All Israel will be saved

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Heb 13:8

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keras said:
I have always agreed that at the Return of Jesus, there will be a 'harpazo', a gathering of the Lord's people from around the world, to where He is. In Jerusalem.
The error you rapture believers make, is thinking that is in heaven. There is a precedent for a spiritual transportation between two earth locations; with Philip. Acts 8:39
Why not just use the word "epairó" since we'll already have our resurrected bodies. Why did Paul use harpazo. Why be rescued when we don't need to. Why "obtain by robbery" when there's nothing to steal.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up (epairó) before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

epairó: to lift up
Original Word: ἐπαίρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epairó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ahee'-ro)
Short Definition: I raise, lift up
Definition: I raise, lift up.

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

τινα ἐκ πυρός, proverbial, to rescue from the danger of destruction, Jude 1:23 (Amos 4:11; Zechariah 3:2); τινα,
 

Dcopymope

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
I actually laughed out loud.
The pure fantasy of saying destruction comes on a day that the Lord heals then leads the blind writer to double up his fantasy whereby fire darkens. Truly hilarious. And a thermite reaction as truth? Really now... It just keeps getting weirder and weirder.
The scripture he cites as his evidence for this such as Isaiah 30:26 isn't even referring to the judgement. This seems to be more figure of speech for how joyful the saints will be with the establishment of the new Jerusalem. In fact, taking all of chapter 30 in context, this is exactly the time period that the verse is referring to. They will be so overjoyed that it will be like the moon became as bright as the sun and the sun itself became seven times brighter. This is not saying that the sun will become seven times brighter literally.

(Isaiah 30:18-19) "¶ And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him. {19} For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee."

(Isaiah 1:4-6) "Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. {5} ¶ Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. {6} From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment."

(Isaiah 30:26) "Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound."
 

Heb 13:8

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Dcopymope said:
The scripture he cites as his evidence for this such as Isaiah 30:26 isn't even referring to the judgement. This seems to be more figure of speech for how joyful the saints will be with the establishment of the new Jerusalem. In fact, taking all of chapter 30 in context, this is exactly the time period that the verse is referring to. They will be so overjoyed that it will be like the moon became as bright as the sun and the sun itself became seven times brighter. This is not saying that the sun will become seven times brighter literally.
Underline: Exactly. It's symbolic for the joy of the saints..https://www.google.com/#q=similes+using+the+word+like

Isa 30:26 The moon will shine like the sun, and the sunlight will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven full days, when the Lord binds up the bruises of his people and heals the wounds he inflicted.
 

keras

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Dcopymope said:
The scripture he cites as his evidence for this such as Isaiah 30:26 isn't even referring to the judgement. This seems to be more figure of speech for how joyful the saints will be with the establishment of the new Jerusalem. In fact, taking all of chapter 30 in context, this is exactly the time period that the verse is referring to. They will be so overjoyed that it will be like the moon became as bright as the sun and the sun itself became seven times brighter. This is not saying that the sun will become seven times brighter literally.
If it is possible for a prophecy to be fulfilled literally, then we can expect that it will be.
You avoid mentioning Isaiah 30:27, 28 & 30, that definitively refer to Judgement and punishment.

But as verses 26b and 29 say; that terrible Day, will be the Day of our Redemption, as we march to the Mountain of the Lord, in Jerusalem.
Believing what the Bible actually says, is much better than fables and fanciful notions.
 

skypair

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You know, when you don't believe in the biblical pretrib, premil rapture, scripture becomes nonsense and confusion — everyone starts seeing stuff that isn't there .. or seeing stuff that belongs to Israel as belonging to them.

I think I will bid a sad, "Adieu" to this prophecy board. Swine don't think much of pearls, do they?

skypair
 

keras

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I would be very happy to believe in a rapture to heaven, if only I could find a scripture saying that is what God will do for His people.
But what I do find, is prophesies about God's holy people inhabiting the holy Land, where they will be his witnesses and a light to the nations, Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8, as God always intended for His righteous people.

There is only ONE people of God, John10:16, there is no plan to redeem the Jewish nation as a whole, only a remnant will be saved.
We Christians ARE the Israel of God and the inheritors of the promises; look forward to the great Day of our restoration!
 

Heb 13:8

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skypair said:
You know, when you don't believe in the biblical pretrib, premil rapture, scripture becomes nonsense and confusion — everyone starts seeing stuff that isn't there .. or seeing stuff that belongs to Israel as belonging to them.

I think I will bid a sad, "Adieu" to this prophecy board. Swine don't think much of pearls, do they?

skypair
Pre-trib is false. Rapture will occur after the great tribulation Matt 24:29-31. You've been deceived by Satan.

keras said:
I would be very happy to believe in a rapture to heaven, if only I could find a scripture saying that is what God will do for His people.
But what I do find, is prophesies about God's holy people inhabiting the holy Land, where they will be his witnesses and a light to the nations, Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8, as God always intended for His righteous people.

There is only ONE people of God, John10:16, there is no plan to redeem the Jewish nation as a whole, only a remnant will be saved.
We Christians ARE the Israel of God and the inheritors of the promises; look forward to the great Day of our restoration!
Fancy of you to keep ignoring my posts. The blind see what they wanna see.
 

keras

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Heb 13:8 said:
Pre-trib is false. Rapture will occur after the great tribulation Matt 24:29-31. You've been deceived by Satan.


Fancy of you to keep ignoring my posts. The blind see what they wanna see.
After the Great Trib, Jesus will Return to earth. He sends out His angels to gather those who remain alive, to be with Him during His Millennium reign on earth.
Any other belief than this is false teaching.

And the deluded stay in their delusions. 2 Thess 2:11
 

Dcopymope

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keras said:
If it is possible for a prophecy to be fulfilled literally, then we can expect that it will be.
You avoid mentioning Isaiah 30:27, 28 & 30, that definitively refer to Judgement and punishment.

But as verses 26b and 29 say; that terrible Day, will be the Day of our Redemption, as we march to the Mountain of the Lord, in Jerusalem.
Believing what the Bible actually says, is much better than fables and fanciful notions.
I avoid mentioning the verses beyond 26 because they have nothing to do with the subject at hand. You claimed verse 26 had something to do with God burning earth to a crisp using the sun, and I showed the contrary. Verses 18-26 have to do with the establishment of New Jerusalem and the joy of the saints thereof.
 

n2thelight

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Many Bible prophesies say the Lord will send fire to destroy His enemies. It's mentioned in Psalm 83, Peter says it. 2 Peter 3:7 and Isaiah 30:26-30 states that the sun will shine 7 times brighter., something that can only be explained by a Coronal Mass Ejection. Confirmed by Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 66:15-16 and Psalm 50:1-3 +

The fire is of God,as He is(can be)a consuming fire,

Hebrews 12:29 "For our God is a consuming fire."

This "consuming fire" is "God's glory present". God's "consuming fire" is the Holy Spirit that warms your heart, and protects you when the enemy comes against you. His Spirit will protect you exactly as God protected Daniel when he was in the Lion's den, or the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace. This consuming fire was symbolic, or to signify that God will protect His own. So to those that love Him this, consuming fire is our protection, but to those who are against Christ it will consume them and cause them to perish.
 

Heb 13:8

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keras said:
After the Great Trib, Jesus will Return to earth. He sends out His angels to gather those who remain alive, to be with Him during His Millennium reign on earth.
Any other belief than this is false teaching.

And the deluded stay in their delusions. 2 Thess 2:11
And the great trib will be cut short Matt 24:22, not at the end of the 70th week. You didn't answer my questions in post 81 because you have none. Delusions lol. oh yea there's delusions all right. :rolleyes:
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Talk about taking things out of context:

2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

The delusion is NOT believing in Heaven or the Rapture but worshiping the talking image abomination of the anti-Christ.

The Great Tribulation is abruptly cut short (using an agricultural term for "docking" an animal's tail) after the midpoint.
Then comes God's Wrath.

In the book of Revelation:
  • After the sixth Seal Day of the Lord with the arrival in Heaven of the Great Multitude - are the seven Trumpets with their desolations.
  • In the parallel account of the Harvest in ch 14 - after the Harvest is the fire and blood of the first Trumpet of God's Wrath sounded by an Angel. This account then details the third Woe, previously not revealed in the broad overview of the Seals and the Scroll - as the seven Bowl, or Vial Judgments - which come last, being "poured out" as Daniel 9:27 says.

The earth is not going to be fit for human habitation: the desolations God has decreed will kill off nearly all human life.
The survivors - and that is how the Bible terms them in the OT - not the NT - will gather on Mount Zion.

The reason this aftermath is only in the OT is that it is directed at the Jews - who "miss" Jesus as is poetically prophesied in SOS 5.
We have no involvement in the bulk of the second half of the one 'seven' - we're removed from the field of this world - Mt 13:24-30 ~ "but gather the wheat into my barn."'

keras' stooping to name calling from 2Th 2:11 demonstrates his utter lack of context and understanding.
You absolutely have to check everything he says because he is on his own mission - he does not reflect Scripture, but re-writes it.
 

inchrist

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
we're removed from the field of this world - Mt 13:24-30 ~ "but gather the wheat into my barn."'
.
Heres your barn

The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord
 
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keras

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John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from heaven.
John 17:15 ...I pray Father, you keep them from the evil one....
John 7:34...where I go you cannot come....
John 8:21-23....I am not of this world, you cannot go where I go....
Revelation 5:10....the saints will reign on earth....
ALL Words of Jesus that totally, utterly and completely refute the false and totally un biblical rapture theory.

John 14:1-3 is not talking about a rapture removal to heaven. Jesus says: I will come back.... from heaven to earth and then: we will always be with Him.
Realize this, you raptureists, a removal to heaven was never part of God's plan for ancient Israel and it isn't His plan now.
Do you say the Lord's prayer? ......Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven......Who is tasked to carry out His will on earth? Us Christians, that's who and hoping to be removed when things get tough is nothing short of escapism and cowardice.

I know these hard facts will cause upset for everyone who has been taught they will be raptured to heaven. But I have to do it, to shock you into finding out for yourselves what God really does want, rather than just believing what someone has told you.
The first belief to get out of your minds, is the Two People, Two Promises. There is only ONE people of God. Ephesians 4:4-6 Those righteous Christian people will go to live in all of the Holy Land soon after all that area is de-populated by the Lord's Day of wrath. Ezekiel 34:11-31 describes it best.
That will be like heaven, as those true believers, who have proved their faith during the Day of cloud and darkness, live there and experience the amazing blessings of God to His people.
 

Heb 13:8

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Heb 13:8 said:
Why not just use the word "epairó" since we'll already have our resurrected bodies. Why did Paul use harpazo. Why be rescued when we don't need to. Why "obtain by robbery" when there's nothing to steal.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up (epairó) before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

epairó: to lift up
Original Word: ἐπαίρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epairó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ahee'-ro)
Short Definition: I raise, lift up
Definition: I raise, lift up.

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

τινα ἐκ πυρός, proverbial, to rescue from the danger of destruction, Jude 1:23 (Amos 4:11; Zechariah 3:2); τινα,
 

keras

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So; where does that prove a rapture removal to heaven?
Many prophesies say all who call out to the Lord on His Day of wrath, will be rescued by His protection, in the same way as the 3 men in the furnace were. Isaiah 43:2

A rapture to heaven won't happen, Jesus refutes it and we have work to do here. Get over it and understand the truth of God's plans for His people.
 

keras

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[SIZE=medium]All Israel shall be saved.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Romans 11:26-27, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The quotation Paul uses is from Isaiah 59:20 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]When the Bible says that [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]ALL ISRAEL shall be saved[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] in Romans 11:26-27, it refers to only a remnant of the Jewish people and all true Christians, now the Israel of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The message to the individual is that he or she must “turn from transgression” to the Lord. There will be a remnant that will turn to him. All of them will be saved. He speaks of the saved remnant as the nation Israel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Are the Jews still God's people? Yes, but only those who are both ethnic and spiritual Jews. Saved Gentiles have also been grafted into the tree and are now heirs of the promises of God to Israel. Galatians 3:26-29 The apostle Paul was a remnant Jew...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Romans 11:1, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The tribes of Judah and Benjamin were the only two tribes not to secede from Israel after Solomon's death. Paul was a pure Israelite. Paul says that it's all by God's grace... Romans 11:5 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In other words, by grace through faith, plus or minus nothing, in the Lord Jesus Christ. Only through faith in Jesus can anyone be a child of God. [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Confirmed by:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Galatians 3:26-29, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]And if you are Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Clearly, Galatians 3:26-29 states that Jews cannot be Abraham's spiritual seed, nor are they heirs of the promises of God made to Israel in the Bible. The Bible is very plain on this subject that only born-again Christian believers of any ethnicity are heirs of the promises of God. [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]True, righteous Christians are God's people. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. So we can divide all humanity into one of two groups: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Every godless unbeliever including the non-Christian Jews and all Christian believers, Jews and Gentiles. [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]God never blesses wicked evildoers. When the Jews rejected Jesus, God gave them into the hands of their enemies, as in 70 AD. Then, for continuing [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]in their disbelief; the many pogroms and the Holocaust. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Romans 11:1-2 and 19-23, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I say then, Has God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away his people which he foreknew…..You may say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and we Christians[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]stand by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]God spared not the natural branches[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, blessing, so keep your faith: otherwise you also shalt be cut off. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]And they also, if they change their ways, shall be grafted back in: for God is able to graft them in again.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]This Scripture plainly teaches that ONLY Jews who believe the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will be grafted back into the tree as God's people. Confirmed by Jeremiah 12:14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]God cut off Judah in 586 BC for their continuous and stiffnecked rebellion against His Word, even killing the prophets. God still loves His people, His true people who obey Him, and any Jew can be grafted back into the tree, but all Christ-rejecting Jews are NOT GOD'S PEOPLE. The Parable of the Vineyard shows how the ethnic Jewish people have lost their status. Matthew 21:33-46[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Less than 2% of the Jews living in Israel today profess to be a Christian. Only a fool thinks that God loves the apostate, atheistic, gay pride, Christ rejecting Jews. These are NOT God's people.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So only saved Jews are part of God's people, but most are saved Gentiles. Only believers in Jesus Christ can claim to be heirs of the promises of God to Israel. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Galatians 3:29 proclaims this truth...[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]And if you be Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [/SIZE]
 
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