All Israel will be saved

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Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
Marcus, your entire end times beliefs are wrong, like most Christians, you are 'in the dark' about what God will do.
Let's make this a personal attack - because nothing demonstrates the truthfulness of somebody's argument by making an ad hominem attack. ~ Not!

I always like it when someone just says - 'you're wrong!' But can't give any specific error that isn't based on their interpretation of prophecy.

And I suppose I should like being in the dark, because according to keras here, if the sun shines brightly - we're all gonna burn ~ on a day when God heals those whom He has inflicted.
 

keras

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I have given proof in spades of your wrong ideas about what God has planned for us during the end times.
The rapture to heaven false teaching, that you cannot provide scriptural proof for and I have shown to be impossible.

The Day the Lord sends fire; Amos 1, Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7, will be a surprise that will shock the world. When it happens, and be sure; it will, at least I can say: I did warn you.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
The rapture to heaven false teaching, that you cannot provide scriptural proof for and I have shown to be impossible.
The delusion is strong with this one.
You are not the arbiter of Scriptural "proof".
This is really tiring...
 

keras

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
The delusion is strong with this one.
You are not the arbiter of Scriptural "proof".
This is really tiring...
Getting tired or run out of ways to make scripture mean what you want it to?

Scripture and prophecy written in plain words provide all the proofs needed to know what God has planned for His people.

[SIZE=medium]Obadiah 1:15-21 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the nations, they will be treated as they have treated others and their wrong actions will recoil upon themselves. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] then all the nations in turn will drink of it and be devastated by it. But in Jerusalem there will be a holy remnant, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium][Isaiah 6:11-13][/SIZE][SIZE=medium] the Lord’s people will be like a flame while the[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] House of Esau will be burnt up with no survivors. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]My [/SIZE][SIZE=medium][Christian][/SIZE][SIZE=medium] people will possess all of the holy Land that was given to Abraham and [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]those in Jerusalem who lead My people[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] will control the lands of the Edomites, but the Kingdom belongs to the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 28:21-22 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Lord will arise as He did at Mt Perazim and in the valley of Gibeon[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], and storm with rage to do what He must do, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]to perform His task – a strange and alien deed[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. But now, have done with all arrogance and pride or the Lord will increase His punishment, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]for destruction is decreed over the whole Land. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 10:18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 26:10-11 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Lord: Your hand is lifted high and Your enemies can’t see Your good will toward Your people. [Let them see and be ashamed.] [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The wicked are destroyed, they have never learnt justice, they are corrupt and blinded to Your Majesty and power.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Micah 4:11-12 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Now, many nations are massed against Israel,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] they say: Let Zion suffer outrage, we will [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]gloat over their demise[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. They are unaware of the Lord’s plans, for His purpose is to gather them like sheaves to the threshing floor. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Nahum 1:5 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The earth quakes before the Lord, the world and all who live in it are in tumult. Who can stand before His wrath? Who can resist the fury of[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] His anger, poured out as fire?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Lord will arise and storm with rage, as He did in ancient times’. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 30:23-24[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]His task, strange and alien’. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]We know God as a God of love, but also of justice and it is just to punish those who do not obey Him and who attack His Land. Isaiah 34:5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]destruction is decreed’. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The entire Middle East will be burnt and devastated. Ezekiel 30:3-5, Isaiah 17:1, Amos 1:3-15[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]‘fire reserved for the Lord’s enemies will consume them, His anger poured out as fire’. [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]A massive sunstrike CME will fulfill all these prophesied effects. Deut. 32:22, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]‘My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath’.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] This will be the third ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]swing of the sword’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Ezekiel 21:14, the final judgement of the Jewish people. Jeremiah 2:9, Eze.24:14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]‘now, many nations are massed against Israel’.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] This perfectly describes the situation today and they want to ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]gloat over her demise’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Psalm 83:1-18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]‘The House of Esau, burnt up –[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]no survivors’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Those attacking Israel will be totally wiped out. Zephaniah 3:8, Zephaniah 2:4-5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]‘those who lead My people’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Another proof that this all happens before the Return of Jesus. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11[/SIZE]
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Heb 13:8 said:
Matt 24 could be past, not future. Matt 24:3 says 'completion of the age", the age of law\
Which "age"?

The Church Age?
​The Rule of Man Age?
​The Millennium Age?
The Earth Age?

Sure! It could be past. Which would mean we've missed the Day of the Lord - just like the Thessalonians thought they had...
 

Heb 13:8

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Which "age"?

The Church Age?
​The Rule of Man Age?
​The Millennium Age?
The Earth Age?

Sure! It could be past. Which would mean we've missed the Day of the Lord - just like the Thessalonians thought they had...
That's what I thought too, but the Day of the Lord is not written in the Olivet. Matt 24:3 I think is referring to #3.

GOD'S PLAN OF THE AGES
1. The Pre-Adamic Age - http://www.godsplanf...om/preadamicage
2. The Adamic Age
3. The Age of Israel under the Old Mosaic Covenant of the Law
4. The Age of the Church under the New Covenant of Grace
5. The Millennial Age of the Kingdom of God
6. The Lake of Fire Judgement Age
7. The Eternal Age of the Kingdom of God
 

keras

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
And then takes what is meant for Israel and applies it to the Church.
Hate the idea of the Church, that is all true Christians being the Israel of God? Then you hate the Gospel delivered to us by Paul.


[SIZE=medium]Is Israel to be a Nation Forever? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 31:36-37[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]If those ordinances [the cosmic order.] depart from before me, then [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the seed of Israel[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. The Lord says: if heaven above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]That seems clear: a nation of Israel, as a group of people, is under the eternal blessing of God, and will always be a nation. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]But we should notice a few things.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]First,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] what does the text mean by nation? The Hebrew word is [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]goy[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], the plural of which, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]goyim[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], means the Gentiles. A nation must be a distinct people group with a government, or a people with a king.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Second,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] how did God keep this promise? Israel only became a nation at Mount Sinai in Exodus 19:5-6 God declared Israel to be a peculiar treasure and a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. Was Israel a nation when the 10 tribes were carried away into captivity; was Israel a nation when the remaining 2 tribes were carried into Babylon for 70 years; was Israel a nation when she existed from Nehemiah’s time to the time of the Roman empire, where no Davidic king ever sat on the earthly throne in Jerusalem; was Israel a nation when she was destroyed in AD 70; and was Israel a nation scattered among the nations from AD 70 to AD 1948; and is it the true Israel that is today a nation?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Third,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] the promise of [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 31:36-37[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] is made explicitly to the [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]seed[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] of Israel, and not to the corporate entity known as Israel. The seed of Israel includes all those, whether ethnic Jew or ethnic Gentile, who believe in Jesus Christ, and excludes all ethnic Jews and every godless human who rejects Jesus Christ. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Since the Jews who returned to Israel in 1948 were unbelievers, the New Covenant has nothing to do with them. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But what of the nationhood of Israel? In which people is this promise fulfilled if not in the unbelieving Jewish state in the Middle East, that has usurped the name of Israel? And is there a king to sit on David's throne? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The New Testament tells us that Jesus is the son or seed of David and that He sits on David's throne: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Luke 1:32-33[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]The Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David and he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Acts 2:30-36 teaches that Jesus is [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]already [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]sitting on the throne of David in heaven. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So it is therefore, only at the Return of Jesus, that the rightful King will physically reign over the nation of all Israel on earth. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In preparation for this,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] all of the Lord’s true Christian people, from every tribe, race, nation[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]and language[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Revelation 5:9-10: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the nation that ‘bears fruit’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], Matthew 21:43, will be gathered into the holy Land, soon after the Lord’s Day of wrath. Ezekiel 34:11-31 They elect for themselves a leader: Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11 and they are there when the Anti-Christ comes to Jerusalem and desecrates the Temple. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]1260 days later, Jesus will Return and destroy the AC’s army and chain him up, as all His faithful people are supernaturally brought to Him, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Matthew 24:31, shouting: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord.[/SIZE]
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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keras said:
Hate the idea of the Church, that is all true Christians being the Israel of God? Then you hate the Gospel delivered to us by Paul.
Elevating yourself to god-like status to know what I think and feel? Were what you said true, I might be insulted. But I do not grant you that power.

I just reject your imposition of Replacement theology onto end-time prophecy as well as your warped exegesis of what Paul was saying in explaining the "Israel" to his gentile audience.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Heb 13:8 said:
That's what I thought too, but the Day of the Lord is not written in the Olivet.
I disagree the Day of the Lord isn't written in the Olivet Discourse.

The citing of the precursor sun/moon/star event Mt 24:29, as well as providing the arrival of His Sign Mt 24:30 - demonstrates that the gathering of the Elect Mt 24:31 is the same blessed event Paul said would happen in 1Th 4:17 as coming on that Day of Christ as per 2Th 2:1 which is synonymous with the Day of the Lord, as Jesus is Lord.
 

Heb 13:8

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
I disagree the Day of the Lord isn't written in the Olivet Discourse.

The citing of the precursor sun/moon/star event Mt 24:29, as well as providing the arrival of His Sign Mt 24:30 - demonstrates that the gathering of the Elect Mt 24:31 is the same blessed event Paul said would happen in 1Th 4:17 as coming on that Day of Christ as per 2Th 2:1 which is synonymous with the Day of the Lord, as Jesus is Lord.
It's symbolism, Matthew said age in Matt 24:3 which is a period of time in his era. Check out here verse 29, 30, 31..http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Heb 13:8 said:
It's symbolism, Matthew said age in Matt 24:3 which is a period of time in his era. Check out here verse 29, 30, 31..http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/
I do not agree that it is symbolism.
I do not agree that the period of time was in His first Advent.
​I do not agree with your Preterist website on many levels, and that is just with a two-minute quick look.

Now while "this" generation is specific (Mt 24:33), and usually connoting the present company, Jesus also qualifies it as seeing "all these things".
What things?
  • ​The midpoint abomination.
  • The Great Tribulation.
  • ​and the Day of the Lord.
Now those things hadn't happened by the time Paul is writing to the Thessalonians in his first letters to the Church two decades later.
  • ​Paul does not say the Day of the Lord had come.
  • ​In fact, he tells them early in the fifth decade A.D. that it hadn't happened and won't happen until the Man of Lawlessness is revealed.
Nor did they happen six decades later, when John wrote Revelation.
  • ​That was after the First Jewish Revolt which is when the Temple is torn down.
  • And it was torn down by the Romans.
  • And John doesn't say the Day of the Lord had come either.
So this seeming internal inconsistency in the Bible sets us on one of two paths:

​1. Where we say everything Jesus spoke of happened during the Apostles' time.
2. Where we say everything Jesus spoke of will happen well within a generation's time.

It did not happen in the past, so we are left with the alternative: it will happen within a fairly short amount of time.
 

Heb 13:8

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
It did not happen in the past, so we are left with the alternative: it will happen within a fairly short amount of time.
Matt 24:3 - But Matthew said age, not ages. (completion of the age)..



aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.


King James Bible - And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Greek: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the completion of the age?

GOD'S PLAN OF THE AGES
1. The Pre-Adamic Age - http://www.godsplanf...om/preadamicage
2. The Adamic Age
3. The Age of Israel under the Old Mosaic Covenant of the Law
4. The Age of the Church under the New Covenant of Grace
5. The Millennial Age of the Kingdom of God
6. The Lake of Fire Judgement Age
7. The Eternal Age of the Kingdom of God
 

Heb 13:8

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Now while "this" generation is specific (Mt 24:33), and usually connoting the present company, Jesus also qualifies it as seeing "all these things".
What things?
  • ​The midpoint abomination.
  • The Great Tribulation.
  • ​and the Day of the Lord.
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Matthew 24:33
Messiah was saying that in the same manner, when they would see what He had predicted, the signs around Jerusalem, then they would know that its destruction is at hand.
Luke 21:28 says, “your redemption draweth nigh;” Luke 21:31 says, “So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.”

Your deliverance from the dangers that threaten the city approaches, and the kingdom of Elohim will be set up in the earth; or your everlasting redemption from sin and death will come at the day of judgment, and his eternal kingdom is to be established in the heavens.

John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, That are mentioned above, relating to the signs of the destruction of the temple and city, and the destruction itself, with all those several things that should directly take place upon it; this is an accommodation of the above parable, similitude, or comparison:
know that it is near, even at the doors; meaning, either that “he is near”, as the Ethiopic version reads it, the son of man is near, even at the doors; or as the Vulgate Latin renders it, “in the gates”, or “doors”, and so does Munster’s Hebrew Gospel; and signifies, that he was already come; for to be in the doors, or within the gates, is more than to be at the doors, or at the gates: and thus the fig tree putting forth its leaves, is a sign that summer is not only nigh, but is already come, even that part of it we call spring; for the Scripture divides the whole year only into two parts, summer and winter; so these calamities and desolations on the Jews, were a sign that the son of man was come, was in the gates, displaying his power and his glory: or the redemption and deliverance of the people of God was at hand, from the persecutions of the Jews; for till the destruction of Jerusalem, the persecutions of the Christians were chiefly from the Jews, or occasioned by them; but now, they being destroyed, the summer of deliverance was at hand: or else the kingdom of God, or a more enlarged state of the Gospel dispensation was near; the winter of the legal dispensation was over, the spring of the Gospel dispensation was come, through the preaching of John the Baptist, Christ and his apostles; and now the summer of it was at hand, through the general spread of it, all over the Gentile world. So the second coming of Christ, will be a summer of joy and comfort to the saints: Christ will appear most lovely and amiable to them, he will be glorified by them, and admired in them; great grace will be brought unto them, and great glory will be put upon them; they will then enjoy full redemption and salvation: the winter of sorrows, afflictions, and persecutions, and of coldness, darkness, and desertion, will be over; the sun shall no more go down, nor the moon withdraw itself, but the Lord will be the everlasting light of his people.
 

Heb 13:8

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
​The midpoint abomination.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Matthew 24:15
Daniel 9:26-27 foretold that the ‘people of the prince‘, that is the pagan Roman army of Prince Titus, who were an abomination to the Jews; would come and desolate the city and temple; just as Messiah had just proclaimed.

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. …and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Luke 21:20 defined what the abomination of desolation was, the Roman army surrounding the holy city of Jerusalem; to desolate the temple, city and Jews.

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

The sign occurred in 66 A.D., when the first division of the Roman army led by Cestius surrounded the city, built ramps up the walls, and was about to take it captive.

Then for no reason (other than the hand of Elohim), Jewish historian Josephus documents that they suddenly left.

The Early Church leaders obviously had seen the sign and once the Roman army was gone, they fled to the Mountains of Pella.

The Jews were emboldened by the Roman army leaving, believing that God had intervened and protected them; so they stayed, much to their demise.

The next division of Roman army led by Titus surrounded the city, and stayed there until the temple was desolated, and 1.1. million Jews lay dead in and around Jerusalem.
Click here for a study that explains the Abomination of Desolation in more detail.
Luke 21:22 tells us why the Roman army would surround the Holy city of Jerusalem.

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Read the books of Isaiah and Jeremiah to see the harsh words that the Father proclaimed against the wicked and idolatrous Jews.

Read Matthew 23 to see what Messiah said about the Jewish leaders, proclaiming that they were serpents and vipers, who were guilty of shedding the prophets blood.
 

Heb 13:8

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
The Great Tribulation.
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:21
Jewish historian Josephus documented the time of great tribulation from 66-70 A.D., in and around the city of Jerusalem.

“It had come to pass that our city Jerusalem had arrived at a higher degree of felicity than any other city under the Roman government, and yet at last fell into the sorest of calamities again. Accordingly it appears to me that the misfortunes of all men from the beginning of the world, if they be compared to those of the Jews, are not so considerable as they were.”

Josephus, in describing it, uses almost the very words of our Saviour. All the calamities, says he, which had befallen any nation from the beginning of the world, were but small in comparison with those of the Jews. Jewish Wars, book i., preface, 4.
He has given the following account of one part of the massacre when the city was taken: “And now rushing into the city, they slew whomsoever they found, without distinction, and burnt the houses and all the people who had fled into them. And when they entered for the sake of plunder, they found whole families of dead persons, and houses full of carcasses destroyed by famine; then they came out with their hands empty.

And though they thus pitied the dead, they had not the same emotion for the living, but killed all they met, whereby they filled the lanes with dead bodies. The whole city ran with blood, insomuch that many things which were burning were extinguished by the blood.” Jewish Wars, book vi. chap. 8, 5; chap. 9, 2, 3.

He adds, that in the siege of Jerusalem, not fewer than eleven hundred thousand perished (Jewish Wars, book vi., chap. 9, 3)–a number almost as great as are in the whole city of London. In the adjacent provinces no fewer than two hundred and fifty thousand are reckoned to have been slain; making in all whose deaths were ascertained, the almost incredible number of one million three hundred and fifty thousand, who were put to death. These were not indeed all slain with the sword.

Many were crucified. “Many hundreds,” says he, (Jewish Wars, book vi. Chap. xi Chap. xi. 1) “were first whipped, then tormented with various kinds of tortures, and finally crucified: the Roman soldiers nailing them (out of the wrath and hatred they bore to the Jews) one after one way, and another after another, to crosses, by way of jest, until at length the multitude became so great that room was wanting for crosses, and crosses for the bodies.”

So terribly was their imprecation fulfilled–“His blood be on us, and on our children,” Matthew 27:25. If it be asked how it was possible for so many people to be slain in a single city, it is answered, that the siege of Jerusalem commenced during the time of the Passover, it is estimated that more than three millions were usually assembled. See Josephus, Jewish Wars, book vi., chap. ix., 3, 4.
Click here for a detailed study that explains the fulfillment of the time of Great Tribulation in more detail.
Luke added that the Jews would be killed by the sword, and be led away captive; which Jewish historian Josephus documented; as the Roman army killed hundreds of thousands by the sword, and took 97,000 captive, to be sold as slaved in foreign nations.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Luke 21:24