The Catholic Church gets put down a lot, but it was all that could help

tom55 · May 8, 2016

The Barrd said:
Perhaps you didn't understand the New Covenant completely. Let's go over it again:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

We no longer need someone to teach us about God, because He is as close to each one of us as our own heart, Tom.

"We no longer need someone to teach us about God"?

I can teach myself what scripture means? Since the Holy Spirit is guiding ME whatever I come up with when interpreting scripture is infallible? I suspect Billy Graham, The Baptist, The RCC, The Methodist and The Orthodox Church think they are infallible also. I know there are some things in scripture that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Your statement is not biblical.

tom55 · May 8, 2016

StanJ said:
I can only assume the why is because God never told them to do so, or that Apostles had been personally selected by Jesus, who never condoned or instructed them to replace Judas with Matthias. Do we really think that God condoned 'casting lots' to choose an Apostolic successor?
In my opinion Jesus himself chose the 12th apostle in Paul.

https://bible.org/question/how-did-we-get-our-bible-who-wrote-it-and-who-decided-what-order-put-it

Only some post garbage, especially when they cite dogma and not the Bible.

So I guess that what you are saying is that when they prayed, God didn't answer their prayer? They "cast lots" to decide and God was against it? Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

It seems to me what you are saying and what scripture is saying are two different things.

Phoneman777 · May 8, 2016

tom55 said:
You are right. According to scripture the Catholic Church has been around since the Gospel of John was written. It says that "even now are there many antichrists" (1 John 2:18). For 2000 years the RCC (the antichrist) has been lying and denying that Jesus is the Christ! (1 John 2:22). For 2000 years the RCC (the antichrist) has taught that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh. Scripture is proof that the RCC is the spirit of the antichrist and was already in the world 2000 years ago (1 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7).

It is definably an organization dominated by “the spirit of antichrist,” having a man at its head, so that when he died another would take his place, and the antichristian system (Catholic system) would continue.

Not wanting to split hairs, but I would mention that although the "many antichrists" (those desiring the people to look to them rather than Christ) were around since the beginning, the "organized apostasy" of the modern day Catholic church really did not emerge until after Constantine's legalization of Christianity in the 4th century, which gave the green light for these antichrists, who had hid themselves in the shadows while the faithful boldly left their testimonies written in their blood, to push themselves to the forefront of the movement and seize powerful positions of authority and begin a long history of "baptized paganism" which now so fully characterizes the RCC today.

Phoneman777 · May 8, 2016

tom55 said:
So when the bible says ALL it really means ALL??

John 12:19 "All the world has gone after him!" See, the whole world went after him...except it didn't!!

Mt 3:5-6 "Then went out to Him Jerusalem, and ALL Judea, and ALL the region about the Jordan; And an order went out from caesar Augustus that ALL the world should be counted." Yup, Yup, Yup, All of Judea and all the region of Jordan and they counted All of the world.

Rom 11:26 "ALL Israel shall be saved." Truly prophetic....all of Israel was saved. Wasn't it?

Rom 15:14 "...you yourselves are full of love, filled with ALL knowledge..." That's me and you...Filled with knowledge all of us are!!

Let's not be facetious, friend. "All" is often a relative term, depending on how it is applied, and can mean "all inhabitants of the world" or "all the then known world" or "all the world that impacts God's people", etc.

The claim that "all have sinned" refers to the whole of humanity is corroborated by other texts like "there is none righteous, no not one" and "all we like sheep have gone astray". Mary was as unrighteous as the rest of us, and that is why she referred to God as "MY Savior", and not "the Savior of the rest of you poor, pathetic losers". See the diff? If not, please explain why Mary referred to Him as such is she had no need of His salvation.

Phoneman777 · May 8, 2016

tom55 said:
Soooo that means I was sinning as soon as I was born? Or was I not part of "all" when I was born? Do we count people with mental disorders as all?

I think I see what you are doing here. ALL means ALL when it meets your agenda. When it doesn't meet your agenda it doesn't mean what it says!! :blink:

Yes, "ALL" have sinned, but not "ALL" are guilty in the sight of God, who winks at ignorance. Mary was neither a newborn nor impaired.

Beloved212 · May 8, 2016

The Rosary is a beautiful tribute to our Blessed Mother, who is the precious Mother of God, our savior. I'm glad praying the Rosary saved you. God Bless.

tom55 · May 8, 2016

Phoneman777 said:
Not wanting to split hairs, but I would mention that although the "many antichrists" (those desiring the people to look to them rather than Christ) were around since the beginning, the "organized apostasy" of the modern day Catholic church really did not emerge until after Constantine's legalization of Christianity in the 4th century, which gave the green light for these antichrists, who had hid themselves in the shadows while the faithful boldly left their testimonies written in their blood, to push themselves to the forefront of the movement and seize powerful positions of authority and begin a long history of "baptized paganism" which now so fully characterizes the RCC today.

How could have they been hiding in the shadows if they were written about in scripture? I'm confused!!

Why did they wait over 300 years, until Constantine, for the 'green light'? Did they know they would eventually get a green light so they 'hid themselves in the shadows' until the right moment? Your above statement doesn't make any sense to me.

Also, historically we know that the Catholic Church called itself Catholic BEFORE Constantine so how could have they been hiding in the shadows. Historically we know he gave Christianity the freedom to practice the faith openly without fear of persecution from the Romans. That's not the same as legalizing it. You have twisted history a little bit my friend.

tom55 · May 8, 2016

Phoneman777 said:
Yes, "ALL" have sinned, but not "ALL" are guilty in the sight of God, who winks at ignorance. Mary was neither a newborn nor impaired.

So the newborn and mentally ill sin but they are not guilty of their sin in the sight of God because they are ignorant? (I think thats what your saying)

tom55 · May 8, 2016

Phoneman777 said:
Let's not be facetious, friend. "All" is often a relative term, depending on how it is applied, and can mean "all inhabitants of the world" or "all the then known world" or "all the world that impacts God's people", etc.

The claim that "all have sinned" refers to the whole of humanity is corroborated by other texts like "there is none righteous, no not one" and "all we like sheep have gone astray". Mary was as unrighteous as the rest of us, and that is why she referred to God as "MY Savior", and not "the Savior of the rest of you poor, pathetic losers". See the diff? If not, please explain why Mary referred to Him as such is she had no need of His salvation.

Now I am even more confused. You quoted, "there is none righteous, no not one" as an example to defend your position and then said Mary was as unrighteous. However, we know that the bible says there ARE righteous men and the righteous will go into eternal life. So maybe ALL doesn't always mean ALL?

If I am about to fall into a hole and you save me, you are my savior, even though i never fell into the hole.

StanJ · May 8, 2016

ScaliaFan said:
then you need to forget about praying
because your prayer requests cannot be found in the Bible
no one ever hears from God save the Bible???
ok, well u are free to believe whatever u want

Jesus definitely taught us how to pray in the Bible. Have you forgotten about the Our Father? Or all the other things that Jesus said we should pray about?
Who sets precedent in the Christian Life? God or man?

StanJ · May 8, 2016

tom55 said:
So I guess that what you are saying is that when they prayed, God didn't answer their prayer? They "cast lots" to decide and God was against it? Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

It seems to me what you are saying and what scripture is saying are two different things.

No I'm saying I think they did their own thing and it wasn't necessarily something that God LEAD them to do. Pretty much the same thing that Israel did when they asked for a king and God gave them Saul despite Him not wanting them to have a king.

Phoneman777 · May 10, 2016

tom55 said:
How could have they been hiding in the shadows if they were written about in scripture? I'm confused!!

Why did they wait over 300 years, until Constantine, for the 'green light'? Did they know they would eventually get a green light so they 'hid themselves in the shadows' until the right moment? Your above statement doesn't make any sense to me.

Also, historically we know that the Catholic Church called itself Catholic BEFORE Constantine so how could have they been hiding in the shadows. Historically we know he gave Christianity the freedom to practice the faith openly without fear of persecution from the Romans. That's not the same as legalizing it. You have twisted history a little bit my friend

No, what I've written is what happened. Just as there are today men who believe themselves working for the cause of Christ while they selfishly skim from the collection plate, take advantage of vulnerable women (and children) of their congregations, compete with one another for who is the most influential, charismatic, successful, etc, the same spirit indwelt men of the early Christian centuries. They are no more willing to take a stand for truth at the expense of their own lives and reputations now as they were back in the early centurites. When these misguided men saw the opportunity to ascend to positions of power and influence in Rome when Constantine legalized Christianity, they did not hesitate. Instead of the Holy Spirit, their own selfish, unconsecrated hearts led them to govern the church in such as way as to open the floodgates for the corrupting influence of paganism. What resulted was the "falling away" from the truth of the church in Rome from the purity of the church which was founded in Palestine by Paul, Peter, etc. Please study the history of the early church from sources outside of those Roman Catholic and you will see that what I'm saying here is exactly what happened.

tom55 · May 11, 2016

Phoneman777 said:
No, what I've written is what happened. Just as there are today men who believe themselves working for the cause of Christ while they selfishly skim from the collection plate, take advantage of vulnerable women (and children) of their congregations, compete with one another for who is the most influential, charismatic, successful, etc, the same spirit indwelt men of the early Christian centuries. They are no more willing to take a stand for truth at the expense of their own lives and reputations now as they were back in the early centurites. When these misguided men saw the opportunity to ascend to positions of power and influence in Rome when Constantine legalized Christianity, they did not hesitate. Instead of the Holy Spirit, their own selfish, unconsecrated hearts led them to govern the church in such as way as to open the floodgates for the corrupting influence of paganism. What resulted was the "falling away" from the truth of the church in Rome from the purity of the church which was founded in Palestine by Paul, Peter, etc. Please study the history of the early church from sources outside of those Roman Catholic and you will see that what I'm saying here is exactly what happened.

What you have written (Constantine legalized Christianity) is NOT true. You are twisting history.

The antichrist wasn't hiding in the shadows because the antichrist was written about, known and visible in the NT times. One can't be hiding if one is known, visible AND being written about.

What you believe is not based on logic, scripture or historical known facts.

You can believe what you want however I feel it is my duty to defend the truth. The truth of our Christian history, which I love.

tom55 · May 11, 2016

StanJ said:
It states; Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Exegete this, show us exactly how your assertion can be supported by this scripture?

Yes the truth is in the Bible but 1 billion people have not extricated transubstantiation from the Bible. That is the whole thing about inculcated RCs. They believe what their institution tells them but they don't even bother to go to the Bible and see what the Bible says about it. So how about you show us where the Bible supports transubstantiation?

Catching up on old post/questions. I will do this (transubstantiation) , once again. My response is based on this definition:

Transubstantiation is the change of substance by which the bread and the wine offered in the sacrifice of the sacrament of the Eucharist during the Mass, become the physical Body and Blood of Jesus the Christ. The Catholic Church website says that it is a "mystery" or miracle.

[SIZE=12pt]Jesus said: I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died ( He was referencing Exodus16:4)[/SIZE]. This is the bread (He is referencing himself) which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. “For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. “This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever” (John 6).

[SIZE=12pt]Paul later re-affirms what Jesus said: I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say.[/SIZE] Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Corinthians 10:15) So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:27)

[SIZE=12pt]We must remember that Paul did not hear this from Jesus. He was taught this most likely by Peter. So if Peter is telling Paul that "the bread that we break is a participation in the body of Christ" then Peter must have believed it also. Furthermore, how can we eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner AND be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord if it is just a symbol? One can LOGICALLY conclude that Jesus meant what he said which was backed up by Paul which was taught to him most likely by Peter.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]So if we look at scripture which is a historical writing AND is God breathed then obviously God is telling us that it is not a symbol. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Now lets take a look at what our history books tell us and what the early Christians believed about the Eucharist. [/SIZE]

The Didache (written around 80 AD) says: But let none eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptized in the Lord's Name. For concerning this also did the Lord say, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs." The early Christians, during the time of the Apostles, believed the Eucharist was "holy" because they believed it is the body and blood of Christ.

[SIZE=12pt]In the year 110 AD Ignatius (a student of the Apostle John[/SIZE]) wrote: They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, [SIZE=12pt]which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. "[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]As we know Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John. That means John taught Ignatius that the Eucharist was more than just a symbol. Peter taught Paul that the Eucharist is more than just a symbol. Jesus taught John and Peter that the Eucharist was more than just a symbol. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Athenagoras of Athens (a Christian convert) wrote around 180 AD: Three things are alleged against us (Christians): atheism, THYSTEAN FEAST[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and Edipoen intercourse..” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Thyestean Feast is marked by the consumption of human flesh[/SIZE]. In other words, via historical writings, we know that the non-Christians of the 2nd century who did not participate in church services thought the Christians were eating real flesh during services. Why did they think that? Because the early Christians believed Jesus when he said, this is my body, this is my blood. They believed it, practiced it and pronounced it just like a lot of Christians do today, 2000 years later.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]So if you, StanJ, want to disregard what Jesus said, Paul said (most likely taught to him by Peter) Ignatius said (most likely taught to him by John) and the early Christians obviously believed and practiced then feel free to disregard it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I have given you the truth and facts backed up by scripture along with historical writings and practices of the early Christians. The truth shall set you free!![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Your welcome!!

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

StanJ · May 11, 2016

tom55 said:
Catching up on old post/questions. I will do this (transubstantiation) , once again. My response is based on this definition:

I have given you the truth and facts backed up by scripture along with historical writings and practices of the early Christians. The truth shall set you free!!

If you didn't learn from my first few submissions on this matter then me repeating myself won't help you one iota, because I gave you the truth and the truth has not set you free. Obviously based on this post, you're still bound by your inculcation.

tom55 · May 11, 2016

StanJ said:
If you didn't learn from my first few submissions on this matter then me repeating myself won't help you one iota, because I gave you the truth and the truth has not set you free. Obviously based on this post, you're still bound by your inculcation.

Hmmmm.....So instead of refuting the facts, history and scripture you just basically say 'I, StanJ, am right and you are wrong Tom55".

Interesting! I will pray for you!!

StanJ · May 11, 2016

tom55 said:
Hmmmm.....So instead of refuting the facts, history and scripture you just basically say 'I, StanJ, am right and you are wrong Tom55".
Interesting! I will pray for you!!

As I just said, I've already done so and if you're serious about praying it for me then please do so, as I can use all the prayer I can get.

ScaliaFan · May 11, 2016

Phoneman777 said:
"The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop proves unequivocally that Catholicism does not trace her roots to the primitive Christianity of 1st Century Palestine, but to the ancient Babylonian system of SUN WORSHIP.

The ancients worshiped DAGON, the "fish god", and would skin fish carcasses

Jesus is for everyone, is he not? Isn't he even for the un-educated people? Doesn't he want them saved also?

then why would he make it a requirement that people know greek and Aramaic (etc) and know all about the rituals of the Old t and etc...? how the Old T should be listened to in some ways, disregarded in others. all these intellectual questions and issues. Well, since Jesus wanted ALL to be in his Church, wanted all to be saved, he gave us His awesome PRESENCe, which is available to all (in the Catholic Churches 24/7). You don't even have to know how to read (Bible or anything) to be in HIS Church.

that is awesome to me.

I am not going to keep on learning and learning, only to get bogged down in facts and information about Jesus. I know his Presence. And i know that it is not to be found, to speak of, in the world at large, which is run by the devil..

that is not to take away from the greatness of the written Word, but as you know, God is bigger than the written Word. The Bible is finite. Jesus is not.

"always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (that's in the bible)

ScaliaFan · May 11, 2016

Beloved212 said:
The Rosary is a beautiful tribute to our Blessed Mother, who is the precious Mother of God, our savior. I'm glad praying the Rosary saved you. God Bless.

The rosary focuses more on Jesus than Mary. It is a journey through HIs life (and a little of hers)

R u Catholic?

ScaliaFan · May 11, 2016

StanJ said:
If you didn't learn from my first few submissions on this matter then me repeating myself won't help you one iota, because I gave you the truth and the truth has not set you free. Obviously based on this post, you're still bound by your inculcation.

no one has a handle on Truth (God's truth, objective truth) who does not have the Church. I, for one, do not listen to you (the anticathlics).

My sheep hear My voice and follow

they will not follow.. a false shepherd

-

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