The Nature of God

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epostle1

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דוד חֵן (David) said:
Research of me? NSA?
I preach to prepare the way for the Lord. I obviously did not get it from the Roman Catholic Church.
It's not the Church's fault you refused to listen.

I did not suggest that God had a personality disorder. You, the Roman Catholic Church, and her Harlots did.
David may not be theologically astute in his explanations of the Trinity with "personality disorder", I do not agree with that. But I am rather astute in identifying paranoid anti-Catholic bigotry. "Roman Catholic Church, and her Harlots did" looks to me like Dave Hunt or similar pack
of lies. If you are going to make mindless stabs at the Catholic Church, have the decency to provide scholarly documentation. By that I do not mean the psychotic ramblings of hate cults bearing false witness in their pathetic war against the CC 'in the name of Jesus' while pretending to be teachers. Scholarly documentation means primary and secondary sources, not hate speech.

I did not say that I am a scholar, neither did I say I am a promoter of heretics. I did say that I am David, the one who judges heretics and lunatics.
Judge heretics? Good. How about you include this one: scroll down to lie #7, it fits your flaming zinger.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/hunting-the-whore-of-babylon
 

tom55

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דוד חֵן (David) said:
"The Trinitarian belief is not untrue. It is clearly stated in scripture and supported by the history and belief of the Christian Church for 2,000 years."
I'm sorry, God had revealed that this isn't him:
bHLMHHH.jpg




p.s. "trinity" is only mentioned in the "Mystery Babylon's religion" and her "harlots". "The apple didn't fell far from the tree."
Got school, see you guys later...
So says David the self professed prophet.

David, the one who judges who is or isn't a heretical or a lunatic all at the tender alleged age of 16!!
 

epostle1

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I don't like derailing threads, but when I do it's to teach a lesson. Whether or not it is learned is another matter. Getting back on track...

The Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith, the truth from which all other truths proceed. The sending of the Son of God by the Father for the redemption of mankind and the indwelling of the Spirit in individual Christians (and in the Church corporately) are not understandable apart from the truth that God is One Divine Being existing in Three Persons: the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. This truth, then, is the fundamental revelation of the New Covenant, the highest doctrine in the hierarchy of revealed truth and the basic, distinctive characteristic of traditional, historic Christianity.

The Mystery of the Trinity

In theology, the Trinity is said to be a mystery. According to the First Vatican Council, a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains "hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness" (Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith, 4). It does not contradict reason, but goes beyond it. Thus, even though the mystery of the Trinity may be rational and coherent, it cannot fully be grasped by our understanding; part of it will always remain mysterious. The Trinity, since it pertains to the very life of God Himself, is the central mystery of the Christian faith (CCC 261).

Nevertheless, we can use analogies and figures to help us understand this mystery. However, even if certain analogies help us to better understand what God is, we have to remember the teaching of the Fourth Lateran Council, that “between creator and creature there can be noted no similarity so great that a greater dissimilarity cannot be seen between them” (Constitutions of Lateran IV, 2). Ultimately, because God is utterly unique, any analogy we invent to describe Him will fall far short of His reality.

Thus, humility is always needed when speaking of the Trinity, for we speak of the very life and being of God Himself.

The Trinity In Scripture

The Trinity is not formally defined or explained in Scripture; however, Christians have always seen the Trinity taught implicitly in several biblical passages. For example, John 1:1, in which it states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”This passage clearly states that the Word of God, while being God Himself, is also “with God.” Many other passages have been brought forward that support the Church’s traditional Trinitarian approach:
Gen. 1:26
Gen. 16:7-13
Ex. 3:2-14
Ps. 2:7
Ps. 110
Prov. 8
Wis. 7-8
Isa. 11:2
Ezk. 11:5
Matt. 28:19
Luke 3:22
John 8:58
John 10:33
2 Cor. 13:14
Eph, 4:4-6
Php. 2:1-2
Php. 2:9-11
1 John 5:7

Dogmatic Definitions

The Church has dogmatically defined the mystery of the Trinity many times. From the most ancient days of Christianity, Trinitarian faith was expressed in the Apostles’ Creed; the Didache (c. 70 AD) says baptism was administered “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

The most famous definition was at the Council of Nicaea (325), whose definition was meant as explaining the equality of the Father with the Son. The Nicene Creed, which we recite at Sunday Masses, states that the Son is “the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father.”
The Nicene definition was restated at the Council of Constantinople (381) and further defined at the subsequent regional councils at Toledo in the 5th-7th centuries, which were aimed at defining the orthodox Faith against the Arians, who denied the equality of the Father with the Son.

The Creed of St. Athanasius, also called to Quicumque Vult, was the most common formulation of Trinitarian faith used in the Middle Ages.

So we see that from the patristic era going into the Middle Ages, a standard formulation of the Trinity as one God in Three Persons was common. This formulation would be restated at subsequent Councils right up to the Second Vatican Council. The Catechism of the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Trinity can be found in paragraphs 232-267

read more on Trinitarian theology here.

The Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith, the truth from which all other truths proceed. Protestants generally agree. It's not proceeding truths that are wrong, it's how they are perceived.
 

michaelvpardo

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tom55 said:
Free Masonry was started in the mid 1800's, well after Jesus, so I am not sure what they have to do with the Trinitarian belief which started 2,000 years ago???


The Trinitarian belief is not untrue. It is clearly stated in scripture and supported by the history and belief of the Christian Church for 2,000 years.
Hi Tom, you clearly haven't done much research upon free-Masonry, but why study a whore anyway?
When you say that Trinitarian belief is not untrue you state a logical fallacy. That is, every form of Trinitarian belief would have to be true for your statement to be true. IF you want to qualify your statement by saying that a Trinitarian view of our God is true, then I wouldn't argue with you. I would however ask you to define the trinity in terms of God being One God as the scripture clearly says, and I don't mean by the example of a cloverleaf. Prior to Einstein's equations on relativity and special relativity, no one appears to have ever realized that time is part of creation, and an actual dimension of space. Without understanding that subtle point with regard to reality, it was impossible to even suggest how God has interacted with men in multiple persons yet remain One God. I'm grateful to Mr. Einstein for that, though he himself was not a believer in the God of scripture, but tried to imagine his own.
 

michaelvpardo

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דוד חֵן (David) said:
Research of me? NSA?

I did not suggest that God had a personality disorder. You, the Roman Catholic Church, and her Harlots did. I did not say that I am a scholar, neither did I say I am a promoter of heretics. I did say that I am David, the one who judges heretics and lunatics.
Sorry David, but now you're off the reservation. You might be one of 12,000, though now that seems in question, but you aren't the Christ, and Jesus is the judge of all men. Take a deep breath and then give a justification for your statement. We are all called to discern truth, and in some cases to participate in church discipline, but there is only one legitimate judge of the body of Christ and He hasn't returned in glory. Your namesake played the lunatic himself while living with philistines, so you should probably tread lightly in those areas for your own sake if not for that of those who were created in God's image and honor Him with what understanding they have.
 

tom55

Love your neighbor as yourself
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Michael V Pardo said:
Hi Tom, you clearly haven't done much research upon free-Masonry, but why study a whore anyway?
When you say that Trinitarian belief is not untrue you state a logical fallacy. That is, every form of Trinitarian belief would have to be true for your statement to be true. IF you want to qualify your statement by saying that a Trinitarian view of our God is true, then I wouldn't argue with you. I would however ask you to define the trinity in terms of God being One God as the scripture clearly says, and I don't mean by the example of a cloverleaf. Prior to Einstein's equations on relativity and special relativity, no one appears to have ever realized that time is part of creation, and an actual dimension of space. Without understanding that subtle point with regard to reality, it was impossible to even suggest how God has interacted with men in multiple persons yet remain One God. I'm grateful to Mr. Einstein for that, though he himself was not a believer in the God of scripture, but tried to imagine his own.
I am always willing to learn. What information can you provide me on Free Masonry showing that they started before the mid 1800's? (website link would be great)

Since it is well known (or should be well known) that we are discussing the Christian Trinity belief I assumed you would know what I meant. So your logical fallacy allegation is ridiculous and there is no reason to qualify my statement.

You can argue with me all you want. Just remember that you are not arguing with ME..... You are arguing with Scripture and 2,000 years of men who are much smarter and holier than you or I who have already debunked your theory. Your heretical belief was thoroughly debunked 2,000 years ago. Do you think that your belief/theory is new or radical?

Scripture does not clearly say that God is one God. You know what it says, you just don't want to accept it and there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. I look forward to you Free Masonry information.
 

michaelvpardo

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kepha31 said:
The Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith, the truth from which all other truths proceed. Protestants generally agree. It's not proceeding truths that are wrong, it's how they are perceived.
Well, according to the bible, the central mystery of the Christian faith is that God became a man:
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16 (this is also kind of handy for a Trinitarian view of God, yet God is One God and not three.
The word mystery is used quite a few times, but the concept of an eternal self existent God becoming man is by far the greatest mystery of the faith. The problem is that the church fathers were largely ignorant of the nature of the world and could only interpret scripture from a very limited knowledge base. Of course they considered the trinity to be the greatest mystery; they were unable to explain it. However, given an expanded understanding of the nature of creation, the trinity is both logical and the only way to understand what had appeared contradictory to the primitive mind. Since God knows all things, including where technology, knowledge, and understanding would go over the millennia, His word had to make sense to people of widely diverse world views and understandings. When interpreting scripture you always need to consider that some language will make no sense with regard to the knowledge of the time (or we would still be looking for four corners on a spherical globe.) Part of the beauty of scripture is that we can understand the meaning of archaic and prosaic phrases based upon their historical and temporal context, but still find a better understanding of other concepts based upon what we know to be true of creation that was unknown to our primitive lineage.
The scriptures are awesome because the author is awesome. Our understanding changes, but the word of God remains the same now and forever. Amen.
 

TopherNelson

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Michael V Pardo said:
Sorry David, but now you're off the reservation. You might be one of 12,000, though now that seems in question, but you aren't the Christ, and Jesus is the judge of all men. Take a deep breath and then give a justification for your statement. We are all called to discern truth, and in some cases to participate in church discipline, but there is only one legitimate judge of the body of Christ and He hasn't returned in glory. Your namesake played the lunatic himself while living with philistines, so you should probably tread lightly in those areas for your own sake if not for that of those who were created in God's image and honor Him with what understanding they have.
For it is written, "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor."
Leviticus 19:15
 

TopherNelson

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tom55 said:
So says David the self professed prophet.

David, the one who judges who is or isn't a heretical or a lunatic all at the tender alleged age of 16!!
I proclaim to know nothing at all save Yeshua the Messiah and Him crucified. I proclaim to be nobody whatsoever. Please stop putting grandiose words in my mouth. Why would I lie about being younger? People lie about being older, not younger.
 

tom55

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דוד חֵן (David) said:
I proclaim to know nothing at all save Yeshua the Messiah and Him crucified. I proclaim to be nobody whatsoever. Please stop putting grandiose words in my mouth. Why would I lie about being younger? People lie about being older, not younger.
You proclaim to know nothing? By reading your post that is not true.

Putting grandiose words in your mouth? Here is what YOU said: I did say that I am David, the one who judges heretics and lunatics. AND I am a messenger empowered by the spirit of God

I wish you luck on your Trinity theory. :wub:

 

michaelvpardo

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tom55 said:
I am always willing to learn. What information can you provide me on Free Masonry showing that they started before the mid 1800's? (website link would be great)

Since it is well known (or should be well known) that we are discussing the Christian Trinity belief I assumed you would know what I meant. So your logical fallacy allegation is ridiculous and there is no reason to qualify my statement.

Scripture does not clearly say that God is one God. You know what it says, you just don't want to accept it and there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. I look forward to you Free Masonry information.
There is absolutely nothing that I've said or written (of a theological nature) here that is not supported by scripture except the nature of time itself which was not understood by the authors of scripture.
I use website links for quick reference, but since the internet supplies far more misinformation than truth, you're better off going to source materials and there are more than a few written by Free-Masons about their history (in which they take great pride).
George Washington was a Free-Mason and was sworn into office on a Masonic bible by the grand master of Free-Masonry of New York at a ceremony outside the trinity church, just about a block from the present site of the World trade center. I'm pretty sure that this occurred before the 1800s. One of his most famous portraits shows him wearing the kid gloves of freemasonry along with the Mason's apron. He personally laid the cornerstone for the new capital in the District of Columbia and that day is celebrated by American Free-Masons on a regular basis (I'm unsure if its annual.)
I don't know if the books are available in print, but someone (probably a free-mason) took the time to convert many masonic books to electronic versions and many of these are available for free on-line. I own a kindle which I use primarily for reading, and Amazon provides many of these e-books for free to their kindle owners. One of the most informative on Free-Mason philosophy (from the few that I actually read) is titled "The symbolism of Freemasonry illustrating and Explaining Its Science and Philosophy, Its Legends, Myths and Symbols" (quite a title) by Albert G. Mackey, M.D. published in 1882. Another very informative book, with a great deal of historical information is titled "The Builders: A Story and Study of Masonry" written by Joseph Fort Newton and printed the first time in 1914. While its true that most books you might find in the public domain about Free-Masonry appear to have been written in the 1800s, the historical evidence provides for a history going back to at least the 1300s and to guild masonry. Guild masonry goes back at least as far as the Roman empire, and includes doctrines derived from Egyptian myth.
You need to consider that this is a secret society which actually makes initiates take a blood oath about divulgence of their mysteries, which makes Free-Masonry a difficult subject to write about for Masons. Also, the printing press is a relatively new invention in human history, so older books would be both rare and beyond the means of a working man. One well known protestant preacher, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, published his sermons in a magazine format called "The Sword and the Trowel." The sword part is understandable, being one description of the scripture from God, but the Trowel part is most definitely not found in the bible; it comes from Masonry and most likely from Free-Masonry, as the philanthropic bent of the face of Free-Masonry attracted many Christians to it. At one point in relatively recent history there was a dispute among the Free-Masons as to whether Christians should be allowed in the order, because Free-Masonry only recognizes Christ as a symbol of resurrection and not as God. I don't know if this was an attempt by Christians to Christianize free-masonry, but Christians had been welcomed into the order for centuries because the bible is full of symbolism and specifically symbolism which aligns with Masonic doctrine, even though the text refutes it.
I prefer to use texts written by Masons in good standing with Free-Masonry since these wouldn't be expected to hold a bias against it, and I'm more interested in truth than myth. The darkness of Free-Masonry is made evident by scripture itself, so there is no reason to cloud understanding with modern authors pushing agendas of one sort or another. You should also consider that while modern Free-Masonry was once condemned by the RCC, it wasn't that unusual for members of that church to become guild masons in Europe if they were involved in the design and building of Churches and Cathedrals. Free-Masonry, one of Satan's more clever inventions, has infiltrated organized religion all over the world and in every case has moved initiates gradually away from their beliefs and "up the stairs" to their concept of god, who is by no means the same as the God of scripture. If you examine the personal history of many modern cult leaders, you'll find that their public history started in a Masonic lodge. I honestly believe that if you look closely at the ecumenical movement, you'll find Free-Masonry behind it, because Free-Masonry is about accepting everyone with certain basic beliefs as part of their brotherhood, a belief in a god, and a belief in a resurrection and utopian type of future.
With regard to that final statement about scripture, lets go back to basics and look at the first commandment of what we refer to as the ten commandments.
6. `I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7. `You shall have no other gods before Me. Deuteronomy 5:6-7
Now, I'm no expert in any foreign language including Hebrew or Greek, but I'm pretty sure that both Greek and Hebrew have means of distinguishing what we call the personal pronoun in English, e.g. I, he, we, she, etc. You'll notice that in the commandment I and Me are understood and terms like "we are" and "us" are not used. There are many words used for God in the scripture, including the plural form "Elohim", which is used apologetically for Trinitarian doctrine. I actually have a Trinitarian doctrine and it would seem that David does as well, in that we see God when we consider the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but it isn't quite as simple or easy to misunderstand as that presented by the church for a very long time (in my case, but I can't speak for our friend.)
Also what the Jews refer to as the great sh'mah (?) is directly out of scripture: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! Deuteronomy 6:4
In this verse the word "one" is a translation of a Hebrew word commonly spelled "echad" which can represent the number 1 or the concept "unity" which mathematically is the same thing. People that have a good grasp on Trinitarian doctrine will go with the "unity" translation which doesn't imply a plurality (or a word representing plurality would have been used by God) but doesn't imply a singularity either. The foundation of the Jewish religion and of the Christian religion is that there is one God, only one. If you don't understand that, go to a theologian that you trust and ask.
 

michaelvpardo

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דוד חֵן (David) said:
For it is written, "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor."
Leviticus 19:15
Most people believe that this is intended for the priests, who were responsible for settling legal disputes and could invoke capital punishment for offenses that the rest of the world trivializes. There is a passage in the New Testament that discusses the way to handle weaker brothers (or sisters) in the Lord, and this would include the doctrinally weak in its application, but I like this verse in particular as it lets us know that God doesn't judge us from moment to moment, but has left judgment in the church with the church, and has made mercy and love the normal order of the church:
Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4
So, if you are Christ's, then you really have no business making judgments about your brothers with regard to sin and trespass, beyond what the scripture explicitly calls sin, and even then our calling is to try to gently correct and restore. If you really are 16, then I wouldn't expect too many older men or women to receive your judgments and rebukes as anything other than impudence or self delusion. Please try not to be offended, but we all fail in these things, sometimes very badly. I don't think that our Lord would put unity over doctrine, but He is greatly concerned with unity in His church (not His denomination) and desires us to mature.
 

tom55

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There is absolutely nothing that I've said or written (of a theological nature) here that is not supported by scripture except the nature of time itself which was not understood by the authors of scripture.
I use website links for quick reference, but since the internet supplies far more misinformation than truth, you're better off going to source materials and there are more than a few written by Free-Masons about their history (in which they take great pride).
George Washington was a Free-Mason and was sworn into office on a Masonic bible by the grand master of Free-Masonry of New York at a ceremony outside the trinity church, just about a block from the present site of the World trade center. I'm pretty sure that this occurred before the 1800s. One of his most famous portraits shows him wearing the kid gloves of freemasonry along with the Mason's apron. He personally laid the cornerstone for the new capital in the District of Columbia and that day is celebrated by American Free-Masons on a regular basis (I'm unsure if its annual.)
I don't know if the books are available in print, but someone (probably a free-mason) took the time to convert many masonic books to electronic versions and many of these are available for free on-line. I own a kindle which I use primarily for reading, and Amazon provides many of these e-books for free to their kindle owners. One of the most informative on Free-Mason philosophy (from the few that I actually read) is titled "The symbolism of Freemasonry illustrating and Explaining Its Science and Philosophy, Its Legends, Myths and Symbols" (quite a title) by Albert G. Mackey, M.D. published in 1882. Another very informative book, with a great deal of historical information is titled "The Builders: A Story and Study of Masonry" written by Joseph Fort Newton and printed the first time in 1914. While its true that most books you might find in the public domain about Free-Masonry appear to have been written in the 1800s, the historical evidence provides for a history going back to at least the 1300s and to guild masonry. Guild masonry goes back at least as far as the Roman empire, and includes doctrines derived from Egyptian myth.
You need to consider that this is a secret society which actually makes initiates take a blood oath about divulgence of their mysteries, which makes Free-Masonry a difficult subject to write about for Masons. Also, the printing press is a relatively new invention in human history, so older books would be both rare and beyond the means of a working man. One well known protestant preacher, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, published his sermons in a magazine format called "The Sword and the Trowel." The sword part is understandable, being one description of the scripture from God, but the Trowel part is most definitely not found in the bible; it comes from Masonry and most likely from Free-Masonry, as the philanthropic bent of the face of Free-Masonry attracted many Christians to it. At one point in relatively recent history there was a dispute among the Free-Masons as to whether Christians should be allowed in the order, because Free-Masonry only recognizes Christ as a symbol of resurrection and not as God. I don't know if this was an attempt by Christians to Christianize free-masonry, but Christians had been welcomed into the order for centuries because the bible is full of symbolism and specifically symbolism which aligns with Masonic doctrine, even though the text refutes it.
I prefer to use texts written by Masons in good standing with Free-Masonry since these wouldn't be expected to hold a bias against it, and I'm more interested in truth than myth. The darkness of Free-Masonry is made evident by scripture itself, so there is no reason to cloud understanding with modern authors pushing agendas of one sort or another. You should also consider that while modern Free-Masonry was once condemned by the RCC, it wasn't that unusual for members of that church to become guild masons in Europe if they were involved in the design and building of Churches and Cathedrals. Free-Masonry, one of Satan's more clever inventions, has infiltrated organized religion all over the world and in every case has moved initiates gradually away from their beliefs and "up the stairs" to their concept of god, who is by no means the same as the God of scripture. If you examine the personal history of many modern cult leaders, you'll find that their public history started in a Masonic lodge. I honestly believe that if you look closely at the ecumenical movement, you'll find Free-Masonry behind it, because Free-Masonry is about accepting everyone with certain basic beliefs as part of their brotherhood, a belief in a god, and a belief in a resurrection and utopian type of future.
With regard to that final statement about scripture, lets go back to basics and look at the first commandment of what we refer to as the ten commandments.
6. `I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7. `You shall have no other gods before Me. Deuteronomy 5:6-7
Now, I'm no expert in any foreign language including Hebrew or Greek, but I'm pretty sure that both Greek and Hebrew have means of distinguishing what we call the personal pronoun in English, e.g. I, he, we, she, etc. You'll notice that in the commandment I and Me are understood and terms like "we are" and "us" are not used. There are many words used for God in the scripture, including the plural form "Elohim", which is used apologetically for Trinitarian doctrine. I actually have a Trinitarian doctrine and it would seem that David does as well, in that we see God when we consider the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but it isn't quite as simple or easy to misunderstand as that presented by the church for a very long time (in my case, but I can't speak for our friend.)
Also what the Jews refer to as the great sh'mah (?) is directly out of scripture: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! Deuteronomy 6:4
In this verse the word "one" is a translation of a Hebrew word commonly spelled "echad" which can represent the number 1 or the concept "unity" which mathematically is the same thing. People that have a good grasp on Trinitarian doctrine will go with the "unity" translation which doesn't imply a plurality (or a word representing plurality would have been used by God) but doesn't imply a singularity either. The foundation of the Jewish religion and of the Christian religion is that there is one God, only one. If you don't understand that, go to a theologian that you trust and ask.

In this verse the word "one" is a translation of a Hebrew word commonly spelled "echad" which can represent the number 1 or the concept "unity" which mathematically is the same thing. People that have a good grasp on Trinitarian doctrine will go with the "unity" translation which doesn't imply a plurality (or a word representing plurality would have been used by God) but doesn't imply a singularity either. The foundation of the Jewish religion and of the Christian religion is that there is one God, only one. If you don't understand that, go to a theologian that you trust and ask.[/quote]
I sincerely apologize. I did say mid 1800's and I don't know why. I made a honest mistake when I wrote that date.I have read that they started in the 1700's with some historians sheepishly suggesting (with great reservation) possibly in the 1300's. There is zero, none nada' zilch evidence they were formed prior to the 1300's. Even you can't give historical evidence for that and you seem to believe it.

You said, ..."if you find some decent writings about Free Masonry and the mystery religions (such as the worship of Osiris in Egypt, a murdered and resurrected god) you'll see that the Trinitarian idea of God didn't begin with Christ,..."

Since the Free Masons did not start until the 1700's (1600 years after the first mention of the Trinity) I don't see how your statement makes sense. That is the point I am trying to make.

Also, your Osiris theory is not true. It is an easly provable inaccurate statement on your part.

Also, the RCC forbids it's members to join Free Masonry. http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-does-the-church-say-about-freemasonry

I know there is nothing I can say that will change your mind on the Trinity. As long as you understand what you believe is heretical.
 

TopherNelson

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You think you are rich, yet you are poor. You think you are clothed, yet you are naked.
Now hear this, O foolish and senseless people, Who have eyes but do not see; Who have ears but do not hear.
I do not fear men, I'll rather fear the Lord.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
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דוד חֵן (David) said:
You think you are rich, yet you are poor. You think you are clothed, yet you are naked.
Now hear this, O foolish and senseless people, Who have eyes but do not see; Who have ears but do not hear.
I do not fear men, I'll rather fear the Lord.
Then I guess you will enjoy the conversations with yourself.
 

TopherNelson

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So many people reject the biblical God after reading things they don't like in the bible; then go on still thinking they are believers. Believers in who if not the biblical God?
 

TopherNelson

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tom55 said:
You proclaim to know nothing? By reading your post that is not true.

Putting grandiose words in your mouth? Here is what YOU said: I did say that I am David, the one who judges heretics and lunatics. AND I am a messenger empowered by the spirit of God

I wish you luck on your Trinity theory. :wub:

Everyone is a messenger and everyone with God's SPIRIT is empowered. Except those without God's spirit.
 

TopherNelson

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God is a Jealous God.

A passage for Roman Catholics:
"You will not make for yourself any graven image of any thing in the heaven's above, the earth beneath, or the waters under the earth; you will not reverence them nor adore them. For I, YAHWEH your God am a Jealous God."