The Lost Book(Missing Book) of Bible, is it bible is complete ?

(Ricky W;31125)
A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Thunder1;31038)
muhammed= a man, dead
Muhammad s.a.w. was one of His Messenger, and all of His Messenger is will be dead, none of everyone who has soul not feels dead.Wallaahu a'lam.Whatever a man claims does not always telling the truth. He is and will always be a sinner like everybody else.Jag

(Ricky W;31129)
A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimThat's was depend on your faith it self. But for you to know, Muhammad s.a.w. was never claim him self as prophet at the first time God revealed His Word. But after several human recognize him as a prophet and the most important is God him self witnesses he as a prophet.So we don't need your legality for Muhammad s.a.w. as a prophet enough God as a witness .And another post that keep my questioned hanged.So is there someone would be polite to answer it ?Wallaahu a'lam.
our God and allah are not the same.

Ricky W has asked a question, which should have an appropriate reply. After having just read through all that was said, I hope I have not misunderstood his question. So here is an answer in part.In the original page of this thread we find some who were unjustly critical of our Jewish neighbors. We must remember that a various times some or all of the tribes of Israel were sometimes disobedient and in various stages of apostasy. We must never lose sight of the fact it was one of the covenant tribes of Israel, namely the tribe of JUDAH, who were the very ones who preserved those sacred records, that we are blessed with today. It was those old testament records that Christ commanded us to search, which He declared "they are they which testify of Me".Today we say a Bible a Bible, we have got a Bible. The clear fact is that we would not have the vast majority of the Bible today were it not for those Jews who preserved those ancient sacred records.How many have on bended knee or directly thanked the Jews for preserving those sacred records? In this regard are we sometimes very guilty of the sin of gross ingratitude? Yes there are many sacred records that have been either lost, hidden, stolen, destroyed, withheld, etc. We are in no position to blame the Jews for this. The indication is that these records were extant at the time of Christ. We might well look to others since the time of Christ who carried the responsibility to care for those records. Man alone will be held accountable for the care and preservation of those records.If those records which were held to be scripture by Jesus and other prophets were to be brought forth today, we certainly have a responsibility to include them where proper.Of course the cry goes out regarding verification? How can those be verified?How were the existing bible books verified? Does anyone have the original manuscripts or even portions of the existing books of the bible? Inasmuch as we do not have the original manuscripts of all the bible to compare, how aere we to then be certain of their veracity?I guess the bottom line regarding Ricky W's question is "is the cannon of scripture complete?" Can additional scripture be added? What say ye?

I have not had time to read all the posts in this thread, so I will simply answer this first post of Ricky.First and most I am amazed how Muslims perform their polemics, and this thread is one reason why.Ricky wrote:
Here was the list of the lost book of the bible, which is i want to confirm to you (Christian) especially the scholars(but it's still open to others) to give the opinion .Numbers 21:14 (KJV) Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon.Where was that Book which is should be canonized as well ?
Elisha Kai replies:But why should this book be Canonized, who says that this book was a book that fitted the Canon? That is not to say that the Book of Wars of the Lord is a useless piece of historical material. It was simply not included in the Canon.Ricky wrote:
Joshua 10:13 (KJV) And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Where was the Book of Jasher, which Joshua claim this book should be exist ?
Elisha Kai replies:I will simply ask the same questions, who says that the book of Jasher is canonical, just becuase Joshua refers to Jasher, in no way it implies that the Jasher's book is necessarily canonical; it was simply a piece of historical verification of what is recorded in the book of Joshua.Ricky wrote:
1 Chronicles 29:29 (KJV) Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,Where was the book of Nathan the prophet and the book of Gad the seer really is ?
Elisha Kai replies: These books probably comprise the historical books of first and second Samuel and first and second Kings. But if they did not, so what? Can you show me where in the Bible we are told that every piece of revelation had to be preserved? Exactly no where!There were hundreds or probably thousands of prophets in Israel and Juda, all of these prophesized to the people, yet these prophesies have not been preserved, and why should they? they were first and most for the people at that time in that particular situation. We may also assume that some of this prophetic utterance was recorded (people did that) but such recordings much like the the spoken word has not survivid and did not need to survive. What has survived are the books we have in the Old Testament and New Testament Scripture; these lay a foundation for progressive Revelation and the divine history of Salvation including the foundation of our understanding of Jesus Christ and is work. And then again what is a Canon, Muslims are very concerned about this matter, and unfortunately some Christians too? A Canon is simply a list draw up by believers of the books they possess and consider reliable within that time and location. Which is why you may find Bibles that do not contain the entire list, or even some that mistakenly include a book that does not contain the value of such a status. For example the Sinaiticus including the Shephered of Hermes or Didache. These two books are not however, worthless, and may even contain revelation, yet they were commonly not included as a part of the Canon.If for example Luke's Gospel was deemed unworthy (and I do not suggest that), then Luke would still contains historical value, Luke would still present a challenge to Islam, but its removal from the Canon would not effect the rest of the Bible. This is unfurtunately how many Muslims argue. Ricky wrote:
Is it the bible has been corrupted by the Jews ?
Elisha Kai replies:I have just pointed out that the books you sited, where probably not canonical in the first place, and that revelation according to the Bible does not need to be preserved unless it needs to. So this does not imply corruption, exclusion of books is simply excluding material, not corrupting its content. Now if the Jews did corrupt the Old Testament, how do you explain these passages in the Qur'an:
“Say, O people of the book! You are not founded on anything until you PERFORM the TORAH and the GOSPEL, and what was revealed to you from your Lord” (Sura 5:68-71)
If Allah tells me in the Qur'an that I am founded on true religion by performing the Torah, who are you to tell me that the Torah has been corrupted?
O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and his Messenger, and the SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO HIS MESSENGER, AND the SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO THOSE BEFORE (HIM). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His BOOKS, His messengers, and the day of judgement, hath gone fare astray (Sura 4:136)
Does this not worry you Ricky, that you are violating one of the basic rules of the Qur'an, which requires you to believe in the Torah, otherwise you are not a Muslim, in other words hellfire is certain. To answer your question, yes the Bible is complete as to the Revelation we need, it is complete as to the revelation that was meant to be preserved.

I can see that Ricky commits a whole lot more fallacies on this thread, here are some corrections:Ricky wrote:
So far as i know from your source about christian history, It is not God who put together this recently Bible, but it was several people who was canonize the Bible. Gospel of Thomas if i'm not mistake, was one of the canonize Gospel, but then i don't know why lately was being apocrypha.
Elisha Kai Correct God reveals the word, man writes it down and compiles it, but if this is a problem for you then the Qur'an is a problem for you. In its early stages of Islam, there was not a written Qur'an, the writing of the Qur'an began when many of the memorizers were killed in battle and with them large parts of the Qur'an were lost; hence the Qur'an you possess today is not complete. After this event the Muslims began compiling whatever they could spare (but that is not the topic here). All I am saying is that if you condemn the Bible because of this, you need to reject the Qur'an as well.No, the Gospel of Thomas was never a part of the Canon, it was probably a Gnostic Gospel as it was found among the Nag Hammadi Gnostic literature, it was written in the middle or late second century, and contains Gnostic ideas. The Canonical Gospels have been historically verified to be written in the first century; in fact Papias the disciple of Irenaues and John the apostles, verifies several of these in early writing. Ricky wrote:
And again it was not prophet who recorded, but unknown person of the writers was the one who recorded. Those writer was only claim to be but it wasn't sure whether the person who was to be claim that really are the writers.
Elisha Kai replies: Who recorded what? if you refer to the Gospels, we know from Papias, Irenaeus and Justin Martyr that these were the written accounts of Jesus' eyewitnesses. That is what the Gospels are, the Gospel was never a revelation sent down from God, the Gospel is the account we have from the eyewitnesses, the apostles. This was duty that Jesus laid upon them before he left this earth. Hence to understand the teachings and person of Jesus in terms of history, you need to consult the apostles not Jesus. If you intend to know Jesus personally that is another matter. The account of the apostles may guide you in that matter. Irenaeus who was a disciple of Polycarp the disciple of John could verify this; he refers to all the four Gospels and their authors. Your argument is based upon the claims of modern atheist scholars, whose theory if you had read it in full would debunk Islam along with it. Ricky wrote:
Analogy :You are now live in Jesus time, in that you are often see Jesus prophecy about him self according to what that exists at the Torah and the prophets. Now I'm asking what would you say at that time, if Jesus prophecy about him self but using apocrypha Books ?
Elisha Kai replies: It is very much possible that the apocrypha contain a lot of Revelation, but much of it does not; hence despite the possibility of revelation they were not included. Revelation is not a sufficient reason to be included in the Canon, if that is your understanding. Furthermore, the Apocrypha were not just a series of writing they influenced the daily language and religous hopes of Jesus time, much like scientific language for example atoms, the laws of the universe, etc effects our language to day. Jesus would of course refer to them and utilize its language and he does. There are also example of apocryphic writings written after Jesus' death and resurrection referring to Jesus teaching.

Ricky wrote:
Event that was taken from Islamic Websites, but doesn't meant that was from Islamic thought.
Elisha Kai replies:I am sorry you need to rephrase that sentence, I did not really get it, sorry bro.Ricky wrote:
And about the Gospel of Thomas, i've got those info from ex-christian scholar of Indonesia people.
Elisha Kai replies:That is wrong information, only a few speculative scholars in the West who intend to describe Jesus as a Greek philosopher, attempt this idea, but it is highly speculative. And if true, then Jesus would not even be a prophet, neither did he perform miracles.Three points need to be considered here:The Gospel of Thomas did not exist in the first century, and was therefore not available among the first Christians who followed the four Gospels.The Gospel of Thomas was not accepted by the early Christians in the Second century, in fact it was rejected in the second century, and thirdly its teaching is Gnostic.Ricky wrote:And if you comparing with Islamic Quran Compilation, it was very different method that you Christian did.Elisha Kai replies:Well in Islam, there was no written Qur'an in existence when Muhammad died, the Qur'an had to be collected from memorizers, which was believed to be impossible, and many of these had died, taking Qur'anic passages with them to the grave (which is why the Qur'an you possess today is not complete), furthermore, when the compilation of the Qur'an began, you had a multiple number of them and they all differed, which is why the early Muslims had to burn them all accept the Qur'an of Ibn Zaid, which is why the Qur'an you have today is not the Qur'an of Allah, or Muhammad but that of Ibn Zaid. That one also had to be rewritten and later burned. So, yes you are right, the Islamic compilation does differ from the Christian Injeel. The Christians in the First and second century did not have to burn Bibles, to hid the problems. Neither would I say that the Christians had to ever compile, they always had it intact.Ricky wrote:
And we Muslim never ever condemn the Book that God reveals, but we are condemn as God condemn the Book that has been added and hided by some human hands made.
Elisha Kai replies:But condeming this book (the Bible) which is propose is corrupted, is condeming a book that the Qur'an confirms is not corrupted, and that all Muslims have a duty to believe in. The problem therefore remains that or either the Bible is corrupt as you say, but then the Qur'an tells you to believe in a Corrupted book. Or the Bible is not corrupted. Whatever you pick, the Qur'an remains a book of fabrication then!!!Ricky wrote:
And what God(Allaah) has command through Quran was to follow what He reveals to His Messenger, it's clear enough state in the Quran. And your fallacy of Quran meaning at others thread actually has been explain in that verse as well where God said more and less to follow what has been revealed to His Messenger, not man made. Some of those God Word it might still in your recent Books, but not all of them. And just wait for couple days or more, i'll try to make a response on your argument. Whether i'll be able to make it or not, i'll be tell you
Elisha Kai replies: I am sorry again you need to rephrase what you wrote, I did not get the full point.Well the Bible is the word of God and man, true, just take the historical prophets for an example, they remind more about Bukhari. You consider Bukhari to be the word of men, but yet deeply divinly inspired. Other parts of the Bible are pure revelation, such as parts of the Torah, and 15 of the prophetical (that is the non-historical prophetical books) books of the Old Testament. Then you have accounts, which contains divine teaching with history, a category in which we can place the Gospels.But then again what is the Qur'an, it was spoken by Muhammad, hence it is the word of a man, whatever you say. It was also compiled by man and written down by men. Much of the Qur'an is Talmudic material and there is a significant amount of Greek ideas, science and philosophy, this stuff cannot be the words of God!!!However, this is not the subject of this thread anyway.

Ricky. Jesus and the Holy Spirit both come from Yahweh. So they are Him, but in a sense aren't. It's called the trinity. And as for Jesus hating the Jews, that's completely wrong. The Lord came down to Earth to take the Jews into Paradise. However, they did not accept Him, and they crucified. After that God made it so that all people can go to heaven, doesn't matter who you are. You can be Jewish too, all you need to do is accept Christ as Lord.

out of the topic

This topic has drifted to and fro without the answers Ricky is seeking. Ricky, an honest question deserves an honest and respectful answer. I quoted an interesting point which Kriss alluded to in one of his responses.(kriss;27771)
No I said just the opposite Ricky the Bible IS authorized by God the point I was making was that even though people like Jasher and others may have been faithful followers they were not Apostles or their scribes may have made slight errors and sense there are no contradictions in Gods Word. Their writings could not end up in scripture it does not mean there is not correct information in their writings it is just God did not elect their writings to be part of scripture. I have read many of these and many are stories we already have in scripture just not toldas well. It is no different in Islam you have other writings that are not part of the Quran
The point in bold regarding the bible being authorized by God does not have any explanation or clarification on how that statement is arrived at. I gather however, that Kriss is explaining that only divinely called Apostles, Seers or Prophets would qualify to have their inspired writings or direct revelations to be a part of the canon of scripture. Perhaps what may better answer Ricky's question is the question of is or is not the cannon of scripture full and complete?My personal feelings regarding the Apochryphal writings are that at least a couple of them should have been included. Others definitely no.As the Bible declares that prophecy came not in times of old by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the spirit of God. In other words the bible consists in part, the divine revelations of God to man to guide, warn, direct, redirect, call to repentance and otherwise instruct man in proper conduct to meet the various challenges and circumstances and needs of mankind through many dispensations. In the book of Amos we learn that God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.When we take the above into consideration, then it should be clear to all, that anyone who is not a prophet or Apostle is not authorized to add to or delete anything pertaining to the scriptures. Was there any authorized prophet or Apostle present who could authoritatively declare what books were or were not to be included in the current canon of scripture? If not, then by what authority does any individual or body of men claim the right to add to or take from those sacred records in the compilation process? Was the spirit of the Lord present to inspire those involved to come to a unity and harmony in the decision process? Or was there a spirit of contention and heated argument present? Was there in fact anyone present who could authoritatively make the final decision?Man cannot authoritatively add to or take from the revealed word. Does this in any way limit God from yet revealing further light and knowledge and instruction from heaven?Have we become so righteous and perfect that we no longer need revelation?When we view the present day world conditions, was there ever a time when revelation is more needed than in our day?Yes, it is prophesied that there would be a famine of hearing the revealed word of the Lord. If we had ears to hear and hearts to understand, would this end the famine?Christ said he had many things to tell us which even the apostles were not yet ready to bear. Both old and new testament scripture prophesy that in the last days your young men will see visions and your old men shall dream dreams and that the Lords handmaidens and his servants shall prophesy. As this is fulfilled, it would appear that the famine of the hearing of the word of the Lord will end.My feelings are such that I know that I am not in a position to deny or prohibit the fulfillment of any of those prophecies. For that matter, is anyone in a position to deny the Lord from revealing anything he so chooses?The resurrected Christ came back to teach and instruct the disciples for more than forty days. How precious those instruction must have been from the resurrected Lord! I feel a personal pain for the loss or withholding of those most sacred records! Surely no one can deny that those words of the risen Lord to be anything other than mighty and powerful and of greatest value.Ricky has asked for an honest answer. My honest answer to you Ricky is: Yes, there are probably many wonderful and precious biblical records that were lost stolen destroyed or kept from us by one or more parties.Yes, there are some who falsely blame the Jews for these missing records. Scriptural evidence does not support this theory. (See my earlier post).Yes, God will hold accountable, those guilty of neglect, deception or willful destruction or withholding of sacred records.Yes, God is the same yesterday, today and forever. His divine plan and pattern was one of continuous revelation for thousands of years. Yes, there were periods of a famine of hearing the word of the Lord, due to apostacy and stoning to death His servants the prophets. But in all dispensations There have been Prophets to guide the Lord’s people and all who would have ears to hear.If all Christians would do as Christ directed to “believe all that the prophets have said”, then the true Christian motto should be “We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God.” For the scriptures do truly testify and prophesy of “the times of restitution of all things”.The New Testament speaks also of prophesies regarding the latter days of: “Dreams, Visions, “Latter day prophesying, yea even of Prophets that shall utter mighty prophesies in the latter days prior to second coming of Jesus Christ.”Christ said that he was not sent, but unto the lost tribes of Israel. Where were those lost tribes of Israel located? In relation to that, he also declared that “ I have other sheep not of this fold, them also I must bring and they shall to shall hear my voice and be of one fold and one shepherd.” If they were to hear his word and become a part of his fold, it is obvious that they may also have sacred records recording his teachings and visit to them as they also were visited and heard the voice of the resurrected Lord. Yes, Ricky it is truly regrettable that sacred records are missing. However great that loss may be, divine revelation is probably the only way that many things which have been lost or taken can be restored.If one cannot accept the principle of divine revelation, then we deny the scriptures and the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For when he comes to rule and reign, all things shall be made new, even a new heaven and a new earth and we must learn his laws of government and true pattern for living if we are to exist under his dominion during His millennial reign of peace. For out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.Isaiah 2:1-5 “1:the word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.5: O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.”

The Book Of The Covenant Code ( Exodus 24 ; 7 ) The Lost Book Of The Law ( 2Kings 22; 8 ) ...The Book Of The Wars Of The Sustainer ( Numbers 21 ; 14 ) The Book Of Jasher ( The Prohet Joshua 10 ; 13 ) ... The Book Of Shemaiah ( 2Chronicles By Prophet Ezra 12 ; 15 ) The Book Of Chronicles ( 2Kings 15 ; 15 , 1Kings 14; 19 ) The Book Of Life ( Revelation 3 ; 5 , Philippians 4 ; 3 ) The Book Of Samuel The Seer And Nathan The Prophet ( 1Chronicles 29 ; 29 The Book Acts Of Soomon ( 2Chronicles 9 ; 29 ) .. :study:

Moses Chapters 7,8,9 were never included in the Bible they are not lost but were never put in the Bible.

The question posed by Ricky W, The Lost Book(Missing Book) of Bible, is it bible is complete ? I wanted to commend you for your patience and persuasive answers you provided to Ricky W query. I found it enlightening, thank you…