All Israel will be saved

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Marcus O'Reillius

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n2thelight said:
It's not replacement,the Church has always been Israel....
Ah, no.

We were considered a sect of Judaism before some Jewish men from Cyrus and Cyrene went to Antioch - Acts 11:20-21.
Christians weren't even distinguished from their Jewish brethren even then; they were just named differently.
The real schism didn't come until much later to escape persecution with the First and Second Jewish Revolts.

Eventually, Christianity would even come to persecute the Jews themselves.
I consider this just one manifestation from many such occurrences of the fallen angel Satan's outrage at God's Chosen people: the Jews as per Revelation 12:13.

At that time of Acts 11, Paul was still Saul, and he was only preaching in the Synagogues.
By the time Paul becomes Paul and writes the book or Romans - in captivity after his travels and travails - only then does he make the distinction between natural Israel and the Church as the "Spiritual" Israel always held out as God's desire for his brethren: natural Israel.
Paul warns the Church not to eschew the Jews who even persecuted Christians at that time; that the Jews too could and would be saved.

There are two people today.
We will be united in Christ.
The Jews "miss" Jesus at His Return.
But God will save a Remnant through the desolations He has decreed.
And the sun will shine brightly when He heals the wounds He has inflicted upon them - Isaiah 30:26.
And the Jews and other nations - the meek - will come to know the Messiah King, Jesus, in the Millennium.

And so both will be united in Christ.
That's Progressive Dispensationalism and it's in the Bible.
Reading the Church for Israel every time the word is used in prophecy is Replacement theology, and it's not valid.
 

keras

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So, Marcus, in order to maintain your belief in a rapture to heaven of the Church, something that is not actually prophesied to happen, you must contradict Jesus and the Apostles.

Remember that God said to Elijah that He had 7000 who had not bent their knee to Baal? It was the same in Jesus' time, just a small proportion of righteous people faithful to God. That small number went out and the Church is the result. Sadly, it is again, only a small proportion within the established Church, that are truly faithful. They are and have always been the true chosen ones, the Israel of God.

Reading you #162, I shake my head at how clueless you are about what God has planned for the end times. Its a shame that so many Christians are like you, but I can only think that God wants it to be that way and when things really happen, the test will be: will you stand firm or renounce your faith?

Here's a verse for rapture believers to ponder on: Hebrews 12:8 If you avoid God's discipline, in which all must share, then you must be illegitimate and not true sons.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
So, Marcus, in order to maintain your belief in a rapture to heaven of the Church, something that is not actually prophesied to happen, you must contradict Jesus and the Apostles.
Jesus said:
“If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

And Jesus said:
And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

And the Apostle Paul wrote:
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

​And Jesus revealed to the Apostle John:
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

So don't tell me I go against Jesus and the Apostles when He and they said we would be raptured to Heaven!
​You're the one that still can't figure out Isaiah 30:26 isn't about the sun exploding.
 

keras

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Typical response from a 'stuck in the mud' rapture believer! NONE OF THOSE QUOTES SAY ANYONE GOES TO HEAVEN!

This thread seems to be fairly evenly divided between those who believe in a rapture removal to heaven, before any dramatic world disasters and those who do not believe in a rapture.
I do not believe that God has planned to take His people to heaven at any time and I have written many posts and articles proving it. They are all on my free logostelos website.
As a onetime rapture believer myself, I can sympathize with people who have been taught that theory; often as the only end times event for us Christians to expect. Any change in their beliefs means alienation from their church and most often from friends and family as well. A very hard call to make!
Also it means having to admit they have been deceived and need to repent, especially if they have taught a rapture to others.

What is evident to me, is that no amount of scriptural proof against a rapture can change the minds of those locked into the rapture belief.
The fact that it isn’t actually prophesied anywhere in the Bible, the fact that many prophesies do make clear what God does plan for His people, makes no difference.
God tells us why this is: Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20
Only by the power of the Holy Spirit, can people be released from their beliefs in false teachings.

Paul does say that we Christians should not be in the dark about God’s plans for us, however it seems that only a few will understand the truth. Daniel 12:10b
So, if the rapture is for real, then Daniels prophecy is wrong?????
 

n2thelight

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Ah, no.

We were considered a sect of Judaism before some Jewish men from Cyrus and Cyrene went to Antioch - Acts 11:20-21.
Christians weren't even distinguished from their Jewish brethren even then; they were just named differently.
The real schism didn't come until much later to escape persecution with the First and Second Jewish Revolts.

Eventually, Christianity would even come to persecute the Jews themselves.
I consider this just one manifestation from many such occurrences of the fallen angel Satan's outrage at God's Chosen people: the Jews as per Revelation 12:13.

At that time of Acts 11, Paul was still Saul, and he was only preaching in the Synagogues.
By the time Paul becomes Paul and writes the book or Romans - in captivity after his travels and travails - only then does he make the distinction between natural Israel and the Church as the "Spiritual" Israel always held out as God's desire for his brethren: natural Israel.
Paul warns the Church not to eschew the Jews who even persecuted Christians at that time; that the Jews too could and would be saved.

There are two people today.
We will be united in Christ.
The Jews "miss" Jesus at His Return.
But God will save a Remnant through the desolations He has decreed.
And the sun will shine brightly when He heals the wounds He has inflicted upon them - Isaiah 30:26.
And the Jews and other nations - the meek - will come to know the Messiah King, Jesus, in the Millennium.

And so both will be united in Christ.
That's Progressive Dispensationalism and it's in the Bible.
Reading the Church for Israel every time the word is used in prophecy is Replacement theology, and it's not valid.

Therein lies your problem,you think Israel consists of only Jew's,when they only make up two tribes
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
it means having to admit they have been deceived and need to repent, especially if they have taught a rapture to others.
1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Unless you're on a mission to destroy, then you have to repent and follow the blind writer of Bible study guides.
I'll let you go against God and see how that works out for you.

The Bible never says we are taken to Jerusalem after we meet the Lord in the air either.
But it does say a Great Multitude show up in Heaven after the Day of the Lord's precursor signs in the sun, moon, and stars.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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n2thelight said:
Therein lies your problem,you think Israel consists of only Jew's,when they only make up two tribes
Oh, I got bigger problems than that.

Paul uses "Jews" in a generic sense too. He is not talking only about Judah.
So, if you want to get ultra-literal, you're going to get lost in words.
 

keras

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Unless you're on a mission to destroy, then you have to repent and follow the blind writer of Bible study guides.
I'll let you go against God and see how that works out for you.

The Bible never says we are taken to Jerusalem after we meet the Lord in the air either.
But it does say a Great Multitude show up in Heaven after the Day of the Lord's precursor signs in the sun, moon, and stars.
Errors in the above post:
1/ The prophecy in 1 Thess is at the Return of Jesus to the earth.
2/ We are encouraged by the fact He will Return and gather us.
3/ My mission is to promote the truth of the Prophetic Word.
4/ People who believe false teachings at the ones going against God.
5/ The Bible says Jesus Returns to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:3
6/ The great multitude are on earth. Never is heaven mentioned as a destination for living people. It is the souls of the martyrs in Rev 19:1-2, proved by fact they praise God for taking vengeance for their blood.
 

n2thelight

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Oh, I got bigger problems than that.

Paul uses "Jews" in a generic sense too. He is not talking only about Judah.
So, if you want to get ultra-literal, you're going to get lost in words.
Until you realize that the Christian nations make up Israel,your problems will stay big...
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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n2thelight said:
Until you realize that the Christian nations make up Israel,your problems will stay big...
No. Israel is Israel.
​And it is an exception to the rule where a nation has been lifted up from the ash heap of history to fulfill prophecy still to come.
America, Russia, and the European Union will all unite into the fourth terrible beast, the Kingdom of the North - literally the northern half of the northern hemisphere - in my opinion.

​And our problems are not conflicting eschatological views, nor the people who spout all kinds of inane theories, but against evil.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. ~ Eph 6:12.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
1/ The prophecy in 1 Thess is at the Return of Jesus to the earth.
No, it is of the Rapture - which you say isn't in the Bible.
​Jesus' return, IAW with Acts 1:11 is demonstrated in Revelation 14:1 as being on the earth BEFORE the gathering Harvest from the clouds in Rev 14:14-16.


keras said:
2/ We are encouraged by the fact He will Return and gather us.
And you tell people 1Co 15:51-52 and 1Th 4:17 aren't related and that 1Th 4:17 isn't the Rapture - the exchange of a mortal body for an immortal body.



keras said:
3/ My mission is to promote the truth of the Prophetic Word.
You deceive yourself in grandiosity. If you would actively seek the truth, you would be wise. However, purporting to know the truth, you set yourself up as a god. Yet, you are not able to be sharpened, and hold onto that which is false - like saying no person can go to Heaven at all - when the Bible says we lack the ability to get there on our own power - and saying God will have the sun explode and burn a third of the earth - on a day when He heals the wounds He has inflicted!

Before you attempt to correct me, correct yourself.

keras said:
4/ People who believe false teachings at the ones going against God.
Teaching to expect an out-of-body experience for the few Elect who remain and are still alive after the Great Tribulation - who see Jesus coming with the multitude of souls in immortal bodies from Paradise on the clouds - is not to against God.

We only go against you. And you are not God.


keras said:
5/ The Bible says Jesus Returns to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:3
Again, you misrepresent the Bible.

Zec 14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

It doesn't say Jesus returns TO Jerusalem, as much as He fights against those arrayed before it - the army of the Kingdom of the North.
​Along with Joel 2 and Ezekiel 9, we can also say that Jesus and His Army, the 144,000 also eliminate a good portion of the Jews.

The Day of the Lord is not a time of celebration for the natural nation of Israel.

Jesus' Return is pictured in the following verse, which like many of the visions of Isaiah, do not come in exact chronological order as written; the books of the Prophets do not employ linear narrative construction; time periods are mixed up in them, and idioms of speech like, "in that day..." are statement of fact that a day will come when this happens - not that it happens all on the same literal "day".

Zec 14:4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

When we compare Zec 14:4 with Acts 1:11 and Rev 14:1 - we can conclude that Jesus' actual Return will touchdown first on the Mount of Olives, forever changing it.
​Then the 144,000 are "mustered".
​While the Angels "seal" the 144,000, then Jesus sounds the Last Trumpet in Paradise, a spiritual realm.
​Then Jesus comes WITH those Saints He has resurrected (1Th 3:13) and gathers the remaining Elect on the earth from the clouds. (1Th 4:16-17; Mt 24:31; Rev 14:14-16) THIS IS THE RAPTURE.
​Then the Great Multitude show up IN HEAVEN (Rev 7:9-17)
Then, the final seal of the Scroll is broken and the Wrath of God goes forth with the first Trumpet (Rev 8:1; Rev 14:17-20).
THEN Jesus goes forth with His Army - the 144,000 who have been sealed - and they fight the occupying army of the North, and invade the city!
​Blood will flow.
It's no place you want to be.


keras said:
6/ The great multitude are on earth.
No they're not. This is stupid. We've been over and over this before. God's Throne does not move from Rev chapter 4 until chapter 7.



keras said:
Never is heaven mentioned as a destination for living people.
While flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven - Enoch, Elijah, Ezekiel, and John all go there in the flesh.

Secondly, John 3:13 does not say people CANNOT go to Heaven - see the four above who were taken there by God - it says WE are not able to go on our own!
​It's called the Greek active voice - what keras says it means is not true.

Furthermore - we go there as "Living" people, because our God is the God of the "Living".
​We go there not as living persons in our sinful flesh and blood bodies - we go there in our new immortal, and imperishable bodies.



keras said:
It is the souls of the martyrs in Rev 19:1-2, proved by fact they praise God for taking vengeance for their blood.
Nope. John says he hears a Great Multitude. You are misinterpreting the Bible saying it's the souls of the Martyrs crying in 19:1-2.

The martyrs are not "made alive" (given new immortal and imperishable bodies) until AFTER the Two Witnesses complete their number - and that does not happen until AFTER the final battle of the one 'seven' at Armageddon.

That's the proof.
 

keras

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Well Marcus, we disagree on quite a lot, but as you are somewhat less of a weirdo than some other people here, excepting for the nasty way you denigrate people: that is to your discredit, we could discuss some issues:
1/ 1 Thess 4:15-17 is not a rapture to heaven. It is a gathering to where Jesus is: on earth. You correctly say Jesus is seen on earth before His glorious Return. 2 Thess 1:10

2/ We are encouraged by the fact Jesus will Return. As there is still death during the Millennium, Isaiah 65:20, eternal life is not attained until after the Mill. Rev 21:4

3/ I am not inerrant and have made mistakes, however, when I promote what the Prophets actually wrote, that is the truth. If you think the sun at seven times brighter, would be inconsequential, more fool you.

4/ What you say here is correct, those Christians who remain will experience a supernatural transportation to Jerusalem from wherever they are around the world.

5/ There is a time gap of 1260 days between Zech 14:1-2 and Zech 14:3 + Verses 1-2 describe the attack and conquest of the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy Land, by the Anti-Christ. He breaks their 7 year peace treaty at the mid point. Daniel 9:27 After those 1260 days, Jesus Returns and destroys the AC's army and chains him up. Rev 19:11-21
The 144.000 were sealed years before, before the G.T. They go out as missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Proved by Isaiah 66:19 They may be involved, but not as you describe.

6/ Rev 7 is a chapter that describes events entirely on earth. Heaven is NEVER mentioned. You have a childish concept of heaven, it is a Spiritual place; everywhere and anywhere.

7/ What you say here is just wishful thinking, never is such a thing prophesied to happen. We ARE told what our task is on earth, the place we were made to inhabit; we are Gods witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, and we Christians are meant to be the Light for the nations. Isaiah 49:8. Revelation 5:9-10 Jesus said: no one goes to heaven.....John 3:13, Jesus said: where I go you cannot come...John 7:34, Jesus prayed: keep them from the evil one...{not take them away] John 17:15, Jesus revealed: we are priests and will serve Him on earth....Rev 5:10

8/ In Rev 19:1-2, the martyrs are not yet raised into their resurrected bodies. That happens after Jesus Returns, Rev 20:4 However they are allowed to cry out as we see in Rev 6:9-11. It is the souls of all who were killed by the Great Whore and they thank God for His destruction of the Babylon described in Rev 18:1-24. Verse 24 says the blood of the prophets and of God's people were found in her. Remember there were no chapter breaks in the original, Rev 19 is just a continuation of the story.

Marcus, your [and millions of other deceived Christians] 'nice' belief of being taken to heaven, away from anything bad on earth, will never happen. It just isn't God's Plan to do that.
Better to read and understand the truth before too late. And the truth of God's plans for His people are amazing, He promises great things for us!
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
Well Marcus, we disagree on quite a lot, but as you are somewhat less of a weirdo than some other people here, excepting for the nasty way you denigrate people: that is to your discredit, we could discuss some issues:
The nasty way in which you denigrate me with insults is exactly the reason I wish no discussion with you.

I am wary of people who:
  1. ​say something is "clear"
  2. say that they have been told by the Holy Spirit - xyz.
  3. say that they have the truth.
As we are to walk humbly with our God, and I love the Father's Plan as much as I can understand it; I know that you don't know God's Plan based on what you put out here and there.
 

keras

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Sounds like a cop out to me!
Plainly, you have no response to the 8 points that I refuted you on. I present Bible truths, what the prophets actually wrote. 20 scriptures quoted in #173.
 

keras

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[SIZE=11pt]Zion, the Promised Land[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 49:14-23 [/SIZE] Zion says: The Lord has forsaken me. The Lord says: Can a woman forget her child? I shall never forget you. I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands. Your dwellings are always before My eyes.
[SIZE=11pt]Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart.[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away.[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say: This place is too small for us.[/SIZE] Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?
[SIZE=11pt]The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land.[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Kings will be your sponsors and great people will serve and honour you. [/SIZE]You will know that I am the Lord, none who trust in Me will be disappointed.
[SIZE=11pt]Zion:[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] The holy Land, forsaken and desolate, Jeremiah 22:6-7, Hosea 4:3, that is how it will be after the next prophesied event: The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, an explosion of the sun, directed at the Middle East that will clear and cleanse the entire area. Currently most of the holy Land is occupied by atheists or false religion worshippers. The Jews will be judged, Zechariah 13:7-9, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]‘the enemies depart, they are now far away’[/SIZE]: [SIZE=11pt]Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11 tell us how the surrounding nations and entities all hate Israel and want to ‘wipe them off the map’. Those attackers will all be killed, some by their own weapons; Psalms 7:12-16, and the rest of the inhabitants will flee. Jeremiah 49:4-5 & 35-37[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]Your people will hasten back’[SIZE=11pt]:[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] A part of Judah has returned, but very few are true believers and they all face judgement. A remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:13 All true Christians are now the Lord’s people: Romans 9:24-26, Psalms 24:3-5, Malachi 3:16-17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]The Lord’s people, all those who put their trust in Him’: Christians from every race, nation and language, will be gathered and transported to all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 66:18b-20, Psalms 107, Jer. 23:3-4, Zechariah 9:16 On that Day their God will save them, they will sparkle like jewels in the Land.
[SIZE=11pt] ‘The Promised Land’[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]: will be regenerated and become fruitful. Joel 2:21-24, Psalms 126:1-5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Ezekiel 36:8-12 [/SIZE]You, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of your people is near. Isaiah 51:3
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 35:1-10 [/SIZE]Let the desert be glad, let it flower and rejoice!...Be strong, My people, fear not: your God comes to save you with His vengeance and retribution. Then; understanding will be given to all who couldn’t see or comprehend the Prophetic Word.
[SIZE=11pt]A highway will appear and by that road, the Lord’s redeemed people will travel into their heritage. His holy people, set free will enter Zion with shouts of praise for their Redeemer. Gladness and joy will come upon them and suffering and sorrow will be gone.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Psalms 48:11-14[/SIZE] The hills of Zion rejoice, Judah’s cities are glad. Walk about the holy Land, count the towers. Note the fortifications and buildings, so that you can tell about them to the coming generations. For this God is our God, our guide and protector, now and forever.
[SIZE=11pt]Psalms 69:35-36[/SIZE] For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah. The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love His Name will dwell there.
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 55:11-13 [/SIZE]You will go out with joy and be led forth in peace....the Land will rejoice at your coming. [SIZE=11pt]Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]That all this happens before the Return of Jesus in His glory, is made clear by Isaiah 49:23, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]you will know that I am the Lord’’. First, His people will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Those who serve the Lord will inherit the Land. All that is prophesied will happen as they prepare for the eventual Millennial reign of Jesus.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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The funny thing is that no matter the response, you're not going to change.

I didn't even bother reading it. It might surprise you that people do not hang on every word you say.
​I rebutted your "error" list and I still stand by it.

Let me see here now that I did read it.

Point #2. We die in keras' Heaven on earth... gee, isn't that swell! No - we are given immortal and imperishable bodies at the Last Trumpet as Paul said in 1Co 15:50-52.

Point #3. You actually put out a post months ago where you re-wrote what Isaiah wrote!
- Secondly, you often, still, say a verse says one thing - which you say is "the truth" and when examined - it doesn't say that at all, or says something quite opposite.

Point #4. After agreeing with me, you make the ludicrous statement that we go to Jerusalem... when it's being invaded... and half a dozen of God's soldiers kill those who did not mourn when the abomination was in the Temple... and blood overflows in all the land about it. Nice... Not. Your fanciful imagination again. Whereas you deny the Heavenly scene in Rev 7, as being exactly the same as presented in chapters 4 and 5 - you insist upon something which is not in the Bible - unless you use OT verses for natural Israel and substitute the Church into that. You will not find a NT verse which says we go to the earthly Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord.

Point #5. Why not 337 days? So you say, and it is? Not quite. Try again. Anyone can make up that kind of stuff.
- Nope. The Day of the Lord comes after the shortened Great Tribulation - not at the end of the one 'seven'. The time between verses 2 & 3 is only as long as the shortened Great Tribulation is - and Jesus said no one knows that Day will come - not even He knows when it will come. And especially - you don't know when it will come either; you're not God the Father.

Point #6. Nope. It's the same Heavenly scene as before. God the Father's Throne did not move to the earth. See? You're still stuck in your error. Childish? Yes, this inane, incessant back-and-forth is very childish.

Point #7. I'll repeat what I said, because it's still correct and you didn't address any part of it. You just keep on saying the same thing in return - so you get the same result every time.

While flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven - Enoch, Elijah, Ezekiel, and John all go there in the flesh.

Secondly, John 3:13 does not say people CANNOT go to Heaven - see the four above who were taken there by God - it says WE are not able to go on our own!
​It's called the Greek active voice - what keras says it means is not true.

Furthermore - we go there as "Living" people, because our God is the God of the "Living".

We go there not as living persons in our sinful flesh and blood bodies - we go there in our new immortal, and imperishable bodies.
Point #8. Again, you are unable to correct yourself. The Bible says a Great Multitude shout. The Martyrs are still beneath the floor. The Great Multitude, though, is right there.
 

keras

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Correct, I refuse to change from the truths of the Prophetic Word.

Your beliefs color all your thinking, so it is your end time beliefs that I question;
1/ Israel and the Church are separate.
You think that the current Jewish State of Israel are still the Israel of God. This idea conflicts with the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles. True Christians are the Israel of God. I could post lots of scriptural proofs, but the One Christian people of God, is preached throughout entire New Testament

2/ Christians go to heaven before the Great Tribulation.
So who are the 'holy people' in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7? Don't say they are Jews who have 'seen the light', because that doesn't happen until the Return of Jesus, as Zechariah 12 & 13 detail.

3/ The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster happens at the Return.
Only the armies attacking Jerusalem are destroyed at the Return, as per Zech 12. The Sixth Seal; the Great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, is prophesied over 100 times in the Bible, as affecting all the earth by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. It is the next prophesied event we can expect and it will set the scene for all that must follow, leading up to the glorious Return.

Marcus said: You will not find a NT verse which says we go to the earthly Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord. Romans 9:26...in the same place the Israelites were called 'not My people', there shall they [Christians; ref verse 24] be called the sons of the Living God.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
Your beliefs color all your thinking, so it is your end time beliefs that I question;
DUDE!

1. There is Israel. It is a country. It is inhabited by Jews.
​There is the Church. It is not a country. It is made up of many people.

It's your beliefs, which you tell yourself are true, which allows you to take everything meant for the Jews, all twelve tribes, and wrongly substitute the Church in for what God will do with His chosen people.
​You preach replacement theology. That is not an accepted school of thought by any scholar.
​______________________________

2. NO - NO - NO.
How in the world can you tell me my eschatology is wrong when you get it wrong! I am not Pre-Trib!
The Rapture happens on the Day of the Lord - when the sun/moon/star sign abruptly ends the Great Tribulation. With the falling stars, comes the Sign of the Son of Man. Thus the sun/moon/star event happens BEFORE the Day of the Lord. Once Jesus comes again, one of the many things He will do is gather up His Elect from the clouds from all over the earth. This is the Rapture!
______________________________

3. The Sixth Seal does not hold any of the desolations that God has decreed.
​That is entirely a figment of your imagination.
​The wicked only say what they've heard will happen to them by the 3 Angels of Rev 14 who precede the Rapture.
​Instead of wasting them at that particular moment when He comes, Jesus instead STEALS the most valuable thing on this earth: US, who are alive and remain (after the Great Tribulation).
______________________________

And DUDE!
Romans 9:26 does NOT say WE go to Jerusalem with the Rapture when Paul is quoting Hosea!
 

keras

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1/ Israel is a country, just as New Zealand is a country, etc. None of the nations are God's people because after Jesus came, ethnicity counted for nothing. Faith in God and acceptance of Jesus atoning sacrifice are the only criteria to be part of God's people.

2/ Pre, mid or post trib rapture to heaven, all are false teaching. The gathering at Jesus Return is to where He is; in Jerusalem.

3/ The Sixth Seal IS a dramatic cosmic and earthly event. And it will happen in the order given in Revelation.
Jesus steals the Church? What rubbish. We aren't needed in heaven, but we have work to do on earth.
Read #176, that prophecy in Isaiah 49:14-22 says; v20 Thy children which thou [the holy Land] shall have after thou have lost the others.... Christians of every race will re-inhabit the Land after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it by the Sixth Seal devastation. Deut 32:43 It is undeniable that the Jews will be judged and only a Messianic remnant will join the Christians for the period before the Return. Proved by God's holy people being present when the Anti-Christ breaks his treaty with them. Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

Marcus, your entire end times beliefs are wrong, like most Christians, you are 'in the dark' about what God will do.