Paul’s very clear warning about today’s #1 disastrous doctrine

Zachary

How did you get saved?

Stranger

Zachary said:

[SIZE=medium]“[/SIZE]Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),
[SIZE=medium]for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Don’t even associate with such people.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, TLB)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium](*) the sins which are listed immediately before in Ephesians 5:3-5.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Other similar warnings are in 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Col 3:5, Rev 21:8)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]“Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Don’t participate in the things these people do.[/SIZE]” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NLT)

[SIZE=medium] “[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things(*)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Therefore do not be partakers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NKJV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]“Let no one delude and deceive you with empty excuses and groundless[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]arguments [for these sins(*)], for through these things(*)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the wrath of God comes upon the sons of rebellion and disobedience.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So do not associate or be sharers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, AMP)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Okay, so the question must be: In what form will the wrath of God come upon[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]these believers who insist on being habitually-disobedient sinners[/SIZE]?

[SIZE=medium]“Easy-grace” & “Easy-believism” proponents have told me the NT warnings are about rewards![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And each time, I’ve had a difficult time to stop laughing and getting up off the floor.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]We need to consider WHY so many of our churches are NOT preaching against this![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]We have several possible reasons for our North American churches preaching [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the false doctrine of easy-believism and easy-grace without accountability[/SIZE],
[SIZE=medium]which has deceived many believers into a false sense of security …[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]• Leadership was deceived by Satan into believing this false doctrine[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• Leadership desires the praise of people more than the praise of God[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• This doctrine is popular and non-threatening for those who love their sins[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• This doctrine will not cause believers to leave the church[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• This doctrine will ensure that the tithes keep rolling in[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So, pick your poison … and more than one may be chosen for your church.[/SIZE]

Click to expand...

Zachary,

Please define for me your understanding of easy-believism and easy-grace. When you don't provide a definition, I don't know what you are attacking.

Oz

“Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),
for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them.
Don’t even associate with such people.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, TLB)

(*) the sins which are listed immediately before in Ephesians 5:3-5.
Other similar warnings are in 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Col 3:5, Rev 21:8)

“Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),
for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.
Don’t participate in the things these people do.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NLT)

“Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things(*)
the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Therefore do not be partakers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NKJV)

“Let no one delude and deceive you with empty excuses and groundless
arguments [for these sins(*)], for through these things(*)
the wrath of God comes upon the sons of rebellion and disobedience.
So do not associate or be sharers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, AMP)

Okay, so the question must be: In what form will the wrath of God come upon
these believers who insist on being habitually-disobedient sinners?

“Easy-grace” & “Easy-believism” proponents have told me the NT warnings are about rewards!
And each time, I’ve had a difficult time to stop laughing and getting up off the floor.

We need to consider WHY so many of our churches are NOT preaching against this!

We have several possible reasons for our North American churches preaching
the false doctrine of easy-believism and easy-grace without accountability,
which has deceived many believers into a false sense of security …

• Leadership was deceived by Satan into believing this false doctrine
• Leadership desires the praise of people more than the praise of God
• This doctrine is popular and non-threatening for those who love their sins
• This doctrine will not cause believers to leave the church
• This doctrine will ensure that the tithes keep rolling in

So, pick your poison … and more than one may be chosen for your church.

Click to expand...

I don't know what form the wrath will take, but it will definitely not be in the form of a bronze medal instead of silver or gold. It will not be third class accommodations in heaven rather than first class with Escoffier service.
The leadership doesn't seem to have a problem with their accounting. They will come right out and point to their own sinful ways quite readily; they just know that since they can sin with impunity, this celebration of their faults and foibles is just the newest form of the praise of men. A preacher can confess to adultery before his congregation these days and get a standing ovation.

The Pharisees of Jesus' day are rolling over in their graves and slapping themselves silly wondering why they didn't think of this.

Zachary said:

[SIZE=medium]“Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Don’t even associate with such people.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, TLB)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium](*) the sins which are listed immediately before in Ephesians 5:3-5.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Other similar warnings are in 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Col 3:5, Rev 21:8)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]“Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins(*),[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Don’t participate in the things these people do.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NLT)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium] “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things(*)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Therefore do not be partakers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, NKJV)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]“Let no one delude and deceive you with empty excuses and groundless[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]arguments [for these sins(*)], for through these things(*)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the wrath of God comes upon the sons of rebellion and disobedience.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So do not associate or be sharers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7, AMP)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Okay, so the question must be: In what form will the wrath of God come upon[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]these believers who insist on being habitually-disobedient sinners?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]“Easy-grace” & “Easy-believism” proponents have told me the NT warnings are about rewards![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And each time, I’ve had a difficult time to stop laughing and getting up off the floor.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]We need to consider WHY so many of our churches are NOT preaching against this![/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]We have several possible reasons for our North American churches preaching [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the false doctrine of easy-believism and easy-grace without accountability,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]which has deceived many believers into a false sense of security …[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]• Leadership was deceived by Satan into believing this false doctrine[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• Leadership desires the praise of people more than the praise of God[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• This doctrine is popular and non-threatening for those who love their sins[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• This doctrine will not cause believers to leave the church[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]• This doctrine will ensure that the tithes keep rolling in[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So, pick your poison … and more than one may be chosen for your church.[/SIZE]

Click to expand...

***
You are building straw-men. I know of no child of God who " WANTS TO SIN" The child of God lives in a body that sins and can not willfully make that body sinless. If it could then they could be sinless under the law. But as Jesus clearly shows in the scriptures no man/women can make their body sinless. That is the reason Jesus had to atone (pay) for the sins of mankind by sheading His own blood to atone (pay) for them..

If, when you read Romans 7, you do not under stand that it explains the human condition then you are refusing to acknowledge your sins of the flesh.

Zachary said:

[SIZE=medium]The following were copied from the OP ...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]believers who insist on being habitually-disobedient sinners[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the false doctrine of easy-believism and easy-grace without accountability[/SIZE],
[SIZE=medium]which has deceived many believers into a false sense of security[/SIZE]

Click to expand...

Zachary,

You still have not defined 'easy-believism and easy-grace'. You have given me some of the characteristics that you think are associated with such, but I await a definition.

How would you respond to this definition and brief explanation?

Easy believism is a somewhat derogatory term used by opponents of the view that one needs only to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. From this they conclude that those who hold to sola fide (“faith alone”) teach that no corresponding need exists for a committed life of Christian discipleship as proof of salvation; however, that is not what sola fide means. True faith in Christ will always lead to a changed life. Another common usage of the term easy believism is in regards to those who believe they’re saved because they prayed a prayer—with no real conviction of sin and no real faith in Christ. Praying a prayer is easy—thus the term easy believism—but there is more to salvation than mouthing words.

Much of the debate over easy believism is unnecessary and is based on a misunderstanding of the Scriptures. The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. The essence of this doctrine is found in Ephesians 2:8–9 ('What is easy believism?', GotQuestions?)

Click to expand...

So, is your debate about easy-believism or about your concern for the kind of Gospel that is being proclaimed today that seems to exclude the bad news of sin that requires the Good News of Jesus' death and resurrection for salvation?

Oz

Zachary said:

I'm just concerned that you really need to understand what you are reading.

Click to expand...

Zachary,

That's an unhelpful comment as it tells me nothing about what you consider I'm not understanding from what I read. I'm not an idiot.

Oz

I haven't much to say about your topic as the airways are full of self righteous opinions about "Christians" that "live a life of sin." The most vocal that I've encountered in the last 20 years are usually the most sinful themselves. (The Lord has most certainly given the wicked over to the sword and the bible is the sword of the spirit.)
"Easy believism" isn't a doctrine and regardless of what some say from the pulpits, I have yet to meet a single preacher that has said to me anything like "Just believe that Jesus is God and you'll be okay."
What the scripture says quite plainly is this:
4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
5. For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them.''
6. But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, `Who will ascend into heaven?' '' (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7. or, " `Who will descend into the abyss?' '' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8. But what does it say? "The word is near you, even in your mouth and in your heart'' (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9. that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
11. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.''
12. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13. For "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'' Romans 10:4-13

I am by no means suggesting that sin is okay or that Christians are free to use their liberty to sin, but sinful patterns in life are innate to our "human" nature (fallen human nature) and the Apostle informs us that the "old man" is very much alive within us until we die, for we have the admonition to put him to death on a daily basis (which is no simple task.) The trouble with our understanding is that the word repentance is used in at least two different ways. Most would say that each willful sin requires repentance in the sense that we commit to not do such a sin again, but if doing such sin again repeatedly is evidence of a false faith then "besetting sin" as it is preached from the pulpit is proof of false faith and all those pastors who cling to Romans 8 are self deceived (according to scripture pastors are actually preaching to themselves first and when someone repeatedly goes back to the same text to prove a point it tells your that they have a problem that is unresolved in their own hearts.)
What scripture defines as "Biblical repentance" is more than just turning from a particular sin, but turning to God, to His way. Many religions preach repentance from sin, but that doesn't make them true religions.
Lets look at a short passage of scripture to illustrate my point:

25. My soul clings to the dust; Revive me according to Your word.
26. I have declared my ways, and You answered me; Teach me Your statutes.
27. Make me understand the way of Your precepts; So shall I meditate on Your wondrous works.
28. My soul melts from heaviness; Strengthen me according to Your word.
29. Remove from me the way of lying, And grant me Your law graciously.
30. I have chosen the way of truth; Your judgments I have laid before me.
31. I cling to Your testimonies; O Lord, do not put me to shame! Psalm 119:25-31

59. I thought about my ways, And turned my feet to Your testimonies.
60. I made haste, and did not delay To keep Your commandments. 119:59-60

There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14:12

These verses don't speak simply about turning from sins, but about turning from our own ways, and not to just any way, but to God's way, His word, His testimonies, His laws and commandments. Psalm 119 was written by an Old Testament saint, that is, one of the children of Israel under the law of Moses, but we have a law from One greater than Moses. A royal law, which is not the law of the Old Covenant, but a rule of love: Love does no harm to one's neighbor and consequently satisfies that aspect of the law.

36. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?''
37. Jesus said to him, " `You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38. "This is the first and great commandment.
39. "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40. "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.'' Mathew 22:36-40

While the "Royal law" is very short and to the point it is a much higher standard than the Old Testament law and tell me if you are able to, who keeps it?

Those who were under the "Old Covenant" of the law had to keep the law perfectly to avoid being "cursed" by God. That is, they were required to make an oath that they would keep the law, and failure in any part was breaking that oath and made the covenant-er guilty of breaking the entire law. Since no one but Christ was able to keep the Old testament law perfectly, how could anyone possibly keep the "Royal law," the higher standard set by Christ Himself, perfectly? The very notion is laughable, though I am sure that there are plenty of people out there who actually think that they do this day to day. No one is saved by keeping the law, and I mean any law. God alone is our savior and He saves people according to His election and His grace:
8. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9. not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
Of course these verses from Ephesians aren't referring to everyone, but only to those who have been made alive spiritually, born again, and have received Christ by faith and through the promise of His Spirit.
Why does Paul give us this, "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."?
The simple and obvious reason is that salvation is of God and not of us. God chooses who He will save. God gives those He chooses, opportunity to hear His word and faith to believe it. God gives His Spirit to those whom He has chosen to believe Him. God works in those who believe Him to sanctify them with His presence and through His word. There is some definable moment in time when we hear and receive our Lord, believing Him and committing our salvation entirely to Him, but the rest of life is a sanctifying process through which God shows us our sin and just how much He has forgiven in that definable moment of time when we first received Him. Our natural response to forgiveness is love, but only for those who have received Him and with Him the capacity to love as He loves.

Nice Post Michael,

the devil loves christians running arond being troubled by sin, because it is simply unbelief that keeps them there, and our flesh will do its thing till we die as you said. How can one say that the ybelieve Jesus died for all theer sins than act as if He didnt. Did He or did he not?? simple question. If He did than dont be troubled, He never said He woudl stop you sinning he said you would not be condmened for your sin, that is what grace is about.

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I forgot something in my previous post, and it has to do with a passage that I have rarely heard preached, the very last passage in the Bible and from the book of the Revelation. People assume that only those who enter into the Holy city, the New Jerusalem, are saved by God, but this isn't what the passage teaches. The chapter describes a river of pure water, the water of life, which flows from the throne of God. The same river is described by one of the prophets, but the point to be made is this; Those that are called abominable in God's eyes because of their practice are not allowed in the city, but the river passes out of the city and the water of life is offered freely to everyone. I've heard preachers and teachers refer to those outside the city gates as those condemned to hell, but I've never heard them say that those condemned to hell have free and unlimited access to the water of life. This doesn't exactly give us the kind of image that we find in Christ's story of the rich man and poor Lazarus (with the rich man ending in torments while Lazarus rested in Abraham's bosom.)
Is this neglect of the passage a reflection of a fundamental misunderstanding of God's judgment and God's nature? I certainly hope not.
Personally, my desire has never been specifically for eternal life. The very notion of living forever frightened me terribly when I was a child and actually made me feel sick in the pit of my stomach, but my desire was always to know God and to be with Him (and maybe to get to zoom around the universe a little taking in all the sights of creation.) Maybe hell is just not being able to satisfy that desire, but then the lake of fire would be something entirely different. If those who are kept outside the city are in hell, then the city must be in the midst of hell (and that sounds a bit ridiculous to me.) No, I think there remains some fundamental misunderstanding about hell and the "outer darkness" and that these two are not the same thing. One thing which is certain from scripture is that eternal life, through receiving that living water of Christ's spirit, is clearly offered to all, even to those who practice such things that are defiling to themselves and others and are not the inheritors of God's kingdom.

Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

I dont beleieve God would start something He could not finsh, If He did than He is not practising what He is preaching.

As for teh darkness, My firend Pia has being there, it is where Jesus rescued her and gave her back her life.

Zachary said:

I would respond thusly ... NONSENSE!

Just for starters ... James says faith without works is dead (useless).
There I go again, putting words in brackets.

The famous Ephesians 2:8-9 says nothing about your favorite word "alone"!
It doesn't even guarantee this grace will last until death, which it must do ... or NO eternal life.
More specifically, you MUST endure in the faith until the end of your life ... or NO eternal life.
Again, want to see the 10 NT passages that teach this?

Click to expand...

How did you get saved?

Stranger