Whatever happened to Mary of Jesus?

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rockytopva

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This is a letter from St. Ignatius of Antioch to St. John the Apostle. It's very interesting to hear about her reputation among the earliest Christians. He referred to her as Mary of Jesus and so starts this thread

Link: Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I

We are deeply grieved at thy delay in strengthening us by thy addresses and consolations. If thy absence be prolonged, it will disappoint many of us. Hasten then to come, for we believe that it is expedient. There are also many of our women here, who are desirous to see Mary of Jesus, and wish day by day to run off from us to you, that they may meet with her, and touch those breasts of hers which nourished the Lord Jesus, and may inquire of her respecting some rather secret matters. But Salome also, [the daughter of Anna,] whom thou lovest, who stayed with her five months at Jerusalem, and some other well-known persons, relate that she is full of all graces and all virtues, after the manner of a virgin, fruitful in virtue and grace. And, as they report, she is cheerful in persecutions and afflictions, free from murmuring in the midst of penury and want, grateful to those that injure her, and rejoices when exposed to troubles: she sympathizes with the wretched and the afflicted as sharing in their afflictions, and is not slow to come to their assistance. Moreover, she shines forth gloriously as contending in the fight of faith against the pernicious conflicts of vicious principles or conduct. She is the lady of our new religion and repentance, and the handmaid among the faithful of all works of piety. She is indeed devoted to the humble, and she humbles herself more devotedly than the devoted, and is wonderfully magnified by all, while at the same time she suffers detraction from the Scribes and Pharisees. Besides these points, many relate to us numerous other things regarding her. We do not, however, go so far as to believe all in every particular; nor do we mention such to thee. But, as we are informed by those who are worthy of credit, there is in Mary the mother of Jesus an angelic purity of nature allied with the nature of humanity. And such reports as these have greatly excited our emotions, and urge us eagerly to desire a sight of this (if it be lawful so to speak) heavenly prodigy and most sacred marvel. But do thou in haste comply with this our desire; and fare thou well. Amen.

Isn't it interesting that letter was written to the Apostle John? I wonder...

1. Was the letter written after the Book of Revelation?
2. Did John return to Ephesus to be with Mary?
3. Did the two die natural causes together? (The Apostle John was given care of Mary)
4. Some say Mary did not die at all, but was caught up to be with the Lord

We do not have much on the Apostle John and the Holy Mother Mary after the book of Revelation was written. It would be interesting to find out how they fared. John was rumored to have been buried at Ephesus, Mary however, has no tomb.

John's resting place was at Ephesus, but there is no house.
tomb-of-the-john-the-apostle-ephesus.jpg

Mary's house is at Ephesus, but there is no tomb.
her-house.jpg
 

rockytopva

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5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. - Deuteronomy 34

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. - Jude 1:9

Could it be that Mary passed as Moses, in that the Lord himself took her body and buried it in a sepulchre that no one knows of?
 

rockytopva

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Nero is called - by some sources - the first Emperor to persecute Christians. It was also under Nero that the war against the Jews was begun which eventually ended in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. This notoriously corrupted and imbalanced Nero eventually killed himself in A.D. 68 at age 31 because he had become so very very unpopular with his subjects that there were open calls to execute him. The Senate had him declared a public enemy, in fact.

Nero's death led to a short time of extreme political turmoil in the Roman Empire. First was the Year of the 4 Emperors. Roman General Vespasian was called back from the Holy Land wars against the Jews then to become Emperor and provide some stability. He ruled as Emperor until A.D. 79, when he died. Vespasian's son Titus ruled then as Emperor until his premature death in 82 A.D. just a couple of years later. After Titus, Vespasius' next oldest son, Domition, ruled as Emperor for an especially long tenure of 15 years, A.D. 81 to A.D. 96. He began a persecution against Christians throughout the Empire and killed many. In particular Domition sought relatives and close associates of Jesus to execute. For instance, he found relatives of Jude, Jesus' brother, and had them killed.

Domition also heard that John - a close and well loved disciple of Jesus - was in Ephesus working with a church there. A church writer named Tertullian makes mention of it in the 36th chapter of a book that he authored called "The Prescription of the Heretics".

According to early church traditions, Domition had John brought to him, and proposed to make a spectacle of him in the Collliseum as he executed John for his Christian related crimes. Other sources say this event occurred at what is called the Latin Gate, and not in the Colliseum. Those sources both agree, however, that the crowd that saw what happened demanded that John be released when it became obvious that he was unharmed.

Emperor Domition decided to have a vat of oil heated up to boiling and then Domitian had John plunged into this hot vat of oil in front of the Colliseum or Latin Gate crowd. When introduced into the boiling vat of oil John did not react as expected to the torturous heat. He was preaching as he was introduced to the oil and some sources say that as the crowd watched to see him begin screaming and struggling he instead went on preaching about Jesus. And as the seconds became more seconds and I suppose minutes it became clear that John was not in agony....or pain....or discomfort. He just preached.

And though there is not much surviving written detail about this event it is none the less claimed that, of those who were among the crowd of spectators in the Colliseum or the Latin Gate that day, many converted to Christianity because of what they saw.

A chapel named 'San Giovanni in Oleo' (said to be on the very spot where the pot of oil was set up) still stands in Rome to commemorate the event.

39%2B-%2BSan%2BGiovanni%2Ba%2BPorta%2BLatina%2B1.jpg
 

rockytopva

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So I would venture to say that the Apostle John...

1. Lived with Mary at Ephesus
2. Was exiled to Rome by Domition
3. Was delivered from a pot of hot oil while there
4. Was banished to Patmos and wrote Revealtion
5. Returned to Ephesus and lived his life out with Mary

---John has a tomb in Ephesus
---Mary does not
 

epostle1

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rockytopva said:
1. Was the letter written after the Book of Revelation?
St. Ignatius was born in Syria, around the year 50; died at Rome between 98 and 117. Revelation was written around 95 AD. It's possible Ignatius wrote before Revelation. Perhaps no one knows.

Tradition holds that St. John presided over the churches of Asia Minor from the Ephesus area, and that he died there of old age in approximately A.D. 100. Some scholars, however, claim that he died as a martyr much earlier.2. Did John return to Ephesus to be with Mary?

I don't think they died together
.3. Did the two die natural causes together? (The Apostle John was given care of Mary)
Whether Mary died a physical death or not is not a definitive teaching, so we are free to accept either view. The last few popes have said she died. The Assumption of Mary is a real sticky point for non-Catholics because it is not explicit in scripture, but it is based together with other Marian doctrines that are explicit. Separating Mary from Jesus is a common error in any discussion about Mary.
4. Some say Mary did not die at all, but was caught up to be with the Lord
And no one has ever found her body at a time when bodies of saints were highly respected, which is a Jewish tradition.
John's resting place was at Ephesus, but there is no house.
Mary's house is at Ephesus, but there is no tomb.
You can't bury someone who is not there.






5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. - Deuteronomy 34

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. - Jude 1:9

Could it be that Mary passed as Moses, in that the Lord himself took her body and buried it in a sepulchre that no one knows of?
It isn't likely that the Lord would resort to such deception, and if no one knows where she was buried, how do we know she was buried at all?

The dispensationists claim that every believer and their dog will get raptured, but Jesus can't bring His own mother to heaven???
 

rockytopva

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If....

The Epistle of 2 John was written in 90AD
The Elect Lady of this Epistle refers to Mary, the Mother of Christ

Then Mary would have more that likely lived to be between 100-120 years old. I imagine that she became a pretty popular figure in her latter years. I would be interested to know if Paul did not have an encounter with her as he wrote an epistle to the Ephesians.
 

epostle1

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rockytopva said:
If....

The Epistle of 2 John was written in 90AD
The Elect Lady of this Epistle refers to Mary, the Mother of Christ

Then Mary would have more that likely lived to be between 100-120 years old. I imagine that she became a pretty popular figure in her latter years. I would be interested to know if Paul did not have an encounter with her as he wrote an epistle to the Ephesians.
He wrote to the Ephesians, there is nothing in Scripture that says he went to Ephesus. He could have met Mary but it is not recorded. We don't know.

Driving home from work, you switch on the radio to see what’s happening, and you tune in to a local Protestant radio station just in time to hear a preacher speaking against various Catholic doctrines concerning Mary. The show is called Pastor Bob’s Bible Hour. Pastor Bob proclaims: “Jesus knew Catholics would come along and begin to worship His mother and call her perpetual virgin and absurd things like that. But the Bible says: ‘Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not His brethren James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all of His sisters with us?’ (Matt. 13:55-56a). And isn’t it sad, my brothers and sisters?”
Pastor Bob goes on to say: “Jesus dealt with these Mary worshipers in His day. In Luke 11:27-28, the Bible says, ‘A woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts that You sucked!” But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”’”

On a normal day you would probably just listen, take a few mental notes and drive on. But not this time. You’re feeling a little bit too saucy. You take the first exit you see and head for a phone. This is just one more reason why you need to buy that cell phone you’ve been talking about getting.

Step One:
You don’t have to wait long. Because you identified yourself as a Catholic to the station’s “call screener,” your call is put through and you’re on the air in no time. You begin by correcting Pastor Bob’s assertion that Catholics “worship Mary.” The Church honors Mary as the Mother of God and our mother (see Luke 1:43, Rev. 12:17, Eph. 6:1-3), but worshiping her would be a mortal sin according to the Catholic Church.

You then point out that Jesus wasn’t denying the fact that His Mother was blessed in Luke 11:27-28.
“If there’s one thing we agree on, it’s that Scripture doesn’t contradict itself,” you suggest carefully but in a friendly tone. You smile as you hear a hearty “amen on that!” boom over the phone line from Pastor Bob. “Well, Luke 1:48 says, ‘Henceforth all generations will call me blessed.’ Jesus would never contradict His own Word and say we are not to call His mother blessed.

“Far from saying Mary is not blessed and to be honored as such, Jesus was heaping a double blessing upon His Mother while teaching us a very important lesson. What’s most important about the life of the Mother of God was not her calling per se; rather, it was her cooperation with the grace of God she was given to fulfill her calling. She’s the ultimate example of one who ‘hears the word of God and keeps it.’
“In Luke 1:38, it was Mary who declared to the angel, ‘Let it be to me according to your word.’ And the result was the incarnation of our Lord. Because of Mary’s yes, we have the possibility of salvation if we will but follow her example and say yes to the calling of God in our lives.”
Pastor Bob then reminds you how the Catholic Church contradicts the Scriptures in claiming Mary is a perpetual virgin. “Scripture clearly says Jesus has brothers and sisters. How do you answer that?”

to be continued...
 

epostle1

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Galatians 1:18-19

“Notice two very important points,” you explain. “First, the ‘James’ St. Paul is talking about was a ‘brother of the Lord.’ Sound familiar? And second, he was an apostle. There are only two apostles named James. The first was the ‘son of Zebedee.’ He would not be the ‘James’ St. Paul was talking about because he was martyred very early according to Acts 12:1-2. And even if it were him, his father was named Zebedee, not Joseph. If he were the uterine brother of the Lord, his father would have been Joseph.

“There is only one James left who was an apostle according to Scripture. And according to Luke 6:15-16, his father’s name was Alphaeus, not Joseph. That would mean James the apostle and Jesus were not uterine brothers.
“We also know that Jude was the ‘brother’ of James according to Jude 1:1. So here we have two of the four ‘brothers’ of the Lord in Scripture as relatives of our Lord, but not his uterine brothers.

You go on to explain to Pastor Bob that it was common in Hebrew culture (as it is in ours) to call one another brothers when, in fact, you were either extended family members or brothers in the Faith. References to Abraham and Lot in Genesis 13:8 and 14:14 are classic examples of this practice. Though they were uncle and nephew respectively, they called one another “brother.” (Some Bible versions, like the Revised Standard, translate the Hebrew word for “brother” here as “kinsman,” which of course only confirms this point.) In the New Testament, Jesus told us to call one another “brothers” in Matthew 23:8 (see also Acts 9:17 and 1 Cor. 2:1). This doesn’t mean we all come from the same physical uterus!

You then continue: “If I may just toss in another thought, Pastor Bob. If you examine the scene at the foot of the cross, you discover something very interesting. We know from John 19:25 that there were at least three people named Mary present: Jesus’ mother; Mary, the wife of Clopas; and Mary Magdalene. There may have been more because Matthew 27:55 tells us many of the women who ministered to him (see Luke 8:1-2) were following as well. But John also said ‘Mary’s sister’ was present. Who was she?

“Isn’t it interesting that St. Matthew referred to one of the Marys at the foot of the cross as ‘the other Mary’ in both Matthew 27:61 and Matthew 28:1? Could it be that she was the sister of Mary that St. John mentioned in John 19:25? Why do I say that? Simple: If you had a famous cousin like Mary and you were named Mary as well, it wouldn’t be surprising if you were referred to as ‘the other Mary,’ even though there were four or five Marys present. Everyone would know who was being referred to.

“Notice as well that St. Matthew identified two of her sons as James and Joseph. Here we see number three in the list of the ‘brothers of the Lord.’
“The bottom line: We have here at least two, perhaps three, of the ‘brothers of the Lord’ shown to be relatives, but not uterine brothers of Jesus. It’s certainly not a stretch to say that the Simon among the list of four ‘brothers’ was also a relative of Jesus. This is the clear context.”
Pastor Bob responds: “I think you’re twisting the Scriptures to fit your dogmas. Matthew 1:24-25 tells us plainly that Mary and Joseph had normal, marital relations like everyone else.”
Step Three:
“Let’s take a look at Matthew 1:24-25, Pastor Bob, and see what it actually says:
“The text does not say Mary and Joseph ever had sexual relations. It merely says they didn’t have relations before Jesus was born. You’re adding your traditional interpretation to the text.”
That one gets Pastor Bob’s ire up a little, and he responds immediately: “The text clearly implies they had sexual relations after Jesus was born because it uses the word until.”
Step Four:
You respond: “This is an idiomatic expression we find all over Scripture. We use it in English as well. I may say to you, ‘Until we meet again, God bless you.’ That doesn’t mean after we meet again, God curse you! The opposite is not necessarily the case after the “until” is fulfilled. Here are some biblical examples.

“First, consider 2 Samuel 6:23: ‘And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death.’ Does this mean she had children after she died?
“Second, read 1 Timothy 4:13: ‘Till I come, attend to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching, to teaching.’ Does this mean St. Timothy should stop teaching after St. Paul comes?
“Third, look at 1 Corinthians 15:25: ‘For He [Christ] must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.’ Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? No! Luke 1:33 says, ‘He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.’”
Pastor Bob responds by pointing out that the text in Matthew 1:25 uses the Greek words heos hou for “until,” whereas the texts you alluded to use heos alone. “The words heos hou together indicate the opposite is true after the ‘until’ is fulfilled,” Pastor Bob declares.
Having heard that one before you quickly quote 2 Peter 1:19: “And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.”
“This text uses heos hou for ‘until,’” you say. “Now, I ask you, what is the prophetic word referring to in this text?” you ask rhetorically. “Prophecy doesn’t refer only to future events foretold. It simply means ‘the mind of God spoken forth.’ Does this text mean there will come a time when we won’t have to pay attention to the Word of God? Obviously not!”

Just as you finish this statement, Pastor Bob indicates he must take a commercial break, but he asks you to hold until after the commercial. You’re surprised he’s keeping you on the air so long.
After the break, Pastor Bob challenges you to give some positive reasons for believing in the perpetual virginity of Mary. “You’ve only manipulated the Bible,” he insists, “in trying to dispel the reasons I believe Mary was not a perpetual Virgin.”

to be continued...
 

Marymog

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rockytopva said:
This is a letter from St. Ignatius of Antioch to St. John the Apostle. It's very interesting to hear about her reputation among the earliest Christians. He referred to her as Mary of Jesus and so starts this thread

Link: Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I

We are deeply grieved at thy delay in strengthening us by thy addresses and consolations. If thy absence be prolonged, it will disappoint many of us. Hasten then to come, for we believe that it is expedient. There are also many of our women here, who are desirous to see Mary of Jesus, and wish day by day to run off from us to you, that they may meet with her, and touch those breasts of hers which nourished the Lord Jesus, and may inquire of her respecting some rather secret matters. But Salome also, [the daughter of Anna,] whom thou lovest, who stayed with her five months at Jerusalem, and some other well-known persons, relate that she is full of all graces and all virtues, after the manner of a virgin, fruitful in virtue and grace. And, as they report, she is cheerful in persecutions and afflictions, free from murmuring in the midst of penury and want, grateful to those that injure her, and rejoices when exposed to troubles: she sympathizes with the wretched and the afflicted as sharing in their afflictions, and is not slow to come to their assistance. Moreover, she shines forth gloriously as contending in the fight of faith against the pernicious conflicts of vicious principles or conduct. She is the lady of our new religion and repentance, and the handmaid among the faithful of all works of piety. She is indeed devoted to the humble, and she humbles herself more devotedly than the devoted, and is wonderfully magnified by all, while at the same time she suffers detraction from the Scribes and Pharisees. Besides these points, many relate to us numerous other things regarding her. We do not, however, go so far as to believe all in every particular; nor do we mention such to thee. But, as we are informed by those who are worthy of credit, there is in Mary the mother of Jesus an angelic purity of nature allied with the nature of humanity. And such reports as these have greatly excited our emotions, and urge us eagerly to desire a sight of this (if it be lawful so to speak) heavenly prodigy and most sacred marvel. But do thou in haste comply with this our desire; and fare thou well. Amen.

Isn't it interesting that letter was written to the Apostle John? I wonder...

1. Was the letter written after the Book of Revelation?
2. Did John return to Ephesus to be with Mary?
3. Did the two die natural causes together? (The Apostle John was given care of Mary)
4. Some say Mary did not die at all, but was caught up to be with the Lord

We do not have much on the Apostle John and the Holy Mother Mary after the book of Revelation was written. It would be interesting to find out how they fared. John was rumored to have been buried at Ephesus, Mary however, has no tomb.

John's resting place was at Ephesus, but there is no house.
tomb-of-the-john-the-apostle-ephesus.jpg

Mary's house is at Ephesus, but there is no tomb.
her-house.jpg
You have touched on a subject of mine that is near and dear to my heart. That is why I choose the name "Marymog".

Some of my fellow Protestants may have a problem with me saying this but when I have debated with them the possibility Mary's body went to heaven after her death, they can't refute it.

I believe it is VERY possible that, as you said, Mary was caught up to be with the Lord, with one slight disagreement.

She probably did die, but her body did go to heaven.

Scripture says it happened before (Elijah and Enoch) so why couldn't it happen with Mary, the Mother of God?

Also The graves opened, and many of God’s people who had died were raised from death. They came out of the graves. And after Jesus was raised from death, they went into the holy city, and many people saw them. -Matthew 27:51

I don't understand how ANYONE can deny the Assumption of Mary is not possible (though not supported by scripture) when scripture clearly says it happened to others who, in my opinion, were less worthy than her.....The MOTHER OF GOD.

My two cents worth.

Mary
 
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rockytopva

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Marymog said:
You have touched on a subject of mine that is near and dear to my heart. That is why I choose the name "Marymog".

Some of my fellow Protestants may have a problem with me saying this but when I have debated with them the possibility Mary's body went to heaven after her death, they can't refute it.

I believe it is VERY possible that, as you said, Mary was caught up to be with the Lord, with one slight disagreement.

She probably did die, but her body did go to heaven.

Scripture says it happened before (Elijah and Enoch) so why couldn't it happen with Mary, the Mother of God?

Also The graves opened, and many of God’s people who had died were raised from death. They came out of the graves. And after Jesus was raised from death, they went into the holy city, and many people saw them. -Matthew 27:51

I don't understand how ANYONE can deny the Assumption of Mary is not possible (though not supported by scripture) when scripture clearly says it happened to others who, in my opinion, were less worthy than her.....The MOTHER OF GOD.

My two cents worth.

Mary
Yes... You have got to believe that Christ's mother was dear to him. I would also say that she was quite a hit in her lifetime as many would embrace the new Christian faith.
 

rockytopva

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It is truly right to bless you, O Theotokos, as the ever-blessed and immaculate Mother of our God. More honorable than the cherubim, and by far more glorious than the seraphim, ever a virgin, you gave birth to God the Word; O true Theotokos, we magnify you! - The Axion Estin


Dormition%20of%20the%20BVM%2C%20french%20unknown%20master.jpg
 

epostle1

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post #8
.Pastor Bob: “You’ve only manipulated the Bible,” he insists, “in trying to dispel the reasons I believe Mary was not a perpetual Virgin.”
continued...


Step Five:
You respond: “If I could, I’d like to give you five quick reasons, though I could give you more.
“The first reason: According to many parallel texts in Scripture, Mary is depicted as the true Ark of the Covenant. One example is Luke 1:43. Notice Elizabeth’s exclamation when Mary enters her home shortly after she had conceived our Lord: ‘And why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’ This refers back to 2 Samuel 6:9, when the Old Testament type of Mary — the old Ark of the Covenant — was carried into the presence of King David. He said, ‘How can the ark of the Lord come to me?’ Notice the text then says, ‘And the ark of the Lord remained in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months’ (v. 11).
Luke 1:56 says, ‘And Mary remained with her about three months.’
“According to Exodus chapter 25, the Ark of the Covenant contained three sacred objects. All of these were types of our Lord.
One was the manna. According to John 6:31-33, Jesus is the true manna.
Another was the rod of Aaron, the high priest. According to Hebrews 3:1, Jesus is our true high priest.
The third is the Ten Commandments. In Hebrew they’re called the ten ‘words.’ Jesus is the ‘Word’ made flesh, according to John 1:14.
“According to the Old Testament, no one except the high priest could enter into the presence of the Ark (see Ex. chapters 28 and 29). If anyone else even looked inside or touched the Ark, they would die (see 1 Sam. 6:19 and 2 Sam. 6:7).
“If this was the case for the Old Testament type, which is no more than a shadow of the true New Testament fulfillment according to Hebrews 10:1, it would be unthinkable that a sinful man could intimately touch the true Ark of God!

“The second reason I’d give is this. In Ezekiel 44:1-2, the prophet was given a vision of the holiness of ‘the gate’ of the temple: ‘Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east; and it was shut. And he said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”’
“Mary is ‘the gate’ through which not just the presence of God has passed, but God in the flesh. How much more would the New Testament ‘gate’ remain shut forever!
My third reason is this: In Luke 1:34, when Mary was told by the angel Gabriel that she was chosen to be the mother of the Messiah, she asked the question, literally translated from the Greek, ‘How shall this be since I know not man?’ This question makes no sense unless Mary has a vow of virginity.”
Pastor Bob jumps in and says, “Once again you’re twisting the Scriptures. This says nothing of any vow of virginity. The fact is they were married. And married people have sexual relations!”
“Think about it, Pastor Bob,” you retort. “If you were a woman about to be married and someone said you were going to have a baby, that statement wouldn’t be much of a surprise. That’s the normal course of events — unless, of course, you had a vow of virginity; then it would sound strange.

Notice: Mary said, ‘How shall (Greek estai) this be?’ That’s in the future. Mary is surprised and wants to know how this will be accomplished. This indicates she’s not planning on the normal course of events for her future.
“As far as the sexual part goes, one doesn’t have to have sex for a marriage to be ratified. A marriage is ratified when the couple exchanges vows.
“Here’s my fourth reason: In John 19:26, Jesus gave his Mother to the care of St. John, even though by law the next eldest brother and his brothers and sisters would have the responsibility to care for her. It’s unthinkable to believe that Jesus would take His mother away from His family in disobedience to the law.”
Pastor Bob responds: “He did so because His brothers and sisters weren’t there. They had left him. John was faithful, and Jesus had to care for His mother.”
“Come on, Bob,” is your reply. “Jesus ‘knew all men’ (see John 2:25). If St. James were his uterine brother, as you say, Jesus would have known he would be faithful along with his brother Jude. The fact is, Jesus had no brothers and sisters, so He had the responsibility, on a human level, to take care of His mother. And He did.
“Finally, Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit in Scripture. When Mary asked the angel how she was going to conceive a child, the angel responded: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). Do you honestly think Joseph is going to cheat on the Holy Spirit? I think not!”
“What you just said makes no sense, because the Bible says Joseph took Mary as his wife,” Pastor Bob says, with a renewed sense of confidence. “Unfortunately, we’re almost out of time. We’ll take this topic up and respond to these remarks from our Catholic friend on our next broadcast.”
You put in a last word. “One last thought, if I may, Pastor. Don’t get hung up on St. Joseph’s being the earthly spouse of Mary. We know we only have one true teacher, and that’s Christ, according to Matthew 23:8 — yet we have many teachers (see 1 Cor. 4:14-15, Eph. 4:11) on this earth who teach us as members of His body. This isn’t a contradiction.
So it is with Mary and Joseph. The Holy Spirit is Mary’s spouse, but St. Joseph is her spouse and protector on this earth for at least two obvious reasons. First, as St. Matthew points out in his genealogy (see Mt. chapter 1), St. Joseph was of the line of David. Jesus had to be of the line of David in order to fulfill prophecy. He was to be the true ‘son of David’ and king of Israel (see 2 Sam. 7:14; Heb. 1:5, Rev. 19:16, 22:16). As the only Son, even though adopted, He would have been in line for the throne. Remember: The Herodian family had usurped the throne. The sons of David were the rightful heirs.
“Second, Jesus needed an earthly father and Mary needed a spouse, especially in a culture that didn’t take too kindly to sex outside of marriage. No doubt, Mary would otherwise have been in danger.”
Conclusion:
At this point, Pastor Bob says he has to say goodbye to the listening audience, but he promises to pick up on this topic again and spend some time refuting your arguments on the air. “Wow,” you think to yourself as you hang up the phone. “I’ve just made a new friend and discovered a new radio show to listen to. Now I’m going out to get that cell phone. I’m going to be using it a lot!”