a promise kept to Abraham, called Israel to be His mouthpiece b/c what good would it have been for God to have ended the Great Controversy right after Eden and not allow Satan time enough for his seeds of rebellion to fully blossom into the horror that the Earth has become under his reign, and demonstrate to the Universe why only the Creator, and no creature, is qualified for His position? Therefore, Israel was to be the means by which God would shine the light of truth into a world in which he allowed Satan to darken by his rebellion. Unfortunately, Israel blew it. Listen to this timeless statement from the book, The Great Controversy, pp. 35:
"Through heathenism, Satan had for ages turned men away from God; but he won his great triumph in perverting the faith of Israel. By contemplating and worshiping their own conceptions, the heathen had lost a knowledge of God, and had become more and more corrupt. So it was with Israel. The principle that man can save himself by his own works lay at the foundation of every heathen religion; it had now become the principle of the Jewish religion."
The 70 Weeks were a probationary time period for Israel to get it straight and do what God had called them to do, but although they were cured of the idolatry that landed them in Babylon, in the end they rejected and murdered their Messiah. At the end of the 70 Weeks, in 34 A.D., God finally washed His hands of them by taking the kingdom of God from them and giving "a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" - the church.
2.
Hi Phoneman777,
Thank you for the detail of the Hebrew words for vision. (back at the start, just realised I needed to review it). I hadn`t known that before, so much appreciated. We could talk on the 2300 days here but I believe that detail is worthy of its own thread so I`ll put my notes together & post the thread. I hope you will join me there are I`m sure I have lots to learn as well as share.
As to all the `why`s` I do like your answer in general, concerning God`s righteousness to `demonstrate to the Universe why only the Creator, and no creature, is qualified for His position?` Then you go on to say that `Therefore, Israel was to be the means by which God would shine the light of truth into a world in which he allowed Satan to darken by his rebellion. Unfortunately, Israel blew it.` & `God finally washed His hands of them by taking the kingdom of God from them and giving "a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" - the church.`
Don`t you see how that is a contradiction. `no creature qualified,` yet you are now inferring that God expected Israel to be able to rule & when they couldn`t passed over them to the Body of Christ. (Where is His omniscience?) And were you ever able before Christ came by His Holy Spirit into your Life? Of course not. As you first said `no creature is qualified for his position.` However I can see that this is a great topic for yet another thread dear, bro.
Enjoy discussing with you, Marilyn.
Thank you for the detail of the Hebrew words for vision. (back at the start, just realised I needed to review it). I hadn`t known that before, so much appreciated. We could talk on the 2300 days here but I believe that detail is worthy of its own thread so I`ll put my notes together & post the thread. I hope you will join me there are I`m sure I have lots to learn as well as share.
As to all the `why`s` I do like your answer in general, concerning God`s righteousness to `demonstrate to the Universe why only the Creator, and no creature, is qualified for His position?` Then you go on to say that `Therefore, Israel was to be the means by which God would shine the light of truth into a world in which he allowed Satan to darken by his rebellion. Unfortunately, Israel blew it.` & `God finally washed His hands of them by taking the kingdom of God from them and giving "a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" - the church.`
Don`t you see how that is a contradiction. `no creature qualified,` yet you are now inferring that God expected Israel to be able to rule & when they couldn`t passed over them to the Body of Christ. (Where is His omniscience?) And were you ever able before Christ came by His Holy Spirit into your Life? Of course not. As you first said `no creature is qualified for his position.` However I can see that this is a great topic for yet another thread dear, bro.
Enjoy discussing with you, Marilyn.
Phoneman777
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Marilyn C said:
Thank you for the detail of the Hebrew words for vision. (back at the start, just realised I needed to review it). I hadn`t known that before, so much appreciated. We could talk on the 2300 days here but I believe that detail is worthy of its own thread so I`ll put my notes together & post the thread. I hope you will join me there are I`m sure I have lots to learn as well as share.
Your very welcome. That difference between the "hazon" which refers to the whole vision of chapter 8 and the "mareh" which is limited to only the 2,300 Days is an oft overlooked detail with mega implications.
No, because God never called anyone to rule the Universe in His stead - Lucifer took it upon himself to reach for this unattainable goal (Isaiah 14:12-14 KLV) Israel's purpose was not to rule in God's stead, but to be an ambassador of light and truth to a dark world. (Genesis 12:1-3 KJV)
The case is the same on Earth, where everyone and everything is subordinate to God.
Hi Phoneman777,Phoneman777 said:
Oh I see you mean `in His stead.` OK. However even though Israel had known of God through miracles, His prophetic word via Moses etc they were still carnal men. God knew they would fail, rebel against Him. Then as we know that God is omniscient, it still would be contradictory to believe God passed them by because of their failure. It would mean He was expecting them to do something that no one can do. It is only because of Christ`s life within us that we can do anything -
`...do not boast against the branches. But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.` (Rom. 11: 18)
`...the root is holy,..` (Rom. 11: 16) Thus the Lord Himself.
Marilyn.
Phoneman777
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God did not expect Israel to do anything they weren't capable of doing should they choose to cooperate with Him.Marilyn C said:
"All His biddings are enablings." (some impressive thinker said that but I don't know who)
Phoneman777
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Perhaps you don't understand what I mean by a "numerically specific time prophecy". A "numerically specific time prophecy" is a prophecy in Scripture where God used specific numeric values to describe the length of a prophetic event from start to finish. For example, the prophecy of the famine in Elijah's day was said by God to be specifically 3 1/2 years long, "3 1/2" being the numeric value denoting the length of the famine.ATP said:
Now that you are clear as to what I'm talking about, I am still waiting for you or anyone else to demonstrate from Scripture at least ONE SINGLE INSTANCE where a "numerically specific time prophecy" was given, but the duration of which exceeded the numerically specific allotment of time assigned by God to that prophetic event due to a "gap" having been inserted into that prophecy.
opcorn:Hi Phoneman777,Phoneman777 said:
I would like to show how the 70 weeks did not expire in Jesus` day.
1. Prophecy of the Messiah Prince to come after 483 years, (69 x 7).
`Know therefore & understand that from the going forth of the command to restore & rebuild Jerusalem UNTIL MESSIAH THE PRINCE, there shall be 7 weeks & 62 weeks;...(Dan. 9: 25)
Clear details there of Messiah the Prince coming after 69 weeks. very specific.
2. Another Prophecy with more detail.
`Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just & having salvation, lowly & riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.` (Zech. 9: 9)
So we read that Israel`s King will come to Jerusalem riding on a colt, the foal of a donkey. very specific.
3. The fulfilment of the prophecies.
`Now when they drew near to Jerusalem,& came to Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, "Go into the village opposite you, & immediately you will find a donkey tied, & a colt with her. Loose them & bring them to me........All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold your King is coming to you, lowly & sitting on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey......
And a great multitude spread garments on the road; others cut down branches from the trees & spread them on the road. Then the multitudes who went before & those who followed cried out saying, " hosanna to the son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!" (Matt. 21: 1 - 9)
Thus we realise that this event was prophesied by Daniel as to the exact timing, (69 Weeks) & prophesied by Zechariah as to where & in what manner this would come about. Jesus rode triumphantly like a commander of an army, (Prince - commander) into Jerusalem to the acclaim of the people, exactly as God said would happen.
Thus we see that Palm Sunday, (as it is called now) is just before Christ`s death. So there was no possibility of that time period being the full 70 Weeks.
Marilyn.
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