Resurrection Day

Webers_Home said:

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A very popular theory alleges that Christ's crucified body was restored to life
sometime between sunset Saturday afternoon and sunrise Sunday morning.

However; according to the passages listed below; Christ's crucified body was
restored to life on the third day rather than during the third night, so it just
won't do to insist he recovered before sunrise Sunday morning.

Matt 17:22-23
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 24:46
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4

Seeing as how that's the case, then translations whose wording suggests
that the women arrived at the cemetery prior to sunrise have to be
understood to indicate their travel to the cemetery instead of their arrival.
For example Matt 28:1

"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the
week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher."

The Greek word translated "came" is horribly ambiguous. It can not only
mean came, but also went. Here's the same verse from another translation.

"After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene
and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."

Seeing as how the preponderance of evidence testifies that Jesus rose on the
third day rather than during the third night, then I must accept, in this case
at least, that "went" is the appropriate translation of the Greek word
erchomai.

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Unless you understand how the Jews reckoned a “day” – then you will never understand the fact that Jesus was in the tomb for “three days”.
ANY part of a day was reckoned a “day” in Jewish culture. We see OT examples of this such as when Esther asked the people to pray for “3 days and nights” before she was to go and see the King (Esth. 4:15-16). In the very next chapter, we see that she went to see the king ON the 3rd day (Esth. 5:1).

Jesus was laid in the Tom PRIOR to sundown on Friday (1 day).
He was in the tomb all say on Saturday (1 day).
Sunday begins at sundown on Saturday night (1 day).
Since Jesus rose on Sunday morning – it adds up to THREE days in the Jewish reckoning of time.

Case CLOSED.

Webers_Home said:

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Your explanation fails to account for all three of the nights that the Lord
predicted at Matt 12:40

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Apparently, you didn't read the post.

The Jews reckoned ANY PART of a day as an entire day. The Jewish day didn't begin with sunrise - but with SUNSET.
I even gave you the OT example of when Esther asked the people to pray and fast for three DAY and NIGHTS - and it turned out to be only PART of those three days and nights.

YOUR refusal to accept this is irrelevant . . .

Webers_Home said:

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According to Gen 1:4-5 and Gen 1:14-18, day is when the sun is up, and
night is when the sun is down.

According to Jesus Christ's statements, "day" was limited to twelve hours of
sunshine, not twenty-four hours of sunshine and darkness combined.

● John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A
man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

This world's days are of course illuminated by the sun as per Gen 1:14-18.

FYI: Jesus Christ's teachings trump Esther's. Therefore I highly recommend that
Christians fall in line with his instead of hers.

● John 8:31-32 . . If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples,
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

/

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"Jesus Christ's teachings trump Esther's."
This is the most asinine statement I have ever heard because it is ALL the Word of GOD. God doesn't write contradictory statements..

The OT was written down by JEWS. The Gospel of Matthew was written by a JEW.
Jews reckoned the day as beginning on Sunset of the previous day.

Jesus kept the Sabbath, which began on Friday at sundown.
Was Jesus an idiot?? Did He usurp the will of God??

In John 11:9, Jesus is talking about the DAYLIGHT - not the entire day.
The problem with literalists like YOU is that you simply don't understand context . . .

Webers_Home said:

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With a little creative finagling it's possible to produce three days with the
Good Friday model by counting all day Saturday as one of the three days
Christ predicted at John 2:19, and then counting Friday afternoon and
Sunday morning as two days; thus adding up to three.

Sensible people could almost buy into that kind of thinking were it not that
Christ also predicted he would be in the heart of the earth for three nights.
(Matt 12:40)

Now here's where some of Good Friday's proponents get really creative.
They claim that Hebrew idiom permits them to count the hours between
sundown Thursday afternoon till sunrise Friday morning as one of the nights
seeing as how the Jews' 24-hour calendar day runs from sundown to
sundown.

However, in accordance with the standard Good Friday model; Christ wasn't
actually in the heart of the earth between the hours of sundown Thursday
evening till sunrise Friday morning; so we can't count those hours of
darkness as one of the nights seeing as how he didn't actually expire till
Friday afternoon.

Others have attempted to count the blackout that occurred when Jesus was
on the cross as one of the nights. But again, he wasn't dead during those
hours, rather he was quite alive all through it; so those hours of darkness
can't be counted as one of the three nights Jesus was in the heart of the
earth.

You know, it's bad enough that Christians the world over have to endure
cruel mockery because of the standard Good Friday model; but when
semantic fantasies such as the two described above are thrown in the mix,
then the world's sensible people are forced to conclude that Christians are
demented religious fanatics who have quite taken leave of their senses and
totally gone over to the dark side.

/

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You are writing your own bible.

All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on a Friday (Matt. 27:62, Mark 15:42; Luke23:54; John 19:42), just before a Sabbath, which was just before the first day of the week (Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1).
We know that it was a Friday because it is referred to as "the day of preparation"--that is, the day on which Jews made the preparations they needed for the Sabbath, since they could not do any work on that day. Thus thus cooked food in advance and made other necessary preparations.

The Jewish Encyclopedia states:
Friday, as the forerunner of Shabbat, is called "'Ereb Shabbat" (The Eve of Sabbath). The term "'ereb" admits of two meanings: "evening" and "admixture" (Ex. xii. 38); and "'Ereb Shabbat" accordingly denotes the day on the evening of which Sabbath begins, or the day on which food is prepared for both the current and the following days, which latter is Sabbath.
The idea of preparation is expressed by the Greek name paraskeué, given by Josephus ("Ant." xvi. 6, § 2) to that day (compare Mark xv. 42; Luke xxiii. 54; Matt. xxvii. 62; John xix. 42). In Yer. Pesaḥim iv. 1 the day is called "Yoma da-'Arubta" (Day of Preparation) [Jewish Encyclopedia, s.v., "Calendar"].
That eliminates six of the days of the week, but there were still quite a few Fridays between A.D. 29 and 36.
Can we figure out which one?
The gospels also agree that Jesus was crucified in conjunction with the annual feast of Passover (Matthew 26:2, Mark 14:1, Luke 22:1, John 18:39).
Here we encounter a momentary complication, because Matthew, Mark, and Luke describe the Last Supper on Holy Thursday as a Passover meal (Matthew 26:19, Mark 14:14, Luke 22:15). That would suggest that Good Friday was the day after Passover.
However, when describing the morning of Good Friday, John indicates that the Jewish authorities had not yet eaten the Passover meal:
Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the Praetorium [i.e., Pilate's palace]. It was early. They themselves did not enter the Praetorium, so that they might not be defiled, but might eat the passover. So Pilate went out to them [John 18:28-29a].
That suggests that the Passover would have begun on sundown Friday.

There are a number of ways of resolving this. For example, some have suggested that Jesus and his disciples used a different calendar than the Jewish authorities, and we know that there were different calendars in use in first century Judaism.
It's also possible that Jesus just advanced the date of the Passover celebration for him and his disciples. I mean, they were already convinced he was the Messiah and the Son of God. If he says, "We're celebrating Passover today," and it's a day earlier than most people, they'd just go with that. (Note that he made other modifications to the ceremony, such as instituting the Eucharist in the midst of it.)
And there are other solutions.
However, regardless of what Jesus' movement did, we can look to John's statement about the Jesus' captors as an indication of what the Jewish authorities or the mainstream Jewish practice was: They were celebrating a Passover beginning on what we would call Friday evening.
That lets us narrow down the range of possible dates to just a few. Here is a complete list of the days between A.D. 29 and 36 on whose evenings Passover began:
Monday, April 18, A.D. 29
Friday, April 7, A.D. 30
Tuesday, March 27, A.D. 31
Monday, April 14, A.D. 32
Friday, April 3, A.D. 33
Wednesday, March 24, A.D. 34
Tuesday, April 12, A.D. 35
Saturday, March 31, A.D. 36
As you can see, we have just two candidates left: Jesus was either crucified on April 7 of A.D. 30 or April 3 of A.D. 33.
Which was it?

The traditional date is that of A.D. 33. You will find quite a number of people today advocating the A.D. 30 date.
Do the gospels let us decide between the two?
The Gospel of John records three different Passovers during the ministry of Jesus:
Passover #1: This is recorded in John 2:13, near the beginning of Jesus' ministry.
Passover #2: This is recorded in John 6:4, in the middle of Jesus' ministry.
Passover #3: This is recorded in John 11:55 (and frequently mentioned afterwards), at the end of Jesus' ministry.
That means that the ministry of Jesus had to span something over two years. A fuller treatment would reveal that it spanned about three and a half years, but even if we assume it began immediately before Passover #1, the addition of two more Passovers shows that it lasted more than two years at a bare minimum.
That means the A.D. 30 date is out.

There is not enough time between the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar--A.D. 29--and the next year's Passover to accomodate a ministry of at least two years.
The numbers don't add up.

As a result, the traditional date of Jesus' death--Friday, April 3, A.D. 33--must be regarded as the correct one.
Can we be even more precise?
Matthew, Mark, and Luke each record that Jesus died about "the ninth hour" (Matthew 27:45-50, Mark 15:34-37, Luke 23:44-46).
"The ninth hour" is what we, today, would refer to as 3:00 p.m.
This allows us to narrow down the time of Jesus' death to a very specific point in history: around 3:00 p.m on Friday, April 3, A.D. 33.
Of course, there are a lot of detailed arguments that I haven't taken space to deal with here. But this is the thrust of things.
This is when it happened.

Webers_Home said:

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Watch as I deliberately revise the Lord's statement.

"Are there not twelve hours of daylight in a day? If one walks during the
daylight hours of the day, he does not stumble"

Here's a similar revision:

"Are there not twelve hours of daylight? If one walks during daylight, he does not
stumble"

Those revisions reflect your mind's interpretation of what the Lord said instead of
the words he actually spoke; which are these:

“Are there not twelve hours in a day? If one walks during the day, he does
not stumble"

You see; your mind has been playing tricks; reading things into the Lord's
statement that aren't there; thus effectively preventing you from
distinguishing between day and night.

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And, as I said before - the problem with literalists like YOU is that you simply don't understand context.
Context will always be a hurdle for you until you educate yourself about the idioms of 1st century Jewish culture - AND the fact that Sola Scriptura is a man made invention.

Once you get over these two pitfalls of ignorance, your eyes will be opened.

kepha31 said:

This allows us to narrow down the time of Jesus' death to a very specific point in history: around 3:00 p.m on Friday, April 3, A.D. 33.
Of course, there are a lot of detailed arguments that I haven't taken space to deal with here. But this is the thrust of things.
This is when it happened.

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Regarding kepha's comments narrowing down the date of the crucifixion to April 3rd 33AD, there was interesting corroboration of this from a blog by someone calling himself 'Catholic Knight'.
Catholic Knight retired and this blog is no longer available on the web but I kept a copy. It's very long but here are a few extracts:

"The subject of Jesus' crucifixion, particularly the date, is a sore one for some Christians, especially those of the Protestant Fundamentalist persuasion. The precise year of his crucifixion has been debated by scholars for centuries. Within the last 100 years, some groups have even called into question the day of his crucifixion, with a few groups insisting on Wednesday being the day of the event. If we go by the 'Bible Alone' without ever taking outside sources into consideration, one can see how this confusion might come about. However, all the clues we need for this little mystery are laid out for us plain to see, in black and white, just waiting for us to do our homework. The evidence is plentiful, once we're ready to start looking into what non-Biblical sources say about the astronomical events surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Phlegon was a Greek historian who wrote an extensive chronology around AD 137:
In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., AD 33) there was ‘the greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that ‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e., noon] so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.’
Phlegon identifies the year and the exact time of day. In addition, he writes of an earthquake accompanying the darkness, which is specifically recorded in Matthew’s Gospel."

.........

"The three-hour "eclipse-like" event is a historical fact, and accounted for by non-biblical (even non-Christian) authors, including Pontius Pilate no less, who wrote in a report to Tiberius Caesar the following account...
Now when he was crucified darkness came over all the world; the sun was altogether hidden, and the sky appeared dark while it was yet day, so that the stars were seen, though still they had their luster obscured, wherefore, I suppose your excellency is not unaware that in all the world they lighted their lamps from the sixth hour until evening. And the moon, which was like blood, did not shine all night long, although it was at the full, and the stars and Orion made lamentation over the Jews because of the transgression committed by them.

.........
"The occurrence of a blood red moon is actually much more easy to explain. Pilate's account to the red moon also helps us confirm not only the year, but the actual day. NASA has already accounted for the only kind of eclipse that can happen in a full moon phase, which is a lunar eclipse, frequently known to give the moon a "blood red" appearance, particularly when they are seen only partially. NASA pinpoints this event to April 3rd, 33 AD. The following chart is their report, which can be viewed on NASA's actual website herehttp://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEhistory/LEplot/LE0033Apr03P.gif..." [SIZE=12pt](Unfortunately the link given is no longer available).[/SIZE]

BreadOfLife
re: "...Esther asked the people to pray for '3 days and nights' before she was to go and see the King (Esth. 4:15-16)."

Actually, the passage doesn't say that. It has Esther asking the people to fast and to "neither eat nor drink for three days, night or day".


And nothing in the Esther account precludes at least a portion of each one of 3 daytimes and at least a portion of each one of 3 night times.

rstrats said:

BreadOfLife
re: "...Esther asked the people to pray for '3 days and nights' before she was to go and see the King (Esth. 4:15-16)."

Actually, the passage doesn't say that. It has Esther asking the people to fast and to "neither eat nor drink for three days, night or day".


And nothing in the Esther account precludes at least a portion of each one of 3 daytimes and at least a portion of each one of 3 night times.

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NOW you're learnin'.

Using that SAME logic - the "3 days and nights" that Jesus was in the tomb can be accounted for by having been buried before sundown on Friday and rising on Sunday morning.
Friday - Before sundown and at sundown accounts for a day and night.
Saturday - After sundown on Friday and Saturday during the day accounts for another day and night.
Sunday - After sundown on Saturday and Sunday during the day accounts for THIRD day and night.

Using my handy-dandy calculator - that adds up to THREE days and nights.

Webers_Home said:

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Q: Well so what if the outside world is laughing at Good Friday just so long
as Catholics believe in it?

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Good Friday is also a cultural holiday, only the essential sector, primarily, has to work that day.

A: Irrational portrayals of Easter week contribute not just to the mockery of
Catholics, but of all Christians the world over; and worse: the losing of
people's souls in hell;


[/QUOTE]We get mocked for everything but Good Friday. Now you are bad mouthing Protestants. The only ones who share your objections are bizarre post-enlightenment cults. You attack Catholicism on 3 or 4 forums with misrepresentations, falsehoods and lies. It's a sick obsession. You never got the guidance you needed some 40 years ago and now your bitterness has crystallized. Only the Holy Spirit can heal your bigotry.